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Welltower Inc. (WELL)

Q1 2010 Earnings Call· Tue, May 4, 2010

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the Health Care REIT first quarter 2010 earnings conference call. My name is Tina and I will be your operator today. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. We will be facilitating a question-and-answer session towards the end of this conference. (Operator Instructions) As reminder, this conference is being recorded for replay purposes. Now, I would like to turn the call over to Mr. Jim Bowe, Vice President of Communications for Health Care REIT. Please go ahead, sir.

Jim Bowe

President

Thank you, Tina. Good morning, everyone and thank you for joining us today for Health Care REIT's first quarter 2010 conference call. In the event you did not receive a copy of the news release distributed late yesterday afternoon, you may access it via the company's website at www.hcreit.com. I'd like to remind everyone that we are holding a live webcast of today's call which maybe accessed through the company's website as well. Certain statements made during this conference call maybe deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Although Health Care REIT believes results projected in any forward-looking statements are based on reasonable assumptions, the company can give no assurance that projected results will be obtained. Factors and risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements are detailed in the news release and from time to time in the company's filings with the SEC. I'd like to now turn the call over to George Chapman, Chairman, CEO and President of Health Care REIT for his opening remarks. Please go ahead, George.

George Chapman

Chairman

Thank you, Jim. This morning I will discuss our current portfolio and its performance, our success in positioning the portfolio to meet the needs of our customers going forward as well as the progress with our entrance fee communities. I will then focus on the growth platform that we have built. Our portfolio is strong and diverse with coverages of about two to one and our top five and 10 operators comprise only 25% and 37% of our portfolio respectively. More importantly in medical facilities that is hospital's medical office buildings and life science buildings have become a very significant part of the portfolio currently comprising 40%. We are establishing important relationships with health systems resulting in investments in modern customer-centric hospitals and medical office buildings and our life sciences and investments have added another property type that enhances our diversification as well as our offerings to health systems. Clearly these investments provide meaningful portfolio diversification as well as investment opportunity. We have acquired the Windrose and Rendina MOBs several years ago. We also acquired property management capabilities and we made it clear at that time that we will produce a very strong MOB portfolio and property management team. And we are very pleased with our progress in doing so. As we have culled through the MOB portfolio, eliminating smaller unaffiliated MOBs while at the same time investing in larger customer-friendly MOBs affiliated with excellent health systems. With our recent Aurora acquisition, our MOB occupancy now stands at 93%. The percentage of on-campus and affiliated MOBs was up to 80% and heading toward our near term goal of 90%. The average size of our MOB portfolio has increased from 39,000 square feet in 2006 to 52,000 square feet today and is continuing to increase. Generally we believe that MOBs will…

John Thomas

Management

Thank you, George. Before I begin, we would like to recognize the dedicated members of the health care team located in international office. As many of you know the region has been devastated over the weekend by flooding. While our office and MOBs in the area are all fine, we have been able to and we both have been able to account all of our associates and they are fine. Our thoughts and prayers go out to them and the people of Nashville as they work through their painful losses and recovery. (Inaudible) healthcare reforms, the healthcare reform margin historically been we've been following the legislated discussions closely for over a year to access the information from a number of Washington insiders including members of Congress on both sides of the aisle, (inaudible) consultants and a close of Health Care REIT former Secretary of Health and Human Services, Tommy Thompson. We believe the new laws will have a favorable impact in our portfolio and opportunities for growth where we all agree with the years before you know with the laws of expense and exactly who has been affected most. Perhaps the best thing about the legislation for now is certainty and a move from debate toward implementation. I would like to take a few minutes to discuss specific implications on our portfolio. Medical office buildings in hospitals, we anticipate a continued evolution of medical office space away from office buildings towards larger ambulatory care centers. But it's not clear that there's will necessarily be a demand for more total office space. While Congress and the administration estimates $30 million more insured over the next five or 10 years, the number of positions is not changing. With the current and growing charge of divisions, hospitals will continue to recruit available physicians…

Scott Estes

Chief Financial Officer

Thanks John. Good morning everyone. As George mentioned we've been one of the most active REITs in our sector in terms of new investments. Our current portfolio performance has been steady through the economic downturn, while our liquidity, credit metrics and debt maturity schedule remain strong and put us in position to continue to grow the portfolio. Turning to the details of the quarter, we completed $585 million of growth investments which included the acquisition of medical office building leased to Aurora healthcare and our life sciences joint venture with Forest City Enterprises. We had $33 million of dispositions and loan payouts resulting in net new investment of $552 million. We also started two excellent development projects during the quarter, the first is 153,000 square foot, 72% pre-leased, on-campus medical office building in Murrieta, California providing such services as radiation oncology, cardiology and neurosurgery. This will be the only MOB on the campus that the HCN owned hospital sponsored by Loma Linda University Medical Center. Our second project is the 52,000 square foot 100% pre-leased medical office building that the cancer center on the campus is Tallahassee Memorial Hospital in Tallahassee, Florida. Including these new projects, we have only $193 million of unfunded development commitments and that we successfully delivered another $164 million of development during the first quarter. I'll now touch on the acquisitions which have closed or expected to close subsequent to quarter end. In April we completed two acquisitions of capital senior living totaling $85 million. This includes the previously announced $49 million portfolio consisting of five assisted living facilities in Nebraska and Iowa and then near $36 million portfolio consisting of three assisted living in dimension care facilities in Indiana. These assets are leased under a 15 year initial term at a starting rental yield of…

Operator

Operator

(Operator Instructions) First question will come from the line of Craig Schmidt with Banc of America/Merrill Lynch. Craig Schmidt - Banc of America/Merrill Lynch: Tell me your outlook for acquisitions, the total market for the remainder of 2010, I see that you have raised your upper end but now it is the four months that we have seen a good indication of activity for the rest of the year? Or do you actually expect the entire market to pick up in activity?

George Chapman

Chairman

That's a difficult question to answer. We had a very good first quarter and I don't think that can be indicative of our year at least. Our benefit really comes from our full spectrum investing and John and his team are finding a lot of great health system related investments and Chuck side, Chuck Hermon side, we really cover the country and are finding our share of investments. So no cap rates are pretty low as frankly. There hasn't been much of an adjustment. So we have to work hard to find the right risk adjusted investment. So I mean I think people are working hard in our REIT and other REITs and others specialty lenders and there is a lot of competition, and I think we are going to get more than our share. I wouldn't want to say anything more at this stage. Craig Schmidt - Banc of America/Merrill Lynch: And your acquisitions directors and they focus on a certain type of health care asset or they work the entire breadth of the area.

George Chapman

Chairman

And Chuck is responsible for senior housing which encompasses independent living all the way through skilled nursing and more often than not, his team can end up finding investments that can be turned over to John's team and vice versa. It really is very much opportunistic. On the other hand, I would not at all be surprised to see as a gravity towards nearly 50-50 split over time between the medical facilities area on one hand and our senior housing on the other. But it is very much opportunistic. We are looking for good and very good buildings that are future oriented that take into account the customer preferences that are being asserted even more strongly as each year ensues. And we are looking for the best operators and the best health systems because we really found that by finding the good grade health systems that we want to bring the best care and by looking to operators who have a history of delivering cost effective attrition to services that we do pretty well. And one of the things we found is that we are 60 or more operators that are part of our sort of ongoing relationship groups in the senior housing that we have recurring business that some people may or may not have with good relationships with health systems. We think we will get recurring business but it is really hard to say exactly what ratio they will come under in the remainder of the year or for two year period. I think we are going to move towards about 50-50 split over time.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Jay Haberman with Goldman Sachs.

Jay Haberman - Goldman Sachs

Management

Just want to focus on the joint venture relationship or partnership that you have now at Forest City in the life sciences side. Can you speak to opportunities you mentioned looking for some acquisitions. I am just wondering, can you talk about your conversations with Forest City and perhaps what you are seeing at this point in the market, cause this is a fairly competitive landscape at this point I would say in that segment?

John Thomas

Management

Jay this is John Thomas, I think that's the fair assumption about the market we are seeing some, the way our relationship works with Forest City is very collaborative we are not obligated to take the opportunities we find and vice versa but that is in fact how we're operating in the partnership really across the country and some of the major life science markets and communities. We are seeing some uptick in activity with kind of corporate campuses and again some hospital-related development opportunities. So we are seeing more activity in seeing some competitive things and again some of the things we are looking at our, I would say some one-off market and being brought to us by through our relationships

Jay Haberman - Goldman Sachs

Management

And I just want to switch back to senior housing for a moment in the CCRCs they clearly have been impacted by the downturn thus far, I know you have talked in the past about reducing your exposure but I am just wondering if you think this might be an opportunity in the next two and three years as you start to see the housing markets recover.

George Chapman

Chairman

In my opening comments I think I have confirmed your view that we believe that our independent living and maybe to a lesser extent CCRCs will benefit from the uptick in the economy and the improving housing market and maybe more importantly the demand supply relationship. So we re bullish, on the other hand, we have to see our performance in our CCRC ranks and there is always a possibility that we will find an opportunity for one of our good operators or have an opportunity with another operator that we like to do something it can do a CCRC type of investment or something, we have got those at the right price and with the right operator and the right market. I can't say we wouldn't do that. But right now we are looking for performance and we will make those assessments as opportunities incur. Just I think a year or so ago, we purchased a distressed CCRC for Donald Thompson senior living communities at what we thought was $0.50 on the dollar and the fill up in the sales have been slow. It just hasn't anticipated but we think it was very good value. So we never say never.

Jay Haberman - Goldman Sachs

Management

Okay lastly you didn't change the disposition guidance I mean should we take this is just not a good time to sell or why not take advantage of the capital on the sidelines and you will continue to reposition the portfolio in your underperforming assets.

George Chapman

Chairman

Right now our disposition guidance remains the same, many of the folks that buy us out go to the agencies. The agency re-financings tend to move on very slowly. There are other ways to do those re-financing seems specially lenders, to some degree bonds and all of those take some time and we will also be by year-end whether or not they will get done.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Rich Anderson with BMO Capital Markets

Rich Anderson - BMO Capital Markets

Management

I guess the kind of make sure is it maybe semantics George but you said you're combing the market, 50% of your interest potentially could be in the MOB area. But the comment was made that maybe the office business would not see infiltration of interest from reform. It will be more on the ambulatory side, are you just using MOB as more of the broader term including the ambulatory care or how do you.

George Chapman

Chairman

More and more (Inaudible) its hard to tell a difference doing it in most of our we probably prefer to have ASCs or Ambulatory Surgery Centers in most of our medical office buildings and today you can't even see the differences between the old 30,000 and 40,000 square foot MOBs without ASCs and today's so called MOBs that could be 150,000 or 250,000 square feet with an ASC with lowness, with full spectrum of testing, it's just night and day. John you want to add anything?

John Thomas

Management

I would just add that we're using this somewhat generically to include early a 50-50 split from senior housing and chief medical including hospitals and life sciences as well. So again as George said before, it's really opportunistic and where we see the biggest, the best and kind of brightest opportunities been. The emerging opportunities across the spectrum and most of our development stars are exactly as George described larger on campus, ambulatory care centers that are very integral to them (inaudible).

Rich Anderson - BMO Capital Markets

Management

Okay I understood, want to clarify that. You mentioned also investment enthusiasm and its big team in this call today and how reform again getting back to that could play a positive role but it seems to me that's a very long-term factor and maybe the shorter term factor from an investment standpoint for you might be hospitals getting squeezed from Medicaid getting pull back on them and hence having to seek out third parties. Do you think that that's the right way to think about in terms of how you get involved in the near term, is it more of Medicaid squeezing phenomenon or is it really reform this year that will drive investment.

John Thomas

Management

This is John again, across our portfolio in our government payer as part of our percentage of payer mixes is relatively low and Medicaid is even very small portion of that. So, again in the near term the opportunity is in the health system building larger building institutes capture the physicians supplied us out there and the higher quality physicians and again that's part of our life sciences thesis as well because those physicians are looking for not only clinical opportunities but research and clinical development opportunities as well. That's really the near-term but again as suite of Medicaid will have some impact on mid lower and skilled nursing but in longer term we see the up take picking up the hospital system is trying to attract the highest in best demographic patients.

George Chapman

Chairman

We see the evolution, the change in Health Care is being the market driving different types of buildings real estate platforms, out patient surgeries today you get systems that are doing 60% or 65% in some systems out patient procedures as opposed to in-patient. With customers demanding different and better care and a better environment frankly the hospitals and the health systems have to build or substantially renovate to have better space to perform and that's where we position ourselves, wanted helps a little bit that some of the foundation's firms are down a bit because of the market. It hopes I guess that bonds have been somewhat less predictable the last two or three years for the systems. But maybe more important in the long run is our ability to go to systems and provide solutions and that can be development, it can be consultative, it can be managing the MOB to separate the hospital from any possible fraud and abuse issues and ultimately then to provide the funds and built of the new customer centric facilities. That is really the trend that we're on, just which is analogous to what we're doing in senior housing. So we're very bullish about our opportunity to make new investments.

Rich Anderson - BMO Capital Markets

Management

Could you comment on your CapEx exposure for life science in the joint venture if its material?

John Thomas

Management

No (inaudible) material, we have set a reserve for none of leases there, the tenants. These are more or like absolute net leases where we're responsible for kind of core and roof and that the tenant's responsible for everything else. We have an appropriate reserve there but in the long-term need and frankly most of the buildings are newer. We feel like we're being conservative but not a high exposure to CapEx there.

Rich Anderson - BMO Capital Markets

Management

Unfunded development you mentioned $193 million of unfunded development commitments right now but that number grows right over the course of the year. So if you're considering $300 to $400 million new store. Where do you think that that unfunded development commitment number goes to over the course of the year?

Scott Estes

Chief Financial Officer

You're correct. It necessary to get to the $300 to $400 million guidance, it does imply a few new starts and I think we said we are selectively looking at development that again is supplement to our acquisition growth this year, so I guess its tough to take a number but probably maybe another $100 to $200 million is the number that would be necessary to get to the aggregate $300 million to $400 million of funding this year.

Rich Anderson - BMO Capital Markets

Management

Okay, so it's simple math really. And then finally you mentioned the housing market impact on CCRCs and senior housing, but can you make that same analogy to the entrance to the model? In another words are you willing to start looking at that area as a place to invest as you are with CCRCs in the more generic product.

George Chapman

Chairman

We think the rental units are going to come back faster. Okay we think that there is real opportunity in the dementia space. And that's going to be more of our priority because we think its going to take our first. We will look very carefully at potential of buying opportunities but there are going to have to be awfully good for us to be looking at them seriously during the next quarter or so. But you never know.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Todd Stender with Wells Fargo Securities.

Todd Stender - Wells Fargo Securities

Management

Hi guys, first question just on the new construction to facilities that you broke ground on in the quarter. What's the impact of the economy having on your decision to break ground? Were these on schedule? Have they been delayed and what's the timing look like in the stuff you will break ground on for the remainder of the year?

John Thomas

Management

The two medical office buildings we announced, one is cancer center on Tallahassee memorial campus. This is one where it's a 100% mass released to the hospital and you know frankly that the economy is allowing us to get building materials and other construction cost at lower than would have been two years ago. So its excellent timing from a cost perspective and the hospital systems related for small period of time. But really no expectation or there's no real impact in the economy on that project. The on campus building for low ma Linda is attached to the hospitals that we are building Loma Linda University of Medical Center, Murrieta. Very large projects again if you know California hospitals and hospital construction. You try and need as much outside of the hospital building yourself into medical office buildings today because of the hospice requirements and just a cost per foot of the hospital versus medical office building. And completion of that building near the same time as opening of the hospital is discreetly important and we've had tremendous success in pre leasing with positions, the hospital and other kind of institutional tenants in that building that are synergistic with the hospital there. So again, same result in the economy we were able to lower our budgeted cost on steel and concrete and other supplies and frankly in that community and providing a lot of jobs that or otherwise needed so we are very well received in that community.

Todd Stender - Wells Fargo Securities

Management

And Scott for the HUD financing you are expecting later this quarter, I think it started at $85 million. Could that come in still? Is that number moving around at all?

Scott Estes

Chief Financial Officer

I think it's moving around a little bit Ted, I think we're pretty comfortable that 80 is going to be closer to the final number and right around the 5% range. That should happen we think right before the end of the second quarter.

Todd Stender - Wells Fargo Securities

Management

And how many skilled nursing facilities will secure that debt?

Scott Estes

Chief Financial Officer

Its fixed.

Todd Stender - Wells Fargo Securities

Management

And how long is that for, is that 10 year paper?

Scott Estes

Chief Financial Officer

Yes, it is.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Tayo Okusanya with Jefferies & Company. Tayo Okusanya - Jefferies & Company: Just a couple of quick questions. In the supplemental page, I believe the conversion estimates for 2Q 10, you mentioned that there is one fairly large CCRC project of $111 million and you haven't been able to determine the yield on yet?

Scott Estes

Chief Financial Officer

I will take that one Tayo, I think we are trying to be just more practical contractually that yield initially was scheduled to be 10% and that's how we were listening it in the supplement previously. And I think we have been pretty transparent in the likelihood that we think in a more like 6% it should be the average start rate for most of our entrance fee communities. And so until we actually determine the rate and its not finalized at this point we felt more appropriate just to be determined as opposed to higher unrealistic rate. Tayo Okusanya - Jefferies & Company: But you do expect that kind of will come in around the 6% of all the others have been coming in at this point.

Scott Estes

Chief Financial Officer

Our average is fixed and we still haven't finalized this one yet. Tayo Okusanya - Jefferies & Company: That's the first things and then kind of thing about your growth strategy, one of the few companies, you are not only one now who is actively making acquisitions and you have also begun some development as well and your guidance seems to imply yet another $100 million to $200 million of development? I guess the way you are approaching things seems to be fairly different from what we have seen from some of your other counterparts except say maybe NHP in regards to how quickly you are moving versus your growth engines versus some people who think its still be a bit more gun shy, I don't know just curious you feel it's the right time to be as aggressive when some of your peers still seem to be backing off.

George Chapman

Chairman

I want John and Scott to come on in this too but we've used virtually every down period, whether it was the old change to SNIP reimbursement years ago to this period, to really plan for additional acquisitions and development coming out, out of the bad period. So I think that we have done a pretty good job over the years of planning for being prepared to move forward and we have a lot over relationships both within the senior housing and the acute care space so that when we are ready to go, when we can alert our operators. And to that point they find great deals for us, I mean they are an important part of John and Chuck's marketing team if you will. And I think it's just as the ability to invest across a full spectrum to provide other services and because of the relationships that go back decades in some cases allows us to come out of the gate pretty quickly. We think there are some very good volumes there. We think we are building some awfully good facilities that will stand the test of time and so this has just been our approach to doing business I think its going to pay off very handsomely first. John you want to add-in.

John Thomas

Management

I think I mentioned this in my comment as before, they certainly of health care reform has kind of unleashed hospitals to move forward projects that they had attended last year due to both the economy and trying to assess what the health care reform legislation is going to look like. So we had a fairly deep of a pipeline of projects that were somewhat on hold with the hospitals I mentioned the Tallahassee cancer center has somewhat been an example of that. And so again with certainly reformed the opening of the capital markets and still working with hospitals that see a necessity of moving forward more aggressively now, than they were six months ago. So we get its really very opportunistic and strong occupancy on the development and strong, strong yields in this market. Tayo Okusanya - Jefferies & Company: Okay just one other question, in regards to health care reform I would appreciate that if guys could touch a little bit on how you think bundling may end up impacting the post of acute care world especially with the [L-tax], and as well as skilled nursing if you are getting any indication of that at this point.

John Thomas

Management

That's a great question I think the legislation has written is provided for demonstration projects that you know will last three to four years. I think the hospital system see some certainty that bundling will occur between the hospital and the (Inaudible) settings as I mentioned before. Certainly aligning within patient rehab aligning with long-term acute care and then over time reestablishing alignment with certain skilled nursing facilities as well, the bonding will take a few years to work to do demonstrations but, again the people primarily, depending our office of the legislation believe in bundling is a future necessity of controlling both the cost of care but quality of care. And so hospital systems are seeing that necessity and trying to align with those both acute care providers. As I mentioned before, side servicing neutrality is build within a concept of bundling about the payment systems where if the patient could be treated in and in patient rehab for long-term acute care facility or skill nursing facility eventually decide a service neutrality will pay each of those three facilities the same amount for that patient something that the skill nursing facility has been pushing forward for sometime and has some success in establishing that as a long term objective of the reform legislation.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Michael (inaudible) with AIG Asset Management.

Unidentified Analyst

Management

Just of the due disclosure on page 23 of supplemental, could you give us a sense as to the thought process one around, up the one of breaking out since the (inaudible) and to removing the interest fee portfolio. And then also the coverage metrics of the operator level basis other than due disclosure, can you tell us what that would have been maybe 4Q and then 4Q of last year?

Scott Estes

Chief Financial Officer

You're breaking up a little bit I think I got the gist of your question. In regards to our decision to consolidate the (inaudible) buckets into the senior housing methodology, if you look at it, it's actually about 80% of our assets there, our combination thereof, so and it's generally similar disclosure in the industry. I think you can look a few pages later we did give the restated trends on senior housing. You can see the trailing results on a combined basis, over a number of quarters and to answer your coverage question, I think coverage is down one or two basis points sequentially this quarter in the senior housing area.

Unidentified Analyst

Management

And then just of the equity interest investments on consolidated JVs. You reported the $298 million, how is that flowing through to the balance sheet in terms of where does it be accounted for because the equity investments are actually showing 165 of (inaudible)?

Scott Estes

Chief Financial Officer

Right and the equity investment line is our equity component is about $160 million is new year there this quarter and these secured debt is about $142 million and that is off balance sheet but disclosed elsewhere in the supplement.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Jerry Doctrow with Stifel Nicolaus.

Dan Bernstein - Stifel Nicolaus

Management

This is Dan Bernstein going in for Jerry. I wanted to go back to the deferred rent on the lease up properties. Now that you have disclosed in the occupancy and the entrance CCRC, do you have a general range of where that occupancy has to go before your operators will feel comfortable payment the deferred rent?

Scott Estes

Chief Financial Officer

I think the perspective there as we look at that, you have to look at the aggregate portfolio with each operator but if you look at an individual facility and the decision to stabilize the three entrance fees that were stabilized this quarter all have over 85% occupancy. Once we get to that 80% aggregate occupancy we think you can support a rental yield of at least 8%. So that maybe a metric you could think of in terms of watching aggregate occupancy in terms of our ability to potentially start to recover some of these deferred rents over time.

Dan Bernstein - Stifel Nicolaus

Management

And also want a more general question on the acquisitions, are you seeing any pick up in interest from the health systems to monetize our assets post healthcare reform?

John Thomas

Management

I would say yes, there was not a lot of system monetization last year but I think fair to say we're in discussions with a number of health systems today looking for either monetizing existing assets or looking at refinancing in new and different ways for begin to move forth with existing projects that they put on hold standing legislation but the number of calls and the number of hour, the amount of activity has increased dramatically over the last 90 days.

Dan Bernstein - Stifel Nicolaus

Management

Is it mostly focused on MOBs, are they also looking to sell part of their hospital campus (inaudible).

John Thomas

Management

Yeah I think we're very reluctant to sell hospitals that are looking at alternative financing for either hospital expansions or new hospitals. (Inaudible) bond market is still somewhat a disruption and again I think they are looking for different and creative ways to finance their hospital expansions but on the post acute care facilities again, many of them are aligning with operators. Fair to say all of our operators are working hard to joint venture or otherwise establish relationships with hospitals systems, in a kind of bundled environment or future so there is more monetization and development opportunity for hospitals in that context.

Dan Bernstein - Stifel Nicolaus

Management

And George you mentioned that pricing is kind of a low for acquisitions. Do you see the cap rates coming down at all over the next say 12 months given where cost of capital is today?

George Chapman

Chairman

It's been really difficult to figure out how cost of capital and cap rates relate if at all during the last some of these periods of exuberance, irrational or otherwise so that's hard to answer. I do not see cap rates going up at all. There is a lot of competition out there and I am glad we have a very broad reach to be and a great Relationships formed over many years or this could be a fairly difficult senior housing acquisition marketplace.

Operator

Operator

(Operator Instructions). Our next question will come from the line Michael Mueller with JPMorgan.

Michael Mueller - JPMorgan

Management

Actually most of my questions have been answered but just one in terms of just the presentation of normalized FFO. You have acquisition in the guidance but doesn't appear that you're putting the acquisition cost or factoring that into normalized FFO. Two questions, number one what you see is a general rule of thumb for the acquisition cost on a go forward basis and then secondly, why are you guys excluding that from normalized FFO.

Scott Estes

Chief Financial Officer

I think you know this is the first quarter you're required to expense these transaction acquisition costs as they are incurred. And I think if we said the majority of the cost this quarter were actually related to buying back the debt associated with this or Aurora portfolio and some of those charges. So, exclusive of that, I don't the numbers is very large and we'll basically will provide it for you, we'll break it out and is very hard to predict because we don't know what we're going to have from quarter-to-quarter if any and we'll continue to disclose it and in our opinion we'll back it out of normalized numbers. No additional costs there are included in our guidance.

Operator

Operator

(Operator Instructions). Our next question will come from the line of Dustin Pizzo with UBS

Ross Nussbaum - UBS

Management

Hi Ross Nussbaum here with Dustin. I am looking for a supplemental on page six of the balance sheet, can you help me get my arms around the $78 million of loan receivable that's on non-accrual. What's going to be resolution of that?

John Thomas

Management

The number is least over the last year so has remained at about that level. And I think we are providing everybody get in general disclosure on our loan portfolio. If you look at our loan portfolio in aggregate it's down about 6% or 7% of our whole company. It's $444 million this quarter, as we said there is actually three of our operators that are in our Top 10 actually make up about $260 million of that $444 million total about 60% of that. And we are very comfortable with those loans. And of the rest, really, what's happened over the last year, we generally get our hands full of loans the primary composition of the loans that are on non-accrual or the early stage senior housing operators, more the independent living or have a sale component to them and the number really hasn't changed too much. So I guess as you do your quarterly accrual investment and lone lost reserve analysis it's really contingent upon forward-looking and looking out often times as many as five to seven years to assess the value of those loans. And we think we are being conservative by not accruing any interest there and unfortunately take a little bit of time and to assess the ultimate value of the principal there. So we choose to put them on non-accrual and as those sales in projects will take some time to revolve that's why it stated at the level it has been there for a while.

Ross Nussbaum - UBS

Management

I wonder those loans technically mature.

George Chapman

Chairman

I don't have the average for that in front me, you guys know that?

John Thomas

Management

No I have to get that one for you.

Ross Nussbaum - UBS

Management

I think where I am going with this is it would be great if we could get a page on the supplemental that maybe raise out the credit staffs for that loan receivable category did go through, what's the debt service coverage, what's the loan to value, what rate again, when do they mature? What's in there because other than that one number on the balance sheet there is really no disclosure on it?

George Chapman

Chairman

We received the question and I guess I just pointed out that it is 1% of the portfolio but we do receive questions so we try to evaluate that as best we can.

Operator

Operator

There are no further questions at this time. And I would like to turn the call back to Mr. Chapman for closing remarks.

George Chapman

Chairman

Thank you for your participation and note that Scott will be available today for any follow-up questions. Thank you.