Mark Casale
Analyst · Rick Shane with JPMorgan
No, it's a good question. And Rick, we've been studying this. So let's go back in time, right? Let's start with 1990, which is really the beginning of the modern day Fannie and Freddie. And let's just go with the last 35 years. If you take away the GFC, which it's hard to do, but just to stick with me here for a second, the average loss rate on Fannie and Freddie back loans is less than 1%. That, I believe, is actually -- so it's not this, "Oh my goodness, we have such a good run, when is it going to end?" This is it. This is the business. It's a great business. You're talking about, and again, and some of the things that caused the great financial crisis because you don't want to ignore that. And the reason we like the business, coming out of the crisis, you had the Dodd-Frank qualified mortgage rules. So 35% of the loans that were done during the crisis, they no longer qualify. They literally got the RIF-wrapped out of the industry. So that is now either going, it's going to either FHA or it's going to kind of non-QM or they're not being originated, which is the most case. A lot of those borrowers are ending up in single-family rental. It's a great outcome for them, right? So then all of a sudden then you add in the increased, I would say, sophistication of DU and LP at the GSEs, their quality control has gotten significantly better. I mean, over the last 15 years. So all of a sudden, the credit guardrails around our business are exceptional, and we don't see it changing. Unless there's something happens with GSE reform, and clearly, we look at that. But as long as the market is where it is today, this is a very narrow fairway. And so we don't see really credit changing that much. It's hard. I mean, actually, our credit for this -- the last 2 quarters, Rick, was the best FICO's we've had since we started the company. So -- and part of that's affordability, part of it is affordability, like just folks are having a harder time qualifying. But the credit quality in this business is exceptional. And just from a public policy standpoint, 65% of our borrowers are first-time homeowners. I mean, I was with a young guy last week who just got mortgage insurance through one of our clients. He's paying like $65 a month. You put 10% down. I mean you can't beat it. It's a great value to the customer, which you always want to have, right? The borrowers is our ultimate customer, and then I think the math for us. So I would say from -- and some of our longer-term investors kind of know this clearly, I would stop and one of our other analysts has always asked me, Mark, is this as good as it gets? Guys, It's been good for a long time. I mean -- and I don't really -- again, there's going to be some volatility Rick, quarter-to-quarter or year-to-year. Look, If unemployment goes up, we're probably going to pay some losses. But remember, we're kind of capped until we hit until we go through that mezz piece. So it's relatively well boxed. Hence, our confidence in paying the quarterly dividend and right now in terms of where we are returning capital to shareholders has been quite a shift the past 12 months, but part of it was we've just continued to accumulate cash and we've had this retain and invest mentality. We just haven't invested in anything. And so we look at it now and say the best investment we can make is in the company. And if we keep this pace up, Rick, every time you repurchase shares, our long-term owners, which include the senior management team, we own a little bit more of the company. And if I'm going to own a business, this is my favorite business. So we'll see. So sorry for the long-winded answer, but I want to again try to give some of the investors on the phone some context.