Welcome, and thank you for joining the Wells Fargo Fourth Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers’ remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Please note that today's call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to John Campbell, Director of Investor Relations. Sir, you may begin the conference.

Good morning. Thank you for joining our call today where our CEO, Charlie Scharf; and our CFO, Mike Santomassimo, will discuss fourth quarter results and answer your questions. This call is being recorded. Before we get started, I would like to remind you that our fourth quarter earnings materials, including the release, financial supplement and presentation deck are available on our website at wellsfargo.com. I'd also like to caution you that we may make forward-looking statements during today's call that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from expectations are detailed in our SEC filings, including the Form 8-K filed today containing our earnings materials. Information about any non-GAAP financial measures referenced, including a reconciliation of those measures to GAAP measures can also be found in our SEC filings and the earnings materials available on our website. I will now turn the call over to Charlie.

Thanks, John. I'll make some brief comments about our results and update you on our priorities. I'll then turn the call over to Mike to review fourth quarter results as well as our net interest income and expense expectations for 2024 before we take your questions. Let me start with some 2023 financial highlights. Although, our improved 2023 results benefited from the strong economic environment and higher interest rates, our continued focus on efficiency and strong credit discipline were important contributors as well. We grew net income and diluted earnings per share with higher revenue and lower expenses. Revenue growth was driven by strong growth in net interest income as well as higher noninterest income. Our expenses were down from a year ago, benefiting from lower operating losses as well as the impact of efficiency initiatives. As expected, net charge-offs increased from historical low levels and our allowance for credit losses increased as well. We continue to closely monitor our portfolios, taking credit tightening actions as appropriate. We returned a significant amount of capital to our shareholders, including increasing our common stock dividend from $0.30 per share to $0.35 per share in the third quarter, and we repurchased $12 billion of common stock. Average loans increased modestly with growth in the first half of the year, offsetting declines later in the year, reflecting weaker loan demand as well as credit tightening actions. Average deposits were down driven by consumer spending as well as customers migrating to higher yielding alternatives. The financial health of our consumers remained strong. While average deposit balances per customer continue to decline from their peak, they remained above pre-pandemic levels as wage growth has more than offset increased spending. Having said that, there are cohorts of customers that are more stressed. Consumer spending remained strong. Credit…

Thank you, Charlie, and good morning, everyone. The first couple of slides summarize how we helped our customers and communities last year, some of which Charlie highlighted, so I'm going to start with our fourth quarter financial results on Slide 4. Net income for the fourth quarter was $3.4 billion, or $0.86 per diluted common share. Our fourth quarter results included $1.9 billion or $0.40 per share for the FDIC special assessment, and $1.1 billion of severance expense, including $969 million or $0.20 per share for planned actions. These expenses were partially offset by $621 million or $0.17 per share of discrete tax benefits related to the resolution of prior period tax matters. Turning to capital and liquidity on Slide 5. Our CET1 ratio increased to 11.4% in the fourth quarter, 2.5 percentage points above our regulatory minimum plus buffers. This increase was driven by our earnings and an increase in accumulated other comprehensive income, reflecting lower interest rates and tighter mortgage-backed security spreads. During the fourth quarter, we repurchased $2.4 billion in common stock. We repurchased a total of $12 billion in common stock in 2023, and we currently expect to be able to repurchase more than this amount in 2024. We will continue to consider current market conditions, including interest rate movements, risk-weighted asset levels, stress test results as well as any potential economic uncertainty with respect to the amount and timing of share repurchases over the coming quarters. Turning to credit quality on Slide 7. As expected, net loan charge-offs increased, up 17 basis points from the third quarter to 53 basis points of average loans, driven by commercial real estate office and credit card loans. The increase in commercial net loan charge-offs reflected the higher losses in commercial real estate office, while losses in the rest…

[Operator Instructions] And our first question of the day will come from Steven Chubak of Wolfe Research. Sir, your line is open.

Hi, good morning. Happy New Year. Mike, I was appreciate all the NII detail. Just given all the different puts and takes that you cited, I was hoping you could provide some context as to how you’re thinking about the exit rate for NII in 2024 per the guidance, just given expectations per the street that NII should inflect positively in 2025. Just want to get a sense as to how you’re thinking about where NII could potentially trough or stabilize based on the forward curve?

Yeah, no, I appreciate the question. When you – based on what we gave you, Steve, I think, we said on the page and in my remarks that we do expect it to start to inflect and trough as we get towards the end of the year. Exactly when that happens, I think we’ll sort of see. We’re not going to get too specific there, but we do expect that you would start to see a trough as we get to the end of the year and into 2025.

Very helpful. And then for my follow up just on expenses, the core expense guidance shows another net reduction in 2024. You noted that you’re making investments, but those will be offset by efficiency savings. And just want to get a sense as to how long you can sustain that flattish core expense trajectory, continue to fund investments with future efficiencies.

Yeah, I think when we think about the efficiency journey that we’re on. I think Charlie and I have been both pretty clear consistently now that there’s more to do and 2024 is just another year in the journey. Right. And we’ve got more to do post that to continue to drive efficiency across the place, where we’re going to net out on a year-to-year basis in terms of the net spend, I’m not going to try to predict. But as you look across the company, I think we’re just continuing to methodically make progress to drive automation, efficiency, reduce third party spend, reduce our real estate footprint across all of the different dimensions. And I think we think we’ve got more to do and that’ll continue into 2025 and beyond.

That’s great. Thanks so much for taking my questions.

The next question will come from John McDonald of Autonomous Research. Your line is open, sir.

Hi, good morning. Mike, I wanted to ask about the fee income drivers for this year. Charlie mentioned obviously some examples of progress that you’ve gotten leverage on investments and then obviously you’ve got cyclical headwinds and tailwinds. So maybe just could you walk through some of the bigger fee income drivers and give your sense of puts and takes and how you’re feeling this year going into the fee revenue outlook?

Yeah, sure. Thanks, John. When you look at the components there, I mean, the largest one is going to be our advisory fees in the Wealth and Investment Management business. And market levels are higher than they were this time last year. And so if that holds or gets better, as many people predicting, that should be constructive for that fee. When you start looking at the other line items like trading, the market’s got to cooperate. We’re happy with the progress we’ve been making across the different businesses there, but the market is going to have to cooperate as well for that to continue. We had a number of impairments across our venture capital portfolio this year. At some point, that should start to peter out, and we’ll see that inflect. And then the other fee lines should be pretty predictable for the most part, as you sort of look forward.

Okay. And just to follow up on the net interest income idea of bottoming towards the end of the year, theoretically, what would be the drivers of that kind of bottoming? Do you have fixed asset reprice that helps? Or is it kind of assumed new asset generation? Maybe you could just wrap that into some thoughts about what would drive that inflection in the context of any update on rate sensitivity as well? Thanks.

Yes, sure. Maybe I’ll start with the latter part first. And – as you can see in the data we gave in the presentation, we’re anchoring it to what was in the forward curve as of a day last week, which is not that dissimilar to what you have today. And I think when you look at sensitivity to that, our interest rate sensitivity disclosures in this case are a pretty good estimate for how to think about whether if rates are a little bit higher or a little bit lower than what’s in that forward curve. And if you look at where we were at the end of the third quarter, we were still modestly asset sensitive. That’ll still be the case at the end of the fourth quarter. It will come down a little bit from where it was, but will still be asset sensitive. But its – and if you look at the forward curve, I think on average, rates are coming down something like 50 basis points. And so it is pretty linear math when you look at the sensitivities that we included in the queue, when you look at the underlying assumptions as you go into the year, we’ve got loan growth being pretty muted in the beginning part of the year. That’ll hopefully start to pick up as we get later in the year. So that will be a driver of it. As you get towards the end of the year, you’ll have some stabilization. We’re expecting stabilization of pretty stable deposits across the commercial and wealth management businesses. At some point, the consumer deposits will also stabilize and the mix will stabilize as well. You’ve got continued asset repricing that happens in there as well. So it’s a little bit of all of it that brings you to the point at, which it starts to trough and inflect. But again, exactly when that’s going to happen, we’ll sort of leave, we’ll leave till later in the year, but we do expect that’ll happen as we get closer to the end of the year.

Understood. Thanks.

The next question will come from Ken Houston of Jefferies. Your line is open.

Hi, thanks. I’m sorry if I’m going to stay on theme, but just as you start to the beginning of the year and deposit price continues to flow through and the mix continues to change. As far as the DDAs, I’m wondering if you could just help us understand, how do you expect that trajectory? DDAs definitely still out flowing, which is expected, but in terms of mix and then just how you expect the deposit rate of change or the downside beta to act through the cycle. Can you help us understand that, Mike? Thanks.

Sure. When you look at what’s happening just on deposits, the trend that we’ve been seeing now on the mix shift has been pretty consistent for the last two or three quarters at least. And so – so at some point that’ll moderate more, but it’s been pretty consistent. And so that’s probably a decent assumption as you sort of go into the first part of the year at least. When you start looking at deposit pricing can later in the year, as rates start to move. On the commercial side, rates and betas have been competitive now and pretty high for a while, and they’ll be just as rate sensitive on the way back down. That’s part of the bargain on the commercial side is, you get good competitive betas on the way up and you also get them on the way down. On the consumer side, there’s been less movement on standard pricing across many of the products, but you’ve had the introduction of CDs and promo rates and all that stuff will start to move down pretty quickly as the expectation for rates do as well.

Okay. So, if I think about that, then would you imply that the first quarter starting point, we see a little bit more of an NII step down and then as you get to that hopeful stabilization in the back half, like just because of how that moves?

Well. I think based on what we gave you, right? So we are expecting a full year NII to be down 7% to 9% hopefully. And if it starts to stabilize as you get to the end of the year, then that implies a step down in the beginning of the year. Exactly, we’re not going to give you a number by quarter, but I – you would – you should expect to step down as you go in the beginning part of the year.

Right. Okay. I understand. Okay. Thanks, Mike.

The next question will come from Scott Siefers of Piper Sandler. Your line is open.

Good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking the question. I was hoping you might be able to spend just another moment on the longer-term cost opportunity. I guess, I’m just curious if there’s a point where some of the investment spending pressures ease and there might still be an opportunity for costs to decline more visibly on an underlying basis or by contrast, is this level of investment spending, is that something that’ll just be sort of pretty consistent year in and year out?

Yes, Scott, it really is going to depend. I will highlight one thing though. In the slide that we have there, we – I noted that part of what’s driving the investment spend this year is the tech and equipment line moving up. And so that won’t continue to move up at that pace forever. And so that does start to moderate as you go out into the future. But as you look at the other investments we’re making, we’re going to try to be very thoughtful about looking at the opportunities that we have across each of the businesses, thinking about short, medium, long-term results and making sure that we’re sort of calibrating all that, right? But I would expect us to continue to make investments in each of the businesses. And I think that ultimately that’s what’s going to drive great returns and better performance over time.

Perfect. Thank you. And then maybe just a question on credit. You all have been very proactive in dealing with sort of the office CRE situation. Just curious to hear how your, what your thoughts are on how this cycle, that asset class sort of plays out from here. Does it just remain a long slog? Or is there perhaps a point where your conservatism has sort of gotten ahead of issues and you might actually be able to relieve a bit of that really healthy double-digit reserve?

Yes. Look, as we look at the reserve, and then I’ll come back to the broader point there, at some point we’ll start using the reserve more fully and then that allowance coverage ratio will come down. No doubt. I mean, that’s the way it should work when you think about CECL and the way the accounting should work. I think, in terms of your broader point, it’s a long movie. We’re still – we’re not – we’re past the opening credits, but we’re still in the beginning of the movie. And so it’s going to take some time for this to play out. And as I noted, it’ll be somewhat of an uneven and episodic sort of nature to the charge offs and as you work through this, because every property has a different timeline in terms of events that it needs to sort of work through. So I do think that we’ve got a while for this to play out through the system.

Okay. Perfect. Thank you very much.

Thank you. The next question comes from Ebrahim Poonawala of Bank of America. Your line is open.

Hey, good morning. I guess maybe just to the – thanks for all the details on NII expenses and the ROTCE. I guess if you had to [ph] and it’s not lost upon anyone with regards to the investments you’ve made in the franchise. But when you look at the slide, fourth quarter 2020 ROTCE 8%, three years fast forward, it’s gone from 8% to 9%. Assuming there’s no real perfect world to operate a bank, from a shareholder perspective, quickly, do you think we can get from 9% to 15%? You’ve given us the moving pieces. But I’m just wondering maybe Charlie, Mike, how do you think about, is it a two-year slog? Is it longer than that? Love some perspective there.

Yes. And I think maybe I’ll start and Charlie can chime in. So I think when you look at that page, Ebrahim, I think you really have to look at the impact of the special assessment that in the results, right? And so that’s four percentage points of ROTCE, so think of the underlying operating performance from a returns perspective, more closer to that 13% range. And so there has been quite a bit of progress since Q4 2020. And then as you sort of look forward, we highlighted some of the key drivers on the right. And in my commentary, look, we’ve got a lot of excess capital despite whatever happens with Basel III. And so we’ve got room to continue to return that to shareholders. We are in the middle of repositioning and the home lending business, which will drive not only good, better returns in that business, but improvement across the franchise. We’ve got the card business, which we’re seeing very good performance in as we’ve launched our new products over the last couple years. And as that matures, we will be meaningful contributor. And then we’ve got continue to get the benefit of all the other investments that we’re making. And so we feel like we’ve made a lot of good progress since the 2020. And then we’ve got really clear plans to continue to see better performance.

And I’ll just add a little bit to it and to be a little bit repetitive. When you look at that slide, again, those are reported numbers. And so, the way we think about it is the earnings power of the company today on an ROTCE basis, you got to make your own assumptions for what’s in and out and what normalized net interest income is because we’ve been clear that we’ve been over earning. But when you look at, when you add back these expenses like FDIC, which relate to the past and this quarter and aren’t going to go forward. Our ROTCE is up 50% from where it was. So that is significant change. On top of that, when we look at the actions, as Mike said, that we’ve taken in the home lending business, when we see the trajectory of growth that we’re seeing in the card business, just as those things mature, let alone being able to deploy the excess capital we have, those are things that are in process. We don’t have to really do anything more other than let them mature and let them play out that is continued movement towards the 15% ROTCE. And then the last thing I’d say is just away from those things. When we got here, these businesses were not on trajectories to grow. The card business wasn’t growing, the corporate investment bank wasn’t growing. You can go through them one by one. And so, as we’ve talked about making investments, offsetting some of these efficiencies that we’ve seen and making determinations on whether or not they’re paying off. Those things that we’re seeing these increases in share, we’re pretty confident that they are going to continue to drive improved results over time. And so, as I said in my remarks, we’re clearly susceptible to market environment both for interest rates and the overall economic environment in the shorter term, but we feel both really good about the progress that we’ve made. We feel really good about what the path we see going forward is recognizing that there’s still a lot more that we have to do.

Got it. That was thorough. Thank you. And just one quick follow-up, Mike, on CRE. I’m assuming you had some assets moved through the – off the balance sheet. I’m just wondering, do – today, relative to a year ago, do you have better visibility on where the clearing prices for some of these non-performing CRE or challenge CRE loans? And are you seeing any pressure spreading beyond CRE offers to other parts of the portfolio in any meaningful way? Thank you.

Yes. Yes. I mean, look, as time goes by, we’ve got – we get better and better information around where things are going to play out. But it is still somewhat specific to the asset. And so I wouldn’t try to generalize yet until we see more transactions and more data points. When you look at the broader CRE market at least in our portfolio, we are not seeing the stress spread to other parts of it.

Helpful. Thank you.

The next question will come from Erika Najarian of UBS. Your line is open.

Hi, good morning. My first question is a follow-up to Ebrahim line of questioning on ROTCE. Charlie, Mike’s right, obviously, you have plenty of excess capital. As we think about your outlook for not much loan growth in 2024, and obviously there’s the asset cap still in place. How should we think about what you’re looking for as Guidepost to potentially accelerate that buyback from the $2.4 billion level? Is it as far out as the Basel III endgame finalization, or would you wait for more clarity near term on the DFAST results in June?

It’s Mike. I’ll take a shot at that Erika. And when you look at the – when you look at our full year numbers, we – I tried to highlight in my comments that we do expect that our repurchases will be higher than what we did in 2023, the exact timing and pace, I’m not going to get into, but and then we’ll look at all of as we do every quarter, we look at all of the different risks that could be out there including, thinking about where CCAR or the stress tests will come out. And from a Basel III perspective, we are in really good shape as we said last quarter. We’re already above where we need to be from a, if it was fully implemented as is, and we’re hopeful that that won’t be the case. And so, and we’re going to generate more capital as we go through the year. And so we’ve got as I said, we’ve got plenty of excess capital. We plan to buy back more stock than we did in 2023 and we’ll leave the exact timing and pace to future calls.

Thank you. And Mike, my follow-up question is another one on NII, I did notice that your short-term borrowings went up a lot in 2023. And just looking at the asset side, it seemed like it was funding that increase in liquidity to $204 billion [ph] cash in cash at the Fed at period end. And I’m wondering, as we’re thinking about your liability mix in 2024, and then I think your average balance sheet size was 1.91 trillion at the end of the year. I’m just wondering if we should expect the balance sheet to shrink because you don’t, you may not need all those short-term borrowings, or is there a reason why you feel like you want to hold that much liquidity at the Fed at this time?

Well, it is certainly possible, the balance sheet will get smaller throughout the year. I think that’ll just be a function of what we ultimately see on loan growth. How much we end up deploying into securities as we go through the year and where it makes sense. We will let the balance sheet just ebb and flow back down. And I think that’s the way we’re sort of thinking about it now. And I think at this point, there’s not a lot of cost to leaving at the Fed given where the – where IORB is. And so that’ll change as rates start to come down and we’ll calibrate the overall size based on what we think the opportunity is.

Thank you.

The next question will come from John Pancari of Evercore ISI. Your line is open, sir.

Good morning. On the NII outlook of down 7% to 9%, can you maybe help us think about the expected net interest margin trajectory through the year? How we should think about that in the context of what you’re expecting in terms of earning asset yields and dynamic on funding costs? Thanks.

Well, we don’t – we’re not going to try to predict exactly where the NIM is going to go quarter by quarter. But I think as you would guess, right, assuming the balance sheets that are a relatively stable size as NII starts to come down, the NIM will compress, right? And there’ll be tailwinds and headwinds related, as the assets as the securities portfolio reprices, that’ll be a tailwind. As you start to see variable rate loans come down, as rates come down, that’ll be a headwind. And so, I think most of it should be relatively simple to kind of estimate as you sort of plug the assumptions into your model, but there’s no sort of magic to it. But you would expect NIM to continue to come down as the balance sheet stays stable and NII comes down.

Okay. All right, thanks. And then separately on commercial real estate, and can you maybe give us a little more color in terms of where you saw the stress, what types of office properties and what type of marks to the underlying assets are you seeing as you’re reappraising the properties? And I guess maybe just talk about the level of confidence you have in the updated 7.9% office reserve at this level.

Yes. And really the allowance I would, allowance coverage ratio I would pay attention to on the slide is our CIB, CRE office portfolio, which is close to 11%. And that’s really the institutional style office buildings where really the stress is coming through. When you look at the charge-offs, it was across a number of properties. It wasn’t one or two. It was pretty geographically dispersed across different cities and across different parts of the country, so there wasn’t an over concentration anywhere. Each of the properties have very specific situations, and so there was a pretty wide range in terms of where the price cleared or where the appraisal came in. A good chunk of these properties are being marked, because we’ve got new appraisals for various reasons. A small amount of it was actually realized, because the note or the property was sold. And so for a good amount of it, we’ll see how it ultimately plays out. There could be recoveries as we go. But it was a pretty, as you would expect, it was a substantial decline in what people thought the value of the properties was just a year or two ago.

Okay, got it. Thanks, Mike.

The next question will come from Gerard Cassidy of RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Good morning, Mike. Good morning, Charlie. Mike on the guide for the net interest income on the forward curve. If the forward curve is incorrect and we’re sitting here a year from now, and rather than seeing a 415 or 416 [ph] Fed funds rate, if it’s close to the 5% or 490, how much of a positive would that be for a higher net interest income for you guys? Have you guys, I’m assuming, use different sensitivity analysis to kind of give yourself a sense of where net interest income could go under different rate scenarios.

Yeah, I would, and just like I think John at McDonald asked it earlier, I would look at our interest rate sensitivity, Gerard, and as I said, we’re still modestly asset sensitive. A little bit less at the end of the fourth quarter than the third quarter. And I think it is a pretty linear sort of equation there. And so I would just look at the 100 basis point move that we have in there. It’s around a couple of billion dollars of move when you look at that as of the end of the third quarter, again, it’ll come in slightly from that likely into – at the end of the fourth quarter and just use whatever assumption you want, and it is a pretty linear. Within reason, it’s a pretty linear equation.

Okay. And then you guys obviously have been very focused on the expense reduction and aberrantable job since you guys all got there obviously. Is there any way that you could bring down the operating losses? I think they’ve been pretty consistent at $1.3 billion for a bit. Is there anything in there that down the road you could change where it would actually fall? Or is it just something that just the cost of doing business with fraud, theft and et cetera?

Well, there’s certainly some portion of that, that will is just the cost of doing business. Now, even on the fraud and BAU operating losses, we, as most people, I would think, are continuing to invest in capabilities to reduce those more and more and that’s we continue to do that as well. And then I think as we continue to put more of the issues, historical issues behind us, hopefully the overall number continues to trend downward.

Great. I appreciate it. Thank you.

The next question comes from Matt O’Connor of Deutsche Bank. Your line is open. Matt O’Connor: Hi. Any thoughts on where card charge-offs go in 2024? I think you’re about 4% this quarter. And I guess you’ve had really good growth. So if we lag it like we used to do in the old days, maybe we get about 4.5%. I don’t know if that’s a good starting point or just any way to frame losses from here. Thanks.

Yes, I won’t give you a specific number, but the way you’re thinking about it is exactly right. I think as you look at the portfolio that we have, which might be a little different than others is, we launched the new product set starting a little over two years ago, but you’ve sort of seen more meaningful new account growth starting about two years ago. And so you’re in that normal maturation curve and seasoning of sort of losses as they come on. And so we would expect that it would continue to trend a little bit higher from where it is. Matt O’Connor: And then, we’re seeing this obviously not just with you guys, but kind of across the board in terms of card losses go up, even though we’re still in this really good environment in terms of employment and wealth and still a bit of excess savings. Just thoughts on what’s driving losses. Again, not just for you, but just for everybody, there’s life events that always happen, but it just feels like maybe card losses are getting a little higher than I would have thought with unemployment where it is, and again, like jobs available and all those dynamics. Thanks.

Yes, and maybe I’ll start. And I think as Charlie kind of highlighted in his script, the averages all look fine when you look at liquidity or deposit balances. And certainly even when you look at the cumulative wage growth that you’ve seen over the last few years, in aggregate, you go, it paints a pretty good picture. But when you go below that, and we’ve tried to highlight this a few times over the last year or so, when you go below that, there are certainly cohorts of clients or people that are stressed. And the further you go down in income levels or the further you go down in wealth levels, the cumulative impact of inflation has really taken a toll. And so you’re going to have some percentage of people that are feeling much more stressed than what the aggregate numbers would imply. And in some cases, their liquidity is going to be lower than it was pre-COVID. In some cases, they’ve been having to build bigger credit card balances. And so for us, it’s not a big part of the overall portfolio, but you’re going to continue to see that, which is something we should all have expected and expect to see as you go forward.

And the only thing I would add is that that’s something that has always existed pre-COVID. Right. There were always people that were doing better and there were people that were doing worse. And I think what’s important, I speak for ourselves, when we look at our card losses, what we actually are looking at is, how they’re performing on a vintage basis versus pre-COVID levels. And the curves are right on top of what that is. And so it’s when we talk about getting back to normal in terms of what we’re seeing, that’s what we’re actually seeing in card losses. We’re not seeing at this point anything that goes beyond that. Matt O’Connor: Okay, that’s helpful. And then just lastly, if I can squeeze in, remind me, like the targeted customer, I think it’s like prime plus. But any way to frame that in terms of whether it’s Spico [ph] or wealth metric or homeowner percent or any way just to frame it, it is becoming a bigger part of the company, obviously so. Thanks.

Yes, look, we’re not going to get that specific, but when you look at like, individual products, they’re targeted towards different cohorts of clients. But what I would say overall, we feel really good about the credit quality of the new accounts we’re putting on. And in most cases, in most products, the credit profile is better than what we have from the historical backbook. Matt O’Connor: Okay, thanks for all the color.

The next question will come from Dave Rochester of Compass Point Research. Your line is open.

Hey, good morning, guys. Sorry for one more question on the NII guide here, but was just curious how much of that decline that you’re expecting for this year is driven by that continued remix of deposits and the lower non-interest bearing deposits you talked about and where are you assuming that DDA mix settles out this year?

Yes, as you would guess, when you lose non-interest bearing deposits or they shift into higher yielding products, that’s going to have a pretty substantial impact. And so, that is a big driver of what the decline is for the rest of the year. We haven’t really talked about exactly where it bottoms, but it should stabilize at some point.

Okay. And then on capital, was curious what more buybacks means for capital ratios and that 2.5% buffer you talked about by the end of 2024. All else equal is the thought that you’ll take those ratios and that buffer lower this year.

We’ll see, but I think, I won’t try to give you a buyback number. Lots of things go into figuring that out throughout the year. But as we said, we expect buybacks to be bigger than last year and, the level assuming that nothing significant happens in the macro environment, the level that we’re at is higher than we need to be.

Great, thanks. Appreciate it.

And our last question will come from Manan Gosalia of Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.

Hey, good morning. Two quick ones for me. I know you said your guide includes stable deposits, but a shift towards interest bearing deposits. Would an end to QT stop that share shift, or is it different, given you’re seeing that share shift from the consumer side?

Yes, what we said is, we expect stable deposits on the wealth and the commercial side. We do expect some declines on the consumer side, and an end to QT would be a positive.

And can you expand on that a little bit? Why would that be?

Well, QT at drains, will at some point more meaningfully drain liquidity out of the banking system. Right. So once you get the RRP facility down to a smaller number, which is likely to happen, then any further QT starts to really remove liquidity more directly out of the banking system and so that stops. That’s a positive for deposits.

Got it. Okay. And then just on credit, how do falling rates impact your outlook for CRE losses at the margin? Do you feel better about working with borrowers and mitigating losses and NPLs and how long this takes to work out, or have things not changed that meaningfully yet?

Hasn’t changed that meaningful yet. Really. We’re dealing with what is a structural change in sort of demand for real estate in some parts of the country. And so you got to work through that. And then I think on the margin, lower rates are helpful, but the bigger issue needs to get worked through first.

Great. Thank you.

Okay, thanks, everyone, for the questions – next time.

Thank you all for your participation on today’s conference call. At this time, all parties may disconnect.