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SPX Technologies, Inc. (SPXC)

Q3 2010 Earnings Call· Wed, Nov 3, 2010

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good day ladies and gentleman. And welcome to the third quarter 2010 SPX Earnings Conference Call. My name is Alicia and I will be your coordinator for today's call. At this time all participants are in a listen-only mode. We will be conducting a question and answer session towards the end of the conference. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the presentation over to your host for today’s call, Mr. Ryan Taylor, Director of Investor Relations. Please proceed, sir.

Ryan Taylor

Management

Thanks, Alicia. Good morning every one. We appreciate you joining us today. With me today on the call are Chris Kearney, our Chairman, President and CEO of SPX, and our Chief Financial Officer, Patrick O'Leary. This morning's call is being webcast with a slide presentation which you can also access in the investor relations section of our website spx.com. This webcast will be available until November 17, and I encourage you to follow along with the webcast as we reference the detailed information on the slides. Please note that the slide presentation also includes supplemental schedules, which provide reconciliations for all non-GAAP financial measures discussed today. Our earnings press release was issued this morning and can also be found on our website. Before we continue, I would like to point out that portions of our presentation and comments are forward looking and subject to Safe Harbor Provisions. The updated 2010 EPS and free cash flow guidance that we discuss today is on an adjusted basis, and also from continuing operation. Please also note risk factors in our most recent SEC filings. And with that, I will turn the call over to Chris.

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Thanks Ryan, and good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us on the call this morning. The third quarter results marked our strongest operating performance of the year so far. We reported overall organic revenue growth for the first time since Q4 2008, driven by strong demand in many of our early-cycle businesses, growth in emerging markets, and solid project execution. Recovering, our TM markets is progressing largely in line with our expectations. In Q3, we were encouraged by a sustained momentum, in our early cycle businesses. We also saw some modest signs of increased demand in our late cycle tower and energy businesses. From a strategic perspective, we completed the acquisition of Anhydro, which we believe is in excellent strategic fit with our flow technology segment. We also refinanced a significant portion of our outstanding debt during the quarter. I’ll begin this morning with an overview of the consolidated results for the quarter as compared to the prior year. Reported revenue increased 10% to $1.3 billion. Organic revenue growth was 7%. All four segments reported organic growth, led by test and measurement at 24%. Geographically, sales into Asia-Pacific increased by nearly 30%, highlighted by sales into China, which grew by more than 50%. Revenue also increased 11% in the Americas and 1% in EMEA. Sales in emerging markets accounted for 26% of total revenue in the period, consistent with the first half of this year. Segment income increased to $158 million or 12.2% of revenue. This exceeded our targets primarily due to stronger than expected operating results in our Thermal and Test & Measurement segments. Excluding one-time charges related to our debt refinancing, third quarter earnings per share increased 13% year over year to $1.11 per share. We ended the quarter with our backlog at about $3 billion, up 8%…

Chris

Management

Thanks, Patrick. So in closing, we’re pleased with our results for the third quarter, which included broad based organic revenue growth and a double-digit increase in earnings per share. Orders were up sequentially and year-over-year, and our backlog increased by 8%. Global expansion was a key driver of our Q3 performance and continues to be in an important area of focus throughout our organization. In China, we have purchased land and are moving forward to consolidate our manufacturing in to one location. We expect to begin manufacturing at this facility by 2012. We have appointed a managing director to lead our development efforts in India and Africa where we believe there are strong growth opportunities for many of our businesses. And in Europe we have established a shared-service center that has begun supporting our European operations. The acquisition of Anhydro and Gerstenberg Schroder have strengthened our global position in food and beverage market. The integration of these businesses is progressing as planned and we’re very excited to have them as part of our global technology team. We continue to monitor additional strategic investments and believe our financial position provides us with sufficient flexibility to execute on future opportunities as they arise. We have seen recovery in many of our early cycle businesses throughout the first nine months of the year. However, with probably 2/3 of our business being mid to late cycle, our recovery has lagged a broader economy as we anticipated. Naturally, the economic recovery in 2010 has driven an increase in electricity demand, a positive indicator for our late cycle power businesses. In the second half of this year, we have seen modest signs of improvement in the order activity in our key power and energy markets. If this improvement continues, we believe we can see some level of recovery in these businesses in the latter part of 2011, and into 2012. We remain confident in the long-term outlook for our key-end markets and plan to continue to execute our long-term strategy. So thanks for joining us on the call this morning, and at this time, we’re ready to take your questions.

Operator

Operator

(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from the line of Shannon O’Callaghan from Nomura. Please proceed.

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Hey, Shannon. Good morning. Shannon O’Callaghan – Nomura: Morning, guys. Hey, just a question on the retrofits in the U.S. and I guess developed markets broadly on the Power Gen side in Thermal. You know, it seems like we keep hearing more and more and more there. Do you feel like this is a wave of pent-up demand that has some legs to it, or just a feel for what you’re hearing in the projects that have happened?

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Well we know, Shannon, that that retrofit market has been underspent during the recession. We know that the dynamics would logically support improvement, and particularly improvement focused on greater efficiency and environmental awareness in that area. The recession has been part of the cause. You know, another has been, we talked about this before, uncertainty, particularly in the U.S. around economic policy going forward. We’ve always felt that the underlying dynamics were very positive and that sooner or later those had to start coming through. We’re encouraged by the couple of projects that I mentioned on the call this morning and if you look at the market overall, it would support the need for more of that. But the nature of this business, as we know, is that it is, you know, project related, it tends to be choppy, but when we look at our business, medium to long term, we like and we’re encouraged by the drivers out there. Shannon O’Callaghan – Nomura: Okay. And then, you know, this is the first time I remember you mentioning this – the competitive dynamics in the package-cooling side. Can you just fill that out a little bit and let us know what’s happening?

Chris Kearney

Chairman

That business, we actually talked about that before. That part of the business has always been more competitive because there are more players in that wet-related business, the package cooling business. That’s true in the United States, it’s true in Europe, it’s true in the Asia-Pacific market. We think that one of the things that makes us attractive overall in that market is the innovative concept that we’re engineering into those products and the broad technology that we offer as a solution. And on the operating side, we’ve made terrific progress, you know, over the last several years in terms of leading our operation, particularly our facility in Alatha, Kansas and rationalizing our footprint around the world, focusing our production in developing markets in best-cost countries. And Drew and his team really streamlined their organization. It’s always been competitive. We’ve been reactive to that situation in terms of how we’ve structured our organization and how we focused on operations and efficiency. And we’ve been proactive in terms of our focus on innovative new project solutions. So we think, over time, that business will continue to get better for us under the leadership that’s there and we’re pretty confident in terms of the product offering we have out there. Shannon O’Callaghan – Nomura: Okay. So I should read the call-out on the slide as sort of intensifying pricing pressure or something like that?

Chris Kearney

Chairman

I think it’s a continuation of a market that’s always been pretty competitive. Shannon O’Callaghan – Nomura: Okay. Just last one. Patrick, have you taken a look at Pension for you guys next year and where it might head? Patrick O’Leary: Yeah, I mean, it’s a little early for us for pension. As you know, we’re sort of out of the pension business, so we don’t offer any pensions anymore. All of the people in the main U.S. plant aren’t invested in the plan. So the drivers of the accounting outcome are really the investment performance and discount rate. We do expect that pension will be a headwind for us next year, maybe in the $0.10 or $0.15 range. From a funding perspective, we’re putting about 35 million-plus into pensions this year, as shown in my remarks. Sorry, I meant to say $0.05 to $0.10 earnings per share headwind for next year. For funding, you know, certainly funding will increase next year. You know, at a minimum in the 30 to $35 million range, we are right around 80% funded. So we are monitoring the overall funding situation of the plans very, very closely. Shannon O’Callaghan – Nomura: Okay. Thanks, guys.

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Thanks, Shannon.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Steve Tusa with JP Morgan. Please proceed. Stephen Tusa – JP Morgan: Hi. Good morning. Can you hear me?

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Good morning, Steve. We can hear you. Stephen Tusa – JP Morgan: Great. I just wanted to get a little bit more information on transformers. The margin looks like it went down sequentially to kind of a mid-single digit range. You know, you gave us the EPS year-over-year hit, does that – am I calculating that correct?

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Yes, you are. Stephen Tusa – JP Morgan: So the dynamics of the cycle, when you guys start to see that volume pick up and you say pricing is stabilized, you know, from a – on a sequential basis, how much further, you said they have tough margin comps year over year obviously, but on a sequential basis where do these margins go over the next couple of quarters given that price is now stabilized? Patrick O’Leary: Well, they should be [inaudible] based on the fact that we’ve seen flattish pricing. What’s actually happening here is that, you know, we’re going through the cycle down to and it’s not against the calendar year. It was really sort of mid-year to mid-year. We did publish a chart at EPG that showed the sort of peaks and troughs that were allowed to cycle. What actually happens, which is where we are now, you get to the point where you are at the bottom of the cycle on pricing you see the demand coming up. Price recovery typically lags demand improvement by a couple quarters. The demand improvement was noticeable in September in particular. And so you know, what actually happens then is you work off the backlog at the lower pricing. And right now, you know, as demand comes up, obviously lead times comes up and the delivery dates are moving out somewhat. We are right now probably in the five-to-six month range so we’re, you know, sold out to Q1 and working on filling out Q2 on average. So I think you’re going to see similar margin deployments in Q1 as we work off that backlog, and certainly in the second half of the year, we’ve got easier comparisons. And if volume remains moving in the direction that it is, we should see some price improvements. Down cycle isn’t necessarily an indication of what this recovery will be because we reached higher peak margins in this last cycle than in the previous cycle. But if you look at what happens, it really – it steps up over about three years where we get nice sequential improvement three years in a row on both volume and pricing and then kind of comes back out to the top of the cycle again. Stephen Tusa – JP Morgan: Yeah, we’ll worry about three years from now three years from now. So given that this business is put in a firm bottom here, you know, this is the function of kind of the maintenance budget coming back for the use and then some of these transmission and distribution projects that we’ve been hearing about? Is that what you’re seeing for your utility customers?

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Yes. I think in terms of what we’re seeing in terms of median transformer demand now, what’s driving that is replacement business and reflecting a market that’s been underspent during this recessionary period and down cycle. And then with respect to new power generation coming on, particularly in renewables, we think at the transmission end that will drive some additional demand, which certainly we think should happen and is part of our plan in terms of the new capacity that we’re adding to Waukesha. Stephen Tusa – JP Morgan: And then one last question. Just on the fourth quarter numbers, [inaudible].

Chris Kearney

Chairman

I’m sorry? I think we lost him.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Bob Cornell from Barclays. Please proceed. Bob Cornell – Barclays Capital: Following up on Steve’s point on transformers, I mean, so the pricing that you’re experiencing is better or worse than the pricing in the current revenues? Patrick O’Leary : Pricing has been about flat quarter-on-quarter, Bob. But if you look at going back over the last, you know, if you looked at comparing pricing in the backlog today versus a year ago, it’s down. So what’s actually going to happen is you’re going to see that backlog move out at the kind of low-single digits margin performance you saw in Q4. And I expect that to continue into Q1, through Q1 and into the early part of Q2. And then you know, obviously we need to see how orders develop. There’s some spending in advance of budget expiration, but looking at the orders we’re taking, they’re for delivery in 2011 and so there clearly is signs across the market of some elevated level of customer spending for the majority of the customers in 2011 over 2010. Bob Cornell – Barclays Capital: Okay. I think you got it. So on a thermal business, you know, just give us – you talked about the South African project, but you also talked about the – the firming up of the financing, and you also referenced the next potential build. Maybe if you could just give us some more detail on what’s going on there.

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Well again, the nature of the thermal business is, you know very well, Bob, it is project oriented. So the order trends tend to be very choppy. Orders on dry cooling trends were very light in the first half of the year. What we’ve seen in recent months is what we talked about this morning, some significant new thermal orders in the U.S. power market coming on for more than $100 million. That phenomenon is really repeated in different parts of the world. We see that overtime in China where the contracts tend to come in waves. And order activity in 2010, in China for instance, was lighter than 2009, but you know, the China market is just really absorbing the contracts that we’re recognizing as revenue right now. The demand, we believe is still very, very healthy. If we look to the other developing markets, what really gets us really excited about opportunities there is when you look at markets like India, for instance, we believe that those markets with new power generation capacity coming on, the need to develop that creates a very similar opportunity for us that we’ve seen in China over the past decade. And you know, we’re encouraged by the business we’re picking up in South America. We mentioned, you know, our second large contract there, in the Middle East, and we’re also encouraged with respect to South Africa and the fact that the SCOM has resolved the funding issues with respect to the project that are ongoing and are now beginning to talk about next generation projects. So the dynamics are very positive. The contracts tend to come in waves. Patrick O’Leary: As for South Africa, I mean, what we’re engaged on, we’ll be engaged on for the next couple of years. It’s really about 25% of what their new power need is. And so there clearly is additional demand that’s needed there. I think the question of timing is still a very big question. Bob Cornell – Barclays Capital: What’s percent of completion on the two big projects at this point? Patrick O’Leary: Two-hundred-and-some million [inaudible] revenue, which is about 100, so out of $800 million, we’ll have about 300 and some done by the end of this year. Bob Cornell – Barclays Capital: Okay, thanks.

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Thanks, Bob.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from Steve Tusa from JP Morgan. Please proceed, sir. Stephen Tusa – JP Morgan : Hey guys, sorry about that. I just, very quickly, just on the fourth quarter guidance, you know you haven’t changed your below-the-line expectations for the year so there’s no real change there. And they were actually a little bit higher than we were expecting this quarter, so a pretty high-quality operating result. So when I look at the fourth quarter, given you haven’t changed those below the line, it looks like those should be, you know, a bit of a tailwind, you know, relative to the model. That also – that being said, when I look at the thermal numbers or industrial margins for the fourth quarter, they just – for a business that’s usually seasonally okay, up in the fourth quarter, I’m just really struggling to see how we get to this EPS number. Is there something wrong in the business, did something take a step down? It doesn’t sound like it’s transformers. I’m just curious what’s going on. Patrick O’Leary: Sequentially, from Q3 to Q4, I mean, at the margin, the step down is really elevated restructuring in Q4 versus Q3. You know, we do have a decline in the higher margins by cooling revenue coming out of them. That segment is project driven. And then we had strong project execution in industrial in Q3 that you’re not seeing in Q4. But as I said, the margin there is really elevated restructuring of about $0.08 a share. You know if you look year on year, what we had was a $1.55 last year and we’re – you know, it really is the transformer pricing that I talked about and then project – lower level of dry cooling projects in the thermal segment. Below the line, Q4 to Q4, there is actually some headwind from pension and other income. Stephen Tusa – JP Morgan : Total revenue is down year over year? Organically? Patrick O’Leary: Yes. And it’s basically lower –

Chris Kearney

Chairman

It’s just the timing of the dry cooling project. Stephen Tusa – JP Morgan : Right. Okay. And then on the industrial margin, 7%, is that a good baseline that we’re using now? That’s the implied fourth quarter margin? Patrick O’Leary : It’s about 6 ½% in the numbers that we published this morning. Stephen Tusa – JP Morgan : Okay. All right, thanks a lot. Appreciate it.

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Your next questions come from Nigel Cole from Deutsche Bank. Please proceed. Nigel Cole – Deutsche Bank Securities: Thanks. Good morning, guys.

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Good morning, Nigel. Nigel Cole – Deutsche Bank Securities: Yeah, I just want to pick up from Steve on the industrial margins in 4Q. So 2.5%, I just want to understand the move between 3Q and 4Q. It sounds like you had a good mix of large project shipments in 3Q, along with a couple of others. And then 4Q is a better representation of current pricing. I’m actually wondering, 2.5%, is that a good baseline for first half of ’11? Patrick O’Leary : It’s a good baseline for Q1. Nigel Cole – Deutsche Bank Securities: Q1, okay. That’s good enough. And then looking at the full backlog, that was really encouraging. You may just talk about, I mean, you did address in some of your prepared remarks, you know, where you saw some strength, but maybe if you could just stick into the vertical some of the puts and takes of the major verticals?

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Yeah, sure Nigel. I think, you know, what’s encouraging about flow is that first of all we’ve seen three consecutive quarters of backlog build. And when you look at, you know, the year-over-year increase and the sequential increase, it I think, represents a significant shift in the trend in that business. And what’s encouraging is that in the early part of the year, we saw the components business starting to pick up and now across geographies that’s true. And while the systems business has lagged, we have picked up some nice orders, particularly in Europe. We mentioned those in the prepared remarks today and the quoting activity, the front-line activity we’re seeing in the system’s business is encouraging to us. And you know, the two acquisitions, Anhydro and Gerstenberg, the two most recent acquisitions that we’ve done have really fallen in nicely to the strategy and have contributed in a big way, particularly with respect to a couple of big systems orders that we did in Europe this year. Nigel Cole – Deutsche Bank Securities: Are there any major variances between verticals; food and beverage, oil and gas, chemical?

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Food and beverage has been particularly strong and that’s what driving much of the growth, that’s where we have focused a lot of our investment opportunity in terms of the acquisitions that we’ve done. Oil and gas has been slower this year and so – Patrick O’Leary : The industrial market placement has been strong and obviously we’re starting to work on the Westinghouse Power and Energy Project. We’re getting very positive customer reaction to the broadening of technology in the food and beverage market, which is opening up more bidding opportunities. Some opportunities that were too small for niche technologies on their own and where we were big enough to do them but we didn’t have the depth of the technology prior to Gerstenberg and Anhydro. So we’re actually, although we’re organically down on systems as we talked about on the call, we’re actually getting to the nice onies-twoies larger systems opportunities that we’re quoting on. And then the – in China, we have strong systems demand, but they’re not in the sort of 10 to 20 million range, they’re more in the 2 to 7-8 million range. But noticeably, noticeably strong. And then for components, really components are very strong in food and beverage and the industrial markets. As you gather from the call, the execution and the margin development is really strong in the call when you take the lower margin acquisitions out. So we’re pretty optimistic about the way that the future revenue is developing from the order strength, and I think you see that too across other competitors in the market in terms of a noticeable improvement in order development. Nigel Cole – Deutsche Bank Securities: And then a question on thermal outlook. You mentioned that SCOM to look at the next phases of the project. Can you maybe just put that in content of the $800 million of orders you won? What kind of science could this be and then put some comments on timing around that as well.

Chris Kearney

Chairman

It’s difficult to say, Nigel. As Patrick mentioned in response to a previous question, the projects we’re working on right now, which are two very large projects, you know, each one of them six times the normal size of a cold-fired plant. Those are massive projects that when completed will represent 25% of the goal. So there’s a long way to go, but that build out is expensive and it will be, I think, a mixture of power-generating sources; probably for the most part cold, but nuclear will be certainly an alternative. I think it will be interesting to see as we move into next year where SCOM is and what timing expectations are. I think the important thing for people to remember about our business is that, you know, we are very well positioned in the South African market. We’ve been there, as you know, for a long time. And you know, because of the local content and local BE partner requirements, I think we’re very well positioned to be a significant part of those projects going forward. Patrick O’Leary : And we’re very focused on power and energy in that market, but logically in the median term, it should also be a good market in the petrochemical industry and we would have some technology to offer there as well. So you know, for the power market, obviously, we’re selling three broad product lines; the tooling line, critical components, and then environmental management. So depending on the mix of that product mix and whether or not the next project in South Africa is nuclear would significantly impact what the revenue development is. But when you step back and just look at what their needs are, you know, they clearly are the early stages, as we said, about a quarter of the needs identified through the two projects that are underway. Nigel Cole – Deutsche Bank Securities: Great color. Thanks guys.

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Thanks, Nigel.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of John Inch, from Banc of American. Please proceed. John Inch [Alana] – BoA/Merrill Lynch : Hi. Good morning. It’s Alana on behalf of John. I wanted to dig a little deeper in terms thermal guidance. What kind of top-line growth are you [inaudible] for your personnel comfort hitting business in the fourth quarter? And can you remind us what percent of sales this business typically represents in the fourth quarter? Patrick O’Leary: It’s stable to last year in terms of the top line and the comfort rating. As you know, it is seasonal, a seasonable business. But the orders are slightly better than our expectations, particularly in the boiler business. John Inch [Alana] – BoA/Merrill Lynch : Okay. And then I just wanted to circle back to the industrial margins. You see sequential decline between third quarter and fourth quarter. Can you bridge the – let’s say the five-point drop, can you allocate that to the various business, how much is Waukesha versus some of the other smaller business? Is there any way to do that? Patrick O’Leary: Waukesha was basically flat quarter to quarter. And the change is really a larger project, particularly solar [inaudible] growers and high-end telecommunication equipment. John Inch [Alana] – BoA/Merrill Lynch : Okay. Thank you very much.

Operator

Operator

You next question comes from the line of Jeff Sprague from Vertical Research Finance. Please proceed. Jeff Sprague – Vertical Research Finance: Hi. Good morning, it’s Jeff Sprague.

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Hi, Jeff. Jeff Sprague – Vertical Research Finance: That’s a new one. Just a couple of questions on Thermal. How is kind of the price dynamic playing out there, you know, orders starting to pick up, but still a relatively slack environment. Just kind of the whole price-cost balance in that business currently? Patrick O’Leary: It terms of the execution of total margins, we’re actually really happy with it. We managed the input costs in different ways. Obviously, the amount of risk we take on each project varies and we deal with that contractually. At the time we bid contracts, we also build in some contingencies. If you look at the level of execution, it’s lumpy based on projects but we’ve been very much more disciplined in the project that we’re taking on and of the contract terms that we expect on those projects. So as you saw in Q3, we were sequentially up over 100 points from the Q2 execution and you know, we’re showing about 12% margins in Q4. So you know, the issue really here, Jeff, is this hiatus that we had for orders for particularly a couple quarters early this year. If you look at the book to build, it was noticeably stronger in Q3 than Q1 and Q2, still not coming to one, but coming close. And so there’s a decent list of opportunities for Q4, so we do expect the order trend to continue to be much better than it was in Q1 and Q2, and the issues that it will raise of us, as I mentioned on the call, is really just how the first half of next year pans out. But if you step back and look at the segment over four years, you know, particularly since Drew has been there, you…

Chris Kearney

Chairman

It’s actually – it’s been pretty consistent, Jeff, with what we’ve seen in the China market over the last couple of years. In fact, we described it broadly stable. The same is really true, I think in China. And actually, you know, with respect to some of the things that you’re reading about, the expansion of some of those larger EPCs going into different parts of the world, that actually presents some pretty good opportunities for us because we supply some of those customers and would like to supply those customers as they expand to different parts of the world, like India and Africa, and other places. So the competitive dynamic really hasn’t changed. It’s consistent. I think the lighter-order year that we’ve seen in China is just really reflecting a pause in the contract award activity. Our competitive position in that market really hasn’t changed. Patrick O’Leary : Yeah. We see a lot of interest in our niche technologies around heat exchange and pollution abatement. We’ve had a lot of interest from Korean EPCs as they expand out into the Middle East and elsewhere. And I think the same is going to be true for the larger Chinese EPCs as they look for providers of various components of the project. So I would describe the overall market as still competitive. But in terms of where our offering is, again, EPCs [inaudible], none of the large European EPCs offer cooling towers of the core technology. Jeff Sprague – Vertical Research Finance: And then just finally one just housekeeping item. Patrick, you’ve indicated taxes as a swinger positive or negative in Q4. Just give us a little more color on what might play out there. And then is tax kind of a wildcard for next year also or do you have…

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Thanks, Jeff.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Deane Dray of Citi Investments. Please proceed. Deane Dray – Citi Investments: Thank you. Good morning everyone. I was hoping Patrick could take us through some of the dynamics on the debt restructuring in terms of in particular what the assumed payback is on the early retirement charge and terminating the swaps? Patrick O’Leary : Sure. I mean, the – as a tax payer, obviously we get a tax deduction for our interest and at the time we look at managing interest pretty much depicts rates. The primary instigator for refinancing was the amount of pending debt we had coming due two years out, and the fact that rates prevailing in the market right now finally came within our target range. So that large payment isn’t, you know, I don’t look at that as a payback, but as simply, we had our existing barrier bill rates swapped in the [inaudible] and that was just an acceleration of the payments that we would have made under those swap agreements. Obviously because they’re related to underlying core debt, we don’t speculate in derivatives; having settled the underlying debt we settled the – Deane Dray – Citi Investments: How about the – I see gross leverage at 2.3 times, so in terms of – Patrick O’Leary: As you know, it’s above – it’s all above our target range, but the reality is that you know, with the prediction of a half a billion dollars of cash at year end, when you look at our overall leverage, it really is motive. The issue that we have is our, you know, our core facilities are priced below market and so in terms of paying – further paying debt down at these rates, it doesn’t really make a…

Chris Kearney

Chairman

Thanks, Deane.

Ryan Taylor

Management

Okay. Thanks, Deane. This is Ryan Taylor again. Thanks everybody that joined us today. We’ve reached our time limit so we need to conclude this call. I’ll be available in the office today; if you have any follow-up questions, feel free to give me a ring. We thank you for your time and we’ll talk to you again soon. Thanks.

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your participation in today’s conference. This concludes the presentation You may now disconnect. Have a great day.