Earnings Labs

TriMas Corporation (TRS)

Q2 2012 Earnings Call· Mon, Jul 30, 2012

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good day and welcome to the TriMas Corporation Second Quarter 2012 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the call over to Ms. Sherry Lauderback. Please go ahead.

Sherry Lauderback

Analyst

Thank you and welcome to the TriMas Corporation second quarter 2012 earnings call. Participating on the call today are David Wathen, TriMas’s President and CEO and Mark Zeffiro our Chief Financial Officer. David and Mark will review TriMas’s second quarter results as well as provide some additional details on our 2012 outlook. After our prepared remarks, we will then open the call up to your questions. In order to assist with your review of our results, we have included the Press Release and PowerPoint presentation on our company website www.trimascorp.com under the Investor Section. In addition, a replay of this call will be available later today by calling 888-203-1112, with a replay code of 7687244. Before we get started, I would like to remind everyone that our comments today which are intended to supplement your understanding of TriMas may contain forward-looking statements that are inherently subject to a number of risks and uncertainties. Please refer to our form 10-K for a list of factors that could cause our results to differ from those anticipated in any such forward-looking statements. Also we undertake no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements except as required by law. We would also direct your attention to our website, where considerably more information may be found. At this point, I would like to turn the call over to David Wathen, TriMas President and CEO. Dave?

David Wathen

Analyst

Thank you Sherry and good morning and thanks to all of you listening for your interest in TriMas. Today we are sharing the results of another quarter that demonstrates our continued performance improvement. We continue to stick to our plan, balancing revenue and earnings growth to maximize the value of this company. To outperform the economy, our job is to find the bright spots where we can capture growth for our businesses and execute fast and well on our new product programs and our geographic expansion projects that target this bright spots. In parallel, our job is to be cost effective so that we achieve strong returns on our investments, continuously reduce our cost to stay competitive and are able to keep investing. This quarters top and bottom-line results demonstrate good progress on these TriMas imperatives. Our agenda today is that I will provide an overview of the second quarter, then Mark will discuss financial metrics and some details by segment and I will finish by discussing our outlook and then we will go out to take your questions. Like we have seen our press releases this morning discussing our Q2 results and recent bolt-on acquisition agreements. Let me add some highlights on slide 4, our 17.5% sales growth comes from concentrating on what I am calling the bright spots: places where we can solve a problem for our customers, new products that add features and benefits that our customers are willing to pay for, participating in part of a supply chain in faster growing markets and identifying and executing our compelling bolt-on acquisitions. I will share some examples of our recent successes, when I go to the next slide. During Q2, we achieved a record $0.61 per share of earnings excluding special items. Within the $0.61 we also absorbed…

A. Zeffiro

Analyst

Thank you Dave and good morning. Let’s start with a quick summary of our second quarter results on slide 9, our second quarter sales were $338 million, a record quarterly sales level for TriMas and a 17.5% increase compared to the second quarter of 2011. This is our 9th consecutive quarter of double digit year-over-year sales increases with growth in 5 of our 6 segments. We continue to generate growth on many fronts. Our organic growth efforts focused on new products, growing end markets and market share gains represent approximately 50% of our growth for the quarter and the year. Our bolt-on acquisitions are generating expected or better than expected results. In addition, our sales increases were partially offset by $3.3 million of unfavorable currency exchange. Across the company our strategies and our execution are driving positive results. Q2 operating profit improved approximately 13% compared to Q2, 2011 excluding special items primarily as a result of higher sales. Our operating profit margin declined 60 basis points as margins were impacted by lower European packaging sales, business sales mix including the acquisition and higher cost related to the expansion in energy. Our productivity efforts more than offset the economics in the quarter and as expected continue to fund our growth initiatives. Second quarter, 2012, income from continuing operations attributable to TriMas was $16.7 million. Excluding special items related to debt extinguishment and restructuring costs associated with the manufacturing footprint optimization. Second quarter, 2012, income from continuing operations would have been $23 million an increase of 25% compared to Q2, 2012. During Q2, we achieved a record quarterly diluted EPS of $0.61, all absorbing acquisition related cost and the effects of more shares. Interest expense reduction and effective tax structure management also contributed during the quarter. We remain focused on cash flow…

David Wathen

Analyst

Thanks Mark. Now I will close with a summary and look forward. I believe that TriMas’s second quarter results confirm that our strategies work for us and that our people execute projects well. We are now at 9th consecutive quarters of year-over-year sales and earnings growth meeting our strategic aspirations. We continue to find attractive accretive, bolt-on acquisitions. Our tactic to follow and support our existing customers as they grow in global markets is proving to work well for us. In the targeted countries that we identified 2 years ago remain attractive for growth. Our productivity tactics change but our savings continue to fund our growth investments, our manufacturing expansions are in the right locations for growth and cost out and in parallel with investing for growth we have continued to improve our balance sheet, at debt to EBITDA ratio below 2.2 is an important milestone for us. Concerning our outlook for the balance of 2012 on slide 19, the update is that we are reaffirming our 2012 EPS guidance while raising our sales growth outlook driven by our strong organic growth to-date and our recent acquisitions. Our earnings guidance remains in the $1.75 to a $1.85 per share after adding 4 million shares and including our projected acquisition integration and purchase accounting related costs. CapEx will still be within our original range but likely be close to 4% of sales and growing some on absolute terms to support the top-line. We certainly plan to continue to invest in bolt-ons, CapEx and people to achieve our growth aspirations. Growth is particularly difficult when there are no tail winds from the economy. We see the same head winds everybody does, U.S. GDP at 1% or 2%, growth in emerging markets may be slowing, pressure in Europe, unfavorable currency effects et cetera.…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions]. At this time we will take our first question from Robert Kosowsky with Sidoti.

Robert Kosowsky

Analyst

I was wondering if you can just dive in a little bit more to the margin weakness in energy and kind of what you see as kind of a sustainable margin level that this have kind of an unusual amount of kind of negatives going against at this quarter versus say what we saw like in first quarter and second quarter last year?

A. Zeffiro

Analyst

I'll put it in context. This business has grown sizably in the last year and we are still ironing it out as with any growth environment, those operational factors to make sure that it were efficient as possible plus also in the quarter we did incur some sizeable amounts associated with the acquisition in Brazil and obviously the disruption associated with that and the cost associated with that. So to the end that’s really the effect, long term we remain committed to kind of a team’s level worth of operating profits out of this business and we are starting to see you know the improvement in other areas of the business but it's been more than offset some of the ramp up process associated with those new branches, acquisitions and frankly some of the inefficiencies that we just experienced as a result of those growing pains.

Robert Kosowsky

Analyst

Okay that makes sense and could you maybe just map out a little bit more about what the growth strategy in Brazil is now that you have a beachhead there now. Dave, you kind of touched on it a little bit on the prepared remarks but kind of and you are kind of more I guess ideas like how long it's going to take to fully ramp up and kind of like what the next major steps are.

David Wathen

Analyst

Yes. Of course the end-game is pretty clear, we need to have branches close to their customers, though you can put pins on the map around the coast to Brazil is to where all the new points are going on in. Short term there is more opportunity, I will say with Petrobras because I mean they are building something like 50 plus platforms which because they are in deep drilling sites take more corrosion proofing on the fasteners and more special gaskets and all that. So stage one is make sure we can serve that and we have had plenty of meetings with them where they made it clear that they need us to bring our technology to Brazil. So it feels pretty good and obviously we are capitalizing on that. So short term, it's I will say serve more the supply oil side and the some of the existing refineries which we make sure we know and then you will see us spotting branches near all the new construction sites and that’s a multi-year thing, several years before that’s all built out. So we'll obviously stage them in such a way that we capture some of the build and really of course we are into the ongoing MRO and after-market and rebuild kind of business and so there is not a need to be on the ground in 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 sites right now, we will within a few years. And clearly both fasteners and gaskets, CIFAL is fasteners but I have been there. It's a facility that’s a year old, they are training centers and all that which is important because we tend to train our customer engineers. But also move to put it into the high end sales and gaskets and that sort of thing.

Robert Kosowsky

Analyst

Okay so that’s definitely like over the next few years you are going to be kind of expanding like the products offering down there?

David Wathen

Analyst

Yes pretty fast on the product offering, but slower on the footprint.

Robert Kosowsky

Analyst

Okay it's good to hear and then as far as the aerospace segment you know it seemed like there was a decent head wind on the second quarter last year, was it similar this year, I had a change look at the Q and kind of just your general outlook for margins in that segment as well because it seemed it took a little step down from what it was in 1Q.

A. Zeffiro

Analyst

Rob, you got the same kind of pressure as a result of the NI business in its final step down in terms of activity year-over-year from a comp perspective so that’s really what’s driving the top-line pressure and NI at this point in time is still on that in-between phase of deciding what the future business is. So, that’s yet ahead of us to decide and act on that obviously supporting our customers in that specific space. In terms of the Monogram business, no there isn’t a step back in profitability and in fact they grew nicely in the quarter as I made mention, 10% top-line growth with continued addition to the backlog. So, the business is operating very well.

Robert Kosowsky

Analyst

Okay and then finally Dave what are you seeing as far as like demand in the industrial closures business from Europe and North America, is Europe getting a little bit weaker or is kind of stabilized just kind of any perspective on that?

David Wathen

Analyst

I am going to say stabilized and Europe stabilized at a lower rate but we are watching it all the time and Mark shared with you, I mean that’s been an expensive step down for us because that’s a pretty high margin business for us, I mean we have absorbed it but the U.S. is okay, I mean the 1% or 2% GDP number feels pretty accurate in a business like this that follows GDP and the industrial side of the Rieke business. To predict, that’s the trouble what’s going to happen in the second half and that all. It feels like it's staying flat and I think we can say is the sea is flat, that’s what we got to live with. I am saying it over, the only way you grow in these tight economy is that you take it away from somebody else and you go someplace that's growing faster and obviously we are doing both of these things.

Robert Kosowsky

Analyst

And then just backup in aerospace one last question, it looks like it was 27% operating margin in the first quarter and it stepped down about 25%, was there any kind of anything going on there or was it just kind of product mix.

David Wathen

Analyst

It's product mix. We are a new building a new plant near Phoenix.

Operator

Operator

And we will take our next question from Shivangi Tipnis [ph] with Barrington Research Associates.

Unknown Analyst

Analyst

This is Shivangi Tipnis [ph]. My first question is for the acquisition front, the CIFAL and the Trail Com, do we expect the synergies from the CIFAL to help uplift the operating margin for the energy segment to at least some extent and okay you can go ahead.

David Wathen

Analyst

Yes CIFAL makes specialty fasteners which is kind of what we call the engineered products kind of thing, so it mixes us up into the higher margin products right away.

Unknown Analyst

Analyst

Okay, so, right away in the sense do we expect it to be a benefit in the second half or then in 2013.

David Wathen

Analyst

It looks like longer that, I mean that’s second half is more about adding new products to that business.

A. Zeffiro

Analyst

We would also obviously get the ramp down costs associated with inventory and the step up associated with that et cetera. So that will largely be digested for the first 6months and you should see a step up in terms of relative effects in 2013. Now I believe you also asked the question about Trail Com. Trail Com is and if you put it in a context of our Asia Pacific Cequent business which is very profitable and doing very well. This adds a retail component associated with that business, and there are significant purchasing synergies given the total TriMas leverage that we have in that space. So, we expect to be able to see those margins improve overtime as well.

Unknown Analyst

Analyst

Okay what added acquisition cost do we expect for this year and are there any pipeline of acquisitions that you have planned for the second half of the year?

David Wathen

Analyst

Yes, we of course have molded our acquisition integration cost and all that into our second half in our guidance. The pipeline is pretty decent. You know in a bumpy economy sometimes these opportunities come because of that and of course you know we tend to do bundling acquisitions what we know the owners and all that, the pipeline feels pretty good right now. And we have got some capacity but we are also careful about making sure we got financial capacity. My concern is more about making sure we have got the people capacity to do the integration. So we are thoughtful about that.

Unknown Analyst

Analyst

Okay sounds good; my other question is from the pricing pressures. Do you see the pricing pressure, how do they look like for the Europe problem specially and did TriMas undertake any price increases during this quarter?

A. Zeffiro

Analyst

I am sorry could you repeat the question?

Unknown Analyst

Analyst

How do you see the pricing pressures especially in Europe and did you guys take any price increases during the quarter?

A. Zeffiro

Analyst

It doesn’t really, obviously solely to Europe. Our businesses do obviously take price win, the economics otherwise warranted and otherwise they would like to reposition in the market space. We did take price on the net basis up within Q2 and it was across different businesses and different geographies. It didn’t relate specifically to Europe but it did relate to the economics that otherwise we'd experience from an inflation perspective.

Unknown Analyst

Analyst

Okay that’s helpful, just my last question, can you comment on the normalized annual tax rate for 2012?

A. Zeffiro

Analyst

Our planning rate in terms of 2012 is approximately 33%.

Operator

Operator

And we will take our next question from Scott Graham with Jefferies.

R. Scott Graham

Analyst · Jefferies.

Several questions for you, someone mentioned in the queue, I haven’t seen it so Mark if you can help me kind of square up some model stuff. The Cequent sales dollars acquisitions in the sales line, could you tell us what that was?

A. Zeffiro

Analyst · Jefferies.

If you think about the acquisition in terms of Asia Pacific, Trail Com, it's about a $12 million run rate revenue business.

R. Scott Graham

Analyst · Jefferies.

Wasn’t there an acquisition in the number as well?

A. Zeffiro

Analyst · Jefferies.

Yes the South African number is about a $1 million, Scott.

R. Scott Graham

Analyst · Jefferies.

Okay and could you also tell us what the FX was in the packaging and Cequent’s businesses?

A. Zeffiro

Analyst · Jefferies.

Yes FX in terms of the effect within the business itself, give me one second here I am digging around, the packaging business from a sales perspective is up $2 million.

R. Scott Graham

Analyst · Jefferies.

So just $2 million negative in packaging and what was it in Cequent?

A. Zeffiro

Analyst · Jefferies.

Cequent is about a $0.5 million, a little more than that, sales number.

R. Scott Graham

Analyst · Jefferies.

All right, and last one like that, the packaging margins without the acquisitions?

A. Zeffiro

Analyst · Jefferies.

Packaging margins without the acquisitions.

R. Scott Graham

Analyst · Jefferies.

Yes the base business.

A. Zeffiro

Analyst · Jefferies.

Scott, I don’t have that immediately at my fingertips.

R. Scott Graham

Analyst · Jefferies.

Okay we can circle back on that.

A. Zeffiro

Analyst · Jefferies.

But I would tell you that the core margins in that business remain pretty stable and in fact slightly up year-on-year due to productivity efforts.

David Wathen

Analyst · Jefferies.

And packaging was one of the business we got some price in and so the margins feel pretty good in the base business. It's the work in the acquisition and the synergies and all that.

R. Scott Graham

Analyst · Jefferies.

Two maybe broader questions here, the acquisition of the Australian businesses I guess it's a little curious from my standpoint because in past conversations you know I just got the impression that it was the M&A pipeline was going to be more skewed and more focused on the other businesses. Could you kind of walk me through your thinking on adding to Cequent.

David Wathen

Analyst · Jefferies.

I kind of put acquisitions in strategic push form, bind them bucket and opportunistic. When Carl and crew who run that business told me that I had learned that we were actually fairly weak in New Zealand. The strong as we are, we are a very high share throughout Australia. We were fairly weak in New Zealand and the owners of biggest distributor in New Zealand were ready to retire or whatever. I would call it opportunistic that said here is the way to take everything we do in a business that has very attractive margins and growth rates and just add to it, add a quite attractive multiple. So call it the opportunistic kind and we will continue to do those. We have got, the test is that we have the financial and the people horsepower, this is also one where we ask the people horsepower to tuck it into the existing business. So we going to like the results.

R. Scott Graham

Analyst · Jefferies.

Okay so Cequent is kind of back on for acquisitions, I guess I thought we were heading in the other direction on that so, perhaps I was mistaken.

A. Zeffiro

Analyst · Jefferies.

Scott, I would say though if you look at the return on capital proposition associated with that acquisition we are all going to like the outcomes and when you put it in that context it's about opportunistic. We had a guy retiring that was looking to sell the business, why do you want to increase it have another competitor in that space. So in terms of the total dollars, if you will allocate it to I will tell you, the way you just characterized it, it isn’t that it's back on, its end markets that make sense, the returns that make sense and a multiple that made sense in terms of buying that acquisition.

R. Scott Graham

Analyst · Jefferies.

So, the pipeline now, if we were to look forward and obviously we are not asking what’s in it but could you give us an idea Dave on where the pipeline is strong, in which segment and kind of are there anything, is anything closer to the finish line.

David Wathen

Analyst · Jefferies.

We continue the -- the pipeline that we -- I am visualizing the chart in my head, it's clearly packaging, energy and aerospace and while in a way I would dismiss aircraft because the multiples we got a new management team in that business because the retirement of the guy that ran it for a long time. Sometimes somebody new brings these new ideas, so I am actually little more encouraged by some of the opportunities we are seeing for acquisitions in that aircraft space. We are keeping after those, because as you know attractive they are strategically. Energy is, we got the footprint and we have to make the choice about these are better to do acquisition or by greenfield and so it comes down to condition and price in existing business and how long. Although we are going to be busy for a while now in energy with CIFAL. Packaging, there are--the pipeline feels pretty good and again we are busy and it's a people choice thing so you would only, well more likely to only go after very well run businesses that as opposed to the turnaround kind of situation, but they are out there. The big question mark and you have heard me say this before is there is a lot of technology in Europe that’s attractive in packaging but Europe is tough place right now. But we will keep our ears and eyes open because there are going to ones that make sense.

A. Zeffiro

Analyst · Jefferies.

Scott, I would add one thing and that is Brazil.

David Wathen

Analyst · Jefferies.

Yes Brazil is attractive in multiple markets and I would say that cuts across TriMas.

R. Scott Graham

Analyst · Jefferies.

The Brazil acquisition I think that’s strategically perfect for what we have coming up with Petrobras. So where are the multiples on these things as a function of EBITDA, are they under 10?

David Wathen

Analyst · Jefferies.

Yes, we are responsible to our shareholders and our Board reminds us of that. They are -- you wouldn’t roll it out but now that it's a lot, it's a heck of a lot easier been accretive if you are down, it's mid-single digits.

Operator

Operator

And we will take our next question from Mark Tobin with Roth Capital Partners.

Mark Tobin

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

I think kind of following on to the pipeline question, can you talk about the packaging side, what you are seeing I guess from an opportunity standpoint, I know in that business you tend to have some larger business that you worked on with the revenue contribution that comes down the road.

A. Zeffiro

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

Now Mark if you are talking the acquisition side of it obviously we continue to mine that field very extensively, we have got very experienced leadership team and many of you have the chance to meet with identifying the right kind of bolt-on’s both from a technical and a regional perspective. And they have been exceptionally busy with the shipments first headed to Asia now in terms of those shipments to our customer in Asia that consumer packaged goods company that I made mention of. And with Arminak I will tell you that with the addition of manufacturing capability in the United States here in the next 6 months, we are expecting some pretty sizeable increases in revenues there, almost onto itself like a separate little standalone acquisition in terms of acquiring into this new market and new customer that’s going very well.

David Wathen

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

The front of the line in packaging is technology because there are some technologies and you know we stay in the technical in the dispensers is our business, then closures and that sort of thing and there are certainly there are some technologies that take a long time to develop and we are finding that sometimes in acquisitions it's a better way to go. The other thing it could happen in packaging is a capacity add. Sometimes that’s easier to buy a kind of a soft competitor for their capacity because it's equipment we know well and all that. So we have our eyes open about that, we have had some good ones to those in the past and we are the team knows I would like them to find the right one that adds because we know how many new molding machines we need and all that to serve the volume particularly in Asia. So there could be a deal that we had in that area too.

Mark Tobin

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

And then on your end market commentary, to me it sounded pretty consistent with the commentaries during the last quarter’s call as far choppiness and uncertainty. Are there any differences that you could highlight between what you are seeing now versus what you saw 3 months ago?

David Wathen

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

Yes off the top of my head I would say that some of the shale field stuff and all that in energy has slowed a little on the equipment side. But the compression business is up. Again the team in Tulsa gets very high marks for jumping on where the opportunity is and of course they live right in the middle of that whole conversation. I would say in energy for us I mentioned corrosion proof because of depth and all that. You know that industry is continuing to upgrade its safety and consistent and all that it's good for us on the higher end products and we have to make sure we have got all the right things. So there is little tweaks that go on, no surprises really in aircraft, it's just our content is good. I was pleasantly surprised by real orders in China that matter. China is a tough place to sell that kind of technology probably because they would rather manufacture it themselves and we feel good about proving we are the producer. Norris is-- that pure industrial business looked pretty flat out there, that business happened to scramble for more applications in buyer safety and that kind of thing. We all know though, it's a flat tough fewer market in anything except the bright spots to go after. It feels tough and the trick is find the right places to go after and it's just going to be that way for -- and that’s the way we want it.

Operator

Operator

And we will take our next question from Wayne Archambo with Monarch Partners.

Wayne Archambo

Analyst · Monarch Partners.

Yes I had a question on the pipeline but it sounds like that you have answered this a number of times, so I appreciate your expansion on that.

Operator

Operator

And we will take our next question from DeForest Hinman with Walthausen & Co.

DeForest Hinman

Analyst · Walthausen & Co.

First on Europe, you talked about the weakness there in demand but the euro is weak as well. Is there any export opportunities in that market or is it kind of captive in the sense where we produced there and we sell there as well.

David Wathen

Analyst · Walthausen & Co.

We generally produce in Europe what we sell in Europe there is some export businesses in the Europe but not enough that we would spell out that and it's not going to hurt us. So, I will say caution I have is European companies export into the U.S. because of currency and we're watching that closely. An example of that would be of course there is only few companies in the world that can make industrial gas cylinders. Two of them are in Europe and with the euro weak it makes it easier for them. Now, on the other side of that whole equation of course the softness in Europe, I'd hate to be an exporter sitting in China losing business in Europe and looking for places to sell and all that. So, it has made the companies in China that we do some business with more competitive, they've had to be. You know how it is, you just keep after the effects of all and try to find the places to capitalize on it and don’t let the pain hurt you too bad.

A. Zeffiro

Analyst · Walthausen & Co.

One other things I would there in terms of Europe is the Rieke business and which is really our largest concentrate in Europe always looks at it's make, make buy analysis in terms of its global footprint. So the flow of products is part and parcel of what they do in terms of thinking about what European supply could end up other places, so that’s just normal course of events for us.

DeForest Hinman

Analyst · Walthausen & Co.

Okay and on the CIFAL acquisition, what was the actual multiple on that deal?

A. Zeffiro

Analyst · Walthausen & Co.

We traditionally don’t disclose that but it's consistent with our historical multiples that we paid which is less 10 kind of numbers and if you look at historically they are around the number of about 6 or little more than 6.

DeForest Hinman

Analyst · Walthausen & Co.

Okay and building on that, I think we were selling into Brazil if I am not mistaken. How much revenue potentially could we shift from import basis into Brazil and quickly flip it over to being produced at CIFAL to kind of avoid the import tariffs?

A. Zeffiro

Analyst · Walthausen & Co.

Yes, the single customer that if I understand your question about this, it is really pre-existing customers on a global basis that we have there locally. It isn’t a material amount that we have been shipping into Brazil. As you may know, those import duties like make it a make in Brazil for consumption and Brazil kind of market. So that’s going to help us in terms of stepping forward there.

David Wathen

Analyst · Walthausen & Co.

But I will reinforce it with an anecdote, the management team at CIFAL is staying because they see the upside of being part of Lamons, been involved with Lamons. Pre-acquisition that management team was identifying orders and actually got some orders for product if they did traditionally have but Lamons could provide, so that really reinforced to those people how valuable the broad product line was going to be and it's not trivial amounts. It's enough that-- we will have, you will see a nice ramp in that business. But again it's not a matter of flipping production into it, it's really about incremental sales due a broader product line.

DeForest Hinman

Analyst · Walthausen & Co.

Okay and as of today with this acquisition with CIFAL do we see a need for more acquisitions on the gaskets and the bolts in Brazil or do we think this management team can kind of grow this business organically with capital from us.

David Wathen

Analyst · Walthausen & Co.

We know we need multiple sites in Brazil because our model is close to our customers with fast turnaround and it comes down to, it's a lot faster to do it by acquisition. So if we can find the right price and the right product and all that you have a right experience. What it's really about the people, you will see us doing more acquisitions in Brazil.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions]. We do have a follow-up question from Robert Kosowsky with Sidoti.

Robert Kosowsky

Analyst

Yes just a couple of other questions, first off you mentioned in packaging especially dispenser in North America, that revenue growth is going well. I was wondering you can kind of give us some more color as to where that exactly is been sold into and then also more broadly talk about the revamp of the sales force especially dispensing side now Arminak in the fold and just kind of what the what you are thinking about, where you want to take that from kind of higher level standpoint.

David Wathen

Analyst

Let me comment on the sales force first, we know we need one global sales force, that’s the end-game. So we are as you would expect with a couple of fairly large acquisitions we were heading that way. We will do it fairly slowly because you know it's a business that pricing is vitally important, being with the right customers is vitally important, so it needs, you know it needs to be well thought out, so I am not sure what else to say to say as far as this isn’t something that’s going to happen in a month. It's going to take us a while, we are going to march down the road very, very carefully.

Robert Kosowsky

Analyst

That’s good to hear. And then also about the revenue opportunities on like the legacy specialty dispensing business in North America.

David Wathen

Analyst

One of the advantages that Arminak bought is a much broader line of foamer products and there is a lot of activity in that product line and it's exactly, call it integrated sales force, it's a sales force that didn’t have the whole product line having more now.

A. Zeffiro

Analyst

I would also tell you that there are certain customers that are wining in the market that we happen to have excellent relationships with and we have been afforded broader offerings with them as a result of that, I wouldn’t say its new customers but its preexisting customers outside the acquisition discussion.

David Wathen

Analyst

Yes because of the product line we may able to offer more.

Robert Kosowsky

Analyst

And then finally in Norris, was there any kind of one time pickup from the anti-dumping rules or kind of did anything kind of mess around with the quarter in particular?

A. Zeffiro

Analyst

No, I will tell Rob, this has been a yearlong process whereby the chilling effect if you will really has been experienced over the last 12 months as you have to make known that you are bringing a suit to market for suit in front of the obviously the appropriate bodies. Now what I will tell you is that there was an effect there that ultimately resulted in us gaining share over the last 12 months, it's nothing within the quarter it's been an ongoing effect.

Operator

Operator

And we have no further questions in the queue at this time.

David Wathen

Analyst

Okay we appreciate your attention, I always appreciate the team at TriMas that pull together and produce great results. I am proud of the crew, again thanks for your attention and obviously we would follow-up you know that Sherry's on point. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

And that does conclude today’s conference. Thank you for your participation.