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Ferrovial SE (FER)

Q4 2020 Earnings Call· Sun, Feb 28, 2021

$67.70

-0.03%

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Transcript

Rafael del Pino

Management

Thank you, Begoña. 2020 has been a difficult year with an unprecedented health crisis that has impacted all aspects of our lives. COVID-19 forced governments to impose mobility restrictions, travel bans and quarantines across the globe, which in turn led the economies closing down. In this scenario, we have seen our operations impacted, especially in terms of traffic levels in Toll roads and Airports, although whenever restrictions were lifted, we saw a quick recovery performance, especially in our toll roads in North America. We have taken measures to mitigate the COVID-19 impact through reduction in costs and CapEx plans at corporate and also at asset level. Although also impacted by COVID-19, our contracting business showed resilient performance. Production levels in Construction were strong; and EBIT margin reached 2.3%, which is much better than what we were initially expecting for the year. We were also able to generate a strong activity cash flow in the year, especially helped by improved working capital on the back of better collection terms of Construction and Services, the strong performance of Budimex and divestments that were completed. Ferrovial faced COVID-19 with a record high level of liquidity and a strong cash position. Throughout the year, we have strived to preserve and improve even further the liquidity position of the company issuing corporate bonds, drawing syndicated credit facilities issued through ECB pandemic emergency purchase program. We closed 2020 with €8 billion of available liquidity ex infrastructure; and €1.3 billion in available liquidity lines; net cash position ex infra at close to €2 billion, including discontinued activities. We are following our strategy, which is aligned with the Horizon 24 plan presented a year ago. We are refocusing on the development and operation of sustainable infrastructure with high concessional value, rotation of mature assets and increasing our exposure…

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Thank you, Rafael. And hello, everyone. A pleasure to present the 2020 financial results, a difficult year because of the pandemic, but we delivered on the things that we can control. Let me start again reminding you of our strategy. As you know, we develop and operate innovative, efficient and sustainable infrastructure while creating value for stakeholders. Our focus is on developing managed lanes in the U.S. We also develop and operate other high-quality toll roads and airports that contribute to our corporate portfolio. Our Construction division is not only a cash contributor but a key part of our strategy, as it helps us to develop complex infra projects. We have a target of 30% revenues coming from internal projects. These construction capabilities will also help us to develop concessional projects on electrification, water and mobility. Our geographical focus is on the U.S., but we also consider core geographies, other markets like Canada, Poland, Spain, U.K., Chile, Colombia or Peru. We have a strong pipeline of projects, mainly U.S. managed lanes but also other toll roads and yellow-field airports and even in water or electrification. Some of these projects may not become a reality, and others we may lose to competitors because we will maintain our financial discipline to get double-digit returns, but we will continue working to develop our portfolio with some of the best infra-assets in the industry. At Ferrovial, we look at the main global challenges and turn them into business opportunities, no doubt we can contribute to create a better world. We have a sustainability strategy we - which is fully aligned with our business strategy and in which we have been working for years. We are the first company to certify the impact of our strategy on the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals and define…

Rafael del Pino

Operator

Thank you, Ernesto. Well, as I said before, in the current situation, visibility remains limited and it is difficult to provide any guidance. This being said, we remain confident then, when we look ahead, that our assets have long duration, are located in diversified growth areas, have flexibility to adapt to changes in behavior patterns that may come and should play a key role in relieving capacity constraints in the region. Our own strategy is also clear, focusing on developing efficient, innovative and sustainable infrastructure that will create value for all our stakeholders. And we see clear opportunities ahead not only building on our competitive advantages but also having enough financial strength to reap attractive growth opportunities that we believe will come. Lastly here, looking at shareholder remuneration. The Board has approved 2 scrip dividends, which as reference would imply €0.20 and €0.313 per share. And we will continue with our share buyback program of up to €320 million or 22 million shares. So now we open the floor to questions. Thank you. Begoña? Begoña Morenés: Thank you very much, Rafael, Ignacio and Ernesto. The Q&A session will begin shortly. Please stay tuned. A - Begoña Morenés: So the first set of questions come from Alejandro Gil [ph] [indiscernible]. First of all, on tariffs proposal of the new Highway 413, what is Ferrovial's view of the possibility and its impact in the 407 ETR?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, thank you, Alejandro [ph]. And yes, I commented previously on the 413 that, as you saw, is very far from the congestion in the area; and also is very close to a green belt with not residential - a lot of residential business around that area. Because of that, what we consider is this - if this project goes ahead, that it will take time before they get environmental assessment approval; and then the construction, that it will not happen before 10, 15 years. You have to get the environmental approval, considering that it's a green belt. Our estimates at that time is that the impact on traffic for the 407 will be minimal because we are much closer to the congestion area. And we have the time savings that the 413 will not have. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The next question, also from Alejandro [ph], dividend to be collected, in terms of expectations for 2021 and 2022; and CapEx commitment in '21 and '22, referring to the 407 ETR. Ernesto López Mozo: Okay, thanks. So I mean we don't provide guidance for expectations of dividends in the 407 under the current situation. What we've always mentioned is that dividends in 2021 will have to be back loaded at the end of the year due to the natural evolution of the traffic, right? I mean remember that, in 2020, the pandemic hit more deeply in April - or mid-March through June, right? So that comparison would affect to the, let's say, ratios needed for the payment of dividends. So we expect dividends to be backloaded in the second half of the year, more at the end. Regarding the CapEx commitments: Well, the 407, you know that, on a regular basis invests close to CAD100 million in widenings and refurbishments. And we would expect something below that, but that should be the normal or running number here. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ernesto. The next question, also from Alejandro, dividend - apologies. Pipeline of new infrastructure projects, opportunities for Ferrovial in U.S. managed lanes, et cetera.

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

As I commented previously, for us, a relevant part of our strategy is to develop toll roads in the U.S. managed lanes, and it will continue to be the case. We have identified as part of the pipeline. And we include there managed lanes but also other toll roads in other markets, but the total amount is €8 billion of equity. It's a pipeline that is including unsolicited projects. We are not disclosing the places in which we are working yet, but the main focus is in the U.S. Of course, this is a pipeline that takes time, and some of these projects may not happen in the future. And some of them, I mean, will be a competitive bidding like the one in Maryland. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The next question, also from Alejandro: Could you update on the disposal process on Services?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Yes. As commented, we are proceeding with the sale of subsets. So everything is under sale right now in different processes. And as soon as we have some information that we closed an agreement with a buyer, we will communicate, but hopefully, we'll see some traction during this year 2021. We are working on all separate subsets and we'll communicate whenever we have information to share with you. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The last question from Alejandro refers to new businesses. There's media coverage regarding the interest in transmission lines in Chile, flying taxis venture in Florida, et cetera, et cetera. What would be the investment size in the new businesses?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Yes, as commented, as part of our strategy, we are interested in developing other infra assets. And we define there a pipeline that - around €0.5 billion, say, in transmission lines in general. This is mainly in Latin American markets. It could be Chile, Colombia, Peru or others. And we are working on them. Of course, we don't comment about any specific transaction or bidding process in which we are. Mobility: As you know, we are there in order to understand how the new infra is going to develop. And one of the things that is happening today is talking a lot about the EV tolls and vertiports. And what we are doing is trying to learn about the new infra that is going to be needed for these new type of mobility. Of course, this is a very limited investment that it will happen in several years' time, and what we are doing right now is learning. Of course, we have reached an agreement and was well communicated with Lilium; and exploring in Florida, a number of like vertiports there, but I think that location is important and that's why we are anticipating for a new infra that may be needed in the future. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The next set of questions come from Filipe Leite from CaixaBank BPI. "Can you give us an update on the situation of the Maryland managed lanes?"

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, yes. About Maryland, as you know, we are the largest developer, builder and operator of managed lanes in the U.S. with a proven expertise in these complex projects. The decision was communicated last week and in which there was defined another consortia as winner. We are - as a result of that announcement and result of the significant gap in the financial score of the bidders communicated to the public by the owner, we are in the process of analyzing the results and information provided in connection to the bid process. We have signed a confidentiality agreement, and unfortunately, I cannot comment further at this point in time, but I can assure you that we are very focused on continue developing managed lanes in the U.S. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. Lastly from Filipe: Do you expect dividends from infrastructure assets in 2021 and '22 to cover the required equity investments in the I-66?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, the CapEx investment in the I-66 next year is around €600 million, a figure close to that - in 2 years, no, yes. Sorry. So it will not happen only next year, but it's between this and the following year is around - we don't give any, of course, guidance about what is going to be the dividends. And the rationale was explained before by Ernesto in the case of 407 and similar and other places, but we don't give information about expected dividends and guidance about that. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The next set of questions come from Fernando Lafuente from Alantra Capital. On the 407 ETR, Schedule 22 scheme. If it were to apply for 2020, what would be the penalty that you would face?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, as commented right now, we are - pandemic is a force majeure clause as part of the contract. And at the same time, the spirit of that clause is related to congestion in the area, especially the 401, so that's why we didn't take any provision for Schedule 22 payments since beginning of the pandemic. In the future, of course, when it is over - and as you know, it's the way it works that this traffic is compared to certain target. And there is a penalty that you have to pay if you don't reach those targets, but the reference, as you know, is 2019, in which we paid less than CAD3 million with the traffic at that time. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The next question from Fernando, regarding 407 ETR tariffs. They were flat year-to-date, but given the difference in traffic mix, what are the average tariffs going to do in 2021? Are they growing, thanks to the traffic mix?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Last year - as you know, as commented previously, we increased tariffs in February last year. Since then, we have kept them flat. We have not announced an increase for 2021, but as you know, we have the flexibility to do what any point of time if the traffic recovers. With that price flat, of course, yes, it will depend on the timing of the traffic, traffic mix and other parameters, that the road - I mean that may change if it's peak or not peak or is a good section of the road and so on. That will have, as you know, different type of tariffs different time of the day with different type of vehicles. So we'll depend on that until we decide to change the tariffs. Begoña Morenés: Thank you very much, Ignacio. The next question, also from Fernando, and his last one, regarding Construction EBITDA and EBIT. It almost doubled at year-end versus the 9 months 2020 results. Can you explain why? Does it include any exceptionals, or is the performance sustainable going forward? In addition, what is the EBIT margin guidance for 2021?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

The guidance that we gave about that is 3.5% EBIT by year 2024, and this is what we are working for. And at the end, yes, of the quarter, I think we have a good performance, say, coming from Budimex. And especially from the real estate business. And I don't know if - Ernesto, do you want to comment something further? Ernesto López Mozo: Yes. Well, regarding the margins, the fourth quarter was very good for different reasons in all Construction. I can mention some of them. Well, the first one is that impact from COVID-19 were not really that material in the fourth quarter. I mean the cumulative for the year is close to €49 million. And in September, we were at €44 million. So very limited impact and very good production. Even though there were a lot of lockdowns, I mean, our sites continued producing very well. Then in Budimex it's true that the real estate business was doing very well and even had some release of provisions but clearly had a very good quarter. And also, we had in other regions some claims that were recognized and collected end of the year. So yes, a very good quarter. We cannot extrapolate, let's say, the margin for this quarter going forward. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio and Ernesto. The next set of questions come from Marcin Wojtal from Bank of America. What will be the dividend policy of NTE and LBJ managed lanes going forward? Will they distribute 100% of their free cash flow?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, the decision about dividends will be taken by the Board of the NTE and LBJ. And of course, it will be based on the traffic evolution and their expectations and also with the goal to keep investment grades in all the - both NTE and LBJ. And based on that, they will distribute the dividends. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. Also from Marcin: How much of the traffic in 407 ETR and U.S. managed lanes relates to daily commuting?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

We don't disclose information about that, but during the presentation today we gave some information about that usually users don't use it - very few use it more than 5 times a week. So very few are daily commuters but - that use regularly. So most people use three times a month or less. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. Lastly from Marcin: Should the grantor require the 407 ETR to make a payment based on Schedule 22 for 2020, is there any mechanism to appeal such a decision?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Yes, there is an appeal process that we can bring. And yes, it will be based, of course, on the contract, but yes, we can appeal to the decision. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The next set of questions come from Jenny Ping from Citigroup. "Can you tell us how the recent extreme weather has impacted mobility in Texas?"

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, it has been very, very sad, what happened in Texas with this winter storm and which was - impacted not only the traffic but also the power and water outage that affected so many people. And so many - there some people affected. I have to say that, yes, because of the winter storm, most of the lines of the - our main toll roads were closed. And we only rehabilitate 1 or 2 lanes, that they were cleaned during the winter storm. So it affected from the February 13 to 21, in which we closed the managed lanes. And also the general-purpose lanes was only 1 or 2 lanes that were in perfect condition for the traffic. So yes, we were affected by the winter storm during this period of time. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. Also from Jenny: Can you confirm if the recent accident in Texas highway on your tolled - was on your tolled assets? If so, can you give us more details of the closure of such an asset?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Yes. As commented previously about this exceptional winter storm, that it affected - car accidents but also power and water outage. There was a multiple collision in the NTE 3 project and, sadly, resulting in 6 fatalities and several people injured. Prior to the accident, NTE 35 West [indiscernible] in accordance with applicable standards, best practices; and continued to patrol and monitor the road conditions through the storm. In addition, at the time of the incident electronical variable signettes was advising drivers of the adverse weather condition and asking drivers to proceed with caution. And yes, we are cooperating with authorities' investigation, especially the NTSB. That is the one of charge of this investigation. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The next question comes from Robert Crimes from Insight. How keen were you to win Maryland phase 1? What were the main differences in the Ferrovial bid and that of winner Transurban?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, of course, I mean, this is - was a very relevant project for us. And as commented previously, we are the largest developer, builder and operator of managed lanes. So we put all our expertise, proven expertise, in these complex projects that - we think, that will deliver with - in an excellent way. Also as commented previously about, yes, on this, when the communication coming from the - to the public by the owner, we saw a significant gap in the financial score. And what we are now is in the process of analyzing these results and any information provided in connection to the bid process. Unfortunately, at this point of time, we cannot say more because of this confidentiality agreement that we signed, but we are, I mean, very open in the future to comment about it once we don't have this NDA in place or with any public information that could come from the owner in the following days. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The next set of questions come from José Arroyas from Santander. Will Ferrovial not participate in phase 2 of the Maryland traffic relief program?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, at this time, Maryland DOT selected the phase developer that is for phase 1. And they also will have a right to develop their second phase. So if they close and they reach commercial agreement, they will have a right to develop the following phase. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. Also from José: Ferrovial's holding company is very strongly capitalized now with net cash approaching €2 billion and further expected cash inflows in 2021 from planned sales of other assets. How should we think about Ferrovial using this cash in the medium and long term?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, the first priority will be to develop the pipeline that we have commented previously. We'll focus on developing managed lanes in the U.S. and toll roads, airports and other infra assets. So hopefully, we'll develop enough opportunities with that double-digit return that we require to our investments. And we'll allocate this money to develop this infrastructure. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. Next set of questions come from Nabil Ahmed from Barclays. First of all, you mentioned flat prices for 407 ETR. Could you please elaborate on Texas managed lane pricing strategy this year? Is it fair to assume modest or no increase initially and maybe the unwinding of the positive mix when traffic normalizes?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, in the case of the Dallas managed lanes and the pricing expectations, they're - first, you have to consider that we are ramping up some of these assets and also in - not only in traffic but also in terms of pricing, especially the NTE 35 West. And still also we have, say, opportunities at the NTE level and, of course, the I-77, of course. Also we have price flexibility. As commented, we may see some changes in traffic patterns, especially during the mid-day that we see more traffic than before. So there will be opportunities to take advantage of these traffic patterns to - with the price flexibility that we have. Also we have some increase - inflation increase in the soft cap. There may be, depending on the traffic, increases based on mandatory mode. And also, mixed traffic, that also could influence the evolution of tariffs in these managed lanes. So these are the things, but of course, it will depend on the traffic and the opportunities that we may have based always on the value that we can give to customers or time savings and reliability. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. Next question, also from Nabil. Could you please elaborate about the £600 million cash injection in Heathrow SP in the fourth quarter of the year? Would you expect to contribute more? Ernesto López Mozo: Yes. Thanks for the question, Nabil. Well, the first is I need to clear out where this money comes from. I mean Heathrow raised deeply subordinated debt, £750 million, above Heathrow Finance. That is holding above Heathrow SP. Okay, so we have 3 layers. This layer that is the most subordinated, £750 million were raised in the market. And this was subsequently injected into Heathrow Finance and Heathrow SP. So the…

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

So this U.S. is most of this €8 billion equity. So we are working mainly to develop mainly managed lanes in the U.S., also in other the - toll roads, that - the traffic risks that there could be in the U.S., but it's mainly managed lanes. Some of the projects, most of them, are unsolicited that we are working with DOTs. We are including also other projects but smaller ones in Chile, Peru and Colombia, compared to that. We don't disclose further information for the time being because, I mean, this - we don't want to give information to competitors about which projects we are working, but you can assume that most of it is related to the U.S. and most of it to managed lanes. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The next set of question come from Rushil Paiva from Stifel Europe. Question number one, "Do you have an estimate of where you think the Construction division's underlying EBIT margin currently sits? And do you have a target margin for 2021?" Part of this has already been answered before. Additionally, is the 2024 EBIT margin of 3.5% still maintained?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Yes, it is maintained. As commented previously, our target is to reach the 3.5% margin by 2024. We don't disclose internal targets for 2021. Yes, we'll have them, but we are not disclosing it. But we are working hard to reach this 3.5% by 2024. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The next question, also from Rushil: Are you able to provide an update on motorway traffic across the U.S. managed lanes business and 407 ETR in the year-to-date, especially as the risk from COVID-19 in the United States seems to be slowing in the past few weeks?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, as commented during the presentation, in the 407 is still at - Toronto area is still at - is until area - stay-at-home order. So the traffic has been affected since the end of December because of that but not at the levels that we saw in April that were 80% below previous year. It's much better than at that period of time even with a similar lockdown. Of course, in the following weeks or months, we'll see, hopefully, an improvement with the vaccination and the reduction of, like, new positives in the area and some of the neighborhoods not around top hill but they are starting to relax some of this lockdown. So we expect that it will improve. In the case of Texas, they are very fast with the vaccination and, as you know, I mean, in some cases 12% or above. And they are, I mean, moving very fast. And for the time being, because of Christmas and the effect of Thanksgiving, they maintained still the same mobility restrictions, but we should expect that in the following months we'll see an improvement because of the vaccination reaching certain levels. And the new, I mean, level of, like, positives will be much lower than before. We have been affected, as commented previously, by the winter storm and especially this almost a week in which managed lanes were not operating because of the extreme weather conditions. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The next question come from Samson Jayes from Ananda Asset Management. Would you consider divesting any further infrastructure assets?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, our strategy is to develop infra assets. And at the same time, as part of that strategy is to rotate them when - once they are mature. So I think that the same way that we did with Ausol; or last year with Norte Litoral, for instance, or Algarve. I mean, if some assets are mature and they have more value for a third party than to us, we'll do it. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. Next set of questions come from Tobias Woerner from Stifel Europe. "Do you have railway construction capability in the U.S. given that this is an area of interest for Joe Biden? Is there also an opportunity for railway concessions? And if so, would you be interested?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Yes, we will be interested in rail opportunities in the areas in which we have construction capabilities in the U.S. We are doing today, construction, the high-speed rail in California, one of the sections. We are building them today. So yes, we have - we are doing metros, and there are metros in many other places. So yes, we have real capabilities that, if there are concession, we will - we are very open to analyze but only restricted to the places where we have construction capabilities. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. Also from Tobias: How do you see the recovery for Heathrow in terms of profitability over the years? What things do we have to consider long-term effects of the crisis?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, as you know, Heathrow is our regulated assets. There will be a phase 7 period in which we are considering as part of the business plan that it will take a long period of time to recover the level of traffic that we had before, but we'll recover. And we expect to have a return for the investment that we have made during this period of time based on the traffic that we are forecasting. So even if we see that there may be an impact in the short term to recover the level of passengers, that will be included as part of the business plan and also as part of the number of passengers and the returns that they are giving to the investment that we are taking there or we have taken there. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. Also from Tobias, "What about AGS? Do you need to insert capital here over and above the £25 million already committed?" Ernesto López Mozo: Okay. So here the £25 million committed, I mean, is what is expected in terms of liquidity needs maybe for this year with some recovery in traffic. What is true is that negotiations to extend the financing will take place. And then of course, this will be commercially sensitive. There could be a number of capital part of the refinancing discussions, but that is something that we will see a long time. In term of liquidity needs, it will be more or less enough. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ernesto. Lastly from Tobias: What impact could you see the EU next-generation recovery plan to have on your activities in Europe and Spain and Poland? When do you expect this to take place?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, we have presented several initiatives for these next years. And so we have - hopefully, we'll see some traction during this year, but it's a large amount for a stimulus. It's mainly related to things that could improve the sustainability, the digital and also the regional inclusion. So we will participate in parts of it and mainly related to - in Spain to residential buildings, improvement in some of the projects that there could be. So it's - could be a large pipeline, nothing concrete in the short term. We have presented several proposals. And let's see which of them we'll have the capabilities, and we can take value out of them, but there still is nothing concrete in the short term. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The next question comes from Nicolas Mora from Morgan Stanley: In terms of disposals, the bears will say you seem engulfed in a fire sale of assets. The bulls will say that you're building a large comfortable buffer in terms of liquidity. How should we understand the meaningful pickup in disposals at all the business levels?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, it is part of our strategy that we have defined before. So we are concentrating on developing and operating innovative, efficient and sustainable infrastructure. And the core business are related to toll roads, airports, construction and also other infra assets that we want to develop. So at the end, those that are not related like the Services division - so we are divesting. And also as commented previously, those that are mature and availabilities, that it has more value for a third party, like the type of Ausol's that we have financial institutions. They are taking them from much lower returns than they were - we are expecting from our investments. Well, we rotate them once they are mature, like availabilities. But I will say that all what we are doing is part of our strategy. And or; main value is related to developing infra assets, and those like services, we'll divest them. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The next set of questions come from Charles Maynadier from Kempen. What is the time line of the 9.5 billion pipeline described for Toll roads, Airports, electrification and water?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, this is the pipeline, I think, which we are working, I will say, for the next 3 years. Of course, as commented previously, maybe some of it will not happen, but things I think - which some of them we are bidding or preparing to bid and others in which we are still working, and we may see that this launch in the following months. Hopefully, I think that, as part of the recovery and with COVID, we'll see more traction with some of the projects. And hopefully, we see them transform into opportunities very soon. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. Also from Charles: Could you remind us what the rationale is to go into electrification and water opportunities compared to staying in transportation infrastructure? Could you share some color on the competitive landscape regarding this pipeline?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Yes. As you saw before, I mean, the main pipeline and things in which we are working are related to Toll roads and also Airports. And still the pipeline that we have related to electrification and water is not very large. It's less than 0.5 billion. We already have capabilities in - both in water and electrification. In the case of electrification, we have transmission lines in Chile. Also we have contractor capabilities. We are doing renewable energy, renewable projects. We are doing substations. We are doing concessional projects, energy efficiency also in Spain and other markets. So it's an area in which we feel comfortable. It will be just reduced to the countries in which we have defined as top tier and core. And there we have the capabilities to develop other infra assets that - I think, that it will be increasing in the future, that, the request for this type of projects. Now in the case of water, we have 2 companies, Cadagua, Pepper Lawson in the U.S. And we do contracting work, but also, we do some maintenance. And we have capabilities also to do concessional works in water. Some of this pipeline will take longer time, but there are some projects that - it may happen at some point of time, especially now with COVID, that municipalities and the different administrations will need more from private investors in order to develop some of the infrastructure that is very well needed. So we have capabilities in these areas. And we want to grow them if we'll see that they are requesting for concessional projects. And we will do them if we see that they create value and we can get these double-digit returns. In some of the places, there are competitors, but I will say there similar number of competitors than the ones that we see in the transport business both in Toll roads and airport, not even in Airports. In the past, we used to have more competitions than in this infra electrification and water. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. Last question from Charles: Are you committed to keeping your stake in Budimex? Or can we expect a divestment at some point in the future?

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

No, we are comfortable with our position in Budimex. I think it is a key player in the Polish market. I see them more focused on developing infrastructure. They have very good capabilities, so we are very happy with our position in Budimex. Begoña Morenés: Thank you, Ignacio. The last question comes from Elodie Rall from JPMorgan. "When will you be in a position to revert to pre-crisis level of dividends?"

Ignacio Madridejos

Management

Well, regarding dividends, of course, we'll take the decisions by the Board. And it will be based on the forecasts that we'll have for the following years of investments that we may have another source of income. And based on that and the cash that we'll generate with a different business, we'll be taking the decision by the Board every year with the same policies that they will have until now. Begoña Morenés: There are no further questions.

Rafael del Pino

Operator

Okay, thank you very much for attending this 2020 results conference. And look forward to engaging with you again soon. Thank you very much. Good afternoon or good morning to wherever you are. Good evening. Bye.