Earnings Labs

Century Aluminum Company (CENX)

Q3 2017 Earnings Call· Fri, Oct 27, 2017

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the Third Quarter 2017 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. I'll now turn the conference over to your host, Mr. Peter Trpkovski. Please go ahead, Sir.

Peter Trpkovski

Analyst

Thank you, Berry. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the conference call. I'm joined today by Mike Bless, Century's President and Chief Executive Officer; and Shelly Harrison, our Senior Vice President of Finance and Treasurer. After our prepared remarks, we will take your questions. As a reminder, today's presentation is available on our website www.centuryaluminum.com. We use our website as a means of disclosing material information about the company after complying with Regulation FD. Turning to Slide 2, please take a moment to review the cautionary statement shown here with respect to forward-looking statements and non-GAAP financial measures contained in today’s discussion. With that, I'll hand the call to Mike.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Thanks Pete. And thanks to all of you for joining us this afternoon. If you can just turn to Slide 4 please. I'll give you a quick update on a quarter. We are very pleased with the progress we made during the last several months. Importantly, our safety performance has been generally very good across the company. All plants have been stable and performing well. And the financial performance came in precisely as we predicted. We saw excellent operating leverage on the increasing revenue. Very good product mix, we believe this continues to validate the investments we've made in our value added our product strategy and very strong cash flow conversion if you had to chance to look at it. The industry environment remains volatile on multiple fronts. I suppose that's an understatement. Pete's going to give you some more detail on the macro situation in just a moment. But let me make a just couple points to put the rest of my comments into context. The fundamentals we believe remain reasonably positive. Demands holding up well on almost all regions. It's clearly the case in our markets in the US and in Europe. Identified inventories are down significantly across the world and even so called hidden stocks have been shipped away. When we talked you last, the metal price had been strengthening and obviously then it took leg up in August and September. It seems now to be holding at or above $2,100 in fact today nicely above. The significant new development as we talked to you last time of the alumina price. The index sky rocketed from around $300 where it has been stuck for some time; it's almost $500 a ton now. All that happens in just a couple of weeks time beginning on a couple of…

Peter Trpkovski

Analyst

Thanks Mike. If you can move on to Slide 5 please I'll take you through the current state of the whole new alumina market. The cash LME price averaged $2,011 per ton in Q3, which reflects the 5% increase over Q2. Shelly is going to provide the quarter-over-quarter impact on realized prices, the LME price on a two month lag basis was pretty flat quarter-over-quarter at around $1,900 per ton. In the last month, aluminum prices have broken to the $2,100. A level we haven't seen since late 2014 and as Mike said are currently sitting right around $2,175. In the third quarter, regional premiums averaged approximately $0.08 per pound in the U.S. and $141 per ton in Europe. However, premiums have picked up are currently approximately $0.0950 per pound in the US and $155 per ton in Europe. In the third quarter of 2017, global aluminum demand grew at a rate of almost 6% as compared to the year ago quarter. We saw 7% year-over-year demand growth from China, 4% growth in Europe, and 3% growth in North America. Global production growth was up 7% in Q3 versus the same period last year driven almost entirely by increases in production in China, which increased 13% year-over-year. As a result, for the first nine months of 2017, the global aluminum market recorded a modest surplus of approximately 50,000 tons, newly balanced market. As I discussed last quarter, since the US has taken specific action upon WTO trade case and launching the section 232 investigation earlier this year, we've begun to see some initial positive supply side responses from China. The first response announced shortly after the WTO case was filed in January, as the winter heating season curtailment program managed by the Ministry of Environmental Protection. Under this program, aluminum…

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Thanks Pete. Pardon me if we could turn to Slide 6 please. The couple of details on the operations. Some of these I've already gone through so I go through it reasonably quickly. As I said earlier, we had generally a few very good months of safety specifically in the US plant and we are especially proud of the performance over the summer there. As you know, all of our plants are in parts of the country they get very, very hot during the summer. Hot and humid I should add. And we had zero recordable incidents over the summer month due to heat stress which really is admirable result and we are very proud of the folks who produced that result in our US plants. Production as I said was generally good. That's smallest figure that you see at Hawesville was produced by a small number of cells during the middle of the quarter that weren't operating. This was due to some crane issue that we had in the middle of the quarter and crane damage caused the repair of failed cells to get bugged down for a few weeks. That problem is now solidly behind us. Production metric as I said were quite good across all the plants, I have not really have anything to add there. Let me just give you a little detail on what went on in conversion cost. So you see that increasing in Hawesville there about half of that is raw materials principally coke and pitch and the other half beginning investment so which I referred and beginning to prepare the plan for restart one and more potline. At Sebree that entire increase that you see there is raw materials. And in Mount Holly that improvement there about a third of that improvement is the early benefit of our recent SAP conversion from the old business system at Mount Holly and the remainder is really spread over a variety of items. And with that I'll turn it over Shelly.

Shelly Harrison

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Thanks Mike. Let's turn to Slide 7. I can walk you through a few high level points on third quarter results. On a consolidated basis, global sales were up 3% quarter-over-quarter reflecting an increase in shipments and increased value added product sale. Higher shipments in Q3 primarily relate to our reversal of the timing impact we discussed last quarter. On a lag basis the LME and regional premium were fairly flat with what we saw in Q2. But our realized price per ton was up about 2% reflecting the increase from value added products. Looking at operating results, adjusted EBITDA was $48 million this quarter, and we had adjusted net income of $0.15 per share. Adjusting items this quarter primarily related to the mark-to-market of our remaining forward sales contracts. And one time non cash gain related to the settlement with Ravenswood retiree. Okay, let me take a moment here to give you some background on this gain. Accounting rules required that the original accrual for the retiree settlement we booked on undiscounted basis because the agreement has not yet been fully approved by the court. In Q3, the agreement was officially approved at which point accounting rules required their liability be adjusted to reflect the discounted amount. This resulted in reduction in the liability and $5.5 million non cash gain. During Q3, we had a $5 million realized loss related to our LME hedges that settled during the quarter. As we discussed on our last call, we don't adjust EPS, the realized losses on our hedges. So our bottom line both reported and adjusted reflects the loss incurred on hedges that settled in Q3. In Q4, we will settle the loss of the hedges. You will no longer see these losses in 2018. Turning to liquidity, cash increased by…

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Thanks Shelly. Greg, if you can go ahead and kick up the Q&A please.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] And our first question comes from the line of Jorge Beristain with Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Jorge Beristain

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Hey, guys. I just wanted to clarify again a little bit that commentary on the alumina. So basically because of the lag effect you are kind of locked already for upcoming 4Q results. I just wanted to understand though based on where we are seeing market rates of alumina if you kind of talk about when will start to see the impact possibly into 1Q results and maybe why you are penciling in for 1Q?

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Yes. Thanks, Jorge. You are absolutely right. So we are locked I think we have enough information based on the historical pricing and the pricing mechanism that you just cited. And as we said the way -- it's a little bit different every quarter, I'll call it as an inventory effect but in generally lengthens it out to something close to three months, two and half to three months where it generally lengthens and out so and Shelly said we can with reasonable accuracy predict Q4. Q1 is a crap at this point in time depending where the index heads here. If you were to stay at the current rate, it would have material significant effect. Shelly, if you want to go ahead.

Shelly Harrison

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Yes. So Q4 vendor line price will be that lag 340 but year-to-date Q4 actuals which will drive Q1, again as Mike said if stayed at this level we are on average of 460 roughly quarter-to-date. Obviously we are early in the quarter right now but significant impact.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

So 340 to 460, 120 bucks you can do the math we use, Jorge, we don't want to predict prediction for next quarter. We don't generally do something like that but you can just use the shipments tons of proxy for production this past quarter were 185,000 ton, 1.92 tons of ore per tons of metal and do the math, it could be significant if the market stays where it is.

Jorge Beristain

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Right. That's what I try to understand. Puts and takes that we should aware of in terms of maybe lagging the index a little bit or maybe it's having some inventories or if there will be anything else that would mitigate sort of the raw market price effect that we would get off of the index.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

No. The only -- not, not inside alumina itself. If I understand your question. The only mitigant of course is the same favorable lag that we'll continue to experience in the metal and the aluminum price itself. If the aluminum price stays where it is so the actual price that Shelly referenced that we can use to predict Q4 was average aluminum price --

Shelly Harrison

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Just under $2,100

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Just $2100 mean over just shy $2,200 today. So we'll have that same headwind to get this right that we have on alumina, all things equals, spot prices today for your question if I understood it would persist for the rest of the next quarter, next two months. We have a tailwind on the metal side.

Jorge Beristain

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Got it. And if I could just maybe ask about this Santee Cooper situation, it did not seem like the judge threw favorable comments, I think he was almost of the position that he would be fine with your plan to filing for chapter 11. Could you just kind of discuss if you were to go for to be allowed to exit their monopoly pricing and you said get market power, would that have a negative impact on consumers because it seems like the utility's position if they were to sort of expectedly low your rate they would have other customers have to pay more.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Not one, thank you, not one bit, again the math goes as follows just to be constructive a little bit or the structure goes as follows and without being precise on the math given that it's private contract of course. Today, we are paying them two revenue streams. One revenue stream is the transmission fee on the power that we are importing from outside of their system, that's three quarters of the power we are using today or 150 megawatts. And the second revenue stream is the demand charge i.e. capacity charge or demand charge or fixed charge on the power they are selling to us directly. We are assuming that bit -- not assuming we know that, they don't make -they neither make a profit or loss on the energy that itself that they sell us. We could pay the energy cost. So we are paying the demand charge. So two energy streams. What we are proposing and have been proposing for the past several years is that we like to import all of the power acquired through on the plant, so 400 megawatt. We would pay them that same per unit per megawatt hour transmission fee to import all the power and that fee compared to the two revenue streams in aggregate we are paying them today would be essentially equal. So rate payers that the power company and obviously the rate payers because the rate payers are the power company, it's obviously state agency would at par with where they are today.

Operator

Operator

And next we turn to line of Novid Rassouli with Cowen & Company. Please go ahead.

Novid Rassouli

Analyst

Thanks for taking my questions guys. Michael on the release you guys had mentioned the distorted relation you are seeing LME and key raw materials. I was wondering if you could just expand your thoughts here. And I guess give us a sense of whether you are expecting aluminum price to rise or raw materials to fall. I am just trying to get sense of, do you think LME moving up from here to kind of normalized that ratio is unreasonable. Any of your thoughts there would be helpful.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Thanks Novid. That's a tough one. I don't want to duck it but you really what we do know is that because of the structure of the industry, the cost structure of the industry I should say, that the current relationships can't persist. Because the industry as a whole or even the better parts of the cost curve can't bear this kind of relationships, where coke is right now and where alumina is right now. Those are the two principal drivers. Where the adjustments going to be it's usually -- it's usual in business center in life, it's probably it could be sum of both. It really I mean metal price it really does depend, really does depend, not to try it dump it down or over simplify it under development in China here. I mean everything else again at the risk over simplifying it is really just no ways but you've seen the price here start to react to perhaps a growing consensus with all the dangers of consensuses that maybe these types are for real and maybe this market deficits as Pete said the non China deficit is significant, it's a couple of million tons. And if China now is going to through these actions get to something close to a balance you could see -- we think you could see some more upside in metal price. That's not prediction; there were a lot of ifs in there. Clearly if -- and we think as certainly not feel safe but we really do believe what we said that the government, the administration is committed to this. It's clear this one of the important things that the administration talked about in the early days. And we take them at their word. They are committed to this. So I guess the way we look, one way to look at is, one way or another that situation i.e. excess subsidized illegal capacity all of the above has got to get worked out one way or another.

Novid Rassouli

Analyst

Got it. And then just switching gears over to China. So you spoke about alumina being plentiful. And so if we see the kind of bauxite mining and alumina refining restrictions that we've seen in China and there is actually longevity there, does that preclude alumina from moving back down to kind of the 350 level that you said is would be supported by the current LME to alumina ratio or maybe you could just give us your sense of that if these regulations are here to say.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

We think, yes, that's a great question. We really think that the alumina situation here, I talked about the timing but let me expand or spend a time little bit is really just due to the winter cut. So you see the winter cuts obviously and they have been well talked about coming on the smelting side which I supposed other than the strict trade press is alumina cuts. Obviously they cut refining capacity in anticipation of the smelter cut number one. And number two, it's outsized alumina versus aluminum because if you just look at the math and you put a dot in each map for a location of a refinery in China versus the smelter, you see a much greater concentration of the refineries, pardon me in the parts of the country i.e. the east and the northeast where there are pollution problem related to the winter heating degree day. So at this proportion alumina is coming off just given where those refineries reside. Ultimately, we believe that wherever the smelting capacity settles i.e. where the cuts settle, the refining capacity in China because that ward doesn't - that alumina didn't go anywhere else will adjust to feed that smelting capacity. It would just get a little bit of timing dislocation now.

Novid Rassouli

Analyst

And do I dare ask you how long you think this dislocation will take to complete? You kind of led me to the question there Michael.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

No, it's okay. That's a good question. Is it months and months and months and months, it could be, is it a year? No. It can't be because the situation can't persist. But could be months and months and months I mean at a similar dislocation for a different set of factors driven by different set of factors. As you recall happened last year and then we were quite confident as you may remember me saying that the situation had to work itself out of it, in fact the price fell precipitously almost as soon as the year turned. We are not predicting anything in terms of timing similar to here because of different set of facts and circumstances. But the relationship just can't hold to your point, it got to go one way or another.

Operator

Operator

And next we turn to line of David Gagliano with BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

David Gagliano

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Hi, thanks for taking my questions. I just wanted to drill down a little bit more on a couple of topic. I'll take alumina later. First on Hawesville on the restart commentary. Could you just remind us again what the -- first of all the annual production capacity of these potline is?

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

50,000 tons per line, so there is 100,000 David producing now 150,000 -- it's ratable, 50,000 tons.

David Gagliano

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Okay, thanks. And then on the cannibalization some of the cells, I know its early days, you mentioned start, restart cost higher than typical, what -- can you say what are the magnitude, what the restart cost would be?

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Yes. I mean we talked about this in the past. So depending upon which line we started and when we restarted it, the restart cost for each line before Sebree build, restart cost being, deferred maintenance and hiring and training all that is several, several million of dollars. And if you put the restart cost in, if you have to rebuild say 100 cells per line that's $10 million investment worth a year. Let say you are talking about two lines. You talked about, pardon me, about a couple tens of million of dollar and then you might increase that by again depending upon where we settle out without getting into the way the cells rebuild in the current technology versus the -- because it is more and more expensive material I guess is one easy way to say in the upgraded technology. You could be looking at 40-ish percent increase there. So you could -- if you are just thinking -- if your question David is aimed at capital requirements or cash requirements, you could be looking at -- if we were to restart to potlines simultaneously which is by no means, it's certainly not required and it's by no means an obvious conclusion. You could be talking about $40 million -$50 million investment.

David Gagliano

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Okay. I have fully idle line.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Correct. Now to remind you to those potlines are capable of producing high purity and the newest line 5 is not capable of producing high purity. So that's why as I would describing this earlier, I talked about one line or two. I would never say never that the plant would operate at all five lines again because that's when you get best leverage of your fixed cost, your best cost structure. But I think the way we are thinking about it now and that's what we would ask you to think about in the near future meaning let's make it a year even is one or two lines we started.

David Gagliano

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

So that was my other question. So you decided it extend out to 12 months sort of lead time.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Yes. I mean the way the timing work if that's what you are asking David is so we go over the -- we will take a next couple of months to improve these cells to put into this technology into service, so let the pot operate for a couple of months and then cut it out literally to cut the pot out, tap all the metal out and then do it an autopsy to look at inside of the pot to see how the new technology held up against the stress of the smelting process of course. And then assuming we are going in industry condition, they taper and go obviously we would let our investments let's you guy know. At the time we test fire starter pistol, you are probably looking at 6 to 8 months. I mean just ordering cattle blocks so those are the -- that's material that line the cells, that's probably the longest lead time item in the market right now, that's sort of 6 to 7 even maybe 8 months of lead time. We do have a little bit of inventory on hand but not much. We spend it out as you would expect. So I mean if you want me to take to the very end, you might be seeing production towards the end of 2018 and certainly going into full production in 2019. Full production or whatever however many problems we were to restart.

David Gagliano

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Okay, perfect, thank you for that. And then sorry last one on that. Will those be high purity lines you are looking at restarting or --

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Yes.

David Gagliano

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Okay, thanks. And then switching over to alumina, I don't want to beat the dead horse, I just given all the volatility, given I think a lot of your time in calibrate the model based on where we are now kind of that sort of math, one quarter lag API alumina price is roughly 295 bucks a ton, Shelly mentioned 340 number earlier, I am just wondering what alumina price actually flowed through the cost to good sold in the third quarter.

Shelly Harrison

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Right. Dave that would be consistent with your 295 based if you look back to the Q2 average price and that roughly what flow through our Q3

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

340 was for Q4

David Gagliano

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Got it, perfect, thank you.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Sure. Look, this is -- you are not beating dead anything, this is critical and I think it's probably it's complex and as you look at all the moving parts of how our cost structure works as it goes forward, it's important for us, to us that everybody have a good understanding of this. So please don't be shy.

David Gagliano

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

I am not shy, thank you. A little shy, thank you.

Operator

Operator

And next we turn to line of John Tumazos with John Tumazos Fairy Independent Research. Please go ahead.

John Tumazos

Analyst

Thank you. I don't mean to be too shy but I don't know a lot about river locks. How longer they take for the army core of engineers to fix? Would it be like a two week thing or two months thing?

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

30 years. And here is the answer, thank you John for that straight man, straight person question. That was excellent. So you can just go ahead and Google Ohio River locks 52 and 53, you will find hundreds of articles in the last couple of weeks. In fact, there was hate to say site anyone mania, there was a New York Times maybe even in front page but a prominent New York Time, yes, it's a front page article when this got really ugly a couple of weeks ago. And talking about as you would suspect the aging infrastructure of our company especially given that the administration is talked about our country. Thank you Shelly, especially given that the administration has talked about infrastructure. So reason for the flip answer 30 years is that, a, the army core of engineers had designed and proposed a replacement for these locks in 1988 and so that's how long it has been known that we have problem here. Over the last year, our operations people took, our COO took me through a recounting of sort of some of the minor mishaps over the last year. But they had some reasonable problems but nothing like have happened over the last month. We are literally for days and days and days at a time the locks were closed. Just to give you a sense at one particular bad time, got to remember here, I believe there were 130 tugs stuck behind each of those tugs is guiding six barges so think about how many vessel that is -- are literally queued up. It went back into 34-43 miles, I can't recall, 46, thank you Shelly, 46 miles behind this locks. Just Google and you can see where these locks are. So John that's perhaps more than you wanted to know. If that's the answer to your question. Oh pardon me. There is more salient answers to your question is now are almost completing the core is hopefully permanent fix which is - that's why I said which is slated for the fourth quarter at late next year, late 2018. The traffic is slowing again but that's why we got all these contingency plans in place just in case for the obvious reason.

John Tumazos

Analyst

And this could strain Hawesville and Sebree both.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Yes. They are both on -- they are both east of this problem.

Operator

Operator

And next we turn to line of [David Livshiz with Macquarie]. Please go ahead.

David Livshiz

Analyst

Two quick questions. First in terms of potential of restart. If we understand market conditions today three months from now, is that something that what makes you go ahead or not go ahead in terms of market conditions to go forward. It sounds like alumina is still 450 or 460 is that mean no go or if it's a 350 like we are okay like what makes you make that decision.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

350 definitely. I mean 350 in the current metal price that's a sensible if you just do the simple math relationship between those two commodities and its relationship we think is the right one in the medium to long term and it's a relationship at which our cash flow would be based are. Our EBITDA per ton which is one of the key metrics that we use here as you might suspect. And especially David the incremental marginal EBITDA per ton because you can't bring out those tons and really are you paying for some additional labor but mostly just additional cost power in Alumina and carbon, the materials that you are actually using in smelting the ore into metal and so absolutely. Now growth has been up to current conditions that would be a deep breath that would be a tough one. I wouldn't want to give you the definitive answer either because I don't know but I would be an obviously yes, David, it would not by any means.

David Livshiz

Analyst

Okay. And my -- would be there any thought of waiting to see how the winner cuts play out like for lay until the spring and sort of seeing how this all sort of plays out before you made any decision.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

I think effectively -- the answer is the fact of yes, I think effectively we will because the heating season is going to go on over the next six months and so by the time we finish 4 to 6 months, so by the time you finish our R&D project here I call it we will be into Jan and Feb and by that point in time we will kind of know where things -- if it's not settled where things seemed to be heading in China. We'll have more -- we essentially will have more conviction anyway. And hopefully the market is well one way or another. And so yes I think it all kind of come together we believer for us anyway as it relates to our question during the first quarter of 2018.

David Livshiz

Analyst

And then my final question is in terms of if [NOS] and all the others cost would stay where they are, how would that impact first quarter?

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

So cost -- calcium petroleum and coke I think is what you are specifically talking about because our conversion cost in all of our NOS that's one that are integrated into smelters in US and leasing in Netherlands and even our shares of it China, those don't change of course. The coke is at least 100 bucks a ton up today so that's $50 per ton metal at about 50% usage and alumina we just talked about we've given you -- we gave you the --

David Livshiz

Analyst

I am just wondering in terms of like being dollar basis from a coke --

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Yes, so it's up versus where we are today, where we realize in the third quarter probably, looking at my colleagues here, a 100 bucks, 80 bucks.

Shelly Harrison

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

Call 50 to 100

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

And then David as you probably know a typical smelter, Pete has given a thumbs up here, a typical smelter uses net, I should give the net number not but the net carbon number not the gross so he is correcting me here. So it's about 42% let's call it, tons of carb out NOS per ton of alumina. So you can use that math tons, so the price increase that we just cited that range, time that math, times our production in metal to get to the dollars in millions impact in the carbon prices that's what you asked.

Operator

Operator

And we have a follow up from the line of David Gagliano with BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

David Gagliano

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Okay. So just another sort of calibration type of question here. Lot of moving parts simple cost everything as usual, I mean I guess the basic question I am trying to figure out here is lag everything set aside, everything stays the way it is as today, OI I mean everything flows through six months from now and even in the current and everything exactly the same in terms of prices, would essentially be free cash flow positive or free cash flow negative.

Mike Bless

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Oh sure, positive.

David Gagliano

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Okay, that's a good answer, okay, that was a definitive answer, don't be shy, I like it, thank you.

Mike Bless

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

That was an easy one.

David Gagliano

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Okay, so current alumina where it is, aluminum where it is everything.

Mike Bless

Analyst · BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Yes, absolutely, like marking everything to spot David. Oh, yes, absolutely

Operator

Operator

And speakers we have no further questions in queue.

Mike Bless

Analyst · Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open

We would like to thank you all again for the time and look forward to talking to you again in a couple of months and obviously a follow up between now and then. Take care.