Operator
Operator
TriMas Corporation (TRS)
Q3 2008 Earnings Call· Mon, Nov 10, 2008
$36.95
-1.68%
Same-Day
-22.53%
1 Week
-38.46%
1 Month
-41.21%
vs S&P
-36.15%
Operator
Operator
Sherry Lauderback
Management
Thank you. Thank you and welcome to TriMas Corporation third quarter 2008 earnings call. Participating onto the call today are Grant Beard, TriMas’ President and CEO, and Mark Zeffiro our Chief Financial Officer. Also with us is Bob Zalupski, our Vice President of Finance Operations. Grant and Mark will review TriMas’ third quarter operating and financial results, in addition to providing the company’s outlook into the remainder of 2008. After our prepared remarks, we will then open the call to questions. To facilitate this review of our results, we have provided a press release and a power point presentation on our company website www.TriMasCorp.com under the investor section. In addition, a replay of this call will be available later today by calling 866-837-8032 with an access code of 1300101. Before we get started, I would like to remind everyone that our comments today, which are intended to supplement your understanding of TriMas may contain forward-looking statements that are inherently subject to a number of risks and uncertainties. We caution everyone to be guided in their analysis of TriMas by referring to our Form 10-K and our Form 10-Q for a list of factors that could cause the results to differ from those anticipated in such forward-looking statements. Also, we undertake no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements except as required by law. We would also direct your attention to our website where considerably more information may be found. At this point, I would like to turn the call over to Grant Beard, TriMas President and CEO.
Grant Beard
Management
Thank you Sherry. Good morning and welcome to the TriMas Corporation third quarter 2008 earnings call. This morning Mark Zeffiro, our CFO and I will review our third quarter results in addition to our segment highlights for the quarter. Together, we will also provide a financial overview of our company as of September 30, 2008 and discuss the company’s outlook for the remainder of the year. After our formal comments are complete, we will open up the call for Q&A. During the first nine months of 2008, we have performed well against the objectives we set at the beginning of the year. Our third quarter results were strong, and we are pleased with our strategic growth and cost initiatives continue to show progress. Our company delivered solid performance within the quarter by meeting our earnings expectations in a difficult and rapidly changing economic environment. Our strategic growth priorities, which are focused on the ad markets of energy. Aerospace, medical, pharmaceutical, and specialty packaging, continue to transition our overall portfolio. During the third quarter, the packaging systems, energy products, and industrial specialty groups collectively grew sales by 21% year-over-year as a result of our new product customer and geographic expansion initiatives. It’s important to note that these three segments generated 88% of our segment operating profits during the quarter. The positive performance of these three segments continues to be partially offset by the impact of the consumer recession within the United States and our exposure to consumer discretionary spending within our RV/Trailer products and recreational accessories segment, that we collectively call Cequent. While TriMas revenue grew at an overall rate of 7.1% for the third quarter, these two groups, known as Cequent, our revenues declined by 10% and although we believe this performance was against an overall end market that was…
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Good morning and thank you, Grant. I’ll begin my comments referencing page 15 of the slide presentation. First, let’s consider our results for the quarter. We delivered quarterly sales of $276 million, a 7.1 increase versus a year ago. As you heard, the packaging systems, energy products, and industrial specialty segments had a sizable effect in quarter with a combined sales growth of 21%. This performance was offset by continued end market declines in our RV and Trailer Products, and Recreational Accessories segments, collectively called Cequent, which resulted in a 10% sales decline during the quarter for these groups. Our price initiatives contributed 5% of the increase in revenues in the quarter and foreign exchange also contributed 70 basis points. Gross margin percentage declined in the quarter by 110 basis points as the beneficial efforts of our pricing initiatives were more than offset by demand softness and a less favorable mix within the businesses. During the quarter, we continued efforts to right size our investment in inventory by reducing our planned production output during the quarter, which resulted in yet further under absorption in related manufacturing variances. We remain committed to our end markets, but also recognize the need to balance this commitment with our needs to right size our working capital commitments. We will discuss these efforts in greater detail a bit later in our remarks. During the quarter, our SG&A spending increased $1.2 million compared to the prior year. This is driven predominantly by the year on year advances in growth related resources for the packaging and energy businesses and our investment in Australia. SG&A as a percent of sales was slightly down at 15.8% versus 16.1% in 2007, driven by sales leveraged predominantly in the energy segment. Benefits of our Q2 actions, previously announced to reduce costs…
Grant Beard
Management
Thanks Mark. As Mark indicated we are faced with the challenge of balancing our growth initiatives with aggressive cost reductions and productivity improvements. As you know, we have been actively reducing our costs and footprint within TriMas, so commitment and action are not an issue. We have already consolidated over 12 plants, 16 distribution locations and established key facilities and low cost environments. We’ve established centralized purchasing functions and set up off-shore buying offices with approximately $130 million of our product being sourced from low cost countries. We’ve reduced overhead and administrative costs in this business. The point is, TriMas has made significant investments already that will allow us to drive our next set of profit improvement initiatives that Mark spoke to without great disruption or risk and we believe that these will yield $30 million of additional fixed cost reductions by 2010. These actions will enable us to mitigate the current challenges of a volatile macroeconomic market and at the same time drive enhanced results in the future. TriMas is committed to not only manage as required but position our portfolio for substantial margin and earnings expansion as the economy recovers. So in the meantime, we will continue to focus our capital on strategic growth initiatives with our focus on value creation opportunities and growing end markets of specialty packaging, energy, aerospace and medical components. We will continue to deploy capital frugally. We have already begun to reduce working capital levels in the company and are positioning to monetize non-core properties and assets to bolster our balance sheet. We recognize the debt levels in our company are significant and while indebtedness is declining we are committed to protecting our liquidity. We expect our initiatives to continue to generate strong free cash flow, strengthen our balance sheet and first and foremost preserve our opportunities. In summary, we are taking steps to minimize the down-side risks of uncertain markets while investing in growth in those markets that we believe will out-perform the economy. We have a good portfolio of businesses supported by great brands and talented people. While the near-term has become more challenging, we will continue to make progress on our long-term growth strategies that will drive enhanced shareholder value into the future. At this point I would like to open up call for questions, Chris, and perhaps you could do that.
Operator
Operator
Yes, Sir.
Grant Beard
Management
Thank you.
Operator
Operator
You’re welcome. (Operator Instructions) Our first question or comment is from the line of Tom Klamka with Credit Suisse. Your line is open.
Grant Beard
Management
Hi, Tom. Thomas Klamka – Credit Suisse: Good morning, how are you?
Grant Beard
Management
Good, how are you? Thomas Klamka – Credit Suisse: Good, could you, excluding sequent for the time being, the other business all did very well in the quarter which is great, you seem to be also very bullish on their prospects for 2009 even though those end markets aren’t doing that well. And I guess maybe you could reconcile that for us, how do you see a bullish revenue outlook in face of what we’re looking at in economy.
Grant Beard
Management
I think, Tom, that bullish is a strong statement. I think that we expect the opportunity to have moderated growth and I think that growth will be more challenged in 09 but I think as we push our product initiatives, our international expansion, as we continue to take our group-like packaging more and more into food and beverage and medical, as we continue the conversion of our specialty cutting tools in the medical as layman’s gasket continues to follow the major oil producers with its service model into Europe and Southeast Asia, we think that those groups have the opportunity to continue to expand even in the market that they’re in. I think bullish would be too strong an adjective. Thomas Klamka – Credit Suisse: But you still see positive revenue comparisons in those businesses next year?
Grant Beard
Management
We see the opportunity to do that, yes. Thomas Klamka – Credit Suisse: Okay. And can you talk a minute about energy, the growth there in the last couple quarters has been very strong now that natural gas has come down, some of those buyers are a little more circumspect. What do you see happening there?
Grant Beard
Management
Well, you know, I think that group has certain characteristics to it, Tom. You know the great majority of what we’re selling are MRO or replacement components into a utilization environments, so while commodity prices moving down have impact, you’re running those petro-chemical or those oil refineries really don’t necessarily care what the commodity prices are and we see continued support for those MRO products that we’re selling into Dow and Exxon and the like and we see a great deal of commitment by those companies to take our business, in a sense, outside of North America which is all incremental opportunity for us. At the well site, clearly as commodity prices retract, capital spend should soften. Our backlogs at current moment would not suggest that is impacted us yet, but we recognize that the relative strength in 09 might be softer then 08, that said, we think that the movement we are doing in our well-site expansion, compression and metering and accumulation products, is really gaining great acceptance and we really do sell into the lowest of capital spend buyers in the market and we still see a lot of strength there. Thomas Klamka – Credit Suisse: And can you talk about what you saw in October and currently in November versus the trend in September?
Grant Beard
Management
Well, you know, I got to tell you, coming through the quarter of the third quarter we saw really quite a strong sense of strength everywhere. And I think that financial markets in the news were so dramatic in October, I think that there was just a collective pull-back almost everywhere. And I think it’s going to manifest itself mostly on top of our sequent businesses but we saw the world pull back and I’m sure you saw that in many of your other companies. And that led us to really reduce not only our revenue expectations for the quarter but immediately move in to lowering inventories and taking ours out of the quarter which had an immediate impact on our ability to support our guidance or our expected earnings level. But, we want to do what’s right for the company and we thought that that was prudent. Thomas Klamka – Credit Suisse: Sure, great, okay. Thank you.
Grant Beard
Management
Okay, thanks, Tom.
Operator
Operator
Thank you, sir. Our next question to come is from the line of John Inch with Merrill Lynch. Your line is open. John Inch – Merrill Lynch: Thank you.
Grant Beard
Management
Hi, John. John Inch – Merrill Lynch: Morning, Grant. So, I want to ask you about the securitization program. Have the terms of that program really changed and as you guys look ahead do you think the opportunity to continue to securitize your receivables is going to be there? Just how should we think about that vis a vis the balance sheet and your prior comments?
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Yeah, John, this is Mark. With respect to the securitization program, as I mentioned it’s up for renewal in February. John Inch – Merrill Lynch: Right.
Mark Zeffiro
Management
We’ve already started conversations with the current provider and are looking at others to that end. At this point in time, the cost structure of it has been equivalent to where it was previously. As you knew, it was CP plus 105 basis points, relatively stated, its more comparable to our revolver related debt levels in terms of the cost structure as of right now. So, I don’t expect it to go away, John, but it will be re-bid and re-tasked with its renewal and in February. John Inch – Merrill Lynch: So, Mark, how should we, as we kind of put all of this into a bucket, how should we think about your ability as a company to continue to finance and possibly even take some market share, your own working capital, going forward. Is that something we need to be concerned about or is something you can adjust sort of concurrently, how to think about that?
Mark Zeffiro
Management
What I would do, your question is a good one, John. We expect that this availability for us in terms of our overall liquidity will remain and in that end that’s the way that you should plan for it. John Inch – Merrill Lynch: Maybe if anything, just the terms get a little bit more expensive, right? Is that the way to think about it?
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Possibly, yes. John Inch – Merrill Lynch: Okay. And then, Mark or Grant, TriMas’ historical backlog during downturns, can you just refresh us again what typically plays out, and I understand, you know, your energy business probably has more proportionally obvious backlog, but how about some of those export businesses and other things, how would you characterize the backlog and the risk to backlog heading into next year based on what you’ve seen thus far?
Grant Beard
Management
Yeah, John, our company by and large does not have the luxury of big backlogs in the best of times or the challenged times. So, we have visual backlogs in our energy and aerospace and where a small amount of revenue base, as you know, is in an OE environment, but most of our order intake is in a fairly short window which has ups and downs that may make us more nimble but it also makes projecting revenue a little bit more challenging. We don’t have a big backlog that’s subject to being cancelled but we don’t have a big backlog that really lends us to have a lot of visuals. John Inch – Merrill Lynch: But with that (inaudible 00:47:28) Grant, does it traditionally does it hold in during recessions or does it fluctuate?
Grant Beard
Management
Well, I think it depends where it is. For us, aerospace and our growing applications through our new product initiatives are holding up. Backlogs there have never been stronger and I think we’ve got a little counter-veiling thing happening in energy as well. We have so many new products coming out and we’re pushing ourselves into new markets, that that might be masking so other demand slow down. So, where we have backlogs we’ve not seen retrenchment. John Inch – Merrill Lynch: Okay. Thank you very much.
Grant Beard
Management
Thanks, John.
Operator
Operator
Thank you, Sir. Our next question or comment is from the line of Fred Taylor.
Grant Beard
Management
Hi, Fred.
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Hi, Fred.
Fred Taylor
Analyst
Hi, how are you? Just a quick question, and maybe you’ve touched on it a little bit. But, you mentioned commodity inflation and inventory, as that settles down does it kind of go the other way that you’ve got to push through some higher priced inventory into next year’s sales and we might we see a reduction in gross profit margin?
Mark Zeffiro
Management
That’s what’s contemplated directly in our Earning Guidance right now, Fred. If you were to think of it on a FIFO basis we have some higher cost inventory that will hit in Q4.
Fred Taylor
Analyst
Thank you, that’s all I had.
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Thank you, Fred.
Operator
Operator
Thank you, Sir. Our next question or comment is from the line of Walter Liptak of Barrington Research. Your line is open.
Grant Beard
Management
Hi, Walt.
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Good morning, Walt. Walter Liptak – Barrington Research: Thanks. Good morning, guys. I guess my question is about the covenants for 2009 and I wonder if you could refresh us on what the bank IBITDA targets are and some of the bank covenants what they adjust to?
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Well, our covenants step down as in (inaudible 00:49:15) Q3 to 475 and then at year end another 25 basis points to 450, Walt. Walter Liptak – Barrington Research: Okay, so Q3 of 09, right?
Mark Zeffiro
Management
That’s correct. Walter Liptak – Barrington Research: Okay. And, you know, overall are you expecting with the performance (inaudible 00:49:37) program of revenue decline in 2009 considering that–it sounds like you’re looking for, you know, the Tale of Two Cities where you’ve got some segments up and then the sequent business is down?
Grant Beard
Management
You know, Walt, I think where we’ve seen growth and where this company has its greatest margins, we will continue to see relative strength and relative opportunity. I think the consumer market exposure that we have through our product offering in sequent, we believe, especially in North America will continue to be weak and that is why we are looking there to in a sense right-size the business to its revenue levels. We’re market leaders, we’ve got good companies there but we have to have those business sort of right-size for our market. I just don’t see in the short-term a catalyst for the U.S. consumer to really step up there. Walter Liptak – Barrington Research: Yeah, I don’t think anybody does. But, you’re obviously going to forecast through 09 what you think those sequent businesses can do. Are you expecting them to drop another 10% in 09?
Grant Beard
Management
Well, you know, that’s a great question. You know, we came into this year and we’ve been about 10% down across a market that’s had a matrix probably twice that amount and I think that we will continue to see support for our product initiatives and our bundling our aggressiveness out in the market but I think that the market will probably be down another low double digit realm. You know, and I think what that does, it isn’t so much that you’ll see it directly impacted in our revenue, it’s just changes the complexion of what we sell. We sell down then to the more accessory (inaudible 00:51:43) non-customized product offering which is less profitable, so for us it will put more opportunity, I’ll say it that way, to lower working capital levels and give us a chance to consolidate into, frankly the investments we’ve already made in our low cost environments. Walter Liptak – Barrington Research: Okay, great. Thanks for that.
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Walt, I would also add to that is if you think about 2009 as other companies, maybe not TriMas, have seen harder financial outcomes, you know, the brands that Grant talks to have equity and commercial equity, and what we’re finding obviously is people have a flight to our quality of equity namely the brands that we carry. So, I would expect also see an increase demand, if you will, not at large, but an increased demand for our sets of products and our brands. Walter Liptak – Barrington Research: Okay, yeah, that would be nice. I wonder if you could talk about the cost reduction a little bit and the $15 million expected in 2009 lower cost structure. Is that going to show up in manufacturing expenses being lower or is it SG&A overhead or a combination and what would the combination be?
Mark Zeffiro
Management
It’s a combination of both, Walt. If you’re to look at this sequent set of businesses, they will likely show probably better or more significant reductions in the gross margin contribution, if you will, you know, the manufacturing side of the house. There will be SG&A effects as well, though. I mean, I would say it’s largely going to come through in terms (inaudible 00:53:38) gross margin effect. Walter Liptak – Barrington Research: Okay. Okay, thanks, guys.
Grant Beard
Management
Okay, thanks, Walt.
Operator
Operator
Thank you. Our next question or comment is from the line of Alan Weber of Robotti & Company. Your line is open.
Grant Beard
Management
Hi, Alan Alan Weber – Robotti & Company: Hi, good morning. A few questions, when you talk about the program for 09 for cost reductions, what is the cash outlay for that?
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Alan, our current look is between $7 and $9 million would be largely cash. It would include severance, it will include, obviously, you know the cash equivalence of equal migrating facilities to a new location. Alan Weber – Robotti & Company: And at this point, what do you expect CapEx to be for the balance of this year and for 09?
Mark Zeffiro
Management
CapEx for the full year, we’re looking at (inaudible 00:54:31) sales, Alan, that would give us the ability now as we’re coming down through the rest of the year as we’ve got our sensitivity on ensuring that that 3% is really needed versus just the wants of the business. So, we’re being conservative in that respect.
Grant Beard
Management
Yeah, I think on a outlook basis, we’ve spent on average about 3% about two thirds of that is directly related to new revenue initiatives, so in a sense its fairly manageable and about a third of that is sort of directly related to maintenance and PP&E and whatnot. So, if the end-markets prove to be weaker, we can choose to spend less, I mean we are very, sort of a capital efficient organization. Alan Weber – Robotti & Company: Okay, and then of the cost savings that you are talking about, what percent is going to be in sequent business?
Grant Beard
Management
I would say, without getting ahead of ourselves, a fair majority. And I think that evolution for these businesses are not to be five discreet businesses any longer that allow them to migrate into one operating group over the corresponding 12 to 24 months which will allow us–which would–you would see a steady stream of announcements coming, which is going to allow us to share manufacturing facilities, share distribution, share back offices and really lever some of those investments in the company. But, I will say that we’re looking at our total GNA environment and looking across our whole portfolio as ways to simplify and take non-value ad costs out. We have been a big proponent of letting these businesses live and a discreet environment and we think there’s leverage opportunities in a sense in the lowest form of transactional costs that we communize or centralize in the company.
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Without affecting, obviously, the commercial or the equity side of each one of those businesses, so that will be the focus area, Alan. Alan Weber – Robotti & Company: Okay. My final two questions–I think you said that 130 million of products are now sourced from low-cost countries?
Grant Beard
Management
That’s correct. Alan Weber – Robotti & Company: What do you think that will be in two or three years?
Grant Beard
Management
That’s a good question. It will be more and it will be a combination of sourced and manufactured product through our own facilities. I regretfully–we will continue to migrate workers to our exposure to expensive workers in North America or at least in the United States and Canada. I can’t give you a specific number but, you know, several years ago it was next to nothing and we’ve moved very quickly and I think we continue to see opportunities as a cost arbitrator to move more. Alan Weber – Robotti & Company: And I guess my final question has to do with kind of the balance sheet and capital structure. Given where your balance trade–is there anything you can do in terms of buying back bonds or any thought process like that or just, you know, kind of if you generate cash, you know, what (inaudible 00:57:57) cash?
Mark Zeffiro
Management
You know, that’s a great question, Alan, and we’ve had internally a significant amount of discussions as we continue to generate this free cash flow, how do we want to deploy it instead of just paying down revolvers is there an alternative here whereby we could maybe even buy back some of those bonds. That will be something as we continue to generate free cash flow and as the bonds are available at discount we will seriously look at. Alan Weber – Robotti & Company: Okay, great. Thank you very much.
Grant Beard
Management
Thank you.
Operator
Operator
Thank you. Our next question or comment is from Joe Fox with Keybanc Capital. Your line is open. Joe Fox – Keybanc Capital Markets: Good morning, Grant, Mark and Sherry.
Sherry Lauderback
Management
Hi.
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Good morning.
Grant Beard
Management
Hi, Joe. Joe Fox – Keybanc Capital Markets: Can you guys just talk a little bit more about the cadence of your restructuring plan? Now, is that something that you guys are actively pursuing right now and maybe we would start to see some of the benefits in early 09? Or do you think that is something where the majority of the benefits are going to come from in the back half of the year?
Grant Beard
Management
No, this is really something that was in a sense sort of happening anyway, and I think that you will see a steady series of announcements even in the remaining part of this quarter that will reinforce our commitment to the things that will add up to these numbers. So, the short answer is we’re implementing actions as we speak that will support those levels of savings and we expect to see them not just in the back half of the year but throughout the whole entire 09.
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Hey, Joe, if you were to think about it, in order for us to realize $15 million worth of costs in 2009, and think about the size of the fixed cost structure, that means that we have to move fast. So, you are going to see–you will see not just a Q4, Q3 kind of lumpiness for 2009 but you will see stuff in the front half. Joe Fox – Keybanc Capital Markets: Great, that’s helpful. Also if we assume that the weakness in sequent persists into 1Q09, which if sounds like you guys believe it will, as you look at the outlook for the other three segments in conjunction with your cost reduction efforts, do you think it’s reasonable to see EPS above 1Q08 levels?
Grant Beard
Management
You know, that’s a great question, Joe, and I’d love to be able to talk details in terms of 2009 guidance at this point. We’re still in the throes of our budgeting process and looking at yet the effects of this profit improvement plan for Q109, that we’re not quite ready to share with that. Joe Fox – Keybanc Capital Markets: Fair enough. I thought I’d ask. Also, was there any impact to Monogram during the quarter due Boeing strike?
Grant Beard
Management
No. Joe Fox – Keybanc Capital Markets: Okay. And we’ve been hearing of some uncertainty in the supply chain due to production scheduling for the rest of the year. Is that something you’ve seen specifically from Boeing?
Grant Beard
Management
So far, so good on our part, there has been some disruption in products that are outside of our offering that have gotten some press, but no we’ve not seen anything other than support for what we’re doing. Joe Fox – Keybanc Capital Markets: Okay, and last question and then I’ll turn it over. I think it was Grant that mentioned earlier that you were going to explore some diffentures of non-core businesses, can you possible give us an idea of what those might be?
Grant Beard
Management
We can’t but I will say that we’re committed and we are currently in the process of looking at assets that we believe are non-core and if we can be successful in getting those done we would take any net proceeds and drive them to debt reductions. So, we recognize our balance sheet, we want to preserve our flexibility and our growth initiatives and that’s certainly an avenue that we’re open to and are working hard on. But a little premature, but stay tuned. Joe Fox – Keybanc Capital Markets: Thank you, guys.
Grant Beard
Management
Okay.
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Thank you.
Operator
Operator
Thank you. Our next question or comment is from the line of Sarah Thompson with Barclays Capital. Your line is open. [Dory] – Barclays Capital: Good morning, this is Dory calling in for Sarah. Just a couple of real quick questions, the $7 to $9 million disbursements for the restructuring charges, what’s the timing of that?
Grant Beard
Management
I’m sorry, who is that again? [Dory] – Barclays Capital: It’s Dory
Grant Beard
Management
Okay, Dory. What will happen, Dory, is we will see some of that in Q4 what I would say is about half of you’ll see in Q4 and the rest of it will be spread out over 2009. [Dory] – Barclays Capital: Okay, and then just one last question, do you guys have a EBITDA target for the year?
Grant Beard
Management
No, Dory, we don’t have a EBITDA target for the year. [Dory] – Barclays Capital: Okay. Thank you.
Grant Beard
Management
Sure.
Operator
Operator
Thank you. We have a follow-up question from the line of Tom Klamka. Your line is open once again, Sir. Thomas Klamka – Credit Suisse: Mark, could you just give us the balance of the revolver and the term and then also if you could split that 141 million of availability between the revolver and the receivables facility.
Mark Zeffiro
Management
Hey, Tom, give me one second. That’s a great question, I’ve got that here, and we’re talking about the end of Q3, correct? Thomas Klamka – Credit Suisse: Yes.
Grant Beard
Management
The balance of the term loan was $254 million or thereabouts, Tom. And in terms of that availability, the securitization is probably net of the balance we had at Q3 of $11 million I would say it’s about 50ish and the residual would be revolver. Thomas Klamka – Credit Suisse: Great, thank you.
Operator
Operator
Thank you. Our final question in queue is a follow up from the line of Walt Liptak. Your line is open once again, Sir.
Grant Beard
Management
Go ahead, Walt. Walter Liptak – Barrington Research: Hi, thanks, I wonder if you could give us some help on the 09 tax rate, is there anything moving around?
Mark Zeffiro
Management
No, you know, consistent tax rate was total year 2008 as well, what we just saw is we just had to adjust a bit in Q3 as respect to the shift in our overall income projections for the year, so, you know, 36-37% is if you’re doing your modeling for 2009, is a reasonable assumption. Walter Liptak – Barrington Research: Okay, and when we think about free cash flow for 2009, excluding what might happen with net income, do you expect to generate some more free cash flow in 09 or because of inventory draw down, you know, a better free cash flow year?
Grant Beard
Management
Well, we’re not really ready to give guidance, but we are certainly committed to driving free cash flow to strengthen our balance sheet and preserve our initiatives but we’re not quite ready to give guidance. Walter Liptak – Barrington Research: Okay, alright. Fair enough. Thanks.
Grant Beard
Management
Okay. That’s okay.
Operator
Operator
Thank you. There are no further questions in queue at this time. I would like to turn the conference to you for any closing remarks.
Grant Beard
Management
Okay, thank you, Chris and thank you for your time and patience through our call today. You know, I think in closing I would say that TriMas has a solid third quarter, we had a year in which debt was reduced, cash flow is certainly improved and net earnings have increased. Our cost reduction initiatives certainly are putting pressure on the earnings in the fourth quarter of this year and potentially into the quarter of next year but are going to set this company up for enhanced performance as we move forward. I hope you recognize that we continue to focus on the value creation growth opportunities in concert and consistent with removing fixed costs and decreasing debt in our company. And we believe TriMas is an excellent company populated with very talented people with a wonderful future in front of us. So, we thank you for your time and your support and look forward to talking to all of you soon. Thank you.
Operator
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen this does conclude today’s conference call. We again thank you for your participation. You may all disconnect at this time.