Earnings Labs

NCR Voyix Corporation (VYX)

Q1 2010 Earnings Call· Thu, Apr 22, 2010

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

(Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to host Mr. Gavin Bell. Mr. Bell, please begin.

Gavin Bell

Management

Good afternoon and thanks everyone for joining us for our first quarter 2010 earnings call. Bill Nuti, NCR's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer will lead our conference call this afternoon. Please note that we have posted a presentation on the investor page of our website www.ncr.com and Bill will be referring to that presentation as part of his prepared remarks this afternoon. After Bill's opening remarks, Bob Fishman, NCR' Chief Financial Officer will provide comments on NCR's total company financial results. Also with us today is John Bruno, executive Vice president of our Industry Solutions Group. John will participate in the Q&A following the prepared remarks. Our discussion today includes forecasts and other information that are considered forward-looking statements. While these statements reflect our current outlook, they are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to vary materially. These risk factors are described in NCR's periodic filings with the SEC and our annual report to stockholders. On today's call, we will also be discussing certain non-GAAP financial information such as free cash flow, and the results excluding the impact of pension and other items. Reconciliations to non-GAAP financial results to our reported and forecasted GAAP results, and other information concerning such measures are included in our earnings release and are also available on the investor page of our website. A replay of this conference call will be available later today on our website. For those listening to the replay of this call, please keep in mind that the information discussed is as of April 22, 2010, and NCR assumes no obligation to update or revise the information included in this conference call, whether as a result of new information or future results. With that, I will now turn the call over to Bill.

Bill Nuti

Management

Thank you, Gavin and good afternoon and thank you all for joining us. NCR is of to a good start in 2010 as summarized by slide number three in the accompanying presentation on our website. Our first quarter financial results were ahead of expectations and we are beginning to see signs of a slow but steady recovery in our core end markets. Our return to revenue growth, gross margin improvement, cost and expense reduction and significant NPOI, EPS and ex-pension growth were all positive indicators in the first quarter. This results are signals that we expect to be a return to growth company in 2010 and give us increased confidence in our outlook for full year revenue and operating earnings, which we are reaffirming today. Returning NCR to growth is of course vital to building shareholder value, but so is addressing our pension liability and we are pleased to share with you today our strategy for addressing this issue. This road map is a result of a comprehensive analysis of our capital allocation strategy. We have chosen a three year aggressive yet balanced approach that we believe should enhance shareholder value. by significantly reducing the pension overhang on NCR’s equity valuation, while preserving our strategic and financial flexibility. I will go through more detail on NCR’s pension situation and the specifics of our plan for addressing it after providing an overview of Q1 business results. However, I would like to say here that our goal is to substantially reduce the risk and volatility of our pension portfolio. We committed to our investors that we would come to you with a game plan and the one we will present in our view is a good plan that is reasonable yet aggressive, but achievable and meaningful. To summarize, our first quarter performance…

Bob Fishman

Management

Thanks, Bill. NCR's total revenue from continuing operations in the quarter was $1.03 billion, up 2% versus Q1 2009. This includes a five-point benefit from foreign currency translation. We reported a net loss attributable to NCR of $19 million, or $0.12 per diluted share. This compares to a net loss attributable to NCR of $15 million, or $0.09 per diluted share in Q1 2009. NCR results include special items in both periods. In Q1 2010, results include $5 million or $3 million after-tax in incremental cost directly related to our headquarters relocations. Additionally, pension expense was $56 million in Q1 2010 compared to $38 million in Q1 2009. Excluding these items non-GAAP diluted income per share was $0.15 per share in Q1 2010 versus income of $0.06 per diluted share in Q1, 2009. To analyze NCR's operational performance without the effect of special items and pension expense please see the supplemental financial schedule included in our earnings press release and on our website that reconciles our GAAP to non-GAAP result. Our Q1, 2010 gross margin was 21.5% compared to 20.3% in the prior year period demonstrating the benefits from the successful implementation of cost reduction initiatives. Operating expenses excluding pension expense and special items were $178 million or 17.3% of revenues, down 30 basis points from Q1 2009, as a direct result of our ongoing efforts to optimize our cost structure. Total company non-GAAP income from operations or NPOI was $43 million in the first quarter compared to $28 million in last years Q1. Income tax represented a benefit of a $1 million on a GAAP basis in the first quarter, similar to the benefit of $1 million in Q1, 2009. The income tax benefit in the first quarter of 2010 was due to an operating loss before income taxes…

Bill Nuti

Management

I want to take a moment to congratulate Bob on becoming NCR’s CFO. Bob has been a fantastic leader in our finance department for many years and he served to stints as interim CFO. We evaluated a number of incredibly qualified candidates for the job in this most recent search, but Bob is the one we just kept coming back to and many of you know him already and we look forward to making the introduction to those of you who yet to spend time with Bob in the very near future. To wrap up today's call, we are gaining confidence in our projections for 2010, given growing backlog and increased activity in our core end markets. We are also seeing tangible benefits from the various organizational steps we have taken to operate more efficiently and effectively. Our decisions to rethink our sourcing and manufacturing operations, align our key functional areas including engineering, design and services, and continue investing in our products, technologies and people will allow NCR to better capitalize on its growing business opportunities. We are securing continuous improvement productivity gains to ensure that we are getting the most out of every dollar of revenue we generate. We are also pleased to have determined our go-forward pension strategy, which I've shared with you today. We recognized that our pension issue creates a notable valuation overhang on our stock and are taking immediate steps to address the situation. All of the above point to an exciting outlook for NCR in 2010 and beyond. Thank you and I'd now like to open up the call to questions. Operator?

Operator

Operator

(Operator Instruction) Our first question today comes from Katie Huberty with Morgan Stanley.

Katie Huberty - Morgan Stanley

Analyst

Can you provide further details on the pension as it relates to the sensitivity analysis, is there any reason that pension expense wouldn’t become a tailwind to earnings growth next year, if the move in return rates and discount rates remain in positive territories as you go to the next couple of quarters?

Bob Fishman

Management

Now that’s a good question. Certainly that environment will help pension expense, the issue though with pension is that, the loss that was book back at the end of 2008 will really find its way in to the P&L over the next say seven years and so a big piece of the $250 million of pension expense that we have in 2010 is this unamortized loss, finding its way in to the P&L. So unfortunately from a P&L perspective, pension expense will remain high for the foreseeable future because of that unamortized loss. Again every year though that we can beat our assumptions that are built in to the pension expense will help offset that unamortized loss, but we do expect it to be high for the foreseeable future.

Katie Huberty - Morgan Stanley

Analyst

Then just a quick follow-up for Bill. You mentioned double-digit order growth, IBM reported double-digit growth in its retail POS business earlier this week. Is there any reason that we couldn’t see some double-digit revenue growth quarters, may be not in the very near-term but in the medium term?

Bill Nuti

Management

It is possible, Katie, it’s possible in the medium term, if the order book continues to be as strong as it was in Q1. I think relative to IBMs results they were coming off of an actually and even easier compare than NCR in terms of if you look at the trends of your business in retail. We were candidly, pleasantly surprised with retail in Q1. We were pleasantly surprised in two ways. One is we actually saw revenue growth in our retail business in Q1, but the order book was up in the high teens in terms of orders, but the mix got better and we are starting to see the mix of self checkout versus point-of-sale improved and for us given the margins on self checkouts that’s the most encouraging aspect of what I saw in Q1.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Gil Luria with Wedbush.

Gil Luria - Wedbush

Analyst · Wedbush.

Thank you for taking my question. Could you gives us a most specific update on the DVD business. How much revenue you generated in Q1? How many kiosk did you end the quarter with? I think I’m seeing a little bit of a subtle change in terms of the guidance for kiosk. It sounds like a couple of quarters ago you maybe you were talking about 10,000, by the end of the year and I think now up to 10,000. Could you give us a little bit of an update on that?

John Bruno

Analyst · Wedbush.

Sure, Gil. It’s John. We are not backing off the number if that’s what you read in to the comment. We don’t give out the numbers on a quarterly basis, but on average you can think about the businesses we guided and discussing about, the 20 or so million dollar range in the first quarter and came out of the first quarter with about half of the 10,000 completed in the installed basis, which is where we said we would be and that allows us to build the pipeline through the summer months and then ease off a bit as we get in to the peak season for the retailers, especially the grocers and convenient store chains, which we typically see a bit of a slowdown there on installed rate. So we're right on track on installs, on pipeline and on revenue.

Gil Luria - Wedbush

Analyst · Wedbush.

Then my second question, I also want to comment on helpful all this information about your pension situation is and it really helps us understand the kind of long-term planning that you have for that. I wanted to specifically to ask about slide eight where you layout your cash outlays and a couple of slides later you talk about some of the historical trends. So in terms of your international and executive plans, can you tell us how much of the increase from 83 to 110 to 125 is driven by more workforce, more obligations versus pre-funding and underfunding type issues that you are dealing with outside the US?

Bob Fishman

Management

The US, the international and executive plans, it’s really a mix of different situations. The majority of that cash funding requirements comes from Pay As You Go plans where we basically are paying the pension obligations in the current year. So that can move based on that. The reason it stays fairly steady from 2010 up to 2013 is because the underfunded position is obviously is not as large as the US. At yearend for example, at 12/31/09 you can see that the, your underfunded plan was roughly couple hundred million dollars. So that, those contributions really don’t vary too significantly in the future.

Gil Luria - Wedbush

Analyst · Wedbush.

So, just as a quick follow-up. So even if you’d had no underfunded status internationally by 2013, we should expect that cash need to be 125 going forward regardless?

Bob Fishman

Management

Yeah, I don’t if it could be as high as that. I would say it would certainly be in the, call it $75 million range, based on the Pay-As-You-Go plan.

Bill Nuti

Management

Then Gil, I think we'll have Gavin just get back to you with more specifics on that question as well.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Matt Summerville with KeyBanc.

Matt Summerville - KeyBanc

Analyst · KeyBanc.

Couple of questions, first, just on the pension stuff, I apologize the business in the slide and I missed it. but I would assume if you rebalance the fixed income you are going to have the lower your expected rate of return,. How does that impact the sensitivity analysis and is that kind of worked just way in to the slide show presentation?

Bob Fishman

Management

It really has, it’s reflected in the table on Page 12, where certainly if you have a lower mix of equities, we will bring down our expected returns based on that mix. So that that’s been baked in to less sensitivity analysis?

Matt Summerville - KeyBanc

Analyst · KeyBanc.

Then how much would that have to come down by Bob?

Bob Fishman

Management

How much? Certainly we have an assumption built in to 2010 at 7.5% return, so, based on the weighting it would come down as we change the mix.

Matt Summerville - KeyBanc

Analyst · KeyBanc.

So where do you think it sort of normalizes, is it 4%, 5%, 6%, 7%?

Bob Fishman

Management

I would say closer to something that matches the expectation for the discount rate. So for example if you are at 100% fixed income and you are assuming a discount rate of 5% and 3.25% that’s what our rate of return would be. If we are assuming the discount rate improves to 6.5% and that’s about what your rate of return would be as well.

John Bruno

Analyst · KeyBanc.

I tell you, look at the discount rate over the 10-year average being 6.3 Matt. That’s a good benchmark to use, I think as we think about that.

Matt Summerville - KeyBanc

Analyst · KeyBanc.

Perfect that’s what I was looking for it. I appreciate it. Just a follow-up on entertainment, I think Bill in your prepared remarks you mentioned that you are hopeful that business from a P&L standpoint reaches breakeven by yearend 2011, if I heard you correct. I guess I originally thought you were hopeful maybe on a run rate basis, you crossed that line a little sooner than that. Can you sort of reconcile that for me?

Bill Nuti

Management

Yes, what we said in the past Matt is that we hope by the end of this year on a run rate basis, we are looking at a breakeven business going in to 2011 and today, given what we know today that’s still currently our expectation. The business gets accretive significantly in 2012 both in terms of profit and cash flow with current assumptions, but the goal of course internally is to see if we can improve the current 2011 business model, but we are not in a position today to make that commitment.

Matt Summerville - KeyBanc

Analyst · KeyBanc.

Okay and then Bill from an order standpoint of 18% obviously a pretty good number, can you help remind us what kind of compares your business were up against and then maybe if you can provide a little more color across the regions, how that order trend evolved as the quarter progressed?

Bill Nuti

Management

No question we had an easier compare in Q1 2009 Matt on orders. So that's a good point. That being said orders themselves were up against [augmentation] for our internal plan and that was a positive indicator. It was fairly well balanced across industries, both financial services and retail were double-digits, financial services was in the low 20s, retail in the high-teens, up in terms of orders. The region that had best performance was EMEA, Europe, Middle East and Africa, up above over 30% order growth year-on-year and the other regions did fairly well, even Asia Pacific did well. So it was fairly well balanced across the board by geography and with EMEA being the star of the show.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Ajit Pai with Thomas Weisel Partners

Robert Walker - Thomas Weisel Partners

Analyst · Thomas Weisel Partners

Hi, this Robert Walker on for Ajit. Just given what your comments on sales cycle for upgrades reaching their conclusion in 2010 and what you said about seeing a modest pick-up in the mid-sized bank segment, orders above your internal plan. Why not raise your revenue outlook for 2010 to what you had and is there anything out there that’s gotten worse and keep you cautious?

Bill Nuti

Management

No, I think we are just being appropriately cautious in light of what we believe to be a slow and steady economic recovery. I think a double-dip is off the table, but given the state of the global economy today and what we've just gone through, we think it’s prudent right now until we see increased signs of improved volumes to stay at our current guidance. It's only early Q2, I think it’s too early in the year to make a call that things will improve. Although, as I said, you know some of the signs in Q1 were very positive, we’ll see at the end of Q2.

Robert Walker - Thomas Weisel Partners

Analyst · Thomas Weisel Partners

Okay fair enough and then just a quick follow-up, I guess, how would you say the DVD Kiosk business has been ramping up? How is the ramping going? Where are you in terms of where you thought you’d be?

Bill Nuti

Management

I’ll give you my perspective and John will jump in. It's like where we expected it to be. As John mentioned earlier, we have over 5000 Kiosks deployed. Revenue came in around where we expected in Q1, same on the profit line. We continue to execute to our internal plan in particular as it relates to the deployment of new solutions like rent by online, our new blockbusterexpress.com website, which I encourage all of you to go to and rent a movie, Avatar would be a good rental this evening. I would tell you that generally speaking for us, we remain very encouraged about what’s happening in the space and our potential participation in the space. On a longer-term basis feel very, very good about what this business can mean to the company? John.

John Bruno

Analyst · Thomas Weisel Partners

Yeah, I think the Bill had the major key points Robert, I’d add that. For us it's always about driving high quality site selections and making sure that we have the right titles available to our customers and the right mix of product offers. So, as Bill mentioned in his prepared remarks we have no shortage of site opportunities and so for us it’s ensuring that the sites have the right footfall, have the right visitation traffic and have the right returns to ensure that we continue to maintain that ramp because it’s a business that’s growing as I explained on the previous call it’s always diluted by new machines because it takes new machines some time to reach their full rental potential. So until a machine is actually fully up and running over a number of months, these things start to normalize out and so since we are in deployment mode pretty heavily, as going from talking to you guys a year ago and having zero and talking to you guys now and having nearly 5000 that’s a very good result, but we are always pulling down the ramp by net new machines. So to Bill’s point we track new and we track the age of every machine and it’s all tracking well to plan.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Paul Coster with JPMorgan.

Paul Coster - JPMorgan

Analyst · JPMorgan.

Thank you, Bill. First can you just talk a little bit about the competitive landscape in the financial services segment domestically, but also can you spend a few minutes on Brazil and what’s happening down there at the moment?

Bill Nuti

Management

I think relatively speaking the pricing environment has continued to moderate to some degree with the exception of course the emerging markets as I said, I think consistently now on many, many calls. I don’t think there has been any material changes quarter-on-quarter. Brazil is coming up to speed for us as I mentioned as well. We expect that to kick in for us later this year and become a very important part of the company’s business going in to 2011. Our plant is up and running. Our research and development center is up and running. We are winning some business. That’s all good news and working through what I would call the early days or kinks of building up our business in that market, but remain very encouraged by the dynamics of the Brazilian ATM space and what that offers us. By the way, inclusive of deposit automation that will be another country where you're going to see like the US an upgrade to deposit automation technologies starting in the year 2013. So I think we'll be very well prepared certainly for that opportunity and on our way there begin to take hopefully more share in that marketplace.

Paul Coster - JPMorgan

Analyst · JPMorgan.

My second question is, you seem to have escaped the 28-day rule as it relates to renting out DVDs that have just come for sale. Why is that relative to your nearest competitors in the entertainment kiosk segment?

John Bruno

Analyst · JPMorgan.

Paul, I will address that. It's John. It's not a question of escaping it or not. Really the issue here has been and I previously talked about, we are not purely a rental play. So by the virtue of the fact that we've designed these machines from day one with 2X the capacity, the robotics to handle finished goods products because we see a sell-through opportunity for the studios and so forth and the digital signage capabilities, digital upgrade capabilities. While rental is the initial offer and it’s certainly what's driving the revenue today. We have been and continue to work through our partner BLOCKBUSTER is, is that this naturally augments them through their [mall] and also their store footprint with our kiosk footprint and so we continue to work within a multi-channel automated retail window versus rental, so we look at these machines a little bit differently and we are in the different segment of the market in a way we developed it and that's why we have been negotiating differently and working differently in order to enable that. We will be this summer selling finished products through our machines, which is fantastic for all parties involved.

Paul Coster - JPMorgan

Analyst · JPMorgan.

So you competitor's machines do not reflect to support the sales of the sell-through process?

John Bruno

Analyst · JPMorgan.

That’s correct, they are optimized for a different segment of the market. We optimized our robotics in our machines differently.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Kartik Mehta with Northcoast Research.

Kartik Mehta - Northcoast Research

Analyst · Northcoast Research.

Bill, question on the pension side. Would NCR continue on it strides you to go to a 100% fixed regardless of where you are on the underfunded side, the returns are really good, lets say in 2010 and the portion comes down. Is this the strategy you are planning on follow regardless?

Bill Nuti

Management

It is, we feel strongly that in terms of capital allocation, just really you know capital allocation strategy that we do need to put this to rest and significantly reduce the risk in volatility associated with having over $2 billion of our assets tied up in the equities markets, which are highly correlated with our operating businesses. So you know, at the end of the day it could be a really double negative on the business and it’s risky. So for us to completely eliminate that risk and of course the volatility that’s inherent in our equity or the beta if you look at our Beta as a result is very good thing for the company. Now along those lines we decided to do it over three years to take advantage of what we expect to be, a better environment in terms of return on assets and perhaps even an environment where interest rates will be on the rise, both of which are incredibly beneficial NCR’s underfunded pension position by the end of 2012 and on the charts we provided, we actually give you the sensitivity model to kind of see what that means to us. It also helps you to bracket what potential underfunded status is in and our underfunded pension to us is essentially unsecured debt. So I don’t think given the cash we have on our balance sheet are operating cash and/or our ability to access the credit markets. I don’t think we would consciously today in our current position go out and prefund debt, that's unsecured and candidly that has no tax benefits to us. So that’s another benefit if you will of the strategy allows use our bracket if you will, what you think the underfunded might be and then if you treated that underfunded as debt, you can properly value that along those lines.

Kartik Mehta - Northcoast Research

Analyst · Northcoast Research.

Question on the Brazilian ATM markets, the markets you entered I’m just wondering if you can talk about maybe if you started producing ATMs in those markets maybe if you started to having success and gaining market share or how far long you are?

Bill Nuti

Management

We have started producing ATMs. We have been producing ATMs throughout the first quarter. We monitor the factory along with our other factories weekly. We have secured some wins in the quarter, but it just too early to call whether or not it’s going to translate at least in the short-term and to a significant advantage for the company, but no question as we continue to build our supplier network up around our factory, as we continue to do a better job of the research and development side of helping our customers design a solution, we are going to be a force to be reckon within that market.

Kartik Mehta - Northcoast Research

Analyst · Northcoast Research.

Bill, just a question on the DVD kiosk business, I just want to make sure I understand. You talked about the new release, are you guys having to do the work around from the studio and then new releases, or do have an agreement that allows you to get the movies from the studios and therefore not having to do the work around.

Bill Nuti

Management

No, we do not have agreements today with the studio. That's our goal. Our goal is to work closely with the studios and come to an agreement on how we treat new releases. Today, we are essentially working by the advantage of the first auction around being able to supply our kiosks with new releases on day and date. So however we do feel strongly about the advantages of our solution, the differentiation of our solution. As John said we're not a rental arbitrage play. We are an automated store. Our partnership with BLOCKBUSTER and the multi-channel nature of that entity, if you looked at it end-to-end, with BLOCKBUSTER having a day and date privileges, we think that all of that added up is a very powerful argument to bring forward a very powerful channel for the studios to partner with.

Kartik Mehta - Northcoast Research

Analyst · Northcoast Research.

Then one last question Bill on just the DVD business, there was a story our recently that maybe NCR might test $2 for new releases. I am wondering have you tested this in any of the market and if so maybe what type of feedback you received on it?

John Bruno

Analyst · Northcoast Research.

This is John. We have not to date, but we are planning on doing so. So with limited supply, with the situation that we have with the awareness of the titles that are coming out in this next month or two, this represents a perfect opportunity for us to test those markets and demonstrate the results as we continue to negotiate with the studios.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Zahid Siddique with Gabelli.

Zahid Siddique - Gabelli

Analyst · Gabelli.

My first question is on the ATM business, could you talk about the orders for ATMs across your various regions, please?

Bill Nuti

Management

Orders for ATMs, as I said earlier in aggregate we're in the very low 20s in terms of year-on-year order growth. The most significant growth in Europe for ATMs which is our largest market for ATM. So that's encouraging to us. Europe, as you remember last year was surprisingly slow for us but generally speaking, if you looked across financial, you’ve got about 15% year-on-year growth for just the Americas. You’ve got 19% growth for EMEA and you’ve got 25% growth for Asia-pacific. So as you can see, as I said earlier, very well balanced order growth across all region, including the Americas.

Zahid Siddique - Gabelli

Analyst · Gabelli.

Then my final question is on share buyback strategy, have you thought of share buyback at all as you have evaluated your options?

Bill Nuti

Management

We have evaluated the share buyback. We spend and we continue too. As I had mentioned on multiple calls, we are not going to stop what we are responsible in the company and that’s figuring out how we leverage our balance sheet and get the best return on capital for our investors and a share buyback along with a number of other tools that we have, will continue to be in our toolkit and continue to be discussed on a regular basis with the Board of Directors.

Operator

Operator

(Operator Instructions) Your next question comes from Matt Summerville with KeyBanc.

Matt Summerville - KeyBanc

Analyst · KeyBanc.

From a tax standpoint you mentioned that there were some discrete items in Q1. Can you sort of quantify what kind of benefit that was to your income tax rate? Then second, Bill just within the retail business, can you sort of walk through what you've seen in the sub-segments among grocery versus Big Box versus apparel kind of from the demand standpoint?

Bob Fishman

Management

Yeah, actually we're in benefit. We ended up with the 6% rate for the quarter on an operating loss and so the discrete items that we mentioned in the quarter actually were unfavorable to the tax rate and it was basically just our typical accruing for interest as part of the FIN 48 calculation, so nothing unusual there but definitely no discrete item that we took advantage of.

Bill Nuti

Management

On the retail question, Matt the food segment which continued in 2009 to be relatively stable sub-segment of retail, picked up in Q1 in particular for self-check-out. That was the one area where we saw some increased investment. General merchandise is improving because of the obvious consumer sentiment and consumer spending trends in that space, but there is less enthusiasm still in that space to increase budget or spend, however a heck of a lot more in the way of discussion and RFPs and work being considered for future quarters and 2011. Big Box continued or I should say got a little bit stronger in the quarter to some extent self-check-out driven as well, both in the US and particular in Europe, but I would say in that segment as well because of some of the tailwind you are seeing in consumer spending, there has been some excitement. Now that segment, particularly DIY segment of the Big Box retailers, we're going to find out an awful lot of about this month and next month because spring is of course their Christmas and so we'll find out little bit more about that particular segment, but generally the optimism or the tenor of retailers today is improving and certainly it was reflected in the activity we saw in Q1.

Operator

Operator

Our final question today comes from Gil Luria with Wedbush

Gil Luria - Wedbush

Analyst

Just a very quick follow-up on order numbers, I think the order numbers you are referring to the growth rates are year-over-year, could you also tell us how the order rates in the first quarter are compared to Q4 and Q3 of last year?

Bill Nuti

Management

Up low single-digits from Q4 in a 3% range and Q3 Bob?

Bob Fishman

Management

Low single as well.

Bill Nuti

Management

Yeah, low single digit for Q3 as well. Q3, Q4 last year were similar, good quarters. Q3 was a very good quarter for orders last year. Q4 was okay. Typically we have a higher rate in Q4, but we beat both those quarters in Q1 by about 3%.

Gil Luria - Wedbush

Analyst

Great, so nice sequential improvements, thank you very much.

Bill Nuti

Management

I think that’s the last question. I want to thank everybody for joining us today and bearing with what was I know a lot of detailed information and education on our part vis-à-vis pension. We hope you find the presentation useful and we look forward to speaking with all of you throughout the remainder of this quarter and look forward to seeing you again in July. Take care.