Earnings Labs

Trustmark Corporation (TRMK)

Q4 2009 Earnings Call· Thu, Jan 28, 2010

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good morning ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the Trustmark Corporation's Fourth Quarter Earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode. Following the presentation this morning there will be a question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions) It is now my pleasure to introduce Joey Rein, Director of Investor Relations at Trustmark.

Joey Rein

Management

Good morning. I would like to remind everyone that a copy of our fourth quarter earnings release as well as supporting financial information is available on the Investor Relations section of our website at trustmark.com. During the course of our call this morning, we may make forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. We would like to caution you that these forward-looking statements may differ materially from actual results due to a number of risks and uncertainties, which are outlined in our earnings release and our other filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. At this time, I'd like to introduce Richard Hickson, Chairman and CEO of Trustmark.

Richard Hickson

Chairman

Good morning. Thank you joining us this morning. We look forward to chatting you this morning on what we consider a very good quarter for Trustmark. Net income available to common shareholders totaled $13.9 million for the quarter and $73 million for the year. As we discussed this out joined by Gary Host, our Chief Operating Officer, Louis Greer, our Chief Financial Officer and other executives involved with credit and other risk in the company. Earnings per share of $0.23 for the quarter, there was an earning in the fourth quarter included a one time non-cash charge of $8.2 million or $0.14 a share for the accelerated accretion of discount associated with the full redemption of the $215 million preferred stock from the U.S. Treasury. Performance reflects solid net interest income with an expanded net interest margin. Reduced operating expenses and increased tangible common equity, pretax pre provision earnings were approximately $53 million. Very consistent, very profitable and predictable, there were know core extraordinary items for the quarter. Before we go into credit quality today, I’d like to take a moment and reflect on 2009 as we completed our assessment of what we accomplished during the year. When you look at the year overall net income to common shareholders of $73 was down from the $91 million of 2008. Our net income for preferred dividend was actually up a million dollars at 93 versus 92 in the pretax pre provision net income was $214 million versus $212 million. When you look at the pretax pre provision income I think I just point out to you that 2009 was a very core year for Trustmark, where 2008 had a due extraordinary items when we compare to year-over-year we earned the 214 even when our FDIC premium was $16 million this year…

Operator

Operator

(Operator Instruction). Our first question comes from Kevin Fitzsimmons with Sandler O'Neill.

Kevin Fitzsimmons

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill

Richard, I’ve got two questions, first, can you give us some sense on you outlook for the margin, I keep thinking for the past two quarters that this margin is getting close to peaking and it proves me wrong, but now at over 4.30% how should we kind of look at that margin going forward and then secondly, if you can give us some sense for credit, I know there has been a lot of companies that have been more stressed than you, calling the peak in losses and wanting to normalizing credit, but where you guys see for yourselves in terms of when you suspect you might see a peak in losses and provisions NPAs and how that relates to reserve building, thanks. Richard Hickson On the margin we did a number of things during the year, which we did not foresee that we were going to be as successful. One was putting in (inaudible) on our loan portfolio and we have been diligent, our customers have been understanding, and Jerry Host and his commercial teams have just done an exceptional job there. We were just playing lucky when we bought bond the timing of April of ‘08 and we tried to stay out of the way and we took the portfolio down quite a bit and we are just having the benefit of that. We were really able to do some things on lowering our deposit costs and we are still expecting to see some of that in our CD portfolio this year but obviously not as much as last year. We are not looking for a 433 but we are not looking for anything lower than 4% for next year.

Kevin Fitzsimmons

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill

When you say that, would you think it happens gradually for suddenly or? Richard Hickson I’m going to let Louis Greer tackle that one (inaudible).

Louis Greer

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill

We would see that coming down on a quarterly basis not (inaudible) tremendously at the industries, but taking our models we’ve got coming now (inaudible). Richard Hickson It is possible that we keep with this indirect auto running off and there was a lot of dealer reserves that had to be accreted against that auto portfolio, so did not have a lot of profitability in it right now, so the margin, it just looks okay for next year.

Louis Greer

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill

Let me add one other thought about some margins. We have a balance sheet structure that we have spent a good deal of time putting together that has a deposit base that even the interest baring short term deposits that we have which make up the majority of our core deposits along with our non interest baring indeterminate maturity checking accounts. We operate with a 40% data to the movement of interest rates on liability side. We have on the third of our loans in a variable position so that we don’t see either the asset or liability side of our balance sheet moving very far away from a very tight range that we target. We use some fixed rate assets because we needed to. So we were actually too asset sensitive and the extension in the investment portfolio along with a small amount of increased preference by our customer in fixed rate lending has allowed us to maintain a balance that puts that 4% range very comfortably in a management focus. So we have got a lot of tools that we haven’t used as much as we feel that we can especially in the borrowed funds area as you can see from the amount that we are using compared to the very significant amount of availability. So those types of asset liability an interest (Inaudible) management provide you ways –for 2010 comfort that (Inaudible) product. Louis Greer Hard and very hardy Bob will be able to comment the market on credit and vary overall Bob just – all last week five days in Texas...

Kevin Fitzsimmons

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill

Pretty well going through everything they are spending significant amount to time and – bob you can comment on where are you working we are in the cycle and with (Inaudible) as we look into – Richard Hickson That’s is second part of questions with regarding credit and looking forward I guess we are looking at (Inaudible) such a bit part of that, if you look its about 50% of our non-performing and our change off and our provision expansion and so forth and it is still uncertain in that market. We have been about 80 months into concentrate effort with dedicated people in that market working credits down there. Early on the value still so far some fast and we really look on still a lot of time trying to get our arms around it, but now we realize a number of month we feel like we do have a understanding, we do have our arms around what’s going on and we actively working the credits and we’re seeing some of the fruits of that labor. We can’t say that Florida is behind us, we still have more work to, but I think and may be Barry could comment a little on this in a few minutes that we are to some degree able to make some type of estimation and predictions about what we think the credit cards are going to be in Florida. Again it is still uncertain, it’s difficult to predict, but I think we have a hand up now and up to where we can start looking at South Asia, you won’t see it. I don’t think we could tell you with any derived accuracy that we are there yet, but we’re getting closer. With regard to Texas I was out there and we went…

Kevin Fitzsimmons

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill

Comment also on, we have always been a fairly large consumer bank, what you are seeing there relative to our collections efforts any change although the mortgage is broadly covered, back on the provisioning losses and non-performing assets that Bob was coming and I think holistically from a provisioning standpoint from a roll standpoint, we see ’10 to be in our minds below ’09 to what degree we don’t at this point but just do our analysis and we have taken this approach that we took when we projected out ’09 to project ’10, we feel like that as Bob indicated address a number of our credit especially Florida addressing our larger credits. I think we are seeing that clearly when we looked at loans that came impaired this quarter (inaudible). Just the one of thing is if you could a sense of reserve building how you feel about that some companies have started releasing already a few and others have gone indicated, we are going to continue to build but probably that slowing rate. I’m just wondering how you feel about it? Richard Hickson Barry would you comment on that Sure. I would see as probably on the first category have been eventually we don’t necessarily know when that will occur what we do if you like as a result of having our (Inaudible) properly reserved for today and those being the predominate credit that are going to move their way: Richard Hickson That’s correct: Richard Hickson

Operator

Operator

Our next question is from Brian Klock of KBW please go ahead.

Brian Klock- KBW

Analyst · KBW please go ahead

Tell me just see if I understand quickly when Kevin’s questions about the margin are you guys saying that you think the margin will be down by 4% by the end of 2010 or do you just think that it’s some pressure here from the level that it has had currently. Richard Hickson I would say I was just putting some rails on the baby bed, I wouldn’t think it would roll off in either way.

Brian Klock- KBW

Analyst · KBW please go ahead

Okay. I would imagine that maybe you can give some color on the good solid core deposit growth you had. Seem like it came in at the end of the year and so that funding impact isn’t in your margin for the fourth quarter, so it seems there could be a positive impact on your margin for the first quarter of 2010 from a good solid DBA growth. Richard Hickson I’m going to let Gerry Host, Chief Operating Officer who is day-to-day just talk about that.

Gerry Host

Analyst · KBW please go ahead

What that increase in deposits is a result of the public money that’s come in typically at year end and are spend out through the first six months of fiscal year, (inaudible) 6.30 fiscal cycle so that’s why you have that spending that takes place over that period of time. Core deposits overall from those both retail stand point and business standpoint have remained very steady and increased slightly despite the fact that we are very close controlled on our deposit rates, we use heavy focus on technology to maintain customer relationships, one of things we have accomplished over the last year is that we have completely eliminated all paper checks within the company. Two months ago we unplugged our last 3890 check reading machine. So we are completely paperless for taking that technology out to our customer and offering them more deposit capture very aggressively to increase their efficiency and to help lot of those core deposits into us. So we feel good about the stability of the deposits within the organization pricing is very solid and we’ll continue to work to grow those core deposits.

Brian Klock- KBW

Analyst · KBW please go ahead

Just follow up on that, how much was the public deposit money influence in the fourth quarter?

Gerry Host

Analyst · KBW please go ahead

Those are approximately $200 million.

Brian Klock- KBW

Analyst · KBW please go ahead

I want to ask one more and I’ll get back in the queue. Richard maybe can talk about in the budget as I missed this earlier, the Texas NPAs went down about $3 million went quarter so did the some group credit with that come out of that NPA?

Richard Hickson

Chairman

We did sale the same crude note our recovery on that within our reserves which we left in the reserves and that was principally the reason for the drop and think that was between 7 and $8 million.

Operator

Operator

(Operator Instructions). Our next question comes from Andy Stapp of B. Riley & Company.

Andy Stapp

Analyst · B. Riley & Company

Could you add a little bit more color you said and take it pretty balance interest rate sensitive to why is to slightly assets sensitive. As interest rates begin to pick upward and what you see the impact there including the impact of frozen loans?

Richard Hickson

Chairman

Buddy Wood want to comment on that and Jerry may want to comment on that.

Buddy Wood

Analyst · B. Riley & Company

I think one of the key test that we’ve run is pivoting around the yield curves in a number of different way. So that we don’t to shock, but don’t just ramp but we also twist occurs and do a variety of other types adjustments to see what could happen with all of the unknown potentials the outlook for interest rates and the change and chips for yield curve. With all of that we have run approximately less than 2% and rising interest rate sometime later in the year of our net interest income and we would say that in a worst case that might run up a little bit over 3% so somewhere in a range, if we don’t do anything in order to adjusted which is highly unlikely because at least try somewhat we have a special review where we just talked about all the alternatives from structured productive longer term deposit programs and all of the various borrowing that’s available towards from so many different sources at region if we get expensive rate. But that range we’d say that worse case the way we look at is we could see a 6 to $10 million negative kit if we did nothing at all and we believe that well within where we want to start this and just continue to monitor that closely as we see the behavior as early as today.

Bob Hardison

Analyst · B. Riley & Company

Buddy following into that relative to the situation on course or asset liability modeling and the comments that Richard made earlier about where we think the margin might go all reflective the impact of rising interest rates on those loans that the price for floors. On other words many of the spread as we put floors in and we were new loans we generally increase to spread to the existing into these whether it’s for LIBOR based. So the GAAP is not that significant it have included in our models we’ve included a projection on what we think will happen with loan volume over the next year. So what you have heard that I think – all those things in our model process.

Andy Stapp

Analyst · B. Riley & Company

Speaking a little volume I guess in your last call you are pretty – about loan growth in loan demand in – is a hope there?

Unidentified Participants

Analyst · B. Riley & Company

I will answer that question it alone anticipated loan volumes continues to be what call slightly – rest of the economy as we have did our customers, we hear that there are reducing your inventory level any CapEx project that they have on the board – post pound or completely eliminated as we talked to you before and we have – done a way with the indirect, direct - business they were seeing that portfolio run off within the way with the two loan business so we have seen a decrease in volumes that we wont have in the past. So we were working on is a focus on existing customers as well as opportunities that might exists its so they feel like they are getting customer that (Inaudible) thanks they feel like getting (Inaudible) service of opportunities to work they had at one time. So wet think being able to maintain a at slightly down level of volume through out 2010 of this versus well and that also would in June – out look models

Andy Stapp

Analyst · B. Riley & Company

Okay now get back in the queue as your appetite for FDIC deals change materially what you previously discussed, and also you could talk about. Where you would be looking for such deals do you want to stay in you foot print or potentially move outside you footprint? Richard Hickson Well, I guess the first comment I would make about that is (inaudible).

Andy Stapp

Analyst · B. Riley & Company

I can appreciate that. Richard Hickson Number two, we expand a very significant amount of time trying to understand what is really means to take on and go into business with the US government. We are viewing and refining the accounting of FDIC related transactions, we’re also spending a significant amount of time trying to understand how much effort working the loan problem portfolios will be recording, decision making who will make the decisions and the fact that Trustmark is not interested in getting all of our extremely skilled workout people working out deals that don’t impact Trustmark favorably. That does not mean we are not interested in FDIC transactions, it means that we want to go into anything that we do head up, we want to know that’s accretive and after we work on it for two, or three or four years that we have something that make us sense for the company when we get through. We do not want to go out and purchase a franchise with fuller to 40 branches of which we don’t like any of them where we would end up having to move the mall two plots (inaudible) and make another $50 million investments. So we will look at it very pragmatically, we would love to be in a transaction where we think we could increase our core deposits with the meaningful for particularly a company years down the road in managing our core position. When I think of our about footprints that covers Mississippi, Tennessee, Florida and Texas and anything in between. So I would say we would be food prints. I don’t see us in Southern Florida and I don’t see us in Western Texas. Other than that we would look, we prefer something that has some age and some retail quality to it. We now have (inaudible) don’t work for problem loans, but we would much prefer if we’re going to take all working out a bunch of real estate problems with the government, we would like to generally understand the lay end and the back. So we’re looking, we’re free, we have no rains on it. We have a (inaudible) we have the earnings and we have the personnel. So like deal comes along with the competitors. Outside of the FDIC, we surely not going to go product by problem bank without the FDIC, but if there are some weaknesses with something outside of the FDIC that we think are good intermediate long-term value and are diluted to us. And we take this view although retail system and just convert it instantly and save the turner money and use all of the damaging technology and our retail chains. We could consider that also.

Andy Stapp

Analyst · B. Riley & Company

Would you consider Central (inaudible) all your foot prints? Richard Hickson It would have to be a really good franchise and if it’s a really, really good franchise, there are no further people down there in central Florida that I would suspect we would be tough winning, but we would look at it. But that’s not our primary. You are talking Orlando down and through their, is not a primary purpose for us at this time.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes is from Albert Savastano of (inaudible).

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Good morning, guys, how are you? Two questions for you, just in terms of (inaudible) with loan demand that still be in anemic in your terms, does that mean about just can you say relatively flat intent? Richard Hickson Unless interest makes move up and there is some exceptional opportunity in mortgage bank.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

And then I was wondering if you can expand a little bit more on your comments in terms of taking of the second quarter volatility in charge offs with the Florida review maybe moving up forward to the fourth quarter?

Unidentified Participant

Analyst · KBW

We’re trying its varying offset. We do it year two the other agency regulatory loan loss methodologies and it encourages us to traffic anticipate as much as we can and or allow to do so.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Do you go and get more appraisals on the properties in the fourth quarter that you were to normally in the second is that kind of which date?

Unidentified Participant

Analyst · KBW

We are always apprising properties we had a number of appraisals in the fourth quarter but nothing like the second what we are working to try the smooth that out as much. We are trying to anticipate what might happen to appraisals over the length in Florida and trying to put some levels of appropriate discount level. We reserve for the second quarter, no every worked on next year, yes a lot of our losses that we will see in the second quarter will big loans or performing today and will be smaller real estate projects were we get new financials spring and the owners have just run out a cash.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Big projects that will be very small. Most of the balance things we’re dealing with our under a million dollars. So probably safe assume the charge offs for the in the first quarter and second quarter probably wont double they’ve done in the past couple of years.

Unidentified Participant

Analyst · KBW

I don’t believe that, if you’re talking about ’07 to ’08 that was big increase if you talking about ’09 to ’08 was fairly stable as you know you get most of your financial so you can do your global cash flows we get most tax return and most information there in the first and second quarter. So and the unique nature of the Panhandle of Florida being very seasonal systems weather in this and down in Southern Florida. We expect to see that we’re very cautious about and we’re working to smooth as much as we can. And Barry commented that we are very hopeful they’ve reserving in charge offs in 2007 will be below 2009.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Brian Klock of KBW.

Brian Klock

Analyst · KBW

I guess double type two things one within the other operating expense can you give us the break out of our recast in the fourth quarter.

Louis Greer

Analyst · KBW

In that fact sheet only in the foot notes back.

Brian Klock

Analyst · KBW

I would know.

Louis Greer

Analyst · KBW

The fourth quarter calls for other real estates versus the last 3, 4, $6 million to 59.

Brian Klock

Analyst · KBW

Richard for you. Do you guys have an updated I guess assessment of what the impact on your deposit service targets charges could be year-over-year looking at 2010 versus 2009?

Richard Hickson

Chairman

We had said before and we’re looking at the legislation is and play and anticipate what might be in place and a long short maybe 5 to $10 million on an annualize basis Gerry is just.

Unidentified Participant

Analyst · KBW

That’s a vary to our own estimates of what we have done as we fully once the accounts its all of our accounts 25% incurred and over drive below 75% of our accounts years period of time we’ve look that where that’s occurring frequency channel meaning (inaudible) is at point of sale, is it check and so we have all that data available and have been discussing a variety of different alternatives, options. We’ve looked what we do about a process of getting people who has in and what that will take. So I guess that was a long answer to your question. We are thoroughly evaluating what we have, how it works and has various alternatives and more clarity developed. I think we will be prepared, but as Richard mentioned we’ve done a rough estimates, we think it may somewhere in the 5 to $7 million impact at this point. But Jerry that would not be impacted until July of this year.

Louis Greer

Analyst · KBW

The legislation is not going affect until the first of July. So that would be a half year number and that’s what it will occur in the second half of the year.

Brian Klock

Analyst · KBW

I guess the 5 to $10 million of annualized half of that potentially could be on your 2010?

Richard Hickson

Chairman

We’re very careful projection we make there, just too much on (inaudible).

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Andy Stapp – B. Riley & Company.

Andy Stapp

Analyst · B. Riley & Company

Debit card impact that $5 million to $7 million you mentioned is that 2010 impact or a full year impact?

Richard Hickson

Chairman

That was an indicative of what it was in 2010 impact.

Andy Stapp

Analyst · B. Riley & Company

Okay. So it’s half-year impact.

Richard Hickson

Chairman

Half year, that’s correct.

Andy Stapp

Analyst · B. Riley & Company

Okay. And then you talked about getting your hands around Florida, what do you see in terms of sings of stabilization in real estate values?

Richard Hickson

Chairman

We are predicting, last year we said it was a 21% drop, we’re predicting these going to be less than that.

Andy Stapp

Analyst · B. Riley & Company

Substantially less or you don’t have --?

Richard Hickson

Chairman

Is very possible holistically it can be a percent or more, but we surely don’t know. But in looking at properties and looking at appraisals and looking at what appraisers are using for their discounts and the comps they are using, I think that would be unless there is really some change, I’m hoping that would take care of it.

Andy Stapp

Analyst · B. Riley & Company

And you are taken that into your no loss reserve model and valuing (inaudible)?

Richard Hickson

Chairman

Absolutely.

Operator

Operator

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Richard Hickson for any closing remarks.

Richard Hickson

Chairman

Thank you for joining us today. As you can see in addition to working on the great recession we have a number of other very positive things rolling on in the company. We’re very profitable, we have plenty of capital, we have 2600 associates that are (inaudible) and have very good skill set and all of our land of businesses we are seeking opportunities to increase shareholder value and let’s look forward to our results from the first quarter. Thank you for joining.

Operator

Operator

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today’s presentation. You may now disconnect.