Earnings Labs

WSFS Financial Corporation (WSFS)

Q2 2009 Earnings Call· Tue, Jul 28, 2009

$72.25

-0.23%

Key Takeaways · AI generated
AI summary not yet generated for this transcript. Generation in progress for older transcripts; check back soon, or browse the full transcript below.

Same-Day

-0.54%

1 Week

+1.63%

1 Month

+6.41%

vs S&P

+0.78%

Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good day. Welcome to WSFS Second Quarter 2009 Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions at the end of today's presentation. (Operator Instructions). Please note this conference is being recorded. Now I'd like to turn the conference over to Stephen Fowle. Mr. Fowle, the floor is yours, sir.

Stephen A. Fowle

Management

Thank you, Mike, and thank you to everyone participating on the call. Before Mark begins with his opening remarks, I'd like to read our Safe Harbor statements. Following discussion may contain statements which are not historical facts and are forward-looking statements as defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such forward-looking statements, which are based on various assumptions, some of which may be beyond the company's control, are subject to risks and uncertainties and other factors which could cause actual results to differ materially from those currently anticipated. Such risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to, those related to the economic environment particularly in the market areas in which the company operates, the volatility of the financial securities markets, including changes with respect to the market value of our financial assets, changes in government regulations affecting financial institutions and potential expenses associated therewith, changes resulting from our participation in the CPP including additional conditions that may be imposed in the future on participating companies and the costs associated with resolving any problem loans and other risks and uncertainties discussed in documents filed by WSFS Financial Corporation with the Securities and Exchange Commission from time to time. The Corporation does not undertake to update any forward-looking statements whether written or oral that maybe made from time to time by or on behalf of the Corporation. I will now turn the discussion over the Mark Turner, WSFS President and Chief Executive Officer.

Mark A. Turner

Management

Thank you, Steve, and thank you all for your time and interest. I have about 10 minutes of comments before opening the lines to take questions. For the quarter, we recorded a loss of 3.1 million or $0.50 of share. As a result, tangible common book value per share declined by $0.34 or about 1% to $33.19 of share. Our tangible common equity ratio declined slightly to 5.75% of assets. These ratios do not include the pro forma impact of accounting capital raised discussed later. Our results were impacted by a number of non-routine items discussed later and by increase credit costs, which are result of a worsened economy across the region and its impact on our customers and our asset quality. We've responded in a number of ways. First, during the second quarter, we increased our provision for loan losses to 12 million from the first quarter level of 7.7 million reflecting continuing net charge-offs, credit migration in our commercial loan portfolio primarily, the residential, construction and land development portfolio and continued collateral depreciation. Our allowance for loan losses is now 1.63% of loans, an increase from 1.41% at March very 31st. We also recorded 1.3 million in additional write-downs in REO, predominantly related to an updated appraisal on one Philadelphia Condominium Development project. All in all, we improved our loss reserves meaningfully in the quarter. Additionally, during the past quarter, we moved two large development projects in the non-performing status. While thee projects are still paying, the projects show very slow absorption. We believe we have taken an appropriately conservative approach to these credit decisions. We also continue to increase our problem asset management efforts. During the quarter, we hired a Senior Executive with an extensive background in commercial and residential real estate to augment our asset strategies…

Operator

Operator

Yes, sir. (Operator Instructions). Our first question comes from the Andy Stapp with B. Riley and Co.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

Hi guys.

Mark Turner

Analyst

Hi Andy.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

Could you provide some color on the 6.2 million that you mentioned in your press release that have increased risks in your commercial portfolios. Is it primary commercial loans C&I or are they in a commercial real estate or what? Whatever color you can provide there including the granularity of these loans.

Rodger Levenson

Analyst

Hey Andy, it's Rodger Levenson. It is a combination of continued stress throughout our construction portfolio and in the C&I portfolio, we're particularly seeing stress at a lower end, small business and a lower end of our business banking franchise.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

Okay. And the fraud related wire transfer charge, is that 1.3 million or I know there is some language about $200,000 in expenses. So just trying to confirm if those total charges were 1.3 or 1.5 million?

Stephen Fowle

Analyst

Andy, this is Steve. 1.3 million was money that was gradually wired out. The 200,000 expenses were related to forensic computer work and legal expenses.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

Okay. And would you happen to have your 30 to 89 day delinquencies?

Rodger Levenson

Analyst

Hi Andy, it's Rodger again. This is for the commercial lending portfolio, our 30 to 59 day delinquency is at 52 basis points at the end of the quarter and our 60 to 89 day is at 17 basis points at the end of the quarter.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

And that's just for commercial loans?

Rodger Levenson

Analyst

That is for the commercial loan portfolio, that's correct.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

Do you have it for the total portfolio?

Rodger Levenson

Analyst

Hold on a second.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

Okay.

Rodger Levenson

Analyst

I will look. Perhaps we'll get back you on the specifics on the consumer portfolios. I don't have it right at my fingertips.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

You know where the overall trend was?

Mark Turner

Analyst

The overall trend in consumer deteriorated a little bit. Andy, this is Mark. I think it was total delinquency in consumer was about little under 2.5% in the second quarter which was up modestly from the first quarter.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

And how do you see commercial compared to the first quarter?

Rodger Levenson

Analyst

It's the similar magnitude. We were just over 2% at the end of the first quarter and the overall commercial delinquencies, we reported, was 2.28 at the end of the second quarter.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

Okay. And would happen to have the dollar amount of your watch list at both June 30 and March 31?

Mark Turner

Analyst

The Delaware amount of the watch list?

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

Yeah, the total?

Mark Turner

Analyst

Yeah. Andy, I think we have that number, we just don't have in handy. So if we are going to... we are presenting at a conference tomorrow. The two questions which we couldn't answer we'll catalogue and bring those up at the conference tomorrow.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

Okay. And were any cost associated with the capital raise or did you negotiate this internally?

Mark Turner

Analyst

There were... it was a privately negotiated, there were between legal and some small investment banker fees probably about 200,000 in costs.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

Okay. I've some other questions but I'll let other people get on. Thank you.

Rodger Levenson

Analyst

Okay.

Mark Turner

Analyst

Thank you, Andy.

Operator

Operator

And the next question we have comes from Sandra Osborne from KBW. Sandra Osborne - Keefe Bruyette & Woods Inc.: Thanks. Good afternoon, guys.

Stephen Fowle

Analyst

Good afternoon. Sandra Osborne - Keefe Bruyette & Woods Inc.: I was just wondering can you give me any detail on the incremental construction loan growth; that was only 6 million, would that actual originations or line draw down?

Mark Turner

Analyst

Yeah, that the incremental there is was draw-downs from the existing projects.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Okay, so no... you're not starting any new projects, you are not seeing any new projects right now?

Mark Turner

Analyst

I don't believe there were any new ones, if there was it was very, very small amount.

Rodger Levenson

Analyst

Yeah. Sandra, this is Rodger. There was a couple of loans we reclassified as construction; there is no new activity in that portfolio. Sandra Osborne - Keefe Bruyette & Woods Inc.: Okay, thanks. And under the due diligence cost, just curious why the discussions were terminated and what would be attractive to you right now?

Mark Turner

Analyst

Yeah. Unfortunately but it can't be appropriate for me to comment with any specificity on that. I think suffice is to say that obviously, when we pursue due diligence the prospects that we saw to start were not there, at the end the risks were greater than the opportunities that we saw, generally speaking. And that's, as I mentioned in my earlier comments, I think it's a reflection of we are seeing a lot of opportunity in this market whether they be branches or in our markets or near our market or whole bank situations or niche business opportunities. But we are actively taking a look at but we're being very careful and would continue to be very careful and prudent while we do that. Sandra Osborne - Keefe Bruyette & Woods Inc.: Alright. And finally, with the new capital infusion, just curious if you could update us on thoughts of other potential, I guess, the timing of that?

Mark Turner

Analyst

Yeah, we'd like to repay as soon as it's prudent. However, I think that will be as we see signs at the overall economy stabilizing or market stabilizing and more stable asset quality trends across our book and then our region. It's clear from the results, from our results and others results of other players in and nearby our market that the recession is coming in waves and is hitting this part of our region, it's hitting this region in the country right now. Sandra Osborne - Keefe Bruyette & Woods Inc.: Okay. That's all. Thanks.

Mark Turner

Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

The next question we have from Steve Moss with Janney Montgomery Scott.

Steve Moss - Janney Montgomery Scott

Analyst

Good afternoon guys.

Mark Turner

Analyst

Hi, Steve.

Steve Moss - Janney Montgomery Scott

Analyst

Just wondering what you see in terms of, you spoke of the stress you see in the economy, but still had commercial and CRE growth for the quarter. What do you see in general for the loans pipeline out there?

Rodger Levenson

Analyst

This is Rodger again, Steve. Let say it's... there's consistent opportunity out there but as we've mentioned in our conversations in the past, it's primarily from peaking market share from others particularly from some of our larger competitors who are distracted with other issues. So it continues to be at very favorable structure and pricing and overall relationship, but it's not coming from economic growth.

Steve Moss - Janney Montgomery Scott

Analyst

Okay. Thank you very much.

Stephen Fowle

Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

The next question we have from Avi Barak of Sandler O'Neill. Avi Barak - Sandler O'Neill & Partners LP: Hi, guys. How are you?

Mark Turner

Analyst

Good, Avi. How are you? Avi Barak - Sandler O'Neill & Partners LP: Well. First question is aside from the 1.60 million to wind-down 1st Reverse, should we expect future cost associated with that or is that the bulk of it and then how is your own internal reverse mortgage portfolio holding up and why is the difference between the two?

Mark Turner

Analyst

That is the bulk of it. We do... we accrued for as much as we could on the wind-down decision, but there are some costs bringing the accounting rules that we cannot, we expect over the next few months we'll have a couple of pennies per share of expense running through our earnings statement, but should be nothing significant. Avi, your second question about why the difference. The difference really is in business model and we continue to have very good results locally when we originate reverse mortgages through our retail banking franchise and that's primarily because we obviously already have a significant investment in net retail banking franchise and brand name in our current environment. So it's an additional product we can hook one to the existing retail banking franchise. First reverse was an effort to take reverse mortgages nationally and they did not have the advantage of an existing retail franchise, where other distribution channels. They had to be built and building those during the current market environment proved to be too difficult or... and we could not get the breakeven. So those are the fundamental differences. As I mentioned, we still continue to believe strongly in the products and at a different time expansion of our current franchise in Delaware may make some sense for us. Avi Barak - Sandler O'Neill & Partners LP: Okay. Thanks.

Mark Turner

Analyst

And just to clarify, we, in both of the situations, we don't hold the loans, we just originate and we resell them in the secondary market. Avi Barak - Sandler O'Neill & Partners LP: Got it. Thank you. And then secondly, an unrelated question. When you are moving loans from the non-performing bucket into the arrear bucket, I know no two loans are exactly the same, but what are, in general, maybe a range on average, what kind of haircuts (ph) are you seeing from the original loan value to when it goes into arrear and then depending on the charge-off for now what are the ultimate haircuts is it 20%, 50% in your range?

Rodger Levenson

Analyst

Yeah, hi, Avi, it's Rodger. As you know, we move that obviously into arrear those loans. Once we have controlled those projects and it depends upon the length of time that we have to go through that process and so the range could be anywhere from 15 to 30% at this point. Avi Barak - Sandler O'Neill & Partners LP: Okay, perfect. Okay, thank you.

Mark Turner

Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

The next question we have comes from Mac Zoltes with Benning and Gallagher (ph).

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Hi, good afternoon.

Mark Turner

Analyst

Hi Mac.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

I have one quick question, a follow up. In the fraud where the $200,000 of expense and about a 100, excuse me, 1.3 was actually wired out, total expense 1.5, I mean did you have to pay payback the customers 1.3?

Mark Turner

Analyst

That's correct.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Okay. Thank you very much.

Mark Turner

Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

And the next question we have comes from Brian Roman with Robeco Investment Management.

Brian Roman - Robeco Investment Management

Analyst

Several questions. Could you just repeat the number you said is your expectation for provision for the year?

Mark Turner

Analyst

For the total year 2009, 36 to 46 million.

Brian Roman - Robeco Investment Management

Analyst

So, If we call it 40 million we're sort of around the middle, you are talking about another at least doubling what you've done so far.

Mark Turner

Analyst

That's correct.

Brian Roman - Robeco Investment Management

Analyst

Okay. And is that through the expectation of building that provision above its current coverage of non-performers or just stay in line with its current coverage rate?

Mark Turner

Analyst

I think the expectation is we had certainly tried and build the provision to get ahead of losses and of non-performers. But that would be a function of when non-performers would hit in the... would be reclassified.

Brian Roman - Robeco Investment Management

Analyst

Okay. Other questions, under notable items, 6.2 million related to increased credit risk within the commercial portfolio. Are those, I am sorry, did you say there was some of those were or were not real estate related?

Mark Turner

Analyst

Some of them were?

Brian Roman - Robeco Investment Management

Analyst

In construction related?

Mark Turner

Analyst

That's correct.

Brian Roman - Robeco Investment Management

Analyst

Okay.

Stephen Fowle

Analyst

That's in the commercial portfolio.

Brian Roman - Robeco Investment Management

Analyst

All right. The 9,53,000 related to due diligence, which you terminated discussion, did you terminate it because you didn't like the potential acquisition prospect or because you felt that given every things going on with the organization now might not be the best time to engage in a transaction?

Stephen Fowle

Analyst

It was the former.

Brian Roman - Robeco Investment Management

Analyst

Okay. You talked about wire transfer. Mr. Weschler, first of all, who is Peninsula Investment Partners, who are they?

Mark Turner

Analyst

That's a hedge fund owned and the Principal is Ted Weschler.

Brian Roman - Robeco Investment Management

Analyst

Got it.

Mark Turner

Analyst

Who started these funds; it's got to be close to 10 years ago now. And Ted, through this fund and through prior funds where he was a Principal, have been involved in owning WSFS for the better part of last generation since the early 1990s.

Brian Roman - Robeco Investment Management

Analyst

Okay. Now you see any loan close to 20%, what's, I mean, what sort of regulatory approval is required to go above 10% and as your prospect that it doesn't happen?

Mark Turner

Analyst

With prospect... I am sorry, okay. Over 10%, you're required to file what's known as a rebuttal of control agreement where you agree not to do certain things including solicit proxies et cetera, et cetera. And while there is always a prospect given how beneficial private capital is, the banks fees days and given Ted's positive history and long history with the organization, I would expect that prospect that did not happening with this much.

Brian Roman - Robeco Investment Management

Analyst

Okay. Why did he leave the Board?

Mark Turner

Analyst

Ted left the Board when three years ago, when he sold most of his interest in WSFS at that time. His funds invest primarily and deep value situations and in 2007, when the bank multiples became certainly the highest in a generation that no longer fit, it no longer fit the selection criteria of his fund, so that's why he sold all of that part.

Brian Roman - Robeco Investment Management

Analyst

Good call on his part. Net interest margin, it expanded nicely in the quarter. What's your outlook for margin?

Mark Turner

Analyst

We saw the margin continuing to improve during the quarter. I'd anticipate we have a slight amount of room on the upside for the margin.

Brian Roman

Analyst

Okay. Delinquencies in the CLD, construction land development, it's pretty high delinquency rate. Do you expect it to go higher?

Rodger Levenson

Analyst

Hi Brian, this is Roger again. It's quite possible, as we said, there is a number of projects that we have today that we're monitoring very closely and depending upon future housing sales, those projects could end up going delinquent and that number could get higher.

Mark Turner

Analyst

Okay. It's stated that that has been built... that prospect has been build into our provision expectations for the year.

Brian Roman

Analyst

Okay. One last question regarding deposits, non interest-bearing demand deposits grew quite nicely in the quarter. Why did they grow? Is some of that related to the... whose branches did you buy, more bunch of branches?

Mark Turner

Analyst

Sun branches.

Stephen Fowle

Analyst

Yeah.

Mark Turner

Analyst

What, those October of last year and they certainly would have seen a little bit of growth consistent with the growth in the rest of our branches in our franchise in general. I... rates are ahead of retailers so asking to augment these comments. But, may be general, as people are disinvesting in the stock market as their savings were and as they are seeking even and reliable established names like WSFS that have a record of good service, we are seeing not only market share growth that more than our share of market share growth.

Brian Roman - Robeco Investment Management

Analyst

Great thank you for your answers.

Mark Turner

Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

The next question we have comes from Andy Stapp with B. Riley and Company.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

Are you concerned that by growing loans in a difficult environment that you maybe taking on some problems of some of your competitors?

Rodger Levenson

Analyst

Hey, Andy it's Rodger again. Obviously this environment dictates that the amount of due diligence and underwriting that we go through has increased significantly and your question is probably the first question we ask and ask numerous times to the underwriting process. So, we're going to great lengths to ensure that that's not the case.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

Okay. And do you have any feel for when NPAs might peak?

Rodger Levenson

Analyst

That's hard to forecast. As we've said, it really depends on a number of factors. We certainly would anticipate and we build our forecast around continued fixed low housing and current economic environment remaining at this level and deteriorating slightly through the remainder of the year. So we would expect that NPAs could increase during that period of time. Beyond that, it's really hard to project. I would say that today 27% of our residential construction portfolio already is in a non-accrual status. And so there is a significant amount that's already built into that number.

Andrew Stapp - B. Riley and Co.

Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Now Mr. Turner and gentlemen, it appear that we have no further questions at this time.

Mark Turner

Analyst

Okay. Well, I'd like to thank everybody again for their time and interest and remind everybody that we will be presenting at an investor conference in New York City tomorrow. The information on that conference and the webcast and the dial-in numbers were issued in a press release late last week. If anybody would like that information again, you are free to call Steve Fowle at 302-571-6833. And thank you very much.

Operator

Operator

Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, everyone for attending today's conference. At this time you may disconnect your line. Thank you. (Operator Instructions).