Earnings Labs

American Electric Power Company, Inc. (AEP)

Q3 2019 Earnings Call· Thu, Oct 24, 2019

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the American Electric Power Third Quarter 2019 Earnings Release Conference Call. At this point, all participant lines are in a listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for your questions and instructions will be given at that time. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, today's call is being recorded. I'll turn the call now over to Ms. Darcy Reese. Please go ahead.

Darcy Reese

Analyst · SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead

Thank you, John. Good morning, everyone and welcome to the third quarter 2019 earnings call for American Electric Power. Thank you for taking the time to join us today. Our earnings release, presentation slides and related financial information are available on our website at aep.com. Today we will be making forward-looking statements during the call. There are many factors that may cause future results to differ materially from these statements. Please refer to our SEC filings for a discussion of these factors. Our presentation also includes references to non-GAAP financial information. Please refer to the reconciliation of the applicable GAAP measures provided in the appendix of today's presentation. Joining me this morning for opening remarks are Nick Akins, our Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Brian Tierney, our Chief Financial Officer. We will take your questions following their remarks. I will now turn the call over to Nick.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Okay. Thanks, Darcy, and welcome to the call, your first time in the call. I'm willing Bette Jo Rozsa is still listening even though she is in retirement, but thanks for everyone for joining AEP's third quarter earnings call. Brian will update you on the financials for the quarter and year-to-date a little later, but I'll summarize my view of the quarter as we go forward. First, we had a great quarter, supported by warm weather through September, previous positive regulatory outcomes that are now being reflected in our financial results, continued success in management or O&M expenses. And I have to say, load is making a comeback. After the lower load last quarter, it is good to see some improvement that generally remains flat to last year, but still positive from the second quarter. We're watching this trend closely during the fourth quarter and into next year. Given all of that, we are raising and narrowing our operating earnings guidance range for 2019 from $4 to $4.20 per share to $4.14 to $4.24 per share with a new midpoint of $4.19 per share. We're also reaffirming our 5% to 7% growth rate based upon our original guidance. Additionally, the AEP Board earlier this week authorized an increase of $0.03 per share from $0.67 to $0.70 a share, a 4.5% increase. This increase keeps us firmly in the middle of our targeted 60% to 70% payout range. And along with last year's increase of 8.1% averages to a 6.3% increase for the last two years, commensurate with our 5% to 7% earnings growth rate. We continue to expect the dividend to grow in line with our earnings and firmly within our targeted payout ratio. So let's step into a few highlight areas for the quarter. Regarding our North Central Wind…

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Thank you Nick and good morning everyone. I will take us through the third quarter and year-to-date financial results, provide some update on more than the economy review our balance sheet and liquidity and finish with a preview of what we will present at the EEI Conference. Let's talk briefly on Slide 6 which shows the comparison of GAAP to operating earnings for the quarter and year-to-date periods. GAAP earnings for the third quarter were $1.49 per share compared to $1.17 per share in 2018. GAAP earnings through September were $3.58 per share compared to $3.17 per share in 2008. There is a reconciliation of GAAP to operating earnings in the release. Let's get into the detail on Slide 7 and look at the drivers of quarterly operating earnings by segment. Operating earnings for the third quarter were $1.46 per share or $722 million compared to $1.26 per share or $619 million in 2018. Operating earnings for Vertically Integrated Utilities were $0.89 per share up $0.18 primarily driven by rate changes which were favorable by $0.07. Weather was also favorable this quarter up $0.04 from last year. Smaller impacts for this segment are listed on the slide. The Transmission & Distribution Utilities segment earned $0.27 per share down $0.03 from last year. Earnings in this segment declined due to the roll-off of legacy riders in Ohio and higher O&M, depreciation and property taxes. These items were partially offset by recovery of increased transmission investment in ERCOT, weather and rate changes. The AEP Transmission Holdco segment continued to grow contributing $0.25 per share, an improvement of $0.10 over last year. This growth reflected the return on incremental rate base as well as the impact of a non-recurring prior year accounting adjustment. Net plant increased by $1.4 billion or 18% since September…

Operator

Operator

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] And first in the line Julien Dumoulin-Smith with Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead.

Julien Dumoulin-Smith

Analyst

Hey, good morning.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Hey, Julien.

Julien Dumoulin-Smith

Analyst

So, perhaps if I can go back to some of the commentaries on the last call and brief, certainly some variations across the service territory on your sales trends would be curious, how does this position you relative to your broad plans and thought process against the 5% to 7%? Just want to be exceptionally clear, as you think about having closed some good results here in the third quarter and again reaffirming the higher end?

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Yes, there is no change in our thought process. We're still tracking 5% to 7%. We disappointed if we weren't in the upper range of that, because obviously, when you look at the components of load here from a financial perspective, it's not having much impact on our plans. And though by the way, we adjust all the time, for weather, for all kinds of things. And we have a big opportunity to do that. And I think there's a real opportunity for us to continue to advance, particularly with the renewables play and everything else that's going on. So, even without that though, I think we're in great shape. So it hasn't changed anything. I mean, probably last quarter we probably talked almost too much about the loans and the industrial side of things. And really there's nothing compared to what we experienced back in 2009 and that did pretty well weather in that storm. So -- but in this case, I think you’re seeing some resiliency there from an industrial and manufacturing standpoint and you’re seeing it start to pick up. And from the -- and as we said, it's also interesting to note, it's great to have diversity in load, because we've got the oil and gas activity that's going gangbusters with the transportation sector. And then also you think of what's going on just the consumer side and everyone's talking about this being a consumer-driven economy. And there's no question that people have more money in their pockets and more people have jobs. And you're seeing that reflected in the numbers that we see. So we stand committed to what we've always said before, and we fully expect to be in the upper range of that 5% to 7%.

Julien Dumoulin-Smith

Analyst

Thanks for the clarity there. And then perhaps if I can jump in real quickly. How are you trending on energy supply as you think about the -- and you said, you might be updating this with respect to EEI, but can you elaborate at least initially on how you're trending on the energy supply side of the business? Obviously, there's a number of different moving factors within that segment of the business renewables increasing sort of legacy stuff declining still. How is that trending all together? If you can give us a little bit of a sense here, especially again relative to that longer-term 5% to 7%.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Yes. It's going to be up versus what we talked about last year at EEI. But the fact of the matter is, as we've sold off some of the competitive generation of the retiring plants, we're replacing some of those earnings with the renewable business that we had. So it's not declining the way you might expect from the sale of the competitive assets and the retirements, but we’ve filled in some of that gap with the renewables, but we don't expect that to be a huge growing business for us going forward.

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

And by the way on the contract -- contracted renewables, we continue to do very well in that business. Obviously, it's measured with a $2.2 billion of capital that we've allocated to it. The organization there is doing a wonderful job of being judicious about that. Obviously, the acquisition that we made was very positive, but the development opportunities are significant there. And we have some other opportunities that we continue to work on. So that pipeline can continue as long as we wanted to continue. And to what extent we want to continue. But we're able to make that kind of decision regarding that business, because we also have a huge transmission business and a growing distribution business is huge already, but there's all kinds of opportunities there. So really our big issue is continuing to manage around a strong and robust balance sheet continuing to deploy the capital.

Julien Dumoulin-Smith

Analyst

Great. I'll leave it there. See you guys soon. Cheers.

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Thanks.

Operator

Operator

Next we’ll go to line of Steve Fleishman with Wolfe Research. Please go ahead.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Good morning Steve.

Steve Fleishman

Analyst

Hey, good morning. I’m just the first curious question on the growth at the PSO particularly on energy because from an energy standpoint you would have thought that's been the area where the rig count has gone down the most. So is there a way to kind of make sense of that?

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Well, there has been some industrials that have in place down there and some expansions. And so Oklahoma has a governor down there that is really focused on economic development and I think it's having an impact on the state. We're very happy to see that. There's certainly low rates there, and the ability to put these industrials in place, but it's probably a more balanced economy as well. Steve, even what you're seeing with rig count. A lot of the growth that we've seen has been a mid and downstream. And a lot of that specifically in pipeline transportation un-congesting a lot of the shale region congestion that's happened over the last several years and it's moving the products and commodities out of those regions.

Steve Fleishman

Analyst

Okay. That makes sense. Thanks. And just -- I think you kind of answered this, but just the renewables acquisition that you made. Can you just give us kind of a flavor of how well that's gone versus pro forma? And just how much are you seeing the ability to potentially expand.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Yeah, I think we're non-utility renewables. Yeah, so we're particularly pleased with the performance of that particular acquisition and really in concert with the other development opportunities that we were focused on. But when you think about the acquisition of not only the projects and really the economics was based on the active projects that were ongoing the developmental opportunities we’ve hardly placed any value on, because you didn't know they would happen. But in fact those have continued to progress quite nicely. So it really has been an opportunity for us to continue the expansion of that effort. And then you also have to include Santa Rita in that where we’ve continue to expand from that perspective. So I think that business is moving along quite well. We're very disciplined in the way we approach it and I think it's paid off.

Steve Fleishman

Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Yeah.

Operator

Operator

Our next question is from Christopher Turnure with JPMorgan. Please go ahead.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Good morning.

Christopher Turnure

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Good morning, guys. My first question is just on forward-looking guidance. I guess, one, it sounds like you would not put out a 2021 range at EEI for EPS? And then, two, related to that, can you remind us of the current drivers underlying your 2020 range?

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Yes. So, we're likely just to focus on 2020. At EEI we reaffirmed our 5% to 7% earnings growth rate. Remember that our guidance for 2020 is $4.25 to $4.45 and we're likely to say that that's what it will be again for 2020. And the key drivers are the things that you would think about for a traditional premium regulated utility. It's rate outcomes, ability to invest in our organic regulated businesses, our ability to continue to invest in contracted renewables, and then, of course, things like weather and load will impact the earnings outlook as well. So not to forget, of course, our ability to constrain as we have over many years O&M spending and we're particularly going to be focused on that in 2020.

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

You're going to hear more about now achieving excellence program that really is focused on a forward view of where our business needs to go. And our employees are all energized around it, because we have to redefine ourselves going forward. And the outcome of that, obviously, is to be able to deploy more capital, but also to reduce O&M, because you're able to deploy capital and be able to optimize and drive efficiencies through automation digitization and all those kinds of things. And so, for us it's really a focus on changing that business. And the fact that we're coming out with our guidance for 2020 and then the 5% to 7% growth rate, I think, we're comfortable with just doing that because that element of consistency is there and we don't expect it to change. I mean you can sort of do your own math. And typically what we've done is, when we go down over the year we just did the math for you. So just think of it from that perspective. Now the one thing that could change that is the regulated renewables that are not included in the capital plan. So you could have a step change and then continue at 5% to 7%. So that's the kind of thing that we're looking at right now.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

A positive step change.

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Yes, positive step change.

Christopher Turnure

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Okay. That's good to hear. So it sounds like some of the positive things over the past year that have changed underlying 2020 are potentially curtailed a little bit, maybe by load or other factors. But, net-net, you're pretty much come back to the same place?

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

No. We're not saying anything back in 2020, because obviously our transmission business continues to do well and other components of our business as well. And then the load itself. There's components of that load that’s doing really well. And from a financial perspective, load will have not that much of an impact on the earnings of the company. So we're not saying that at all. I mean 2020, it's full speed ahead. And then 2021, we'll obviously see the outcome of the regulated renewable piece of it and go from there.

Christopher Turnure

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Okay. Excellent. And then, just given one of your peers in Texas and some of the back and forth in their rate case proceeding, can you give us an update on kind of the latest in the rate case process and dialogue and any thoughts to the overall Texas environment changing?

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Well, certainly, Texas is Texas. I mean, there's all kinds of opinions and interveners obviously have their opinions. But when it comes down to it it's AEP Texas is a transmission and distribution utility. And it's very difficult to disallow costs that are spent from a transmission and a distribution perspective. So that's going to be up to the Texas Commission. And certainly, we have a different fact patterns than the other one that you referred to. And every case is different, every company is different, the kind of investments are different. So we feel good about our position in AEP Texas. That's why we continue to invest the way we do. So, obviously, we're looking for a positive outcome as a signal to continue investing.

Christopher Turnure

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Okay. Thanks, Nick.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Yes.

Operator

Operator

Next we'll go to Greg Gordon with Evercore ISI. Please go ahead.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Yes. Hi, Greg.

Greg Gordon

Analyst

Hey, how are you? Good morning. Great quarter. Congrats.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Thanks.

Greg Gordon

Analyst

What is the fascination down in Texas with the idea of ring fencing? I know that it's been proposed in both the -- one of your competitors' pending cases as well as staff positions proposing it in yours. And I'm just wondering what your perspective on that is and where you think they're coming from?

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Yes. It's probably a better question for the commission than for us. But, obviously, during the Encore proceedings that's were sort of all this started. And obviously a company like Encore they wanted to make sure that there are some local type of control. And we're you operating in the state and have been for years. And I think the commission obviously is interested in how much control is placed within Texas around the assets that they feel like that benefit the state of Texas. So, I suspect you may see some reminiscence of that showing up in various cases, but we have been in and are operating in Texas for a long time and that's not going to change.

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Greg, the things that's ironic particularly given our situation in Texas is that we are a net investor in Texas. Meaning we're putting debt and equity capital to work in Texas rather than taking it out. So, for us I think they want to see us continue doing what we've been doing now for years which is investing that capital in Texas rather than taking it out and that's what we intend to continue to do.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Texas is one of the fastest-growing territories that we have. And we're not going to -- I mean we're not going to fall back on our ability to invest and produce benefits for our customers. And in East Texas obviously we have direct contact with the customers in the portion is at T&D and -- but certainly, I think that this line is getting more and more all the time and that's probably a feature that needs to be discussed in Texas about how to deal with that. But nevertheless that's down for the strategy part of it in the future.

Gregory Gordon

Analyst

Thank you. Then one more. I know it's early days, but what is the -- so has there been any public response from intervenor groups with regard to the North Central wind proposal? And do we see a more sort of accepting initial response than we did in your wind catcher proposal? Or is it too early to say?

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

I'd say it's too early to say. At this point, there's nothing public that's been out there. But I'll say that we purposely filed this to where it had a lot of variability, a lot of optionality to it, and certainly consistent with the ongoing existing processes of the integrated resource planning of each one of the areas. And I would say just back alone we've had more -- at least a more positive reception of how to deal with it. And so I would have to say things are going reasonably well at this point. And certainly the parties involved know and understand it because after going through wind catcher this one, you can really talk about what the differences are and the beneficial differences. If they were concerned about transmission don't be concerned about it. If you are concerned about a large area just one area you don't concerned about that either. And if you're concerned about dependency on one area versus no don't worry about that either. So, I think our processes and with the procedural schedules already defined in every jurisdiction, we're rolling along to a summer of getting the approvals and moving ahead.

Gregory Gordon

Analyst

Fantastic. Thank you, guys.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Thanks Greg.

Operator

Operator

And next the line of with Greg [Indiscernible] with UBS. Please go ahead.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Good morning.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Yes, thank you. Good morning. I was wondering if it's possible to get a preview of the CapEx update at EEI maybe just -- maybe the drivers and I assume the backlog would increase.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

So, I really want to see the detail after EEI. But if you looked at the trends for how we've been spending dollars over the last decade or so, the preponderance of it going to all regulated properties and the preponderance of that going to the wire side of the business. So, that trend that you've seen in the past is going to continue in the detail that we're going to release it yet.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Okay. Thank you. Look forward.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Good. Thanks.

Operator

Operator

Next move to Michael Lapides with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Hey Michael.

Michael Lapides

Analyst

Good morning guys. Congrats on a good quarter.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

You got a big game coming up.

Michael Lapides

Analyst

We got to get a quarter back healthy before we play out -- scare the heck out again. A couple of things. One interest rates, obviously, are way down especially the long end of the curve. Just curious how you're thinking about what this means for not just pension expenses that flow through the income statement, but also pension contributions.

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

So, that's a good question. We plan every year as we go into the year to pay to contribute to the pensions about equal to our annual service cost. For the last two years, both 2019 and 2018, we sort of had a funding holiday and the decrease in interest rates has pushed down our funding a little bit really into the mid-90s for pensions and still very well over OPEB, but rates can only go down so much more I think. And so, I think we don't have much downside on the pension fund. Again, we'll be watching every year what our funding is going to be for next year. We plan on putting in about $100 million for service -- annual service costs, and we still expect the expense side of that equation to be about zero to maybe a slight positive credit.

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

That's a good thing about being well-funded on our pension and OPEB, that gives us a lot of flexibility and there's really no surprises.

Michael Lapides

Analyst

Got it. And then one follow-up. When you think about the docking, especially obviously PSO and the different SWEPCO stage for the North Central Wind's process, how do you think this is different than what you went through with Wind Catcher?

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

I think Wind Catcher was a unique situation. I mean we obviously looked at it and thought that there's a great opportunity for all of these jurisdictions. But, at the end of the day, there was a large project and one area with a large generation or connect transmission, whatever you want to call it. And you got hanging up on the risk associated with that, particularly with all the customer savings and trying to figure that out and making sure that everyone was comfortable with that kind of project. I still stand by it. It was a great project. There's no question about it. But we learned from that. And I think the more you stick with the regulatory processes that the commissions have had longstanding. I mean we've had other renewable projects that we've done the same exact process with that have gone through in their problem. We want to refashion this thing to make sure it is what everybody expected to see. And when you look at these projects, there's three different wind farms that are involved with that with a lot flexibility on new-in and news-out. And it gives us the ability to not only do that, but also not depend upon additional transmission, so you don't have to focus on that piece of it. And then also for us to be able to look at the project benefits themselves, those benefits are still substantial. So, I would say that -- and of course, the way it worked out in the bidding itself -- I can't talk about this, but we chose those three projects because they were much better than the others that were bid from a pricing perspective, but also all three of them happen to be with a party that we have continually…

Michael Lapides

Analyst

Got it. Thank you, Nick. And one last thing. Tax rates, how should we think about what the consolidated tax rate for income statement reporting purposes is going to be in 2019 liquidity assuming guidance?

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

So, for GAAP taxes, we're anticipating about a 2.6% to 3% effective tax rate for the year, obviously driven down by the amortization of the deferred protected and unprotected taxes. But for 2019, there's also an AMT credit carryforward from prior periods. So that 2.6% to 3% is going to be lower than what we anticipate going forward where we anticipate a rate after the amortization of the deferred taxes to be about 10% going forward.

Michael Lapides

Analyst

Meaning, if I think about 2020 tax rate and 2021, you're using about 10% for guidance for those years.

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

We are, but -- and let me be clear about that. That's what we're using for guidance. That's what's in our numbers. That's what we figure to be around at 10%. If we were to have incremental income because we're maxing to the 75% allowed for the upper taxes. If we -- I'm sorry for the production tax credits. If you were to have incremental income and you're trying to model that in, you should use a 24% rate. Does that make sense?

Michael Lapides

Analyst

I think so, but I can follow-up offline guys.

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

So let me just try to be clear. What's in our $4.25 to $4.45 guidance for 2020 assumes an effective tax rate of about 10%. If you were to layer in incremental, you need to use a 24% rate.

Michael Lapides

Analyst

Got it. Understood. So the -- it have to be a lot of incremental to move the needle on the weighted average.

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Yes sir.

Michael Lapides

Analyst

Cool. Thank you, Brian. Much appreciated guys.

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Thanks, Michael.

Operator

Operator

Next we'll go to Angie Storozynski with Macquarie. Please go ahead.

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Good morning, Angie.

Angie Storozynski

Analyst

Good morning. Very few questions. Just going back to the oil and gas related sales. So you mentioned pipeline investments, but we're actually hearing that drillers are switching pump from diesel to electric and that could be a meaningful driver of sales growth of electric companies, but the companies are in our shale regions. Are you seeing this?

Nick Akins

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

That's been going on for a while actually the conversion to electric. And then also when you look at the transportation fees there's a lot of activity around ability to get out of the shale gas fields and the gas out of the shale gas field. So there's not a lot of optimization on the transmission side. Brian?

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Yeah, it's a lot of -- rather than just on the pumping side and pipeline transportation, we're seeing a lot of electric compression.

Angie Storozynski

Analyst

Okay. And then to that point, you're showing us that the sensitivity of earnings, the changes in industrial sales is actually very low. So O&M the plan that you gave some efficiencies on the O&M side that you point on there about the EEI that would be actually a more meaningful earnings driver. Is that fair?

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Yeah. I think the other key areas we look at is if we need to deploy capital and reduce O&M because if you think about load in general, I think this is for many utilities but load in general, you can't have the expectation of ever increasing energy demand. You got to really think about efficiency what it means and what it means to the economy. And also if you assume that then the way that you continue to grow from a 5% to 7%, which we've confirmed is not only to deploy capital, but to reduce O&M. So it's a huge -- and that's why we say bending the O&M curve or doing those activities. It's going to be a key component in the future, I would say not for us -- but not just for us but for just about every utility.

Angie Storozynski

Analyst

Okay. And lastly so I understand that the rate based renewables are not currently embedded in either your CapEx plan or funding needs. I mean, assuming that mid of next year you get a green light at least on a portion of this incremental CapEx, you probably have incremental equity needs to fund this spending, would you consider some, sort of, an optimization of your current portfolio as a way to pay for the CapEx?

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Yes, we would and I think one of the big processes we have going forward will be around optimization of our balance sheet and capital rotation and capital management and asset management goes with that. Obviously it would be a great opportunity to get the wind power resources and we'll be looking at all kinds of methods to be able to fund that investment.

Angie Storozynski

Analyst

Very good. Thank you.

Brian Tierney

Analyst · JPMorgan. Please go ahead

Thank you.

Darcy Reese

Analyst · SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead

Hey John, we have time for one more call.

Operator

Operator

And that will be from Ali Agha with SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead.

Ali Agha

Analyst · SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead

Good morning.

Brian Tierney

Analyst · SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead

Good morning.

Ali Agha

Analyst · SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead

First question, Brian or Nick, I just wanted to understand the philosophy behind the annual dividend changes. As you mentioned last year, you moved it up 8%. And I believe that was to get you to the midpoint of your payout ratio. This year it’s 4.5%, perhaps being a little below that midpoint, so just thinking the lumpiness there. How should we think about the philosophy behind that?

Brian Tierney

Analyst · SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead

Yeah. We're trying to keep it right in the middle of the payout range and that's what we do. This year -- you put last year and this year together, it's above the midpoint of our long-term growth rate for earnings. And I think the Board is trying to reward investors by keeping it right in the midpoint of that 60% to 70% stated payout ratio.

Nick Akins

Analyst · SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead

It's just unfortunate that we have quarters and years around the annual calendar and stuff like that. But lot of times you're looking at these the dividend side of things and of course it's going to move generally in that 5% to 7%. And it's been no secret that's tagged around the 6% range. And we are committed to stay firmly in the middle of that 60% to 70% payout range. But there's a lot of things to consider. I mean, we got the same questions, when we did 8.1% last year. What does that mean? So we're reiterating that, it will be in line with our 5% to 7% growth rate. But year-to-year you see just things that kind of round off on pennies and that kind of thing. But there should not be any interpretation that our Board feel differently about the prospects of growth of this company in the future. And so, we debated that quite a bit, because we did want to reaffirm this 5% to 7% growth rate. So, don't read anything into it.

Ali Agha

Analyst · SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead

Got you and then, last question, with regards to the 2020 range, 4 25 to 4.45. I mean that was provides with a long-time back. I think, EEI, if I recall it, lots has happened and got some very good rate case outcomes in Oklahoma, et cetera. So any thought on that, I mean I expect 2019 is turning out that maybe you could move that up or maybe the upper half or upper end more comfortable, as we sit here today, any thoughts around that?

Brian Tierney

Analyst · SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead

We're just -- we're going to refresh at EEI, Ali. But Nick always says we'd be disappointed if we weren't in the upper end of the range. And I think that's going to be true, for 2019 and 2020.

Nick Akins

Analyst · SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead

And probably some of these things just sort of have to prove themselves out over time. And we went to 5% to 7% after we sold the unregulated generation we were at 4% to 6% at that point, because we felt like that 5% to 7% was something that we saw going forward for the long-term. It is a long-term growth rate. So, we'll have to see. Obviously, we're seeing some positive outcomes. And we continue to see that. The question is okay, how sustainable is that on a long-term basis going forward, based on what we see today. And we're comfortable with the 5% to 7%. We're getting more comfortable with the upper ranges of 5% to 7%. But, before you change to 6% to 8% or are you asking if I can, you have to be able to credibly see that for the long-term. And that’s something you have to sort of warm over to overtime.

Ali Agha

Analyst · SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead

I understood. Thank you.

Nick Akins

Analyst · SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead

Yeah.

Darcy Reese

Analyst · SunTrust Robinson Humphrey. Please go ahead

Thank you for joining us on today's call. As always the IR team will be available to answer any additional questions you may have. John, would you please give the replay information.

Operator

Operator

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