Earnings Labs

Mechanics Bank (MCHB)

Q1 2016 Earnings Call· Tue, Apr 26, 2016

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good day and welcome to the HomeStreet First Quarter 2016 Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in a listen-only mode. [Operator Instructions] After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. [Operator Instructions] Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Mark Mason, Chairman, President and CEO. Please go ahead.

Mark Mason

Analyst · FBR Company. Please go ahead

Hello and thank you for joining us for our first quarter 2016 earnings call. Before we begin, I'd like to remind you that our earnings release was furnished this morning to the SEC on Form 8-K and is available on our Web site at ir.homestreet.com. In addition, a recording of this call will be available today at the same address. On today's call, we will make some forward-looking statements. Any statement that isn't a description of historical fact is probably forward-looking and is subject to many risks and uncertainties. Our actual performance may fall short of our expectations or we may take actions different from those we currently anticipate. Those factors include conditions affecting the mortgage markets such as changes in interest rates that affect the demand for our mortgages, the actions of our regulators, our ability to meet our internal operating targets and forecasts, and economic conditions that affect our net interest margins. Other factors that may cause actual results to differ from our expectations or that may cause us to deviate from our current plans are detailed in our SEC filings, including our quarterly reports on Form 10-Q and our Annual Report on Form 10-K for 2015, as well as our various other SEC reports. Additionally, information on any non-GAAP financial measures referenced in today's call, including a reconciliation of those measures to GAAP measures, may be found in our SEC filings and in the earnings release available on our Web site. Please refer to our earnings release for a more detailed discussion of our financial condition and results of operations. Joining me today is our Senior Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Melba Bartels. In just a moment, Melba will present our financial results, but first I'd like to give a brief update on our recent…

Melba Bartels

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

Thank you, Mark, and good morning everyone. I'll first talk about our consolidated results and then provide detail on each of our segments. First quarter consolidated net income was 6.4 million or $0.27 per diluted share, compared with 8.7 million or $0.39 per diluted share for the prior quarter. The decrease in net income from the prior quarter was primarily due to the merger-related costs from the Orange County Business Bank acquisition. Excluding after-tax merger-related items core net income for the first quarter was 9.8 million or $0.41 per diluted share compared to 8.8 million or $0.39 per diluted share in the fourth quarter. This increase in core net income was primarily due to higher net gain on mortgage origination and sale activities partly offset by higher salaries and related costs. Net interest income was 40.7 million in the first quarter compared with 39.7 million in the fourth quarter of 2015. The increase was primarily due to the growth in average interest-earning assets specifically at 278.8 million for 8.9% increase in average loans held for investment. Our net interest margin was 3.55%, a decrease of 6 basis points from the fourth quarter half of which was due to the impact of purchase discounts and premiums from acquired loans and deposits with the remainder due to an increase in the cost of interest-bearing liabilities offset somewhat by an increase in non-interest bearing liabilities. While the Federal Reserve increased short-term rates in December, longer term rates have fallen since then placing pressure on our net interest margin. Non-interest income increased 6.3 million or 9.6% from the fourth quarter due primarily to higher net gain on loan origination sale activities offset somewhat by a decrease in mortgage servicing income. Net gain on mortgage loan origination and sale activities increased 14.6 million from the…

Mark Mason

Analyst · FBR Company. Please go ahead

I’d like to now discuss the national and regional economies as they influence our business today. First, I’d like to remind everyone that we’re fortunate to operate in some of the most attractive market areas in the United States. Strategically we’re focused on the major markets in the Western United States, which today enjoy lower employment and substantially higher rates of population growth, job creation, commercial and residential construction and real estate value appreciation than the remainder of the country. Most recent Mortgage Bankers Association monthly forecast projects total loan originations to decrease 4.4% this year over the past year, a slight upward revision from its prior quarter forecast of 7.1% decrease. However, our focus has always been on the purchase market. The Mortgage Bankers Association forecasts that purchased mortgage origination are projected to increase 10% this year over last year while refinancing mortgages are projected to decline by 22%. Despite the increase in short-term interest rates by the Federal Reserve in December, mortgage rates have fallen and continue near historic lows, and nationally purchases are expected to comprise 62% of loan volume this year. Housing starts for this year are expected to be up 10.9% over 2015 levels. During the first quarter, purchasers comprised 53% of originations nationally and 49% originations in the Pacific Northwest. HomeStreet continues to perform at levels above the national and regional averages with purchasers accounting for 62% of our closed loans and 59% of our interest rate lock and forward sale commitments in the quarter. Our applications for purchase mortgages have increased 55% during the first quarter from 629 million in January to 975 million in March. The pace of housing permits has doubled nationally since 2009 while the pace in Washington is up 2.5 times and California is up 3 times since that…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Paul Miller of FBR Company. Please go ahead.

Paul Miller

Analyst · FBR Company. Please go ahead

On the OCBB acquisition right that closed in the quarter what type of cost saves and headcount can we expect to come out over the next quarter or two from that acquisition?

Mark Mason

Analyst · FBR Company. Please go ahead

We carried approximately $700,000 of additional cost in the first quarter that is going to come out completely in the second quarter fully annualized, that's a little more than 700,000 because there was only two or three months so were expecting something closer to about a million dollars a quarter going forward. In terms of headcount I think that's in the 8 to 10 range, but there is also technology cost and other services that are duplicate that are being eliminated during the quarter.

Paul Miller

Analyst · FBR Company. Please go ahead

And on your -- and you opened up six branches in the quarter that definitely adds the headcount what is your plan for this year -- I mean do you have -- what are your long-term plans on opening up branches over the next year or two?

Mark Mason

Analyst · FBR Company. Please go ahead

I would expect a minimum of one branch a quarter depending upon the pace of our permitting and been opportunistic we have purchased some branches and deposits, that number is likely higher. This year it will be slightly higher because of the pattern that one we at leased and identified facilities and when those facilities get permitted and built out and so on so I would expect this year for our branch openings to be somewhere between six and seven on the retail side.

Paul Miller

Analyst · FBR Company. Please go ahead

And then what geographies are you putting them in? Are you putting them all in Seattle or you opening a lot up and you are down now in Orange County, San Diego I mean where exactly you are opening up the branches?

Mark Mason

Analyst · FBR Company. Please go ahead

I would expect to see them both in Southern California and in the greater Seattle area we still have many submarkets in greater Seattle and [Indiscernible] for that matter that we would like to be in, where that pacing has sort of been established. In Southern California we are taking the opportunity to work with Kaiser Permanente to identify locations both where we have existing customers that may not be served by physical branch and in that regard we have some 38 soon to be 48 ATMs in Kaiser Permanente locations many of which are not served by physical branch and so like the two branch opening this quarter in Southern California where they are taking the opportunity to enter a new markets where we would like to have a full service banking presence but have sort of the tailwind of a built-in customer base from the consumer group at Kaiser Permanente. This strategy has really been working for us if you look at the deposit growth trend over the last several quarters it has been very positive on the retail side and in fact our new or de novo retail branches that we have opened since 2012 are growing at about three times the pace of the overall bank right now. So, we’re pretty happy with the strategy at this point.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Jacque Chimera of KBW. Please go ahead.

Jacque Chimera

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

I wonder, Melba if you might have where the individual line items for the M&A cost came from, just in terms of maybe what was in compensation and occupancy and other items like that?

Melba Bartels

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

I can provide that to you Jacque. In terms of the details it's primarily in salary and related expenses as well as in legal and consulting expenses.

Mark Mason

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

We can provide you [multiple speakers].

Melba Bartels

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

We can provide the specifics.

Jacque Chimera

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

And Mark what are you plans for Dallas?

Mark Mason

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

Long-term, all we have done is open a commercial real estate lending office there. Dallas is in our strategy, Dallas I mean the group of the state of Texas is in our strategy long-term. As the Washington State-chartered financial institution, we’re subject to Washington State revenue base tax, a business and occupancy tax, under which we get a first mortgage deduction, which is pretty valuable to us. It’s worth about $2 million of tax per year. For so long as we operate only in 10 states or less, it's an interesting law here that protects the local and state banks. So we have identified 10 states that we expect to do business in long-term and Texas is included in that 10 state total. We hope to be in the mortgage business and the banking business in Texas on a comprehensive basis at some point today though we just have a commercial real estate lending office.

Jacque Chimera

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

So at some point in the future might you look to M&A similar to what you did with Simplicity to help extend your presence there?

Mark Mason

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

Yes.

Jacque Chimera

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

And what is your 10 states that you’d like to be in?

Mark Mason

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

Well, today we do business physically and obviously the Hawaiian Islands, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, California and now Texas.

Jacque Chimera

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

I meant -- you said the Texas is your ninth state so I am just wondering if you’re willing to share what the 10 states that you’re looking to?

Mark Mason

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

Well, it could be Nevada, it could be Alaska.

Jacque Chimera

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

So open for whatever presents itself to you?

Mark Mason

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

Yes.

Jacque Chimera

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

And then can you provide an update on -- you gave great color last quarter on the heat maps that you look at in terms of what’s going on in your economies and difference within those micro economies and what you’re watching? And just kind of what you’re seeing if there has been any change from last quarter?

Mark Mason

Analyst · KBW. Please go ahead

Sure, we do watch very closely. When you do the amount of complete real estate related lending that we do, and the amount of construction lending in particular that we do, we have to pay very close attention to the balance of supply and demand in these markets. The direction of rental rates absorption, velocity, cap rate movement, all these things that have a bearing on our collateral and getting repaid timely. And as I mentioned earlier, we operate in the best markets in the United States. And we focus on the primary markets or the strong secondary markets to lend in. So those markets today continue to be characterized as having inventory shortages of literally all property types today, not simply single family housing, new and used inventories, those inventories range from a partial month to less than three months in all of our markets, rental, availability. While there has been tremendous new construction of multifamily housing in all of these markets, there continues to be shortages, because of job growth and migration and now office shortage. We’ve been waiting to see the office market solidify. The office vacancy in the City of Seattle is down to 8%, that was well over 20% at the height of the recession. You see similar deficits of available office in the major markets in Portland, The Bay Area of California and in the major markets in California as well. We now see for the first time speculative construction in new high-rise offices not just here in Seattle, but there are notable projects in San Francisco and California and Portland as well. So our markets are characterized in the real estate areas by shortages and deficits of demand to supply. Job growth continues to be strong, I think we quoted some of those numbers earlier. In our line of site, all of the early warning indicators that we follow are stable-to-improving, so we feel quite good about the risk that we underwrite every day in lending. I hope that helps.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Ryan Zacharia of Jacobs Asset Management. Please go ahead.

Ryan Zacharia

Analyst · Jacobs Asset Management. Please go ahead

Marks, thanks for taking the question, just helps me understand a little bit the profitability of mortgage origination excluding servicing, it looks like the origination piece kind of broke even this quarter and that was with the favorable lock versus closed dynamics, so can just maybe provide a little bit color on that?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Jacobs Asset Management. Please go ahead

We did better than breakeven for the quarter. I Think that if you bear with me for a second, I can give you a view of origination only profitability.

Ryan Zacharia

Analyst · Jacobs Asset Management. Please go ahead

Also the servicing total was 7.3 million between the core servicing income and the net gain on the servicing and hedges and the profitability of the segment on a pretax basis was 7.4 million for the entire segment?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Jacobs Asset Management. Please go ahead

Right so origination for the segment earned pretax 3.4 million.

Ryan Zacharia

Analyst · Jacobs Asset Management. Please go ahead

I am not sure I understand that, so the pretax income in the mortgage banking segment was $7.4 million doesn't that include the servicing income?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Jacobs Asset Management. Please go ahead

It does, so servicing and pretax for the quarter was about 3.9 million roughly and the balance was origination.

Melba Bartels

Analyst · Jacobs Asset Management. Please go ahead

So when you're looking at the mortgage servicing income, if you're looking at page 28 on the earnings release that is just the income compliance.

Mark Mason

Analyst · Jacobs Asset Management. Please go ahead

That's just revenue right.

Melba Bartels

Analyst · Jacobs Asset Management. Please go ahead

Right, that's just revenue that isn't net income or free tax income.

Ryan Zacharia

Analyst · Jacobs Asset Management. Please go ahead

The offset to that is being your cost to service which is over $3.5 million?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Jacobs Asset Management. Please go ahead

No direct cost are about 2.5 million, but we have corporate allocations. So we fully allocate and absorb each business unit.

Ryan Zacharia

Analyst · Jacobs Asset Management. Please go ahead

Yes, I typically see with the amortization reflecting the cost to service because your MSRs are held net of the servicing cost, but that answers the question.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Jeff Rulis of D. A. Davidson. Please go ahead.

Jeff Rulis

Analyst · D. A. Davidson. Please go ahead

Mark you've touched on a little of this on your economic discussion, but more specifically on the multifamily segment you've seen some operators in the region selling a lot of that production and a lot of it from a risk management standpoint. I guess if you could maybe outlined what your thoughts on that segment in terms of credit quality outlook and if you're seeing strain within that and granted that could be regional and I'd be interested to hear that color, but just thoughts on the multifamily segment in general?

Mark Mason

Analyst · D. A. Davidson. Please go ahead

Sure, in our markets and I have qualify everything with that caveat. The performance of the collateral is just amazingly good. Right, when we look at the actual build out and achievement of brands versus performance in multifamily construction. They're typically 10% to 15% of above pro forma rents, the absorption typically 50% to 60% of the pro forma absorption just as a generalization. In terms of availability I think I commented earlier there still is a deficit of inventory to demand. From our own risk management, so that's collateral performance and that's primary and strong secondary markets to right so when we’re talking about performance its core Seattle, core Portland, strong markets next to these, these markets are characterize by growing employment falling unemployment, right all the things that you would expect to contribute to that performance. In terms of our balance sheet risk management we have target diversification by not only loan types but collateral types as well multifamily we have always had a larger allocation to then other asset types because of its long-term performance and so we will always carry to somewhat higher balance of either construction or permanent lending having said that our origination volume and origination capability far out strips our ability ultimately to hold a 100% of our production and so you will see us this year selling larger proportion of the production mostly centered in the small balance production that our operation previously called HomeStreet Commercial Capital generates we expect to sell about two-thirds actually of that small balance production this year either into the secondary market or potentially going forward through securitization.

Jeff Rulis

Analyst · D. A. Davidson. Please go ahead

Okay thanks Mark for that color and then maybe a less dynamic question on the just a merger of costs. I think you targeted 6.8 and you recognized 5.2 in the quarters, are you guys are ahead of plan or would you recognize that balance next quarter what kind of where you at there?

Melba Bartels

Analyst · D. A. Davidson. Please go ahead

We expect that we will recognized the majority of them in the first quarter and so we actually outperformed our expectations.

Mark Mason

Analyst · D. A. Davidson. Please go ahead

Okay, so what we have left $200,000 maybe, second quarter. Something small.

Melba Bartels

Analyst · D. A. Davidson. Please go ahead

Very small.

Jeff Rulis

Analyst · D. A. Davidson. Please go ahead

Okay, great. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Tim O'Brien of Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead.

Tim O'Brien

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

Hey mark you mention the kind of the targeted outlook for net interest margin through the remainder of the year. Did you say 340 to 345?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

Yes.

Tim O'Brien

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

Okay, thanks. And do you have a kind of targeted goal for deposit growth through the end of the year?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

We do internally I mean I think it's safe to assume that given our guidance on loan growth that means to be supported primarily with deposit growth. Right, I mean we are like around a 100% loan to deposits and we don’t intend to go too far over that right so it's important we grow our deposits consistent with our loan growth.

Tim O'Brien

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

Makes sense to me. And what you did this quarter in terms of organic deposit growth I saw CDs were up but looks like a 100 million maybe on an average basis though and the cost there was a little bit higher and I think that kind of played in that overall cost to deposits. So what's the strategy can you kind of dig in a little bit as far as what you needed to this quarter and what you might continue to do here going forward with regard to put adding time deposits perhaps or where is the best opportunity to find the most attractive sort of kind of funding that you want and need to support balance sheet growth.

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

Well, obviously we have to be focused on funding right when you look at our strategy for growth part of that funding strategy will have to be made up with time deposits we are seeking to keep that composition from rising much though that assumes it has the total growth the absolute total with time deposits as well will grow. More importantly though our branch opening activity and retail strategy along with our commercial banking strategy is expected to grow the lion share of the deposits going forward. We may add to that with acquisitions we have in the past of branches and deposits and that’s an opportunistic activity. Obviously, M&A can help that funding equation as well and we continue to look at deals that exist in the marketplaces in which we’re interested. And so, I would expect that that -- the answer to that lies both in organic growth and in M&A.

Tim O'Brien

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

So looking at the end of quarter balances on a linked quarter basis, it looks like CDs were out -- were 732 at the end of ’15 and 901 at the end of first quarter. Were the CD additions this quarter, was that predominantly retail that you’ve any brokered CDs or?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

It was, there was a retail component, there was -- I’m going to go with what I’d call it well it is an institutional component. And there is an institution of peer to peer market for CDs that was a substantial part and then about a 100 million of that was brokered.

Tim O'Brien

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

And then did you guys purchase any commercial real estate loans this quarter? Or was it all in house originated?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

It's all in house directly originated. We are not --.

Tim O'Brien

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

[Multiple speakers] any business obviously.

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

I’m sorry, what?

Tim O'Brien

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

Besides the Orange County Business Bank purchase that is, but --.

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

That’s right, I was excluding that. Yes, our strategy does not include nor need secondary market purchases of any loan type.

Tim O'Brien

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

And no one intent than to use next year at some point to get involved there, it's all going to be in house generated?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

It will be, but let me say about syndicated loans. At some point, we will have some syndicated lending activity. To-date I think, now that I think about we did do one small syndicated participation and I think that will be operated in this [indiscernible] when really attractive deals come across the valve, our business is primarily direct to the customers.

Tim O'Brien

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

And out of curiosity, the loans production that you’d like to see take place out of the new Dallas office, I mean essentially what’s the niche you’re going after there?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

So that’s purely commercial real estate, permanent commercial real estate lending and primarily multifamily.

Tim O'Brien

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

Did you hire somebody local and build the office around that? Is that how that --?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill and Partners. Please go ahead

It's a local originator, right, but local originator but with the western states book of business.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Tim Coffey of FIG Partners. Please go ahead.

Tim Coffey

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

I want to talk about the efficiency ratios and the different business units. So look at the commercial and consumer banking segments against the backdrop of additional branch expansions already and those you have planned. How should we think about the core efficiency ratio?

Mark Mason

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

Thank you for asking that. I’ve been beating up my internal people about how we report. If you look at our core efficiency ratios, I think we quoted it.

Melba Bartels

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

It's on page 17 on the earnings release.

Mark Mason

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

So this ratio excludes M&A related expenses and so it is more core there are some other non-recurring things even things like intangibles amortization that other people do not include in their calculation of operating efficiency that we still do actually. We’re expecting this ratio, the core ratio, to fall to the low 60% range by the fourth quarter of this year, mid to low 60%.

Melba Bartels

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

Yes. So keep in mind in this quarter we had the overhang still from the remaining OCBB expenses that we will ring out, I should say that probably in first quarter relative to this quarter that will come. We also had five new office opened in the quarter so that impact it.

Mark Mason

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

And addition FICO expenses.

Melba Bartels

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

And additional FICO expenses, now you will see in the second quarter obviously the full quarter impact of some of those additional offices from the first quarter. But as Mark mentioned as we move throughout the course of the year, we anticipate the efficiency ratio improving quite a bit.

Tim Coffey

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

And then so the revenue side of that efficiency ratio just going to be on balance sheet growth rate since you?

Mark Mason

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

Right. No, I think that back. The other significant item in the quarter was really the absence of any material loans sales or securities gain, right. So if you look at the fourth quarter as an example, we had eight point some billion dollars of non-interest income most of which $7 million or so which was related to sales of Fannie Mae DUS loan or SBA loans. We had very little of that activity in the first quarter, but we expect to have a substantial amount of that activities for the remainder of the year. So you have two affects both a change in operating expenses and a pretty substantial increase in revenue, driving that change that expected changes in operating efficiency ratio.

Tim Coffey

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

Okay, are there any plans branch consolidations on the consumer or commercial banking side?

Mark Mason

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

Consolidations, no, I mean we have not -- we don't expect acquire any that would be consolidatable and those open are in new markets.

Tim Coffey

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

Okay so kind of the run rate for expenses on the commercial and consumer side as expected to go up then?

Mark Mason

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

It will but not as quickly as revenue, right. So expect that operating leverage to not only improve earnings but the ratios related to them like the operating efficiency.

Tim Coffey

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

And speaking of the loan sales, do you have any expectations for loan sales this year out of that CRE [ph] division?

Mark Mason

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

Yes, we're expecting somewhere in excess of $200 million.

Tim Coffey

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

What are the prevailing premiums on those or gain on sales for those?

Mark Mason

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

Obviously depends on the market, market timing and when we've seen premiums run from let's say the 2 percent to 3 plus percent.

Tim Coffey

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

And then my last question on the net interest margin, how much of that say I guess decline from here is the result of higher cost of deposits?

Melba Bartels

Analyst · FIG Partners. Please go ahead

So when you look at our net interest income sensitivity, we do see that we have more liabilities re-funding and re-pricing in zero the three months and we do assets, so a number of that is our federal home loan bank advances re-pricing and then the remainder would be to higher cost of deposits.

Operator

Operator

And we have a follow-up from Tim O'Brien of Sandler O'Neill & Partners. Please go ahead.

Tim O'Brien

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners. Please go ahead

Just real quickly on the Fannie Mae DUS loans, Melba you've mentioned that first quarter was a lower water point for that what's the kind of range of revenue quarterly revenue you expect to see here and through the remainder of the year?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners. Please go ahead

That going to be -- it could be lumpy, when we first say right, the timing of not just the origination but the sale of the loan may not be really even.

Melba Bartels

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners. Please go ahead

Yes, I would say so Mark mentioned as well right the last quarter was a high water mark with respect to that non-interest income coming through that segment and the first quarter as a low water market. So I think it's fair and reasonable to take the average of the two quarters in terms of expectations going forward.

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners. Please go ahead

Right so this quarter that number was down in the sort of one point --.

Melba Bartels

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners. Please go ahead

So in total in addition to the DUS sales the other multifamily sales as well.

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners. Please go ahead

So depending upon the level of activity that number could range from $2 million to $5 million depending upon the quarter?

Tim O'Brien

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners. Please go ahead

Including multi?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill & Partners. Please go ahead

Including multi, right, so all and including SBA.

Operator

Operator

Next is a question from Bill Dezellem of Tieton Capital Management. Please go ahead.

Bill Dezellem

Analyst · Tieton Capital Management. Please go ahead

A couple of questions first of all relative to your DUS sales are been down in the first quarter versus the fourth quarter and having virtually none this quarter, can you tell us why that was and if it's pricing or something else going on?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Tieton Capital Management. Please go ahead

Sure. It's a little bit typical seasonality, the fourth quarter typically has a lot of activity loans that investors or buyers of property or people refinancing want to get concluded by yearend so there is always a rush to close as much of the pipeline as possible for customer purposes as well as our own. And typically in the first quarter there are not as many sale transactions, people are just starting the year and activities is seasonally slower and so we expect the remainder of the year to be more typical seasonally with higher activity. But the fourth quarter is always busier and the first quarter is typically smaller.

Bill Dezellem

Analyst · Tieton Capital Management. Please go ahead

And then secondarily what's the timing for when you anticipate your additional commercial expenses that you've been incurring here this quarter to turn into earnings accretive?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Tieton Capital Management. Please go ahead

So for the Orange County business bank acquisition we are still expecting that acquisition to be accretive this year some 3% we will have some transition expenses in the second quarter, but by the end of the second quarter all of the expense savings will have been realized and so from third quarter forward we should get the run rate we expect out of that acquisition.

Bill Dezellem

Analyst · Tieton Capital Management. Please go ahead

And then additional expenses that you've just -- people you've been hiring and it looks like that their cost was greater than the revenues that they generated here in the quarter and just wondering when you think that will all reverse?

Mark Mason

Analyst · Tieton Capital Management. Please go ahead

So with respect to de novo branch openings that occurs over a more linked the time frame right because it's related to the acquisition of deposits in the marketplace. I mean typically we expect branches to be breaking even depending on how you calculate the interest rate associated with deposits and about two years, fully I would say fully funded or fully grown I guess and about five years. Our branches have been running ahead of that number, typically, I think in all the two cases are well ahead of the deposit acquisition pace that we expect. So with respect to new branches that is that's the time frame. With respect to other positions that may relate to corporate infrastructure they may not be positions but they may have to be added as a consequence of our growth, so that what's adds are related to current growth in other areas that might be in compliance or legal or county finance some of these areas, human resources that ultimately becomes sort of size denominated. Our lending centers however are expected to be profitable within a couple of months of opening so any of our expansion expenses invested in new lending centers whether they’d be single family, home building or commercial real estate are expected to be profitable in a relatively short period of time.

Bill Dezellem

Analyst · Tieton Capital Management. Please go ahead

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

This concludes our question-and-answer-session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mark Mason for any closing remarks.

Mark Mason

Analyst · FBR Company. Please go ahead

Again we appreciate your patience, your attention this morning, all the great questions. We look forward to talking to you again next quarter. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.