Earnings Labs

The Toronto-Dominion Bank (TD)

Q3 2007 Earnings Call· Fri, Aug 24, 2007

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Transcript

Tim Thompson - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

Good afternoon and welcome to the welcome to the TD Bank Financial Group Third Quarter 2007 Investor Presentation. My name is Tim Thompson and I am Vice President of Investor Relations of the Bank. We will begin today's presentation with strategic remarks from Ed Clark, the Bank's CEO, after which Colleen Johnston, the Bank's CFO, will present our third quarter operating performance. We will then entertain questions from those present as well as pre-qualified analysts and investors on the phone. In response to feedback from previous calls, we are trying to keep the call to about one hour today, with Ed and Colleen’s remarks taking up aboth half of that time. As well, we are asking those participating in the question-and-answer of the call to ask one question at time, so that everybody has an opportunity to contribute. Other Executives present today include Bob Dorrance, Chairman and CEO of TD Securities; Tim Hockey and Bernie Dorval, Co-Chairs of TD Canada Trust; Bill Hatanaka, Chairman and CEO of TD Waterhouse; Bharat Masrani, President and CEO of TD Banknorth; and Mark Chauvin, Chief Risk Officer TD Bank Financial Group. Please turn to page two. We know that this presentation contains forward-looking statements and actual results could differ materially from what is discussed. Certain material factors or assumptions were applied in making these statements. For additional information, we refer you to our annual report. This document includes a description of factors that could cause actual results to differ and can be found on our website at td.com. Ed, over to you.

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

Thanks Tim and hello everyone and thank you for joining us today. In few minutes, Colleen is going to provide all of the details on the numbers for the third quarter of 2007. Before she does, let me start by giving you my perspective on our results and current events. Now, I know we are we are supposed to keep to keep this short today, but you are going to have to forgive me if I speak a little longer than normal because it actually has been a very busy last few weeks. Now turning to our results, simply put… we had an outstanding third quarter for TD Bank. We delivered adjusted earnings per share of $1. 60, that's an increase, up 32% over what was a very good third quarter last year and up 18% from a very strong quarter, second quarter. More pleasing to me than the numbers our performance is a validation of our strategy. A part of what makes us different, a different kind of Bank, is a way we position TD to deliver consistently growing earnings in our retail businesses, while shifting the risk return strategy within our wholesale business. TD Securities out performance reflected great results across its businesses, and was aided by the fact that as a Bank, we have always positioned our trading businesses conservatively. Long, both on volatility and credit protection. In the context of these great results, the Board has raised the divided to $0.57 or 8%. With this increase, our dividend this year up 19% in 2007 compared to 2006, a spectacular performance and great news for our shareholders. At the risk of being repetitive as you know, we have a consistent approach to the dividend and policy. Dividend increases were flat, in our view of increases in sustainable…

Colleen M. Johnston - Group Head Finance and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Thanks very much, Ed. Let me take you through the third quarter. Please turn to slide four. Let’s start with the quarterly highlights. Total Bank adjusted net income was $1.164 billion, up 31% from last year. This translated to adjusted EPS of $1.60, up 32% from last year. All of our businesses contributed to the growth, an excellent quarter overall. Our Canadian Retail businesses continue to perform very well, $723 million for the quarter, up 16% year-over-year. Net income from our U.S. Retail businesses TD Banknorth and TD Ameritrade was $168 million, up 37% from last year. Our Wholesale net income of $253 million was up a strong 41% versus last year and up 17% from a strong second quarter of 2007. The Corporate segment posted income of $20 million on an adjusted basis, improved from a loss of $37 million last year. Our capital ratios remained strong with our Tier 1 ratio at 10.2% and the tangible common equity ratio at 7.1%. We recently completed our 5 million share buyback. We continue to be very pleased with our productivity performance. At the all Bank level, adjusted revenues grew by 9% versus last year, while expenses on the same basis were up just 2%, a gap of 7%. This took our adjusted efficiency ratio to 57%. One page five, we see reported net income of $1.1 billion or $1.51 per share. We have two items of note this quarter. First, amortization of intangibles was $91 million this quarter or $0.13 per share. Second, changes in fair value of credit default swaps hedging the corporate loan book. This pertains to mark-to-market on credit protection purchased on corporate loans. During the quarter, the market value of credit protection increased as credit spreads widened, which amounted to a gain of $30 million or…

Question and Answer

Management

Tim Thompson - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

Thanks, Colleen. As I mentioned at the beginning of the call, we are asking those participating in the question-and-answer portion to ask one question at a time. Certainly, feel free to join the queue several times if you have more than one question. So, with that, let’s get started. First question? Jim?

James Bantis - Credit Suisse First Boston

Management

Ed, you alluded to the change in branch hours just to focus on the topic, 50% increase in certain branches relative to the peers. Already number one in customer service, already had longer branch hours. How do you manage this stuff being overkill versus… in terms of your staffing requirements and just talk about maybe the benefits that you get from this?

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

So, we think it’s important to play to your strength. We think that the competitive market around service has increased. And so, as a result we do a lot of research as you can imagine on this, and we know the customer still care about it. So, it doesn’t let us off the hook from our expense growth paradigm of 3%. By any means, it’s another investment, because we are already 25% more hours in the competition, we see this as an incremental add that so far the competition hasn’t matched. And so, we are quite comfortable that it drives our revenue and we keep our expense growth inside that revenue growth.

James Bantis - Credit Suisse First Boston

Management

In the… when you think of some of the key products that benefit most from branch hours that should help revitalize the deposit base, market share that’s been eroding past couple of quarters?

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

Yes and more particularly the one we care about most which is the core banking, thicker margin checking account, which is generally what’s driven by branch hours as opposed to the tighter margin term and high interest savings account.

Tim Thomson - Vice President, Investor relations

Management

Thanks, Jim. Go ahead, Michael.

Michael Goldberg - Desjardins Securities

Management

Thank you. My question’s on BCE just to follow-up on your comments, Ed. I feel like we don’t know the whole picture and obviously we are not going to know the whole picture. But one thing in particular, $3.8 billion commitment as I understand it overall that represents over 18% of your common equity at the end of the quarter. And I just find it hard to believe that you commit 18.4% of your common on any one transaction or counter party, non-government counter party unless you were awfully certain that your commitment was offset by equally solid take out commitments. So, how can you provide any comfort on this issue?

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

I don’t think we are going to get into the details of this transaction to that extent. I am just telling you, I don’t think my track record tells you that I am a crazy man on risk. I am very comfortable. The question I always ask myself is knowing everything I know today, will I redo this transaction in a heart beat?

Michael Goldberg - Desjardins Securities

Management

Thanks.

Tim Thomson - Vice President, Investor relations

Management

Ian?

Ian De Verteuil - BMO Nesbitt Burns

Management

Hi. A question for Bharat. When I look at the average loans and average deposits in Canadian Dollars which you show here even if I adjust for currency, it looks on a linked quarter basis as if there is no… as if it’s unchanged. And I think TD Bank USA is now included in here, I think came in this quarter. So, I would have thought that you would have done a bit better on the volume front. And isn’t there an opportunity to really break away from the pack here and go off the jumbos, sort of non-qualifying mortgages that other people seem to be walking away from.

Bharat B. Masrani - President and Chief Executive Officer, TD Banknorth Inc.

Management

Yes. From a core perspective, you are right, we have had flat numbers. But there are some good signs on the commercial loan book. The pipeline is healthy, I would say. And we are starting to see some momentum on that side. However, it’s been offset by run off in the consumer lending book. To some extent is understandable given some of the issues that are going on in our markets. On the deposits side, I think overall deposits are slightly up thanks to the Earn Smart account that Colleen talked about. It was off set somewhat by declining government deposits, but I would say that was by design, because those are not very profitable, sometimes loss making deposits. So, overall, I feel good with return of the momentum we have got. With respect to your question isn’t this a good opportunity. Yes, I would say it is a good opportunity, in a sense that at TD Banknorth we do not have any direct exposure to some of the problem areas that you talked about. And therefore, in a way, it gives us an opportunity. So, we did introduce over the weekend actually, a 30 year fixed rate home equity loan to offset some of the liquidity issues in the jumbo market, because we would be happy to take some of those loans. Those are good loans as long as the credit standards need. So, I feel that there is opportunity there. But having said that, some of the turmoil could result and headwinds as well for some of our commercial clients, and I am watching that. But overall, I feel good that some of the initiatives we announced on Investor Day on June 28 are taking hold and we are making progress.

Tim Thomason - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

We go to the phone lines please. First caller?

Operator

Operator

Your first question comes from Andre Hardy from RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead. André-Philippe Hardy - RBC Capital Markets: This question is probably for Colleen. We have got a narrower prime B spread. We have got rising wholesale rates. Can you talk about where that hurts margins? And also where you are able to increase margins as a results of spreads on some of your loans, they are probably expanding faster on the corporate side than your funding costs are rising? I guess net-net what is the impact of the movements in credits spreads on your margins?

Colleen M. Johnston - Group Head Finance and Chief Financial Officer

Management

So, Andre, we talked about the key area for margins which is TD Canada Trust and we expect those margins to remain relatively stable. Obviously, we have a large retail deposit base there as rates are increased. We tend to see some widening of the margins. So, we expect our margins to remain relatively stable. And you might see some changes related to mix, the same would be true in TD Banknorth. But you are also seeing pretty much a stabilization of those margins as well versus last quarter. André-Philippe Hardy - RBC Capital Markets: Are we going to see a hit or a benefit in the Wholesale Bank of the Corporate segment?

Colleen M. Johnston - Group Head Finance and Chief Financial Officer

Management

No. I don’t think you will. I think that will be pretty neutral. André-Philippe Hardy - RBC Capital Markets: Okay. Thanks.

Tim Thomason - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

Next caller please.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Brad Smith of Blackmont Capital. Please go ahead.

Brad Smith - Blackmont Capital

Analyst · Blackmont Capital. Please go ahead

Bharat, my question relates to the slide on the Wholesale banking exposures. I was just wondering if you might be able to provide some detail on your non-subprime CDO exposures in terms of perhaps amounts and the sectors that you are exposed to. And also I was just interested if you could provide a little bit more detail as to what non-direct lending exposure you might have to hedge funds because I see here you have no direct exposure? Thank you.

Bharat B. Masrani - President and Chief Executive Officer, TD Banknorth Inc.

Management

First the CDO exposure. I mean given our decision to exit the structured products, we have very little… we don’t really have any exposure to CDO’s that would formed of the category that would be difficult to value or be illiquid or have long model retail risk. With respect to the question on hedge funds exposures, we have always been very conservative in this area. And so, the only exposure we have is we will only take short-term interest rates soft of FX exposure maybe to a term up to two years. And we only really to do that on a collateralizes basis, meaning that all the exposure to us is be pledged cash to us. We have implemented caps several years ago. We are well within those caps. They haven’t changed recently, and it’s not really a material number.

Brad Smith - Blackmont Capital

Analyst · Blackmont Capital. Please go ahead

Thank you. I was just wondering if you could put a dollar amount on the CDO exposures that you do have currently. What’s the aggregate number?

Bharat B. Masrani - President and Chief Executive Officer, TD Banknorth Inc.

Management

No I think I… the only really CDO exposure that we are comfortable with is in the references index. The indexes, which are very liquid in the credit trading area. I would really prefer not to put a specific number on it.

Brad Smith - Blackmont Capital

Analyst · Blackmont Capital. Please go ahead

Thank you.

Tim Thomason - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

Next caller please.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from Sumit Malhotra of Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead.

Sumit Malhotra - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Hi, good afternoon. This question is either for Colleen or Bob probably. If I just look at the total trading number in Wholesale banking, I see $308 million. I was hoping you could give us a little more color on the loss of $87 million we see in other income for the trading under the fair value option. That’s larger than we have seen since the standards came in. Could you tell us if we should look at those two numbers for trading and the fair value trading number in combination?

Colleen M. Johnston - Group Head Finance and Chief Financial Officer

Management

Yes. Let me help you out on that one Sumit. So, the $87 million is… there is really two components of that. About three quarters of that number relates to loans that are in our trading book, and those are fully hedged. So, you would see an offset loans that are in our trading book and those are fully hedged. So, you would see an offset in the line in trading income. So, when you are looking at trading related income, that three quarters of the fair value amount as well as the trading income and other income should be factored into trading related income. The other component part as we have referenced in the footnote is related to insurance, that’s about one quarter of the amount, and you would see that as an offset to our insurance revenues also and other income. So, this is really a classification issue more than anything. But you are right it is a larger number that you have seen and I think that reflects movements in the …. in certainly in the loan trading side.

Sumit Malhotra - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Okay. To go along with it, would there be any… when you mentioned loan trading, will there be any issue or any offset with higher net interest income in wholesale, because that does seem to be a higher number even act to the trading. Is that have anything to do with this--?

Colleen M. Johnston - Group Head Finance and Chief Financial Officer

Management

I think that’s what’s driving your model, precisely is that if in fact, if you factor in those three quarters of the 87 and do the calculation on that then you will come up with a number that looks more normalized versus Q2 and the prior Q3.

Sumit Malhotra - Merrill Lynch

Analyst · Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead

Okay. Thanks.

Tim Thomason - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

Next caller please.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from Shannon Cowherd from Citigroup. Please go ahead.

Shannon Cowherd - Citigroup

Analyst · Citigroup. Please go ahead

Hi. I realized it’s not that large, but could you give some color to the magnitude of the contribution from VFC?

Bharat B. Masrani - President and Chief Executive Officer, TD Banknorth Inc.

Management

Sure. I would say that, yes it’s not that large. But it continues to grow exactly on plan. Year-over-year the performance is not that high. I think we indicated last quarter that because it is now built into our year-over-year run rate, but was a bump up of over 1% in revenues for example has now built into the base. So, it just continues to grow nicely as we expected it to.

Tim Thomason - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

Next caller.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from Mario Mendonca of Genuity Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Mario Mendonca - Genuity Capital Markets

Analyst · Genuity Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Good afternoon. The question for Ed. In your closing remarks, you suggested that… I am talking about the future, you said that retail and commercial conditions still look good despite all the turmoil, nothing is really deteriorating. Were you being specific, in so far as leaving out the capital markets environment, maybe assuming… it might be more build [ph] to someone else, but what’s the outlook on capital markets specifically trading, because that was obviously a big quarter?

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

Why don’t I give this over to Bob? So, I think it is notoriously difficult to predict capital markets, but I am sure he is up to it.

Robert E. Dorrance - Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President

Analyst · Genuity Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Thanks. Did really, well, last time. I guess the… our view would be given the turbulence that’s happening in capital markets in August that it’s providing both opportunities in trading and also risk in trading. So, I think until this quiets down a little bit and stabilizes, I would consider more of a head win for the Wholesale Banking business. We had a quarter in Q3 where all the major businesses did well. They weren’t all at records, but when all major businesses are doing well and we are not showing any losses in credit losses and we are not… expenses under a good control, obviously, gives you an idea of what… what one might make in a quarter when every thing is firing on all cylinders. That really happens. So, I don’t think… we don’t look at Q3 and say well that’s an expectation of a run rate and Wholesale banking. What we do look at, however, is what business is that we do have and they are not all correlated. There is variety of different businesses though we have in wholesale. As we enter a period where we do have a head win, some of those that are more transactionally driven will suffer more. We do not, however, have the only transaction businesses, and we continue to have high expectations in the non-transaction businesses. So, difficult markets means head wins in Wholesale like where we are in terms of the businesses that we have. We like the risk that we have. We don’t see large volatility in our business. We don’t see major credit losses. We don’t see major trading losses, but we do see head wins. And I think as Ed alluded to the fourth quarter and maybe this is why I didn’t put it in… the fourth quarter for Wholesale doesn’t tend to be a great quarter. If you look historically at where we are, we don’t see that forecast changing. As you look into ’08, we have good strategies. We are focused on executing them. And we will see what the earnings derive there from. But we are not looking for big volatility.

Mario Mendonca - Genuity Capital Markets

Analyst · Genuity Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Not changing your… the range you have historically given us for Wholesale?

Robert E. Dorrance - Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President

Analyst · Genuity Capital Markets. Please go ahead

I am not.

Mario Mendonca - Genuity Capital Markets

Analyst · Genuity Capital Markets. Please go ahead

I can’t change it for you.

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

In guessing what the range is for the center, we have not done particularly good and in guessing the number for Bob, we have not been particularly good. I do think that if that’s were probably… we will probably have nudged that number upward. We will obviously achieve more progress in building our core franchise business faster than we thought, we were going to make. So, I think it’s stronger. On the other hand, there is any doubt that this year is an unusually… going to turn out to be an unusually good year. I think when we look at our overall businesses and if we start with the world that we are 80, 20 business, since we got 80% sitting in the retail business, that’s pretty solid constant growth potential in it. And secondly, when we look historically, when people associate volatility in the Wholesale business, it’s less driven from their revenue line than it is from bad things happening to them either on the PCO side or trading losses. And we have addressed both of those issues in our business. It doesn’t mean you won’t have trading losses, but the big downside we have taken out. So, we do think that we will end up with a dealer that I think will has to retrieve probably what we did in 2007. But as clearly will be a solid performer because of the nature of the dealer we have built.

Mario Mendonca - Genuity Capital Markets

Analyst · Genuity Capital Markets. Please go ahead

But just to be clear, the 525 to 625 you historically given us, you don’t want to move away from that right now?

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

We haven’t formerly moved that number up, but I would admit that 525 sounds like a very low number today given what we have been able to produce.

Mario Mendonca - Genuity Capital Markets

Analyst · Genuity Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Despite the environment?

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

Yes.

Mario Mendonca - Genuity Capital Markets

Analyst · Genuity Capital Markets. Please go ahead

Thank you.

Tim Thomason - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

Next caller please.

Operator

Operator

The next question comes from John Aiken from Dundee Securities. Please go ahead.

John Aiken - Dundee Securities

Analyst · Dundee Securities. Please go ahead

Good afternoon. I know you disclosed that you didn’t have any exposure to the third party asset back commercial paper conduits. And my understanding is that you are not very big in within the bank on, but taking a look at the Montreal Accord, if it does… if it ends up dissolving or doesn’t help the liquidity issue, is there any potential or what you see is the risk of infection coming through in terms of some of your other domestic lending volume growth?

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

I am not sure, I fully understand the question. I think if I can comment, I think one of the things that was a very positive outcome over the last few weeks was the six major banks all acted together to say we have to drop certain Maginot lines here and start stop contingent. And I think we ended up collectively deciding that Maginot line was bank conduits versus non-bank conduits. And it wasn’t… there is no question you could go through and say what the good people or bad things happen on bank conduits and good things happen on non-bank conduits. So, might not be a perfect split. But I think when you are dealing with markets, you got to make life pretty simple. And so, we ended up making that simple distinction to say we were going to collectively act together to ensure the good operating of the bank conduits. I think we will… we have done that successfully and I think that’s a great outcome and then there is effect of the non-bank conduits as we indicate we really have zero earnings exposure here because we make sure that it wasn’t in our system, either in our client’s accounts or in the things that we put them in. So, we have no exposure.

John Aiken - Dundee Securities

Analyst · Dundee Securities. Please go ahead

Thanks, Ed.

Tim Thompson - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

Next caller please.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from Ohad Lederer of Veritas Investment Research. Please go ahead.

Ohad Lederer - Veritas Investment Research

Analyst · Veritas Investment Research. Please go ahead

Good afternoon. Just a question about Wholesale markets. The Bank has exited global structure products, dropped market risk over the last couple of years. I want to talk about not going into the serve longer tail… types of risks. The one number that does seem to really jump out is credit default swaps. Overall, notional amount of the trading is up very significantly. The swaps greater than five years in term. The growth rate is even higher. Just wondering, I guess a general question and a specific question, in general terms could you talk about the risks in that business? What proprietary versus client, what the revenue contribution is? And then specifically, I understand a lot of the non-bank ABC conduit have been using CDS to synthetically create some of their assets. Does TD do any trading of that sort with the conduits?

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

Why don’t I start with the trading part of the business? On our credit trading business, which is a proprietary business that we run as a relative credit trading strategy where we are trading… where we would be trading bonds versus CDS for example on a hedge basis. So, what we look for is relative value opportunities within credit markets between asset classes, between term structure et cetera. We look for our options in bonds et cetera that you can monetize through the use of credit default protection. So, we tend not to take directional views on credit. We tend to take relative views on credit, and we would use credit default swaps in terms of building relative value positions. In terms of counterparty, I would let Mark Chauvin talk about that.

Mark R. Chauvin - Chief Risk Officer

Analyst · Veritas Investment Research. Please go ahead

I think to the later part of your question, do we saw credit default protection from the synthetic items that would be in the conduits to third parties? We do not. We have strict standards on what qualifies as acceptable CDS protection and that would not be a class that would fall into it. In terms of the risk within the overall credit trading book, I mean, the standards that we use are to make sure that where we do source protection from indexes, which are extremely liquid. There is clear market, and we have the ability to independently verify the valuations at all times. So, we are very comfortable with what we have and what we see at a point in time. And it’s a large book, but I mean reality is that they are offsetting. I mean it’s a long and short position. And on a net basis, we keep them with what we consider to be reasonable risk tolerance limits.

Ohad Lederer - Veritas Investment Research

Analyst · Veritas Investment Research. Please go ahead

Okay. Thank you.

Tim Thomason - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

Let’s go back to the floor here. Ian?

Ian De Verteuil - BMO Nesbitt Burns

Management

Bob, I know these are tough markets, but see I am sling there. It’s tougher than I thought.

Robert E. Dorrance - Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President

Analyst · Veritas Investment Research. Please go ahead

Happened in August.

Ian De Verteuil - BMO Nesbitt Burns

Management

When I look at the trading revenues, one of the things leaps out is the TEB component. When you think about the risk… market is dealt with volatility and liquidity, but surely there is tax risk on this business. I mean it seems to be over 50% of the revenues. And if you… TEB just 161 and total revenues of 308. So, TEB has a huge numbers, the percent of this. I mean how can you make us comfortable in the… that’s a little risk business?

Robert E. Dorrance - Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President

Analyst · Veritas Investment Research. Please go ahead

I think… and Ed make… speak to this as well. I think we are… we take a very conservative view on tax line in TDBFG overall. So, I think, what we look to do in is tax strategies that we are using to… that generate TEB revenue. We are comfortable with what we see the risk that we are taking there. I am not the tax expert. It’s a… we have a very, I think, conservative tax area in terms various interfaces that we have with tax at TD that’s… Ed.

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

I guess what I would say to build on Bob’s point. I think what you have is a consistency of culture. It’s very difficult to run institutions and run inconsistent cultures either you tend to have in one direction or go in the other. And when you start going in a particular direction, I think, part of the reason you are getting the results that you are getting today, part of the reason why even on our balance sheet, you don’t see us running into trouble is that we all have a view. And we have a view that says, we have the banking business, it’s got to be one of the most spectacular business in the world to be in if only people would not have accidents. And with the performance between great companies and not great companies isn’t distinguished year-to-year. What it is, is do you avoid all the pitfalls. And so, I think even in respective tax, you will find the same conservatism built into us that we want to make sure we do nothing that would ever get us into any trouble.

Tim Thomason - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

Jim?

James Bantis - Credit Suisse First Boston

Management

Yesterday we saw that Banc of America has stepped into provide some support to countrywide. And I know the Banknorth model on near term is more of an organic one. But when you see these difficult times and perhaps they are more than a headwind. But if you see a competitor in the local marketplace that’s under distress, is this an opportunity for the bank to take advantage of those situations?

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

I think obviously, we watch this closely. There actually have been a couple of sales of small banks in our footprint that we might have gone on. We didn’t see a price reduction in them that we thought correspond to what’s going on here. So, as I said in previous meetings, we wanted Banknorth to focus on organic. We get its game plan down. My nightmare scenario is that something comes along that’s strategic, that I can’t… I really can’t miss and it comes at a price and I am prepared to pay. And so far that hasn’t happened. But obviously that dilemma could still arise in the circumstances, but we did pass on a couple of deals.

James Bantis - Credit Suisse First Boston

Management

Okay. Thank you.

Tim Thomason - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

Michael?

Michael Goldberg - Desjardins Securities

Management

TD Canada Trust or Canadian Personal and Commercial net interest revenue was 13.88 this quarter, and it’s up significantly from the second quarter, which is a short quarter. If I adjust for the number of days in the second quarter, it’s up about 4.6%. And if you look at the margin increase few basis points that would account for both 0.6% growth. So, I am wondering where the other 4% came from. I noticed that you commented that mortgage breakage fees for revenue contributed to higher net interest revenue. How much was that? How much did that account for the increase? And what else contributed to the increase in the quarter?

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

So, Michael, we are not going to disclose individual items. But mortgage breakage was an uptick and due to what is a great underlying trend, which is that the actual real estate secured lending market is quite strong and robust. And whenever that happens more customers look to refinance. I am just looking at some of the breakdown, I have slightly different, but the numbers than you might have calculated. But the base volume growth sequentially, linked quarters is accounts for a couple of points of our overall 5.8% growth. It’s a pretty broad based. I am just looking at the various different pieces that I look at. Sales and service fees, home and auto insurance, days impact. So, there is a number of positive ones that all add up to that 5.8%. So, it’s pretty broad based. We are quite comfortable with it.

Michael Goldberg - Desjardins Securities

Management

Was the mortgage breakage… was that the biggest component?

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

The mortgage breakage was… no, not the biggest point.

Tim Thomason - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

Callers please on the phone? Next one?

Operator

Operator

Next question comes from Darko Mihelic of CIBC World Markets. Please go ahead.

Darko Mihelic - CIBC World Markets

Analyst · CIBC World Markets. Please go ahead

Hi, my question is for Bob. I will squeeze two in here. Bob, have you lowered trading risk limits, and secondly, being this far into August. What can you tell us about the revenue so far?

Robert E. Dorrance - Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President

Analyst · CIBC World Markets. Please go ahead

No, we haven’t… [Technical Difficulty]. No, we have not changed our trading risk limits. I mean obviously, we haven’t changed our limits, I think different bests would respond to lower levels of liquidity in the marketplace by just adopting less risk where that’s suitable. And I don’t think I want to get into commenting about monthly progress in trading.

Darko Mihelic - CIBC World Markets

Analyst · CIBC World Markets. Please go ahead

Okay. Thank you.

Tim Thomason - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

We will take one last question from the line, please.

Operator

Operator

The next question is a follow-up question from Andre Hardy from RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead. André-Philippe Hardy - RBC Capital Markets: Thanks. One for Tim Hockey. Tim, as you retool the credit scoring on the unsecured lending machine or whatever you call it. You had some vintages and higher losses than you thought. Do you have indications that the retooling is working in terms of bringing those losses down.

Timothy D. Hockey - Co-Chair, TD Canada Trust

Analyst · RBC Capital Markets

Yes. There was a slight uptick as you know in the actual gross amount. One way to think about that in PCL this last quarter is a little over half of the growth was in the PCL number was actually due to growth in the underlying book. A couple it was the remaining operational issues that we had talked about. So, those are being fixed and about one I would say that eight growth quarter-over-quarter was due to the credit quality issues that we talked about. The tools that we have now put in place, we have now started to implement as series of quick fixes and then there is a series of longer term fixes that will be implemented. We have quite a strong degree of faith that the actual tool itself and the precision of the changes will be effective. But the issue, of course, with these is that it will take some time as in six to 18 months to actually verify 100% that it had the desired effect. But we are quite confident of these changes. We will start proving themselves out. André-Philippe Hardy - RBC Capital Markets: Okay. Thank you.

Tim Thomason - Vice President, Investor Relations

Management

Before ending the call, I will ask Ed to make some concluding remarks.

W. Edmund - President and Chief Executive Officer

Management

Well, the first one thing that I want to say is that I have very limited opportunities to take money off my management team on the golf course as you will understand. But you can’t always suck them in they have got an old foggy like me would not say open at eight six days straight impact great. So, here’s the $10 for having done that. Anyway, it was obviously from my point of view a great quarter and as I say our better quarter because I think in addition to the numbers I think it demonstrated value of all the strategic moves that we make, the strength of our fundamental businesses that we have been managing to build. I think our team is very clearly… we are extremely comfortable with what our approach to risk has been both on the credit and the market side. And I think that making those changes has paid off. And I think when we look forward, obviously, 2007 is going to be a great year. We will, obviously, clearly exceed our earning objectives for 2007, but we remain very positive about 2008. Thank you.