Earnings Labs

Oshkosh Corporation (OSK)

Q2 2009 Earnings Call· Thu, Apr 30, 2009

$149.56

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Welcome to the Oshkosh Corporation fiscal year 2009 second quarter financial results conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host Mr. Pat Davidson, Vice President of Investor Relations for Oshkosh Corporation.

Patrick Davidson

Management

Earlier today we published our second quarter results for fiscal 2009. A copy of the release is available on our web site at www.oshkoshcorporation.com. Today's call is being webcast and is accompanied by a slide presentation, which is also available on our website. The audio replay and slide presentation will be available on the website for approximately 12 months and please refer now to slide two of that presentation. Our remarks that follow, including answers to your questions, include statements that we believe to be forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks that could cause actual results to be materially different. Those risks include among others matters that we have described in our Form 8-K filed with the SEC this morning and other filings we make with the SEC. We disclaim any obligation to update these forward-looking statements which may not be updated until our next quarterly earnings conference call, if at all. On March 31, we announced that we would be recording non-cash asset impairment charges of approximately $1.2 to $1.5 billion in our second fiscal quarter. The actual amount of the impairment charges totaled $1.2 billion pretax and $1.17 billion net of tax. Unless stated otherwise, all figures and data that we discuss today will relate to our performance excluding the non-cash asset impairment charges. For the purposes of our discussion today, we believe that excluding impairment charges is the best was for you the participants on this call to better understand our operating performance. A reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures to the most comparable GAAP measures can be found in the last slide of our presentation, as well as in our earnings release both of which are available on the website. Presenting today for Oshkosh Corporation will be Bob Bohn our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Charlie Szews our President and Chief Operating Officer, and Dave Sagehorn Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Let's begin by turning to slide three. I'll turn it over to you, Bob.

Robert G. Bohn

Management

Oshkosh, similar to most companies, continues to face a series of challenges caused by weakened markets and other factors that are related in some way to the global recession and tight credit availability. In response to these challenges, we are continually striving to capture potential sales opportunities, reduce our cost structure and drive cash flow generation to sustain the business during these uncertain times. There were several notable activities completed by Oshkosh during the quarter that demonstrate our proactive management during these difficult times. One of the most important for many of our investors was the amendment to our credit agreement. Obviously, we would have preferred to avoid seeking an amendment, but we were pleased with the outcome, especially given the difficult credit environment in which we were negotiating. In connection with the amendment with our credit agreement, we agreed to limit capital spending and dividends our board has decided to suspend payment of dividends at this time. We continue to work on cost reduction actions during this quarter raising our expected fiscal 2009 overhead and operating expense savings from $150 million to more than $200 million. We expect to achieve this higher level of cost reduction by implementing comprehensive actions that touch all areas of the company. Since our last earnings call in January, we have reduced wages for all salary domestic employees with larger wage reductions at the senior executive level. Furthermore, we have eliminated all bonuses for fiscal 2009, implemented periodic furloughs for salary and production employees at corporate and in most businesses in the company, eliminated our 401(k) match for fiscal 2009 for most employees, and implemented further reductions to marketing, information technology, travel, and other spending. We've also reached agreements with our suppliers to rollback virtually all material cost increases that were granted in fiscal…

Charles L. Szews

Management

Please turn with me to slide six and we'll get started. In the second quarter we experienced the full force of the global recession in our access equipment segment. Never before has JLG experienced as rapid a decline demand as in this recession. Equipment sales were down roughly 80% in Europe, 70% in North America and 70% in the rest of the work in the second quarter. Our sales teams were on every major deal but passed on some that just made no economic sense. There remains too much inventory in the industry and that is driving some desperate deal making. We were forced to make multiple [donor] adjustments to our production schedules during the quarter to reflect much lower demand than we had expected. We believe that equipment utilization and rental rates, which were down only modestly in our first fiscal quarter and now noticeably lower. Limited credit availability and general uncertainty about the economy have forced some customers to the sideline while others have chosen to conserve their capital and age their rental fleet assets. Now, we do expect a small seasonal uptick in our access equipment business in our third fiscal quarter as weather permits more construction activity and refurbishment. In recent openings of modest sales and service centers in Sao Paulo, Brazil, Perth, Australia, New Delhi, India, and Singapore should support our sales efforts in markets that are relatively solid. We're just beginning to understand the value proposition from the use of access equipment. As we consider where and when the U.S. stimulus package might impact our businesses, we do not expect to realize any substantial positive impact to our access equipment business in fiscal 2009. However, we are hopeful that projects funded with stimulus package money will start and contractors will begin buying and renting…

David M. Sagehorn

Management

Please turn to slide ten. Before I take you through our financial results, I'd like to review the highlights to the recently completed amendment to our credit agreement. Of course the reason we completed the amendment was to provide ourselves with headroom under our financial covenants, namely our leverage and interest coverage ratios. Since we completed the amendment, we've been asked about how much room we have under our covenants. Credit markets currently aren't conducive to setting covenant levels that you can drive a truck through, but we're committed to doing what we believe it will take to avoid violating a covenant. The non-cash impairment charges we recorded in the second quarter have no impact on the financial covenants or on our cash flow. Post amendment, our interest rate spread is LIBOR plus 600 basis points, or approximately 450 basis points higher than immediately prior to the amendment. For much of the past year our LIBOR spread was 175 basis points, so on a blended basis the new spread is closer to 425 basis points higher compared to the prior 12 months, and we don't have a LIBOR floor. This rate will go up by another 50 basis points if we are downgraded and put on negative watch by either Moody's or S&P. The approximately $20 million in fees we paid upfront for the amendment are being amortized over the remaining life of the credit agreement. The amendment also limits our ability to make capital expenditures, pay dividends and make acquisitions. As Bob noted earlier, we're pleased to have the amendment behind us. Now, let's turn to slide 11 and take a look at our financial performance. Consolidated net sales of $1.3 billion for the second fiscal quarter were down 26.9% compared to the second fiscal quarter of last year…

Robert G. Bohn

Management

For the next 6 to 12 months we expect our company to face a mixed outlook, likely resulting in a consolidated loss for the full year excluding the impact of the impairment charges recorded during the quarter. Our defense, Pierce fire apparatus, airport products and domestic refuse collection vehicle businesses should continue to perform well on their current backlogs and multiple business opportunities. In particular, our defense group is competing for several programs that we'll be deciding in the next two to three quarters. But in our other businesses we will continue to face difficult, and in some cases, very difficult market conditions until the global economy and the credit market stabilize. Through this period we expect to continue to launch strong new products that our customers desire and value. We will continue to build and strengthen our distribution. Leading our markets with the best products and aftermarket support has been, and will continue to be part of Oshkosh's approach to winning in the marketplace whether we are in a recession or in an economic recovery. We have strong, strong brands that are second to none and we are committed to keeping them there. Of course, we will also continue to aggressively manage our cost, inventories and cash flow. We will maintain an intense pursuit of every potential sales opportunity and do what we believe it takes to manage this business until there is an economic recovery. Oshkosh is built strong, and we expect to power our way through this recession. With that, I'll turn it back over to Pat and [Melissa] the operator for questions.

Patrick Davidson

Management

I'd like to remind everyone to limit their questions to one plus a follow-up. Please avoid questions with multiple subparts, as this sometimes gets difficult for us to follow and will ensure that everybody gets a chance to participate. After the follow up, we ask that each participant get back in queue to ask additional questions and we'll take as many as we can. Operator, [Melissa], please begin the Q&A and we'll get started.

Operator

Operator

(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from Charlie Brady - BMO Capital Markets.

Charlie Brady with BMO Capital Markets

Analyst

With respect to the JLG business, you guys have obviously been taking a lot of cost out as quickly as you possibly can there, but I guess I'm just wondering, the market is still soft and where it is, how much more can you take out of there to stabilize the margins? And then as a follow-up to that, as we look into the inventory level to the company as a whole, where do you see inventory reductions in the second half, and kind of where do inventories and JLG specifically look today relative to a year ago?

Charles L. Szews

Management

Okay, now there are multiple subparts there. I'll take some and then I think Dave will take some more okay? Okay, let's see, for JLG, we do believe that there's additional cost reduction that we can do that will help us stabilize margins as we proceed over the next few quarters. Probably the principle thing that we've done and Bob suggested that in the call is that we have now been able to get through all our supply base for JLG, have recovered all the cost increases or negotiated recovery of all the cost increases that we had to endure when commodity prices doubled. And in fact, we really didn't see the cost spot prices and steel come down until January in some of the product lines, so we negotiate all the recovery. We do have to wean some of our inventory, our higher cost inventory out through the P&L and that's exasperated by the fact that we've got lower sales. But we see the end of the tunnel there and progressively as we go through the fiscal year, we should start to see our material cost structure improve and then I think by fiscal 2010 we'll be in pretty good shape. So I do think that will be a tailwind to help our margins. We've also worked really, really hard at getting our staffing and our variable costs in that business to match the marketplace. Having said that, we've maintained limited investments where it's really important in certain service areas around the globe, we're going to continue to provide the best service in the industry and customers are recognizing that in this downturn. On the inventory, Dave, you want to comment?

David M. Sagehorn

Management

Charlie, year-over-year JLG's inventories are down about $145 million and as we look forward to the rest of the year here, we do think we have an opportunity to take somewhere between another $50 million to $100 million out of inventory in that business.

Charles L. Szews

Management

And it's basically being done by very aggressively addressing our production [scale].

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from Alex Blanton - Oshkosh Corporation. Alex Blanton – Oshkosh Corporation: I'd like to continue on that inventory theme. If you look at the inventory as a whole for the, the end of the quarter was $915 million. That was down about 3% from last September. However, the cost of goods sold were down 32% and sales were down 29% from September, so the turns went from 6.9 turns to 5. Now if you'd maintained the 6.9 turns that you had at the end of September, your inventory would have been $240 million lower and you would have generate that much cash. So I don't understand why inventories aren't down a lot more than they are. And the second, I don't want to ask a multi-part question. That's the question, why aren't inventories down more? And then the material side, at JLG, the last time I was there, there was one day's supply of engines, there was a few days' supply of steel. So I'm having a really hard time understanding why the material cost reductions that you've negotiated haven't shown up yet. I mean, I didn't see a lot of raw materials on hand the last time I was in that plant.

Charles L. Szews

Management

Okay, Alex, in terms of inventory, first of all we've got a mix, if you look at some of our businesses we're actually looking at business picking up here in the second half of the year. Alex Blanton – Oshkosh Corporation: But the mix is reflected in the sales, is it not? Sales are down, inventories or not.

Charles L. Szews

Management

Alex, let me finish. Alexander Blanton – Oshkosh Corporation: Okay.

Charles L. Szews

Management

So we've got defense business, fire business, and our refuse collection vehicle businesses where we're expecting some higher volumes and so we're going to be shipping that over the next six months and so we've got some inventory builds offset by, for example, at JLG, a situation where sales just went down 70% in a quarter and progressively the demand fell as the quarter goes, so you're aggressively reducing your production schedules to match that and as you go through a quarter, just to be able to keep inventory flat in that kind of an environment is a hell of an achievement. Now, by the time the year is over, we do expect to get our inventory down to JLG, like Dave said another $50 million to $100 million. Most of the inventory that you were talking about here is in finished goods and that's why it's hard to get it to the P&L, we have to sell the finished goods. Quite a bit of that is in Europe where demand is down 80%. So you have vehicles product that you can only sell in Europe because it's made to CE standards, and you have to have the demand in that particular market to get it, to sell it and then to get that higher cost inventory or material cost out of your books. Alexander Blanton – Oshkosh Corporation: Some of that's on ships too, is it not? Going to Europe?

Charles L. Szews

Management

No. Not at this time. Alexander Blanton – Oshkosh Corporation: Now what about the raw materials costs I asked about? I mean, I didn't see a lot of raw materials on hand the last time I went to that plant, so why is it taking so long for those raw material cost savings to show up? It should be showing up in a few days.

Charles L. Szews

Management

Well, we have contracts. Our suppliers also have inventory that they purchased under contracts and so to get it through the system, it takes a little bit of time. It took a little bit of time to get the higher cost into our system and it's going to take a little bit of time to get it out of the system. And I could tell you, we've had good support back from our supply base. They haven't always wanted to support it, but they understand the situation I suppose, and we're trying to balance the inventory in our supply chain, as well as our own. Alexander Blanton – Ingalls & Snyder: When were those price negotiations finished and effective?

Charles L. Szews

Management

Well, again, we started to take, and then we're going to take another question, Alex, we started to take cost reduction already in the fall. But, if you recall, steel went down in steps and it didn't hit the bottom really until late January. In fact, we just had a couple of grades that just went down the last month. So it's not like everybody thinks that everything hit the bottom at the same time, it did not. The bottom on one particular grade of steel hit the bottom in the last month. For most of it, it was by the end of January.

Robert G. Bohn

Management

Alex, this is Bob. You can bet that Craig Paylor and his team, they're monitoring this and measuring it on a daily, weekly basis, along with Charlie and Dave. They're on top of the situation and I'm pleased with what they've been doing.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from Steve Barger – Keybanc Capital Markets. Steve Barger – Keybanc Capital Markets: Sticking with JLG for a minute, with lower op material costs and a smaller headcount, can you get to a single-digit negative operating margin if you're putting through $250 million to $300 million through the new cost structure? And can you just give us some sense of what the breakeven revenue level is in that business?

David M. Sagehorn

Management

Steve, obviously, we do have the material cost issue, which is impacting us there. I think we also have a sales mix that's a little different than we would normally see today, with the higher percentage of telehandlers than historical. And as I think we've described they do generally have lower margins than AWPs. We don't think that's something that's permanent and I think as you factor in those two things alone. We also took, of the $3.8 million of charges in the quarter, restructuring charges, a majority of that was JLG. So I think you start adding all those things together and we think it's very achievable to get back into a single-digit loss at these levels, anyway, as we look forward. Steve Barger – Keybanc Capital Markets: And you did mention a seasonal uptick in access, is that a substantial revenue increase you think, potentially sequentially or something more modest?

Charles L. Szews

Management

Our mark's at a modest uptick and that's basically what it is. Obviously, you see the weather getting better, so you see more cream and orange around the country as we're traveling on jobsites and out doing work. And as the stimulus package comes into play, I think you're going to see even more cream and orange around the country. Steve Barger – Keybanc Capital Markets: Just one more and I'll get back in queue, just to follow up on that. If you see a sequential uptick in your fiscal third quarter, is that possible in the fourth quarter as well, as stimulus starts to flow or would you expect that to tail off in the back half or in the back last quarter?

Charles L. Szews

Management

It's a different environment to be able to predict and generally what I would say is that our fourth fiscal quarter in access is our second best quarter of the fiscal year in access equipment. So that's generally the way the seasonal pattern would be, so we'd expect it to be a little bit less in the third fiscal quarter but still on a relative basis, more robust than the rest of the fiscal year. That's kind of the typical pattern. Whether or not that repeats itself, you know, we're in a little different environment.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from Jamie Cook – Credit Suisse Group. Jamie Cook – Credit Suisse Group: Just a follow-up question, well, you talked about taking $50 million to $100 million out of inventory for JLG. Can you talk to us about what you're targeting in other divisions and how you're thinking about your receivables at these levels and how low can they go, just as I think about free cash flow for the year? And then my last question or my follow-up question is can you talk about I guess provisions for bad debt, where you took that? I'm assuming you probably took more in JLG, so how much was that and did you take any in other segments?

David M. Sagehorn

Management

Jamie, I think we've got them all here. In terms of other inventory, we do have opportunities we believe at other segments, but as Charlie mentioned, we do expect some stronger sales in the second half of the year at some of our businesses that will mute some of what we're seeing in other businesses. We aren't going to give a target for where our inventory levels are going to be. Jamie Cook – Credit Suisse Group: Do you think about $50 million to $100 million in aerials is probably a reasonable ballpark?

David M. Sagehorn

Management

Yes, I think that's a reasonable ballpark. Jamie Cook – Credit Suisse Group: And then on the receivable side?

David M. Sagehorn

Management

In terms of DSOs, I think probably consistent with where we are currently would be, if you're looking to model something out, I think that's probably the best advice I can give you there. And then in terms of bad debts, we did increase the reserves at JLG in the quarter. They weren't anywhere nearly as significant as the charges we took, though, in the first quarter and we think we have appropriate reserves based on our view of the… Jamie Cook – Credit Suisse Group: And was that all in Europe, where you took the provision for bad debt there?

David M. Sagehorn

Management

During the quarter? Jamie Cook – Credit Suisse Group: Yes.

David M. Sagehorn

Management

It was kind of in the overall general reserve area. There were, I think, one or two smaller specific reserves and I think one was domestic and one internationally.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from David Raso – ISI Group. David Raso – ISI Group: The interest expense, you noted it would tick up in the next quarter. Can you give more specific guidance, what kind of range you're looking for, for the third and fourth quarter?

David M. Sagehorn

Management

I guess, David, probably the best thing I can do there for you is if you look at where our debt balance was at the quarter, we do expect that we will be cash flow positive in the second half of the year. We aren't going to quantify how much we believe we'll pay down debt. But if you look at our debt at the end of the second quarter and then just factor in the incremental spread, that's probably about the best I can give you for guidance. David Raso – ISI Group: I'm looking for a little more than that, I guess. Regarding the net debt draw down this past quarter, it's obviously pretty modest it was $22 million, what's the bogey for the full year? What's your target for net debt reduction?

David M. Sagehorn

Management

We've not given a target for the full year. Again, we believe we'll be cash flow positive in the second half of the year, but we aren't going to provide a number on that. David Raso – ISI Group: And the dividend suspension, was that, the amendment obviously restricts your ability how much you pay in dividends and repurchase and so forth, but was the suspension something you chose to do and you could have kept a low dividend or was it related to the amendment?

Robert G. Bohn

Management

Yes, that's exactly it. This is Bob. We chose to do that, our board, and really focusing on cash preservation and paying down debt and we're going to be doing that, as well as looking at our inventories and really monitoring our cash flow as we get out of this recession. David Raso – ISI Group: The fourth quarter, the EBITDA to LTM interest expense ratio, the 1.58, that seems like the covenant that maybe the toughest, I guess so to speak, the next stretch of quarters here. When I think about my model and that becomes close to being tripped in the fourth quarter, especially given some of the aerial losses we've seen in the Access business, is it more of a situation where you feel comfortable, when you amended that particular covenant, that you want to be tripping it again in the fiscal fourth quarter because of the cash generation? Are you paying down the debt or am I understating the ability for EBITDA the next couple of quarters? I know you don't have my model in front of you, but I'm just trying to, I just figured when you did the amendments, that would have been made easier if that wasn't even close to being tripped, but I know in my models it's kind of tight in the fourth quarter.

Charles L. Szews

Management

From our perspective here, we're going to do whatever it takes not to have to go back again, and that's why we have all these plans in place with what we're doing with inventories and costs reductions and that. It's hard to predict what next month is going to be or the next six months, with this recession that we're in that's very deep, but when we look at our fire business, our refuse business, and our defense business, we're working hard to get through this. David Raso – ISI Group: End of the day, the net debt should not be where it is today at the end of the fiscal year, correct? I mean this is not a story about as much EBITDA as it is debt net debt number and less the interest expense should be coming the net debt should be going down the next couple of quarters.

David M. Sagehorn

Management

As we said, we believe we'll be cash flow positive and we believe we're going to get through the covenants.

Charles L. Szews

Management

And you've got to remember, also, that as the year progresses and our defense business strengthens we just received this $122 million order for axles under MRAP vehicles and that really starts to kick in in the second half of the year and so we've got some positive things here that make us feel better about the rest of the year.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from Jerry Revich – Goldman Sachs. Jerry Revich – Goldman Sachs: Given the leadership change in defense, I'm wondering if you could please talk about new initiatives that you're focused on based on your TAK-4 suspension sales. It sounds like you might be going after a wider range of opportunities.

Charles L. Szews

Management

We're not going to be too broad about this, we'd prefer to get further down the path in some of our boarder initiatives, but certainly you mentioned a great one. Our TAK-4 Independent Suspension is the best independent suspension there is in the world for medium and heavy payload trucks, and plus we've now got another generation for lighter vehicles. So it's an awesome suspension. If you need to go off-road in a terrain like Afghanistan, you want to be in a vehicle with our suspension. And I think the Joint Program Office certainly saw that for the Cougar MRAP vehicle we are in testing for another MRAP vehicle. We said that on the call we are hopeful that we can enter dialogue for some additional MRAP models. I think you've heard a lot of comments from different Army and Marine Corps officials about interest in putting independent suspension on the MRAP vehicles. We are going to pursue this. It's a very cost effective for the Department of Defense and it gets them a very, very capable vehicle. Now, that same independent suspension is what's under our M-ATV offering and that's another major effort that [Andy] is helping us on. We do expect that we're days away from the Joint Program Office awarding IDIQ contracts and we're obviously hopeful that we will be one of those to receive an IDIQ contract. Then we expect some additional testing of the vehicles, don't know exactly what that testing might entail, and then there would be an award in late May or June. So, that's certainly an effort that's in front of us. We mentioned the Australian Defense Forces. We have our vehicles now running around the country of Australia for the next nine months in various conditions, on-road, off-road trying to perform various missions. We do think that our vehicles have performed very well in test. And because they want a vehicle that's more off-road capable and we'll pursue other opportunities like these around the world where we can take advantage of our mobility capability because the soldiers are realizing that they can't really have these great big heavy vehicles and they've got to be able to go where the fight is and the fight isn't always running down the highway. So, we're going to be very aggressive in all those fronts. Jerry Revich – Goldman Sachs: Charlie, can you please talk about some of the other foreign military opportunities that are on your radar screen and if you have any interest in competing for the ECV2 competition.

Charles L. Szews

Management

We prefer not to be too leading with our tune in terms of where we want to compete. It just feels better to us to work on an effort and at the appropriate time announce what we're going to do. Jerry Revich – Goldman Sachs: Lastly, Charlie, can you please talk about post the U.S. pullout of Iraq if you see potential for the FHTV sales to go into the Iraqi military beyond the pullout date.

Charles L. Szews

Management

Certainly, that's something that we're looking at as potential sales of our heavy fleet into the Iraqi Army. I do think that we're also going to see quite a few troops stay in Iraq and Afghanistan for some period of time. I mean you've heard lots of different comments about the difficulty the intent to pullout but ultimately we're going to still be supporting their region for some period of time.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from [Chris Waltzer] Robert W. Baird. [Chris Waltzer] Robert W. Baird: I wonder if you could talk a little bit about pricing and in the JLG business particularly how much of a headwind you're seeing right now.

Charles L. Szews

Management

Pricing, I suppose, is mixed. It's not easy, if it's a bit deal everyone is sharpening their pencil, our competition and ourselves, to be able to work on any big opportunity. We're fortunate we are a preferred supplier to many customers around the world because of the capability of our vehicles, as well as the aftermarket support. So we tend to have an opportunity to look at the end of the transaction and if it makes economic sense, we're there. [Chris Waltzer] Robert W. Baird: I guess what I'm trying to ask is if pricing were to stay where it is now and once the material costs completely roll through would you be at a net neutral impact for material costs there?

Charles L. Szews

Management

Our belief is that if material costs come down here over the next couple of quarters that this is going to be a net benefit to our earnings. We don't think that we're going to have give that back. We never got the price increase for the higher costs that we've had to bear so we don't see where we should have to give back any price because these costs have come down. [Chris Waltzer] Robert W. Baird: My follow up is you've got several defense opportunities I guess coming to fruition here competing in these, obviously, costs money and requires you to have some spare capacity. Assuming you're not successful on all of these projects, is there an opportunity to take some cost structure out of the defense business for next year?

Charles L. Szews

Management

Well, we think our volume in our defense business is going to be strong next year regardless of additional opportunities. [Chris Waltzer] Robert W. Baird: Does strong mean up year-over-year?

Charles L. Szews

Management

It's early to say but we were expecting a strong year again defensively. Give us another quarter or two I'd like to see the president's budget I'd like to see the supplemental get passed.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from Walter Liptak – Barrington Research. Walter Liptak – Barrington Research: I just wanted to get the timing straight, in the press release and the discussion today you've got a reduced outlook for 2009 primarily JLG I would think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but is this the same outlook that you took to the banks when you amended the credit or are you talking about, can you just talk about the timing?

David M. Sagehorn

Management

Walt, in regards to access I think our outlook compared to what we went to the bank with is lower, but we do have a much stronger outlook on our defense segment since that time and I think our outlook is even stronger overall in our fire and emergency business. We've also implemented additional cost reduction since we went to the bank, so there's a number of plusses and minuses here. Walter Liptak – Barrington Research: Okay and the covenants do look tight. I wonder was it prohibitively expensive to get them, I mean what went on in the discussions to get to the covenants that you've got now.

David M. Sagehorn

Management

A lot of discussions but overall, as we said in the prepared remarks, the time we went if you'll recall we started discussion in early January and it wasn't a real conducive time to be having those discussions. There is cushion built into the covenants, but it's not a situation where you can just get the agreement signed, put it in a drawer and forget about it. We do have to be diligent, look at it, which we're doing, do whatever we can, make sure we're in on all the deals to get sales, make sure we're managing our costs effectively and make sure that we're driving debt reduction. And that's what we're committed to every day when we come into work. Walter Liptak – Barrington Research: We're getting pretty late in the call so I wonder if you'd let me do one follow up, which is [Andy Ho] could you talk a little bit about his background. Has he worked on MRAP previously?

Charles L. Szews

Management

[Andy] did not. [Andy] comes to us from [BAE] where he worked in [inaudible].

Robert G. Bohn

Management

Operator, we'll go two more questions.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from Charlie Brady – BMO Capital Markets. Charles Brady – BMO Capital Markets: Bob and Charlie, with respect to the interest expense again, just help me understand you've got it looks like $1.2 billion or so on a swap, correct, at LIBOR plus 5 something?

David M. Sagehorn

Management

Yes. Charles Brady – BMO Capital Markets: That is constant through the end of '09, correct, before it steps down?

David M. Sagehorn

Management

Yes, it steps down in December, Charlie. Charles Brady – BMO Capital Markets: And then the rest would be at this new revived rate via the covenant amendment, correct, we'd all be at that rate essentially?

David M. Sagehorn

Management

Essentially, yes.

Robert G. Bohn

Management

Charlie, its LIBOR plus 6 so LIBOR was 5.1 at the time when the swap was done. Charles Brady – BMO Capital Markets: So, you've got $1.2 billion at about 11 something, roughly.

David M. Sagehorn

Management

Yes Charles Brady – BMO Capital Markets: Just a follow-up, can you give us an order of magnitude on the commercial segment on the refuse business and the concrete mixers sort of where those orders stand in terms of order of magnitude, how much they're down.

David M. Sagehorn

Management

From the peak they're down…

Charles L. Szews

Management

Concrete placement is down 90%, 95% from the peak, which would have been two or three years ago. So that's how difficult it is on a relative basis year-over-year it's not as big a percentage, obviously, but if you go back to peak in 2007 we're looking at a 90%, 95% downturn in concrete mixers. In terms of refuse collection vehicles domestically, if you look at full fiscal year over full fiscal year it's flattish right now.

David M. Sagehorn

Management

Yes, flattish to down maybe slightly.

Operator

Operator

Your final question comes from George Gaspar – Robert W. Baird. George Gaspar – Robert W. Baird: On the outlook on short-term and having your equity at $72 million range $73 million range currently, based on how you view the short-term with the potential that that could go lower, assuming losses in the next couple of quarters at least, and getting back to the covenants discussion, a sharp decline and shareholder equity is that going to cause further variables in terms of the covenants requirement on the interest side of your agreements.

David M. Sagehorn

Management

No, that has no impact at all on anything within the credit agreement. George Gaspar – Robert W. Baird: Secondly, on this new suspension system for MRAP that you're going to be delivering basically, as you mentioned, for Force Protection units, is that delivery underway?

Robert G. Bohn

Management

Delivery is immanent, let's put it that way, to start the contract at a lower rate and then it starts to ramp up. And to say new, it's not really new. We have this independent suspension system operating under over 10,000 medium tactical vehicle replacement vehicles for the U.S. Marine Corps. We have it under the logistic vehicle system replacement for the U.S. Marine Corps. We're now putting it under the Palletized Load System for the U.S. Army. We have it under Pierce fire trucks here [inaudible] fire rescue and firefighting vehicles. It is well tested. It has been tested by the Department of Defense by over 400,000 miles, much of which was to a 70% off-road mobility requirement. So, this is a very, very robust endurable system. George Gaspar – Robert W. Baird: So, basically what you're saying is that the delivery to Force Protection is very similar in nature to what you have been producing and there's no variables on it.

Charles L, Szews

Analyst

The only variables would be that the way it mounts the vehicle, the mounting brackets and things like that are going to change a little bit because of the shape of the vehicle, but those are minor. The U.S. Department of Defense has tested the vehicles with the new mounting brackets to make sure that it's going to operate the way it's intended. And we can tell you that it's improvement in the vehicles is very impressive.

Robert G. Bohn

Management

In closing, our big four JLG, our defense business, our McNeilus and our Pierce are just great franchise businesses and led by very strong and very capable presidents. We're going to continue to focus on new products for our customers that they desire and value, even during these difficult times. And continue to exceed our customer's expectations and service and reliability of our products because we simply build the best products in the world and have the best distribution and the best service network. We will continue to manage our cost as you have seen. We've got opportunities to continue to reduce our inventories that Dave and Charlie talked about and we are absolutely focused on cash flow and we will get through this recession and be a much better, much stronger company whenever we get out of it. Thanks a lot for your interest. Have a great day.

Operator

Operator

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.