Earnings Labs

CVR Energy, Inc. (CVI)

Q3 2008 Earnings Call· Fri, Nov 7, 2008

$34.09

+4.41%

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Greetings and welcome to the CVR Energy Third Quarter Conference Call. At this time all participants are in a listen-only mode. A brief question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. [Operator Instructions]. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Mr. Stirling Pack, Vice President of Investor Relations for CVR Energy. Thank you Mr. Pack, you may begin.

Stirling Pack, Jr. - Vice President of Investor Relations

Analyst

Thank you Manny, good morning everyone. We appreciate your patients while we gather everyone on line. Prior to discussion of our 2008 third quarter results, we are required to make the following Safe Harbor statement. In accordance with federal securities laws the statements in this earnings call relating to matters that are not historical facts are forward-looking statements based on management's belief and assumptions using currently available information and expectations as of this date and are not guarantees of future performance and do involve certain risks and uncertainties including those filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. This presentation includes various non-GAAP financial measures. The disclosures related to such non-GAAP measures required by Regulation G can be located on our website at www.cvrenergy.com or on Form 8-K which we filed earlier today. Now we'll first hear from Mr. Jack Lipinski, our Chief Executive Officer. Jack? John "Jack" Lipinski - Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President: Okay thank you Stirling and thank you all for joining us this morning where we are going to report third quarter results. In the year we came near [indiscernible] unprecedented in terms of financial and commodity market volatility. Before moving into the reported quarterly result I'd like to take this opportunity to comment briefly on our two business segments. We are an independent refiner and marketer of high value transportation fuels and, through a limited partnership, a producer of ammonia and Urea Ammonium Nitrate solutions or UAN fertilizers. Industry positioning is key to understanding our reported results and future outlook. We have two businesses that compliment each other operationally but serve two different markets. With that said everyone is keenly aware that the refining industry has experienced unprecedented volatility in crude oil and refined product pricing. Long established relationships between oil prices and differentials, crack…

James T. Rens - Chief Financial Officer

Analyst · Jeff Dietert with Simmons & Company

Thank you Jack. As reported CVR Energy third quarter net income was $99.7 million or $1.16 per diluted share compared to $11.2 million or $0.13 per share pro forma for the third quarter of 2007. Gain losses on derivatives for the third quarter included unrealized gain from the cash flow swap net of taxes of $59.5 million or $0.69 per share compared to a gain of $54.2 million or $0.63 per share for the comparable period of 2007. Net income adjusted for the unrealized gains on the Cash Flow Swap reached $40.2 million or $0.47 per share for the third quarter of 2008 compared to a net loss of 43 million or $0.50 per share for the third quarter of 2007. Income for the third quarter of 2007 was negatively impacted by the flood that occurred in July of 2007. The quarterly results include realized losses on the cash flow swap of 33.8 million compared to a loss of 45.4 million for the same quarter in 2007. Financial results for the third quarter of 2008 were also negatively impacted by the climbing oil prices due to our first-in/first-out accounting method for inventory cost. Although our earnings are negatively impacted in the declining world market with the opposite impact and the rising crude oil market, it's important to note that under FIFO or LIFO cash flow is the same. With respect to FIFO our operating income was negatively impacted by FIFO losses of 59.3 million from the third quarter of 2008. In contrast we experienced a FICO gain of $22.6 million for the comparable period of 2007. This translates to an $81.9 million change in operating income over the comparable period due to the changing oil price environment. Consolidated operating income for the third quarter, which will be discussed in more…

Stanley A. Riemann - Chief Operating Officer

Analyst · Jeff Dietert with Simmons & Company

Thank you Jim. As Jim reported in the financial review our nitrogen fertilizer business benefited from strong demand for crop production. Agricultural demand is driven by food supply demand as well as increased use of bio fuels. We benefited not only from these overall market conditions but also from our use of low-cost petroleum coke as a feedstock in our dual current [ph] gasification process. Natural gas is a more typical feedstock for fertilizer productions. In order to understand the profitability of our nitrogen fertilizer business, one must understand the operating expense structure. The current gasification process resulted in a higher threat to fixed cost and a traditional natural gas producer but significantly lower feedstock cost. In addition, geographically our Midwest location provides prompt and direct rail access with freight advantage to our primary markets and minimized shipping costs. With respect to the 2008 quarterly results we reported ammonia production of 110,300 tons versus 75,900 tons for the third quarter of 2007. The third quarter of 2008 UAN production was 172,800 tons compared with 128,000 tons in 2007. Ammonia sales totaled 21,900 tons in the third quarter versus 24,700 tons in the 2007 period. UAN sales were 165,400 tons compared with 120,600 tons in the third quarter of 2007. The value of the refracted nitrogen fertilizer products is important also in understanding our results. Our plant generally upgraded to about 230 of it's ammonium production in the UAN as part of a historically carried accretive value for ammonia. It takes about 0.4 tones of ammonia depletes 1 tone of 32% UAN. The order book as of September 30, 2008 which extends to first quarter of 2009 as an average net debt price of ammonia and UAN of $786 and $376 per ton respectively. Forecasting pricings in today's volatile fertilizer markets…

Stirling Pack, Jr. - Vice President of Investor Relations

Analyst

Thank you gentlemen we appreciate your comments. Manny we are prepared then to take questions from our listeners. Question And Answer

Operator

Operator

Thank you. and ladies and gentlemen we will now be conducting a question and answer session. [Operator Instructions]. Thank you. And our first question is from the line of Jeff Dietert with Simmons & Company. Please go ahead. Jeff Dietert - Simmons & Company: Good morning. I had a question, a follow-up question on your fertilizer business. In August you talked about selling some first quarter '09 product UAN at $550 and ammonia over $900 a ton. Could you give us an update on where you are selling product now? John "Jack" Lipinski - Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President: Yeah, absolutely. As recently over the last two weeks we've been selling UAN at current quarter levels of roughly $330 a ton and we did sold ammonia in the $500 ton range. This is at the moment. Jeff Dietert - Simmons & Company: And what period is that... are those sales for? John "Jack" Lipinski - Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President: Those particular sales are not half cropped and half into the first quarter, little bit of both Jeff. Jeff Dietert - Simmons & Company: Okay, all right, good. Second question. We're seeing crude supply trade and steeper discounts relative to WTI. Could you talk about what you are seeing at coffee drill [ph] as far as both gathered crude and other crude purchases that you are making?

James T. Rens - Chief Financial Officer

Analyst · Jeff Dietert with Simmons & Company

Sure Jeff. I only answer that one. Let's start out by just crude discounts. It was almost anomalous that when crude prices went up, discounts between the fleets hours spread in the heavy sweet spread also come in front rather than one would expect to spread out. Now that crude have come down into the current level of $60 or $70 a barrel, we are seeing those returns significantly. We are buying Canadian crude discounted and buying it up in harvest fee in $21, $22 barrels lost at BCI and the $60, $70 crude that were met with those same crudes of eight months ago were $16 to $18. So on a percentage basis which we look at the discounts are improving and we are focusing more on running heavy Canadians again. We also are buying more foreign harbors basically the arb [ph] was not open from West Africa or South America for several months. That arb is now open and we are purchasing foreign orders once again bringing them up, waiting and pushing them into the plant. We are seeing a widening of our crude differential; our discounted WTI as we are going forward. As far as crude... our gathered crude, we have expanded our gathering operations. We currently gather over 30,000 barrels a day, I think it's very [indiscernible] 32,000, and then lose a little bit. That's up almost 10,000 barrels a day, 8,000 to 10,000 barrels a day to one of it was several months. Some of that it's directly related to the problems that Singroup had. We have picked up a number of their customers and we are processing on expanding our gathering operations as we move along because we think we have the unique advantage and that we gather and that we bring it to the refinery which gives us WTI quality crudes adding significant discounts for WTI. Jeff Dietert - Simmons & Company: Are those discounts widening further on the gathered crudes?

James T. Rens - Chief Financial Officer

Analyst · Jeff Dietert with Simmons & Company

No we don't necessarily see them go on an absolute dollar basis widening. They may in the future pretty much these are all P plus type of arrangements postings plus. Those numbers haven't moved and it's a competitive market so it's a big market. We would expect that if the discounts continue to widen on the crude side, WCS or coolake [ph] or even foreign crudes there may be more pressure on that price and of course we would follow pretty much the others and again there are several postings in the area. Jeff Dietert - Simmons & Company: Could...I apologize if this is in the release, but I didn't see it. Could you update us on the liability associated with risk management assets from both short-term and long-term liability, associated with cash flow hedge?

Stanley A. Riemann - Chief Operating Officer

Analyst · Jeff Dietert with Simmons & Company

Yes. I mean as of...what was currently is... as of the last mark that we had which was... where we closed on October. And at that point October was again of roughly $1.8 million and... on end of October the unrealized mark was about $35.2 million. Jeff Dietert - Simmons & Company: Okay. Good. And Jack is there any change in the put that Goldman has on the GP, I guess Goldman council have on the GP ownership? John "Jack" Lipinski - Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President: Nothing has changed there. And just to understand there, there are several triggers for that GP including a time treasure which is at the end of next year and then also the fact that there is some covenant triggers that have... would have to come into play. In other words, we would have to renegotiate our debt package to take the collateral obligation of the fertilizer business out from underneath that debt package, you know what the debt markets are. So this is a kind of... this is often the future certainly.

Stanley A. Riemann - Chief Operating Officer

Analyst · Jeff Dietert with Simmons & Company

Yeah and there's been no amendment I guess Jeff for those agreements, so the put rise that was originally there is there and it's kind of October of '09 before that rise can affect. Jeff Dietert - Simmons & Company: It seems like a number of assumptions were made with that negotiation that the MLP IPO was going to move forward and given the change in the environment, whether it seemed appropriate to terminate those capabilities?

James T. Rens - Chief Financial Officer

Analyst · Jeff Dietert with Simmons & Company

That responsive call [ph]. That's a credit, it's not a call on our part. So I can't speak to what's responsive to the quality. Jeff Dietert - Simmons & Company: Okay. Thanks for your comments.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions]. There are currently no questions in the queue at this time.

Stirling Pack, Jr. - Vice President of Investor Relations

Analyst

Okay, thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you Manny.

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's teleconference; you may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation. .