Earnings Labs

Wyndham Hotels & Resorts, Inc. (WH)

Q1 2020 Earnings Call· Tue, May 5, 2020

$85.35

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Welcome to the Wyndham Hotels & Resorts First Quarter 2020 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants have been placed in a listen-only mode and the floor will be opened for your questions following the presentation. [Operator Instructions]I would now like to turn the call over to Matt Capuzzi, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations.

Matt Capuzzi

Analyst

Thanks operator. Good morning and thank you for joining us. With me today are Geoff Ballotti, our CEO; and Michele Allen, our CFO. Before we get started, I want to remind you that our remarks today will contain forward-looking statements. These statements are subject to risk factors that may cause our actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied. These risk factors are discussed in detail in our most recent annual report on Form 10-K filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission and any subsequent reports filed with the SEC.We will also be referring to a number of non-GAAP measures. Corresponding GAAP measures and a reconciliation of non-GAAP measures to GAAP metrics are provided in our earnings release which is available on our Investor Relations website at investor.wyndhamhotels.com.In addition last evening, we posted an investor presentation containing supplemental information on our Investor Relations website. We may continue to provide supplemental information on our website in the future.With that I will turn the call over to Geoff.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst

Good morning and thanks everyone for joining us. As you'd expect, our comments today will be focused on our response to the pandemic and its impact on our business. It's clear that the near-term outlook for the economy is dependent on many factors including the duration of government stay-at-home restrictions around the world.That said, we'll make every effort to address the issues that we know are important to you. Our highest priority throughout the COVID-19 outbreak has remained the health and safety of our guests, owners, and team members to whom we are providing continuous support and assistance. And we hope that everyone listening on this call today is healthy and remain so during this difficult time.First, we want to reiterate that our franchise, leisure transient, fee-for-service business model is highly resilient during economic turmoil. Over 90% of our hotels here in the United States remain open and operating. And we have an unwavering confidence in our ability to weather this crisis.This confidence is reflected in our Board of Directors' decision which we announced yesterday to maintain a quarterly dividend now at $0.08 per share with the goal of raising the dividend in the upcoming quarters as visibility improves and travel demand continues to recover.We have made difficult and measured decisions to adjust our cost base to this new reality to preserve liquidity and to support our franchisees. Altogether, our actions since the start of this crisis have resulted in the identification of approximately $255 million in cash savings that will help mitigate revenue declines and provide us with the funds to continue to offer support to our franchisees. The actions affecting our team members were especially difficult decisions.To support them during this challenging time, we have provided benefits and partnered with several organizations to give displaced team members access…

Michele Allen

Analyst

Thanks, Geoff. Good morning, everyone. I'll begin my remarks today with a brief review of our first quarter results and provide more detail around recent RevPAR trends. I'll then provide some insights on the rest of the year where possible as well as capital allocation.Constant currency RevPAR declined 23% on a global basis in the first quarter or 17% on a comparable basis, which excludes closed hotels. Comparable RevPAR was down 16% in the U.S. and 20% internationally, led by China, not surprisingly, where RevPAR declined 61%.First quarter revenues decreased $58 million or 12% to $410 million including a $29 million decline in cost reimbursable revenues due to hotel closures as well as asset sales by CorePoint Lodging.Excluding cost reimbursements revenues decreased $29 million or 9% reflecting the RevPAR decline as well as a $4 million decline in license fees from Wyndham Destinations.Our adjusted EBITDA declined $4 million or 4% to $107 million in the first quarter reflecting the revenue decline, partially offset by $19 million of cost savings, primarily related to our COVID-19 medication plan. Adjusted EPS declined 4% to $0.50, reflecting lower adjusted EBITDA and a higher tax rate, partially offset by lower depreciation expense.Our first quarter results clearly do not reflect the full effect of the pandemic on travel demand, especially in the U.S., where we're showing preliminary RevPAR results for April down 66%. Occupancy was at its lowest point during the week of April 11, averaging 22% but has been showing slight improvement sequentially since then up to 29% last week.Nearly 5900 of our 6300 hotels in the U.S. remain open and operating and the economy and mid-scale segments where 75% of our portfolio is concentrated are showing relative strength with these brands outpacing all other chain scales, running occupancy now in the mid-30s for our…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] And our first question comes from Joe Greff with JPMorgan. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Joe Greff

Analyst

Hi, good morning everybody and thank you for the slide deck and hope you and your families are healthy and well. With respect to the Slide number 25, the April cash burn. I just had a few questions on that. With regard to the $32 million of franchise and management fees, I'm presuming that, that the cash number as it relates to franchise. So is there a deferred franchise number that this $32 million is net of?

Michele Allen

Analyst

Yes, hi Joe. Actually this is not net of any deferrals at this moment. We're still collecting cash. I think back in the great financial crisis of 2008, we saw about 1/4 of our franchisees needed additional assistance. So if you were to apply that same percentage you could see about $8 million a month in working capital drag.

Joe Greff

Analyst

And that is your expectation is that going forward through September 1 as you would see that drag?

Michele Allen

Analyst

Yes. It's hard to predict but certainly that's -- we're planning for that as the minimum amount.

Joe Greff

Analyst

Okay great. And then with respect to the $45 million expenses on the other side of slide number 25 is that inclusive of some of the cash charges of $18 million that you'll take in the 2Q? And then secondarily on that $45 million is that fully taken into account the $235 million of OpEx savings?

Michele Allen

Analyst

Yes and Yes.

Joe Greff

Analyst

Yes and Yes. Easy enough. Okay. And then with regard to your development pipeline I heard your comments loudly and clearly before. Of the 48% that's new construction how much of those have some -- have committed financing for that? I get the delayed comments certainly.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst

Thanks, Joe. So if you look at our pipeline, as you point out 40% is new construction. And of that 40% of the pipeline that's under construction, we would expect those to continue and to open within the next 12 to 24 months.

Joe Greff

Analyst

Okay. And then, what did you see with regard to conversion activity in April but was there much in the way of that? I kind of get the environment but just to get a sense of how conversions look early on in the pandemic?

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst

Yeah. I think to Michele's point, and it's back on slide 7 -- I'm sorry on slide -- yeah, slide 7. You saw what happened in the last downturn. I think we're already starting to see that. When you look at our opens in the first quarter of 2020, they were considerably skewed towards conversion. And that is certainly what we saw in April as well.

Joe Greff

Analyst

Great. And then Geoff, I think your comments at the beginning of the call you talked about -- I think it was not necessarily your franchisees but the industry about 95% of franchise owners have received PPP or some sort of idle loan with the 80% approved. Do you have hard and fast numbers per your franchisees? Do you think, it's on par...

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst

We think it's really -- it's tough to be pinpoint specific on that Joe. But the HLNA is doing a great job. They released last Friday their survey estimating and they were surveying -- were probably the biggest piece of that survey. The domestic industry and they're estimated that 95% of those franchisees have applied for either the PPP or the idle loan. And we think that we're probably somewhere in that ballpark.

Joe Greff

Analyst

Great. Thank you very much guys.

Operator

Operator

We'll take our next question from Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Shaun Kelley

Analyst · Bank of America. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi. Good morning, everyone. Hope everybody is safe and thank you for the additional disclosures. So, maybe just a follow-up on the franchise fee deferral point. Michele, I think if I caught that comment correct in the last question, roughly an $8 million expectation for April. But I think you said that, that would be consistent with behavior back in terms of what you saw in the relief needed in the global financial crisis.And so I guess the first question is, may I be right to think if we're looking at sort of an $8 million number over the next six months something in the $50 million ballpark could be a helpful guide for working capital needs for the business. So that would be kind of the first part of the question.And then second, is that behavior like -- is that behavior correct just given the magnitudes of the RevPAR declines we're seeing are so much greater than what we saw during the global financial crisis. Is 25% enough or that asks currently substantially a little higher than that, or just sort of what's the kind of tenor from the conversations you're having with franchisees right now?

Michele Allen

Analyst · Bank of America. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Thanks, Shaun. I think the way that you're thinking about it is the right way taking the $8 million per month somewhere between $50 million, potentially $75 million for the full year of 2020, because we do expect -- we don't expect all of our franchisees will need the assistance. But we do also expect that there will be some that need additional assistance some extended payment terms, and so that could push some of those fees out of 2020 and then into 2021.For the second part of your question as to whether or not the 25% the quarter that needed it in the last down cycle is the right anchor that we don't know. We are not asking our franchisees to request financial hardship. What we have told them is that we will defer the fees until September 1. And that is meant to provide a couple what we hope to be a couple of months of positive cash flow at the property level before they have to make payments to us.Now, we are still seeing cash collections come in every day. And it would -- that -- what we're seeing right now for the month of April, would be relatively in line with that 25%, maybe a little higher like maybe somewhere between maybe a-third. And then I would also say that it depends on RevPAR and how much the fee -- what the amount of fees are that we're billing.

Shaun Kelley

Analyst · Bank of America. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Right. Okay. I think that's helpful. And then, just to drill down a little further, I'm sorry to get lost in the weeds here, but I think this is pretty important, because you're the first major franchisee and managed franchise or a management company to report. So, in terms of what's actually being deferred, are these both royalty and sort of system and services fees that would be in that, or are of both those on the table, or is it only a portion of the overall fee structure --

Michele Allen

Analyst · Bank of America. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

No. It's 100% of the royalty and the system fees both.

Shaun Kelley

Analyst · Bank of America. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Okay, both. That's helpful. And all of that incorporate in the $8 million or the numbers that you're seeing thus far?

Michele Allen

Analyst · Bank of America. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

That's...

Shaun Kelley

Analyst · Bank of America. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Okay. I think that’s it for me. Again, I really appreciate all the extra help on disclosures.

Michele Allen

Analyst · Bank of America. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Thank you, Shaun.

Operator

Operator

We'll take our next question from Patrick Scholes with SunTrust. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Patrick Scholes

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi. Good morning, everyone.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Good morning, Patrick.

Patrick Scholes

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Wondering if you can provide a little color on your hotels in China, specifically, what percentage are open today? And what does that compare to at the trough likely in February? And then, additionally, of the customers that are coming back to your hotels in China, what are the characteristics? Is it primarily leisure outside of the city? What customers are coming back first? That's my first question. Thank you.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Thanks, Patrick. It is -- right now, right around 200 of our 1,600 hotels are still closed. And that's down from, at the peak, approximately 1,200 of our 1,600 hotels in China being closed. Occupancy has continued to tick up. We've been running occupancies in the 20s up, from the single digits and low-teens two weeks ago. So that's encouraging.In terms of the travelers, it's a lot like here, what you saw as business began to pick up, where people that needed to be traveling, they're traveling. Whether they -- it was government, whether it was emergency crews, but we are beginning to see leisure travel pick up in China.

Patrick Scholes

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Okay. Thank you. And then my last question concerns your pipeline and how we analysts should think about a growth rate for this year. It had been 2% to 4%. And what would you state, a ballpark, a realistic range today that your growth would be for you, for this year?

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Well, I think, it's absolutely possible to see positive net room growth this year, Patrick. As we pivot to more conversions, as we're able to do it in 2008 and 2009 and 2010, and to Joe's question earlier, we saw a big pickup in terms of our mix of opens in the first quarter domestically. 85% of our opens were conversion. And that's sort of, to Joe's question, where we picked it up.We have an ability to continue to add rooms from a conversion standpoint and look to do that. When you look out across the industry, in terms of the hotels that are closed right now and you look at Smith's numbers it is in the independent space that our teams will be focused on. And so, yes, absolutely possible and that's our hope longer term, absolutely, continue to maintain our 2% to 4% guidance with a look to move that up over time to 3% to 5%.

Patrick Scholes

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Okay. Very good. Thank you.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Thanks, Patrick.

Operator

Operator

We'll take our next question from Anthony Powell with Barclays. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Anthony Powell

Analyst · Barclays. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi. Hello. Good morning. Similar question in terms of the U.S. RevPAR trends, you mentioned that, you saw a trough in early April with improvement since. What kind of customers drove that incremental, I guess, demand over the past week or two in the U.S.? Do you see more discretionary travel happen here?

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · Barclays. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Yes. We're continuing to see a real wide mix and it just continues to expand. I mean, what we saw immediately, it was our hotels that many of them filled and have been running the occupancy in the economy in mid-scale in the sort of 30% range right now filled with emergency care case workers filled with armed force both Navy and Army business be it fleet relocations or family stays a lot of government from state and county buyouts.But what we're focused – most focused on right now or what we're – beginning to see pickup are – what our GSO team refers to as boots and beds those who are traveling still traveling who continue to have project-related lodging needs. It's the construction workers it's the transport workers it's utility infrastructure, Petro chemical. And look as long as they have place – orders remain in effect that will be the business that our global and national sales teams be it in China or be it here in the United States target. But as people begin to travel and we begin to see and believe that they will the first thing they want to do is get in their car and drive to visit family members and friends. We're not seeing a lot of that yet, but we have had a lot of pickup from the groups, I just mentioned.

Anthony Powell

Analyst · Barclays. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Got it. And you love yourself room to maybe increase the dividend to $0.16 a share quarterly this year if you see improvement in demand. What exactly are you looking for to make a decision? Do you need to reach a positive cash monthly, or what kind of exactly are you looking for to make that up?

Michele Allen

Analyst · Barclays. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi, Anthony, I would say, what we're looking for is some certainty in the outlook, right? So we're just looking for when will travel demand begin to recover. So we can put a pin in our outlook and in our liquidity analysis. And then, I don't see a reason why we wouldn't look to increase it to the maximum allowable amount under the credit agreement.

Anthony Powell

Analyst · Barclays. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Maybe one more Geoff, what you just said about leads and kind of the leisure travel. Can you just give a bit more color on what kind of leads you're seeing? And that's all for me. Thank you.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · Barclays. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Sure. From a leisure transient standpoint, we're seeing a business begin to – especially, the question a little earlier go in terms of what's happening overseas is travel restrictions are lifted and what we're seeing leisure travel begin to pick up and what we saw over the weekend with Beijing relaxing its quarantine requirements for arrivals and Ctrip reporting both here and train arrivals pick up. I think we'll begin to see that from a leisure standpoint, which is what we're looking to pivot to and ship to here in the United States as soon as travel restrictions are lifted. But again, what we're targeting right now here in the United States are those emergency management in health care, those hospitals and medical workers and those people that need to be traveling are out there traveling.

Anthony Powell

Analyst · Barclays. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Thank you.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · Barclays. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

We'll take our next question from David Katz with Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

David Katz

Analyst · Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi, good morning, everyone. Good to hear your voice. Hope everyone's well. I wanted to ask about conversion hotels versus new builds. And if you could talk about, the economic impact broadly speaking of conversion hotels entering your system, the degree to which those start to earn compared to a new build which presumably goes through the ramp-up phase. Is there any differential between the garden-variety conversion versus a new build and the rate at which they start to earn generate fees.

Michele Allen

Analyst · Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi, David.

David Katz

Analyst · Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi.

Michele Allen

Analyst · Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

I think that any time you open a new hotel, there's going to be a little bit of a ramp-up just in your paid search and getting your name out there and starting to build reviews and just awareness in general online and with some of those – some of the other groups that Geoff kind of mentioned, but mostly from the leisure side online. And for a conversion hotel you wouldn't – we wouldn't expect to have that. They're already well positioned in their markets. So we would expect that, the earnings for a conversion hotel would increase profitability that our brands are driving would start immediately for those hotels.

David Katz

Analyst · Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Right. Now, if I may follow that up you indicated that you're putting more resources right or ramping up the conversion engine. Does that involve adding inducements right? Presumably you're competing with other systems right? To capture new units, are you allocating any balance sheet or other financial resources to that may go up that we should contemplate?

Michele Allen

Analyst · Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

We have earmarked $30 million in our initial guidance to support development activities. We do think there will be incremental opportunities in this environment and we'll be selective about using our capital. But yes, we could see it potentially increasing beyond the $30 million.

David Katz

Analyst · Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Got it. And one last one if I may. In the past when we focused specifically on the La Quinta system, but I suppose it's relevant broadly speaking. Can you talk about your exposure to oil-related markets? And what you're seeing or expecting or contemplating so far?

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Specifically David to La Quinta correct?

David Katz

Analyst · Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Well, actually I was kind of trying to slip in two at once there. So, yes, La Quinta and yes, broadly speaking.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Good to hear your voice. The La Quinta oil market exposure is as we've talked before a little bit heavier than overall for us we are 18% of La Quinta units overall. And I'm talking the entire 1,000 La Quinta systems are located in oil and gas markets. And we have seen muted to no impact in those markets.Recall in the last call we talked about how Q1 would be really our last tough quarter and then things would begin to improve. What we're actually seeing right now David is those oil and gas markets for La Quinta operating slightly better 200 basis points better over the last six weeks than the rest of our entire system.And it's remarkable at 96% of that 18% that are located in the oil and gas markets are open. And that they're operating. Crews are in there doing maintenance, doing research, doing cleaning. And it's also a situation where often those crews would have to double up. They're now being told that it's one crew member to a room.Overall, our oil and gas exposure is similar over the last -- the month of April. And so far the last few days they've been performing no worse and a little bit better than the rest of our system. The oil and gas markets are 12% of our system and they're again 96% of our hotels in those markets are open.

David Katz

Analyst · Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Got it. Thank you very much and be safe everyone.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · Jefferies. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Thanks David.

Operator

Operator

We'll take our next question from Ian Zaffino with Oppenheimer. Please go ahead, your line is open.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst · Oppenheimer. Please go ahead, your line is open.

Hey, good morning, guys. This is Mark on for Ian. Thanks for taking our question. So, thanks for giving all the details around the additional disclosures. But I just wanted to dig a bit into the international side. So, can you guys just walk through sort of what type of occupancy levels are needed for breakeven in Europe and Asia? Is that similar to the U.S. assets or the FIG's footprint? And then the tack on has there been any talks of government and financial support internationally there as well? Thanks.

Michele Allen

Analyst · Oppenheimer. Please go ahead, your line is open.

You know what I'll take the first part of that question. I think Geoff will talk a little bit more about the governmental support or maybe black thereof. With respect to breakeven, we don't have -- I don't have in front of me the international regions. But what I can tell you is that globally we think we can breakeven at about 40% occupancy.It'll probably be a little bit higher in the international regions because there's not as much scale from an infrastructure perspective. So, my guess is probably around that 50% mark, but we'd have to have Matt go in and grab the numbers and send them over to you guys.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · Oppenheimer. Please go ahead, your line is open.

And I think Michele answered marked the second part of that question. There is nowhere near the amount of governmental assistance or support that we're seeing here in the United States really in any of the regions that we're operating.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst · Oppenheimer. Please go ahead, your line is open.

Okay. Great. Thank you. Thanks guys.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · Oppenheimer. Please go ahead, your line is open.

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

And we'll take our next question from Jared Shojaian with Wolfe Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Jared Shojaian

Analyst · Wolfe Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi. Good morning everyone. I hope you're all doing well. Michele, maybe a question for you. I guess just going back to the $100 million of 2021 savings. If I run the maths from the margin number you gave it, sounds like about half of that is EBITDA related, but correct me if I'm wrong on that. And then is the remainder savings for your franchisees? Is that the right way to think about it?And then as we think about the long-term, are these permanent savings beyond 2021, or do you think that eventually some of these costs are going to have to come back once you're operating back to a prior peak level?

Michele Allen

Analyst · Wolfe Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi, Jared. For the $255 million those are all our savings, and then we think that a $100 million of those are resetting the ongoing cost basis. So those would be savings into years beyond 2020. There are no franchisee savings in that number. Those would be calculated separately on behalf of the franchisees.What is sticking is about we have 440 positions that we're eliminating. So the salary and wages associated with those employees will be sticking into the future years as well as some facilities reductions and other discretionary spend items, such as vendor tool -- or vendor spend and certain other tools that we've -- that we're no longer going to be using in the business.

Jared Shojaian

Analyst · Wolfe Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Thank you. So just to clarify, I mean, are you saying that with these savings last year's $613 million EBITDA would have been $713 million. I mean, how do I think about that?

Michele Allen

Analyst · Wolfe Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Yes. That's the right way to think about it.

Jared Shojaian

Analyst · Wolfe Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Okay. And you feel pretty confident that 2022, 2023 once we're back to -- whenever it is when we get back to peak level that you're not going to have to bring on some of these costs. I mean, it just seems like that's such a big number when you're already running at about 70% margin. I guess any incremental color you can share on that?

Michele Allen

Analyst · Wolfe Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Yes. I would say, listen, there are always going to be other investments we're going to make in the business as we move forward, right? So what we -- the 440 positions that we eliminated right now are not volume related. And so we don't expect that those would come back. The facilities reductions, again, we -- those are based upon where we see our workforce and we don't expect that we would have to increase our facilities' footprint into the future.Would we choose to spend some incremental discretionary spend on new initiatives? Yes, so you -- potentially we would. So but I do think the vast majority of that $100 million would be sticking into the future.

Jared Shojaian

Analyst · Wolfe Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Okay, very helpful. Thank you. And then just for a follow-up maybe for Geoff. On slide 8 you showed that independents in the lower chain scale segment are 2.5 times higher than your room count. Do you have a sense as to what percentage of those independents would have better economics from being a part of a brand affiliation because inevitably I would think for many it might not make sense particularly at the very low end?And then can you just talk about why they haven't converted previously? And why they may now be more likely to convert?

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · Wolfe Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Sure. I think why now is they are not receiving the support that so many of their branded competitors are receiving. And I think the biggest savings for them, Jared, and we've talked about this before anywhere between 50% to 100% of their business is coming through an OTA at possibly a 25% commission rate.To be able to cut that in half and shut that -- or switch that 50% to 100% to cut it in half to 25% or a third is compelling reason enough in addition to all the other support that is provided by the brands in terms of the sourcing and all of what we mentioned in the script we could provide.And that was certainly, again, back to that slide the case back in 2008 and 2009. We opened 60% more rooms in 2008 and 40% more rooms in 2009 than we did in 2019 and the majority of that came from independents. And I think that is going to be the case coming out of this in 2021, 2022, 2023 where independents will be much more likely to consider.I also think there's a lot of -- in the economy space surety that goes along with being affiliated with a large branded company. And people as they begin to travel again are going to be looking for hotels that they believe are very focused on safety and on cleanliness. And I think those will be some of the decision makers that independents which might not have been willing to consider that before may consider at this time.

Jared Shojaian

Analyst · Wolfe Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst · Wolfe Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Thanks, Jared.

Operator

Operator

And we'll take our final question today from Michael Bellisario with Baird. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Michael Bellisario

Analyst

Good morning, everyone.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst

Good morning, Michael.

Michael Bellisario

Analyst

Can you just remind us what happens if an owner hand the keys back to the lender? What are you the franchise will do in that situation? Kind of what happens to the fee stream what happens to the brand?

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst

Yes, sure. First off, we just want to say that to-date we have seen zero hotels out there hand any keys back to the bank or to any receiver and we've seen zero terminations due to coronavirus. But what happens is generally the banks would prefer to continue with the 20-year relationship with the local entrepreneur who has a franchise agreement.And again, we believe that demand is still out there. And for 2020 and hopefully into 2021 we're not going to see a lot of hotels handing keys back to the bank. As Michele said the breakeven occupancy is 30% it drops a lot when you factor in PPE or idle loans or who knows in terms of what's still coming. The passage of the Main Street Lending act could be another big support. We believe our franchisees have ample liquidity and support. Their banks are looking to work with them and defer those interest payments be they three months be they six months. We've heard stories are being deferred till the end of the year. So generally the bank is looking to work hand in hand with the operator. They're not looking to manage and the franchise or franchisee.

Michele Allen

Analyst

And I can cover the technical part of that question Michael really quick. What typically what happen is the franchise agreement would be assigned to a receiver. The receiver would enter into a short-term agreement with us while they look to sell the asset. When the asset sells we would be the incumbent which puts us in a better position to win the long-term franchise agreement.

Michael Bellisario

Analyst

That's helpful. And then if you look back in 2008-2009. Can you provide any stats about the percentage of hotels that may be handed back to the lender last cycle just for perspective?

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst

Yes. It was very -- it was insignificant in 2008 it began to build in 2009. By 2010, I think we saw Michele, correct me if I'm wrong about 4,000 rooms come back and at the peak it was right around there.

Michele Allen

Analyst

Yes, it's less than 4% of the system was -- less than 4% of the system I think over three years to four years. But in total less than 4% of the system.

Michael Bellisario

Analyst

That’s helpful. Thank you.

Michele Allen

Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And there are no further questions on the line at this time. I'll turn the program back to Geoff Ballotti for any closing remarks.

Geoff Ballotti

Analyst

Well, thanks David and thanks everybody for dialing in. We all remain intent on making sure that we're taking the appropriate steps to minimize the impact of the crisis and sure we're all well-positioned in the year ahead. Michele, Matt and I look forward to talking to you in the weeks ahead and hopefully seeing you in person very soon.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. This does conclude today's Wyndham Hotels & Resorts first quarter 2020 earnings conference call. You may disconnect your lines at this time and have a wonderful day.