Earnings Labs

TXNM Energy, Inc. (TXNM)

Q4 2017 Earnings Call· Wed, Feb 28, 2018

$58.96

-0.03%

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good morning and welcome to The PNM Resources Reports Fourth Quarter and Year End Results Conference Call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. [Operator Instructions] After today's presentation there will be an opportunity to ask questions. [Operator Instructions] Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Jimmie Blotter, Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Jimmie Blotter

Analyst

Thank you, Andrew. And thank you everyone for joining us this morning for the PNM Resources fourth quarter 2017 earnings conference call. Please note that the presentation for this conference call and other supporting documents are available on our Web site at pnmresources.com. Joining me today are PNM Resources, Chairman, President and CEO, Pat Vincent-Collawn; and Chuck Eldred, our Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer as well as several other members of our Executive Management team. Before I turn the call over to Pat, I need to remind you that some of the information provided this morning should be considered forward-looking statements pursuant to the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. We caution you that all of the forward-looking statements are based upon current expectations and estimates and that PNM Resources assumes no obligation to update this information. For a detailed discussion of factors affecting PNM Resources results, please refer to our current and future Annual Report on Form 10-K, quarterly reports on Form 10-Q as well as reports on Form 8-K filed with the SEC. With that, I will turn the call over to Pat.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Thank you, Jimmie and good morning everyone. Thank you for joining us today on this beautiful sunny International Polar Bear Day. Let's begin on Slide 4 with the financial results and some key highlights of the year. Our GAAP earnings per share in the fourth quarter of 2017 reflect a loss of $0.68, while the full year reflects earnings of $1. The enactment of tax reform in December resulted in a $0.72 per share non-recurring expense. Ongoing earnings per share were $0.24 for the fourth quarter and $1.94 for the full year. Last week, we revised our guidance expectations for 2018 and 2019 primarily to reflect the outcome of the PNM general rate review and the impact of tax reform. Chuck will get into the details of these results in future expectations in a few minutes. Which brings me to our key highlights for 2017. PNM's100th year in business was an eventful year. We worked through a settlement in our PNM general rate review, which I'll talk more about on the next slide. At the same time the transformation of PNM's generation portfolio begin to take shape. We filed our Integrated Resource Plan in July showing that we plan to seek approval to retire the remaining San Juan unit after 2022 and exit our participation in the Four Corners power plant in 2031 resulting in a coal-free generation portfolio. To replace this energy, we will seek approval for cleaner resources. Together these actions would lead to a dramatic reduction in carbon emission which we've outlined in more detail in a climate change report that we published on our Web site. We have already achieved a significant reduction in carbon emissions 40% over 2012 levels as a result of the December retirement of units 2 and 3 at San Juan. The…

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Thank you, Pat, and good morning, everyone and thank you for joining us today. Let's start with a discussion of tax reform on Slide 7 before getting into the quarterly results, guidance and updates to our growth targets. Since tax reform came out, we've been working through the impacts to our books. As a result deferred tax assets and liabilities on the balance sheet were revalued with a new 21% income tax rate from the previous 35% rate. Changes to the balances that were associated with items collected through regulated rates were reclassified to regulatory liabilities and were returned to customers over time. However, when the change was associated with an item that is not recovered through retail rates, the change was recorded to the income statement. This resulted in a total non-cash non-recurring charge of $57.5 million in 2017. Looking forward, the impact of the lower tax rate is consistent with our message during the past year. The regulated utilities will pass the benefit through to customers beginning in 2018 and corporate and other will have a $0.02 hit to EPS because of the lower tax benefit on the losses in that segment. We continue to believe that we do not have any material exposure under the interest expense allocation methodology for the holding company that is used across the industry and supported by EI. Although no firm guidance has been released by the IRS at this point related to how to apply the 30% EBITDA limitation. With the elimination of bonus depreciation for utility plant placed into service beginning October 2017, booking tax depreciation will start to line-up more closely. As a result, the ADIT liability balances will be reduced and this will cause an increase in rate base compared to what it would have been otherwise. As…

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

[Technical Difficulty] generation creates opportunities to take advantage of New Mexico's abundant sunshine and wind. According to the National Renewable Energy Laboratory. New Mexico has the second highest technical potential in the continental United States for utility solar photovoltaics and is 6th for technical potential for land based wind. Our focus will be to develop a new generation portfolio that moves to increased renewable resources. As we have stated in our climate change report the company will seek to reduce annual CO2 emissions by 2040 to 87% below 2012 levels. To maintain system reliability, we'll need to invest in storage or backup power resources and also need to expand our transmission system. We are confident that we'll be able to execute on our plan and prioritize capital investment to achieve the earnings potential of the business. Thanks again for joining us today. Operator let's open it up for questions.

Operator

Operator

We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Nicholas Campanella of Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead.

Nicholas Campanella

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Hey, good morning. Happy National Polar Bear Day.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Thank you, Nick.

Nicholas Campanella

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

There was a small shift in your earnings power supply in 2021. Can you just discuss the drivers there? I think it was just rate based growth maybe offset by a little bit more dilution but can you discuss that quick?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Yes. I mean you're right on. Actually if you look at the PNM retail, it's about $0.04 increase. So keep in mind we adjusted for the debt return on Four Corners that reduced rate base. But then we had a slight increase in rate base as a result of the changes to the tax reform. And so that impact -- that was about $0.04. And then to your other point, we modify the change in the stock price to be more reflective at current stock values which create a little more dilution on the -- at the market program with the issuance of $50 million to $100 million. Keep in mind that it will be variable based on what we assume to be stock values going forward and we'll adjust at appropriate times. But those are the main drivers that I think would probably reflect some of the questions that you had.

Nicholas Campanella

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Got it. Thanks. And then just from a long-term perspective as you scale this renewable JV that you recently announced in your 8-K last week, do you have goals to make that a certain percentage of earnings or is it more of an opportunistic play at this point?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

To be fair to say a more opportunistic, we did this to provide a opportunity to serve large customers and also serve public entities within New Mexico that have an interest in renewables, while maintaining a focus on our balance sheet on the regulated business. So we wouldn't stretch ourself to the situation of using that as a growth vehicle as much as a opportunity to serve customers or interested parties that want renewables and then optimize the 50% relationship with AEP to allow for that investment capital.

Nicholas Campanella

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Got it. Thanks so much. See you in Boston.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Okay.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Thank you. Stay warm.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Ali Agha of SunTrust. Please go ahead.

Ali Agha

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

Thank you. Good morning.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

Hi, Ali.

Ali Agha

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

Good morning. First question, Chuck can you remind us -- the fact that the 2017 results ended up coming in above even the high-end of your guidance range. What was the main driver for that?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

Well, really all the adjustments on tax reform and the final rate case outcome would really be the net to that go against the increase that reflected 2018 earnings. And we can go over the details. Jimmie and Lisa can walk you through that. But it's just really the adjustments on the net effect to the final rate order in the tax reform adjustment.

Ali Agha

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

We are talking 2017, right?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

I'm sorry. I was thinking that…

Ali Agha

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

But I'm just talking about this year; you came in at a $1.94. Your high end was $1.90 just curious what drove you above your guidance range?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

Yes. Sorry about that.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

We have moved into 2018. All right already.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

I'm already heavy. No. I think as I pointed out in my comments the market performance that we saw was very strong in the fourth quarter on our NDT. And that provided some additional earnings as we rebalance that portfolio as we previously discussed in our prior calls for NDT assets.

Ali Agha

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

I see.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

And that really what's -- that's really what drove the earnings to be over the guidance level.

Ali Agha

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

Got it. And then, separately in New Mexico and I'm just wondering your customer growth continues to be steady as you said. Any sense that the usage patterns or whatever energy efficiency impacts of stabilizing was still in the negative category in your guidance range for load is flat to down still. But anything you can point to say maybe we have bottomed out on the load growth trend there.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

Well, it still is a very slow recovering economy. We've seen a slight increase in the residential growth from 2017 to 2018. We still see some slight negative decrease in the commercial side. And then as I mentioned Facebook will be using some of the system load until they work their way into 100% renewables and that helps provide some stability in our load profile for the next couple of years.

Ali Agha

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

Okay. And last question as you pointed out off the 2018 base, you're looking at a 6% EPS CAGR through 2021. But if we do it at 2019, which is when you get the full impact of the rate case, since it still being phased in through 2018, the growth rate kind of slows down closer to around 4% or so. And I'm just wondering as you look at 2021 and I know you got 2022 CapEx as well. Is that a more realistic sort of longer term growth rate to think about once we get the full case impact in 2019 or could there be further upside as you're thinking about growth in that long-term outlook?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

Well, I mentioned too that that 2022 certainly when you get to that capital allocation that we have in the budget you can begin to think about replacement power as I mentioned grid modernization possibly a PNM, some additional investments in TNMP. So there are some opportunities we're seeing some early development considerations on transmission. So there's a number of moving pieces that provide some opportunities for growth and looking at 2022. So we're reasonably opportunistic towards the direction we're going in. But just to be fair that we're not at a point where we can settle on those numbers, but we're confident in the 6% projection is a target from 2018 to 20 21

Ali Agha

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

Thank you.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · SunTrust. Please go ahead

Thanks Ali.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Greg Gordon of Evercore ISI. Please go ahead.

Greg Gordon

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Thanks. Hey, how you guys doing?

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Good.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Fine Greg.

Greg Gordon

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Do you guys raised the dividend obviously significantly here coming into the quarter, I think it was 9%. There's nothing in your written comments here about the dividend growth policy or the dividend growth. But target payout ratio -- clearly your earnings growth profile looks good and your payout ratio is well below the industry average. So can you articulate for us what you're thinking in terms of -- as we get out to 2021, is there's sort of a target payout ratio, is there an aspiration for total return profile earnings plus dividends? What's the best way for us to think about that?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Yes, Greg. I mean it -- we didn't comment because we are currently looking at the 50% to 60% pay out as a guidance for our dividend growth staying in that range because of the earnings projections still provides above average growth. But as we think about if the business begins to see a lower growth profile then we'll begin to look at a higher payout ratio could be the 55% to 65% level in order to sustain a total return expectation and make up for whatever growth is not anticipated in that business. So it's too early at this point to make any determination that we've had very good discussions with our Board and some of their long-term views towards the business and the dividend policy as we think about it in a longer term view.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Greg, things we like is that we still have that upside in the payout ratio because we do know our payout ratio is low for a regulated utility. So we have that as a lever for our total return proposition still to raise that.

Greg Gordon

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Okay. So it's 50% to 60% now?

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Yes.

Greg Gordon

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

If your growth rate were to slow you could reallocate capital to paying higher dividends.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Absolutely.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Correct.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Absolutely.

Greg Gordon

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Perfect. Thank you.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Evercore ISI. Please go ahead

Thanks Greg.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Lasan Johong of Auvila Research Consulting. Please go ahead.

Lasan Johong

Analyst · Auvila Research Consulting. Please go ahead

Thank you. Just to follow up on Greg's question first. Would it be fair to say that the payout ratio is in inverse proportion to growth opportunity? In other words, if you have capital to put it to growth you do that before you increase your dividend.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Auvila Research Consulting. Please go ahead

Yes. I mean it's -- we really see that the growth opportunity is potential for allocating capital to support growth, our dividend is aligned for that expectation.

Lasan Johong

Analyst · Auvila Research Consulting. Please go ahead

Perfect. Four Corners, I understand that the debt return such et cetera but prudency has not been determined yet if I'm not mistaken, correct?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Auvila Research Consulting. Please go ahead

It is prudent. We don't see prudency being an issue for us. I say that because if you well know, Lasan in the rate order -- the final rate order there was no prudency see issue. It was certainly a discussion, but as you saw the commission in its final order removed any prudency on Four Corners and that's our position and that continues to. We feel very comfortable that we have the ability to recover those costs and we continue to work on our plan to exit coal but in a very financially prudent and transitional way to get there, but that yet to come.

Lasan Johong

Analyst · Auvila Research Consulting. Please go ahead

Okay. Excellent. Eventual customer growth it kind of still stagnating despite the economy kind of picking up, is that due to the residential number, or was that due to the commercial number, is it a combination of both? Which one is kind of dragging that number along?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Auvila Research Consulting. Please go ahead

Yes. It's really a combination of both. I wish I could say that we had a clear confidence in solid growth, but we did see a very slight negative growth that we see some improvement as I mentioned earlier a little bit on the residential side from customer growth. And then, we're starting to see some improvement on the commercial side in 2019 as the economy begins to recover. And as I mentioned Facebook's load to the system as they come online will be using some of the resources that we allocate to support their load and that's helping to stabilize the overall load projection for the next couple of years.

Lasan Johong

Analyst · Auvila Research Consulting. Please go ahead

Great. On the 50 megawatt solar that was increased by 10 megawatt looks like first of all. And second of all, would PNM consider doing that project outside of the utility to take advantage of 100% investment deduction?

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Auvila Research Consulting. Please go ahead

Yes. Actually that one was always been 50 I think in there. And no that is utility solar because it goes for the renewable portfolio standard and we recover that through a rider. So that needs to get done through the utility.

Lasan Johong

Analyst · Auvila Research Consulting. Please go ahead

I see. I see. Okay. Interesting. Last question, the merger between Sempra and Oncor seems to be going forward. Do you see an opportunities there for PNM to do something from the closure of that merger?

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Auvila Research Consulting. Please go ahead

Well, Sempra hasn't signaled that they'd like to get rid of any little rural parts of Oncor, if they would like to get rid of some little rural parts, we would love to take a look at them but we don't see anything right now. So…

Lasan Johong

Analyst · Auvila Research Consulting. Please go ahead

Okay. Thank you very much.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Auvila Research Consulting. Please go ahead

Thanks.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Paul Fremont of Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead.

Paul Fremont

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

Hi. Thank you very much. I guess I'm calculating roughly $300 million to $350 million pickup in rate base based on sort of your new growth rate, is that sort of a fair range relative to what you guys had provided during the Analyst Day?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

Are you looking at the total growth CAGR?

Paul Fremont

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

Well, I'm just looking at PNM, I'm sorry.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

Did you adjust for the Four Corners at that level?

Paul Fremont

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

I'm just looking at the rate base growth level that and comparing sort of the CAGRs and the numbers that I come up with.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

Yes. I think we just need to go through your calculations, but the earnings power shows you the growth from 2018 at $2.3 billion to $2.5 billion dollars for PNM retail and then you can see the other components on the earnings potential side to come up with a number. So for that kind of level of discussion, Paul we just need to get on the phone and walk through your numbers.

Paul Fremont

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

Okay. But it's reasonable to use the $2.6 billion as a starting point, right for 2018 and that should have the Four Corners adjustments in that or not?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

Yes. For what you're using that's about right. Yes, that's right. Yes, $2.6 billion, yes.

Paul Fremont

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

And then, I guess are you committed to the early retirement of San Juan and Four Corners without some form of assurance on a stay in cost recovery or is that something that you potentially would need to reconsider if you were not able to sort of achieve stay in cost recovery?

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

Well, Paul all of the retirements at both San Juan and Four Corners are subject to regulatory approval. We have to file our abandonment certificate. And in the analysis that we did in the integrated resource plan that showed it was economically feasible to shut down both San Juan and Four Corners and replace it with other resources. That assumes full cost recovery. So we are -- that's the way the numbers go and we're going to make sure that we get cost recovery on those.

Paul Fremont

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

Okay. And then, can you sort of describe what happened, the legislature with the securitization proposal in the term that just ended. And are you planning on pursuing securitization sort of in future legislative sessions?

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

I have to tell you Paul, we made what I thought was just unprecedented progress during that 30 day session. 30-day sessions go by like this. And so we really worked and built trust with the environmental advocates. the legislative leaders and the Farmington community. So being given the complexity of the legislation coupled with the fact that it was only a 30-day session and their major task -- actually the only task by law they have to do is pass the budget. It wasn't surprising that that legislation ended up being tabled and it could have been brought up again. They just playing ran out of steam and time. So because of the work that we did during the session and leading up to it a lot of the stakeholders have already reached out to us to talk to us about what we do going forward to make New Mexico a leader in this transition to clean energy. So we will be able to have something for the next session based on all that great work that was done.

Paul Fremont

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

Great. So you would plan on pursuing it -- pursuing that again in the future?

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

Yes.

Paul Fremont

Analyst · Mizuho Securities USA. Please go ahead

Okay.

Operator

Operator

Okay. The next question comes from Insoo Kim of RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Insoo Kim

Analyst · RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Hi, guys. Actually my questions have been asked and answered. Thank you very much.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Okay. Thank you, Insoo.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Thank you.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Happy International Polar Bear Day.

Insoo Kim

Analyst · RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead

You too.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Paul Ridzon of KeyBanc. Please go ahead.

Paul Ridzon

Analyst · KeyBanc. Please go ahead

Good morning.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · KeyBanc. Please go ahead

Good morning, Paul.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · KeyBanc. Please go ahead

Hi, Paul.

Paul Ridzon

Analyst · KeyBanc. Please go ahead

You have a big step up in commercial and industrial sales in Texas in 2019, it adds up to 78%, what'd driving that?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · KeyBanc. Please go ahead

We've had considerable in the west area of Texas. A lot of the oil and gas businesses continue to produce and we have a very strong demand for additional transmission lines in that area that are increasing the need for supporting reliability and growth.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · KeyBanc. Please go ahead

Permian Basin, Paul is just growing great guns. I mean that place is on fire and that's where we are in West Texas. So it's a struggle to work fast enough to fill demand there for transmission and distribution, but we're keeping up with it.

Paul Ridzon

Analyst · KeyBanc. Please go ahead

Okay. Thank you. And looking at your earnings potential slides, Analyst Day versus this where is that incremental rate base from deferred taxes and tax reforms on those?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · KeyBanc. Please go ahead

Well, primarily in the PNM retail area. But again, we would have to really sit down and go through your numbers to kind of walk you through what the previous information was and what it is currently but PNM retail would be a driver on that for the most part.

Paul Ridzon

Analyst · KeyBanc. Please go ahead

Okay. Thank you.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · KeyBanc. Please go ahead

Okay.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · KeyBanc. Please go ahead

Thanks Paul.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Chris Ellinghaus of Williams Capital. Please go ahead.

Chris Ellinghaus

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

Hey, guys how are you?

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

Good Chris. How are you?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

Good Chris.

Chris Ellinghaus

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

Good. Do you know when Penguin Day is?

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

No. When is it?

Chris Ellinghaus

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

Let me know they're cuter and they scare me a less.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

I know. And Lisa Goodman is a huge Penguin fan so we'll send an email on that day.

Lisa Goodman

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

January 25.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

January 25th. Okay. We missed it, sorry.

Chris Ellinghaus

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

I don't know Chuck if you said this, but maybe I missed it. Did you say what the donation to the foundation number was?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

$1 million.

Chris Ellinghaus

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

Pre-tax?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

Yes.

Chris Ellinghaus

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

Okay. You're talking about the dividend growth expectations and you're sort of implying you want to maintain sort of above average dividend growth. Clearly 6% to 7% earnings growth is above average, but is that 6% to 7% which you would infer is above average dividend growth as well?

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

I would say based on what I see with companies down there, it would still be above average.

Chris Ellinghaus

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

Okay. And lastly, you talked about the economy sort of still being slow -- slower than the U.S. in Albuquerque, but do you know enough about business development efforts. I presume you do that you have some expectations that Albuquerque may be able to catch up with the U.S. kind of rate at some point?

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

I think so Chris. I mean the new mayor is really focusing on sort of developing some home grown businesses and some entrepreneurial stuff. And there have been some good announcements that the Governor has made. So I think we will catch up it's just going to take a little bit longer for the economy here given how dominated we are by the military and I think that the President's new budget with its emphasis on military spending also is going to help in the spending on the [lapse] [ph] which are a huge part of our economy here.

Chris Ellinghaus

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

Okay, great. Thanks the color. I appreciate it.

Chuck Eldred

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

Thank you.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Williams Capital. Please go ahead

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Pat Vincent-Collawn for any closing remarks.

Pat Vincent-Collawn

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Well, thank you, again, everyone for joining us this morning. We hope to see you all when we're on the road in March. But if not, we look forward to talking with you again at the end of April when we announce our first quarter results. Have a great day everyone.

Operator

Operator

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation you may now disconnect.