Earnings Labs

Sonoco Products Company (SON)

Q3 2011 Earnings Call· Wed, Oct 19, 2011

$49.11

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good day, and welcome to the third quarter 2011 Sonoco Products Corporation earnings teleconference. My name is Caddis, and I'll be your coordinator for today. At this time all participants are in listen-only mode. After management’s remarks, we will conduct a Q&A session. (Operator instructions) I'd now like to turn the presentation over to you host for today’s conference, Vice President of Investor Relations, Mr. Roger Schrum. You may proceed sir.

Roger Schrum

Management

Thank you, Caddis. Good morning and welcome to Sonoco's third quarter investor call. This call is being conducted on October 19, 2011. Joining me today are Harris DeLoach, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Jack Sanders, President and Chief Operating Officer; and Barry Saunders, Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. The news release discussing the company’s third-quarter financial results was released after the market closed on Tuesday, October 18, and is available on our investor relations section of our website at sonoco.com. Let me begin by stating that today's call may contain a number of forward-looking statements that are based on current expectations, estimates, and projections. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and are subject to certain risks and uncertainties. Therefore, actual results may differ materially. Additional information about factors that could cause different results and information of the use by the company of non-GAAP financial measures is available in today’s news release and on the company's website. And with that, I'll turn it over to Barry Saunders.

Barry Saunders

President

Thank you Roger. After the close of the market yesterday, Sonoco reported that third quarter sales were $1.124 billion, up $72 million or 7% over last year’s third quarter. We reported GAAP earnings per diluted share or EPS of $0.76 per share and base EPS of $0.66 per share. The base EPS of $0.66 is $0.01 better than last year’s base EPS of $0.65, and within our guidance of $0.64 to $0.68. Let me first describe why our GAAP EPS was $0.10 higher than base EPS. The most significant item impacting this is the net $18 million reduction in tax expense, or $0.18 per share associated with the reduction in the valuation allowance against deferred tax assets. This was comprised of two separate events, the first being a 24 million release of valuation allowance against deferred tax assets in Europe. The deferred tax assets results from cumulative net operating loss carry forwards in one legal entity that had been fully reserved for through the valuation allowance due to the uncertainty of being able to use NOLs. However, due to improved operating results in that entity, we are comfortable that the NOLs will be usable, and thus have released the full reserve. Partially offsetting this is the increase in the valuation reserve by $5 million in Canada as a result of the decision to close a thermoforming plant. The business will be transitioned to other plants in the US to better leverage capacity and be closer to the customer base. But since this was the primary activity of this particular legal entity, we have to create a valuation reserve against the deferred tax assets that were on the book. Restructuring and asset impairment charges of 12 million pre-tax, or $0.07 per share after-tax is primarily related to the closure of a…

Operator

Operator

Thank you sir. (Operator instructions) Our first question will come from the line of George Staphos with Bank of America/Merrill Lynch. You may proceed. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Hi, everyone. Good morning. I wanted to dig into trends exiting the third quarter into the fourth quarter. given the pickup that you should be seeing from price cost in Tubes and Cores/Paper, yet with the reduction in guidance overall for the year, and I guess implied in the fourth quarter, does that suggest that the change that occurred in September, the deceleration of decline continued into October, and if you could, if that is true, or not for that matter, can you provide some color around the business as growing in October?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

George, I’m not sure that we can give you a lot of color on October at this point in time other than to say we continue to see the fluctuation that we have seen since probably the mid-second quarter, where we will see one week is up, the next week is down, and we have seen that pattern continue into October, one week up, one week down. I would say, that the guidance as Barry said, was based on the run rate that we were seeing in the third quarter, which obviously was exacerbated by a more significant decline in September than we had anticipated in the previous guidance. I think that Barry said while July was relatively weak, August was relatively strong, September was pretty weak. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: And so just to comment, in average to one week up, one week down, the best you can see October is flat with September?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

That is a fair statement. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Okay. I guess the second question would be Harris, when you speak with your customers about why they are doing that, obviously I guess to some degree, it speaks well of their view of Sonoco’s ability to meet them in the supply chain. I know it must wreck havoc to some degree with your own efficiency as you mentioned, but what is going on in terms of this saw tooth pattern we are seeing in terms of demand. You are not alone, we are seeing it in other sectors.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Right. I’m going to let Jack Sanders talk to that. Jack. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Hi Jack, how are you?

Jack Sanders

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Good George, how are you? George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Doing well.

Jack Sanders

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

You know, we have asked the question of our customers and I will tell you the answer that we get back is simply, we get orders when they get orders. So I think that we have getting [ph] the inventories up so much between the companies that, we are seeing an absolute pull through of demand, and that is the best explanation that we can get that has been consistent from several customers. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Okay. Two last ones and I will turn it over, one can you comment as to why you are able to take a couple of million dollars of income from the company of life insurance this quarter, was that planned, were there any special circumstances, and realizing it is not part of base earnings, can you comment as to what improved in Europe that allowed you to release these valuation allowance reserves that you had previously built up. That is maybe not, doesn’t help you now but it is certainly positive for the future. Thanks.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

George. Let me take both of those. The first thing as you incorrectly stated the company of life insurance was not in base earnings. It in fact was in base earnings. And the expense of the company on life insurance has been in base earnings since the program started back in… George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: I know that Harris. I was referring to the valuation allowance reserve, but keep going.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the company owned life insurance. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: No problem.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Well, we funded through company owned life insurance a lot of them, so of them [ph] and some of those items, and actually we had two former executives that passed away during the quarter. so I hope that doesn’t reoccur in the next quarter. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Understood.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

So that is the company on life insurance. Actually back in the I think the 90s, early part of this decade or last decade we put these reserves in on one of the European operations, and these NOLs really originated back with some acquisitions that we made in the 90s, and we weren’t giving the kind of returns the possibility of that business that we thought could guarantee those. So we reserved against them. The profitability of that business has improved fairly significantly over the last couple of years, and we felt we could take the reserves and obviously did. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Okay, thanks. I will turn it over.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Welcome. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Bill Gresh with JP Morgan. You may proceed.

Bill Gresh - JP Morgan

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Good morning.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Good morning Bill.

Bill Gresh - JP Morgan

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

So, a couple of questions. You know on the productivity side of things, you know you had talked earlier last quarter about kind of getting the numbers back up to the range you have been targeting, but it seems to continue to track more in like the second quarter. And it sounds like from the commentary some of these changes sounded a bit structural in terms of the kind of the way you are having to manage your business because of the customer order trends, so would you agree with that. And would you say that maybe in the near term we should be thinking something more along the lights of what you have been achieving in the past couple of quarters, and is that kind of what is embedded in your guidance at this stage?

Jack Sanders

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Yes, Bill. This is Jack. I certainly think that what we were saying was that in the first half of the year we had some issues around unusual events that were affecting productivity. In this quarter, we really didn’t see that. We saw productivity that was consistent with what we kind of tried to do in the past. We saw the projects that we were working through in the past come to as we have expected, and that is what we were really saying, productivity is back on target from that aspect. As you said, our order pattern is changing, and what we have been able to do in the past is that when we see an order pattern change, we would see a change for a extended period, where we lease labor, then begin. Recoup some of what would be negative productivity, but the volatility creates an inability to do that because we don’t really know what the next week is going to be weak or strong just yet. So we have to hold those labors, that labor and the other costs on a little longer. Is that a structural change, it is too soon for me to say that. It is certainly something we are dealing with now, and where we are looking at ways very aggressively to how do we deal with that assuming it continues for a while. but I am not certain it is a structural change just yet.

Bill Gresh - JP Morgan

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Okay. And then I guess just on the cost reduction measures that you talked about taking, is there a way to quantify how much you are taking at this stage, and would those be more temporary saves, or permanent measures?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

They would be more permanent measures, and I think it could be a bit premature to quantify that at this point. We will give you more color on that in December at the analyst meeting, and the impact on next year.

Bill Gresh - JP Morgan

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Okay. So it is not something we should think about for 4Q at this stage?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

I don’t think it will have an impact, Bill, being perfectly honest in the fourth quarter if it is it is baked into the guidance.

Bill Gresh - JP Morgan

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Okay, and just one more question on the guidance, the mix side of things it looks like probably the majority of that negative 12 million impact of volume mix I am assuming, and if that is the case, what are you assuming for next quarter, are you assuming that the trends continue in a similar way, or does that reverse itself?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

I think we can continue to feel that the mix will continue certainly in the fourth quarter. And I don’t know how much of that $12 million was mix and how much of it was volume. I would guess the bigger portion of it was volume itself.

Bill Gresh - JP Morgan

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Okay. So you are assuming that the mix…

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

I was thinking that you should think that the mix will continue.

Bill Gresh - JP Morgan

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Okay. all right. Thanks a lot.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Ghansham Panjabi with Baird. You may proceed. Ghansham Panjabi – Robert W. Baird & Co.: Hi guys. Good morning.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Baird

Good morning Ghansham. Ghansham Panjabi – Robert W. Baird & Co.: Hi, on the inter quarter commentary, September being the weakest, how would you parse that on a geographic basis, was Europe just as weak as North America in September, or was it weaker, how should we think about that?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Baird

Ghansham, I will just give you some numbers actually. Ghansham Panjabi – Robert W. Baird & Co.: Okay.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Baird

Tubes and Cores in North America was down as Barry said, I think slightly over 4%, Europe was down about 2%, South America was down about 8%, and Asia was up about 3%, which was down from – I guess up 3% year-over-year. Ghansham Panjabi – Robert W. Baird & Co.: And that was in September?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Baird

That was in September. No, excuse me. That was for the quarter. I would say and I don’t know that I have it all the way around in September, and North America was down around 8%, Europe was basically about 2% to flat. I guess Europe was flat year-over-year, and I really don’t know what South America and Asia were in September. Ghansham Panjabi – Robert W. Baird & Co.: Got it. That is helpful. And then on the consumer packaging business, it seems very, very strong in the face of very weak numbers for branded food volumes in the US, apart from flexible packaging, were there any specific areas where you picked up some market share maybe?

Jack Sanders

Analyst · Baird

Ghansham this is Jack. I think that we have picked up market share in both flexibles, and in molded plastics, blow molding. Ghansham Panjabi – Robert W. Baird & Co.: Okay. And Jack if you could just comment on new product activity at the customer level there?

Jack Sanders

Analyst · Baird

I can. We did have new product activity that was in line for our expectations for the quarter, and came in at about $35 million. we expect to see somewhere in that range of $150 million to $160 million this year for new products. And that is inclusive of the conversion of Maxwell house [ph] actually dropped off in the quarter. So, you know the program we have to continually roll this forward, and only keep it on two years, we continue to build new products and roll the others off into legacy products. So we were pleased. Ghansham Panjabi – Robert W. Baird & Co.: Okay, and just one final question maybe for Barry on the pension side for 2012, how should we think about just an early glimpse on expense and also cash contributions. Thank you very much.

Barry Saunders

President

Certainly. We are still in the process of putting our outlook for 2012 together, including pension expense. I really don’t have an update for you on that at this time. We certainly will be providing that update in the New York meeting as well. In terms of the pension obligation, we have published that each 25 basis point in the discount rate affects the obligation by roughly $30 million or so. And the discount rate at least at this time is down about 1% year-over-year. So again we have to get to the end of the year to know exactly where the discount rate ends up, and then look at the funded status to determine what if any funding might be required for next year. But again a little bit too early to predict that. Ghansham Panjabi – Robert W. Baird & Co.: Got it. Thanks so much.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Baird

Welcome.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Chip Dillon with Vertical Research Partners. Chip Dillon – Vertical Research Partners: Yes. Good morning.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Vertical Research Partners

Good morning Chip. Chip Dillon – Vertical Research Partners: You know, I know Harris, in the past you have mentioned that in 2007 somewhere around a third quarter, you noticed a pretty significant change in the Tubes and Cores business that obviously was in hindsight a terrific precursor to what was to come. And as you look at the September fall off in that business, does it feel like that or does it feel more like something less severe at this point?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Vertical Research Partners

You are referring to the May 2007 timeframe when we saw a downturn. I would say it was somewhat of that, but I think that, I don’t know what it means Chip [ph], and that is the reason it is calculated in our fourth-quarter guidance. But in early May we had seen – excuse me, early 2007 we had seen a continued up tick that had gone back for probably 12 to 18 months before that, and then we saw the precipitous fall off. What is different this time is I think we have seen this bouncing up and down for probably for 4 or 5 months, and this was a little more than – it was more than we had seen. So I wouldn’t read that this is an equivalent of 2007 at this point in time. But it is something obviously that we are watching. Chip Dillon – Vertical Research Partners: Right, and again the big difference being that you were up at such a lofty level like I presume you were at the end of ’06, at the beginning of ’07.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Vertical Research Partners

That is exactly correct. Chip Dillon – Vertical Research Partners: Okay. that is good color. And then on the recently announced Tegrant acquisition, and I don’t know you have said a little bit about that already, but when you look at that business, and you look at some of the other things you have done internally, do you see the potential to accelerate some of the new product flow, in other words are there products that Tegrant is working on, and what you all are working on that might allow you to accelerate that new product introduction goal that you have as a proportion of your growth going forward?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Vertical Research Partners

Absolutely, and I think what I do to you Chip, is let Jack talk about that because Jack is a protective packaging expert having grown up in that business.

Jack Sanders

Analyst · Vertical Research Partners

Chip, yes, let me kind of talk to that. I've got a couple of points to make there. Certainly there is half – that business is broken into third. Half of it is what we would call fits more alignment our protective packaging division fits very nicely. Some similar customers but it also expands us into other markets like electronics and also medical and diagnostic equipment. So that fits well with that particular business. I would also say another part of that business is component manufacturing. They're doing a lot of EPP expanded polypropylene for components in automobiles as well as in diagnostic and other medical and electronic equipment. So that business fits well with our protective packaging business. The thermo site business really is a form and medical business and we believe there is a – that's a strong opportunity for growth into itself but we also believe there is a strong link to our own flexibles business. We believe we'll be able to pull our flexibles into form and medical. They have an excellent reputation and we believe that's a strong positive for us, and then finally another third of that business it's actually 25%. The alloy business is retail security packaging. That's really aligned with our services business and we use some of their equipment today and some of their packaging today and some of the products that we package for our customers and some don't. So we believe we are going to be able to pull that along quite nicely through our packaging services business and vice versa. Some of the customers they have do a lot of promotion and we believe we may be able to pull backwards from their business side and our promotional business into their business. So definitely some strong links to our existing business and an ability to accelerate the growth for that business in general.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Vertical Research Partners

And so the answer being we think there is a good great possibility for new product introductions in that business and pulling into ours as well. Chip Dillon – Vertical Research Partners: And could there be some sort of change in the long run growth rate that you all typically give us when we meet in December that would incorporate not to jump the gun but I would imagine that could be a positive factor in terms of how you look at you know, the next five years you know, when we meet in New York.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Vertical Research Partners

We certainly think it is a positive and we will give you a lot of color in New York on Tegrant and moving forward with that. Chip Dillon – Vertical Research Partners: Terrific. Thank you very much.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Vertical Research Partners

Thank you Chip.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Philip Ng with Jefferies & Company. Philip Ng - Jefferies & Company: Good morning guys. I just had a quick question on your recent acquisition. How are trends shaking out in that business, at least a part of it would be a little bit more cyclical in nature, so I just want to get a sense.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Yes.

Jack Sanders

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

The question. The cyclicality of the Tegrant business. Well we certainly think that the protective packaging piece of it again you have to break it to its three components is sharply aligned with our protective packaging business although the component piece of that might not be but the trends for the medical and diagnostic as well as the alloy are much different than the trends in the protective packaging piece. That medical and diagnostic piece is a very strong, very strong growth going forward and then the alloy piece is more consumer like. Philip Ng - Jefferies & Company: Okay, that's helpful. And if I look at your presentation, you know, few weeks back you know, there seems to be you know, handful of new customers. Is there going to be an opportunity for you to some cross-selling where you are going to be able to sell some of your Sonoco legacy products into those new customers.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Yes, there is Phil. I think that that said thermo safe is going to pull, we believe Thermo safe will pull us into medical and forma and should pull flexibles in with it. So we believe we will be able to do more bundling inside that business once we get established, and when you look at alloy business that's retail security packaging primarily. That's functionally what we do today inside our services business. We use some of their equipment and some of their products. Sometimes we don't so we will be able to again move that product on a greater basis using our services business and vice versa. Some of their customers use services and don't deal with us today. So we think there is a solid opportunity there. Philip Ng - Jefferies & Company: Okay, and then switching gears a little bit on your flexible packaging business it seems like you've done a pretty good job taking share as well some of your other plastic business, you know, what are you doing there is it just more new technology or just leveraging your existing relationships with your big customers.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Both Phil is the answer to that. Certainly our corporate customer program continues to gain strength and we continue to get opportunities working not only in corporate customers and others, but primarily corporate customers are bringing a lot of opportunity. In addition you know, our flexible business really is technology-based. We're using some of our proprietary laser scoring and precision die coding in new applications that's bringing new business, one being the (inaudible) application that we recently won. That was a technology-base and that's the way we go to market inside that flexible organization. Philip Ng - Jefferies & Company: Okay, and just lastly do you have a sense of how template price is going to shake out next year just because first half this year it’s been a headwind if template would decline or flatten. I would imagine we get a nice little margin expansion opportunity in the first half of next year.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

I think we just – that's all wait and see. We will give you more color on that as well. Philip Ng - Jefferies & Company: Okay, thanks guys.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Jefferies & Company

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Alex Ovshey with Goldman Sachs. You may proceed.

Alex Ovshey - Goldman Sachs

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. You may proceed

Good morning.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. You may proceed

Good morning Alex. How are you?

Alex Ovshey - Goldman Sachs

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. You may proceed

I'm doing well, thanks. I wanted to ask you guys on the (inaudible) acquisition and how that's fitting into the business and that you are quite excited about that CPAD [ph] technology and being able to penetrate new markets that you weren’t in before. So wanted to just get an update on how that acquisition is fitting in.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. You may proceed

Alex, I think the acquisition is fitting in well if you recall we said that obviously we like the position they had in the CPAD, the dual level trays. And that market is not growing a lot but it is doing about what we expected it to do. We also, one of the reasons for buying it was the fact that they had certain thermoforming technology that we could mirror with some of the thermoforming technology that we have, and I think that's going along reasonably well and we're working on some products that hopefully will be introduced fairly shortly. There are some shelf stable type products and some steamer type products that we will be able to share with you fairly quickly, but it's going along nicely. Thank you.

Alex Ovshey - Goldman Sachs

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. You may proceed

I appreciate that color Harris. I wanted to ask a question on the price cost spread in the industrials part of the business where there is not a pass-through mechanism. So on the open market kind of just looking at the third party trade publications, it doesn't look like your B prices have changed much throughout the year. How are you guys seeing that price cost spread on the open market tonnage within the industry.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. You may proceed

We've gotten price increases and we're satisfied with where we are. We could be better but we're not totally, we're not dissatisfied with that.

Alex Ovshey - Goldman Sachs

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. You may proceed

Okay, thanks Harris.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Goldman Sachs. You may proceed

You're welcome Alex.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Chris Manuel with Wells Fargo. You may proceed.

Chris Manuel - Wells Fargo

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

Good morning gentlemen.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

Good morning Chris. How are you?

Chris Manuel - Wells Fargo

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

Terrific, thank you. Just –

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

Good to hear from you again.

Chris Manuel - Wells Fargo

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

Well, thank you much. Just a couple of quick questions I wanted to ask. One, and I jumped on a few minutes late so if I've missed this I apologize, but SG&A was down you know, quite sharply in the quarter and I just wondered if there was anything unusual embedded within there. What's a reasonable run rate to expect going forward.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

Chris, we are – well unfortunately there was some reduced management incentive bonuses in there because we're not hitting the targets that we had set for ourselves for the year which is a piece of it, but we've been controlling cost I think extremely well in the company. The last thing and you might not have heard it, there was some company owned life insurance that was in that S&A figure that won't repeat itself going forward and that was about $2 million. So that was probably the biggest piece of it.

Chris Manuel - Wells Fargo

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

Okay. The next question I had was you know, as you look at the demand patterns that have been very, very choppy, really just as a phenomenon that's persisted since you know, 2008 or even preceded that a bit. I know in many ways you go to market and price your products and put structures in place to ensure certain returns. At what point do you have to take a step back and possibly rethink some pricing strategies to incorporate more volatility. In other words structurally improve margins. Is this something you think that will persist longer-term that may cause you to rethink how you extrapolate value from the market?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

Okay. First of all I wouldn't say that we've seen choppy order patterns going back that far. I would say primarily the choppy order patterns are more in the Tubes and Cores side than we've seen any place else. And that really has been a phenomenon that is probably six or eight months old Chris rather than dating back as far as you say. As Jack said earlier this is week to week, this is not the month, and we're looking at what are some of the mitigating things we can do to alleviate that. One is to frankly build some inventories that has an impact on working capital, but we are looking at what's the cash impact of that versus the earnings we get from efficiency, and over the past four or five years we've done a phenomenal job I think at the company of driving down our days of working capital, and to a point where I think Jack said earlier, you know, we get orders when the customers get orders, and then I'm getting orders in a steady pattern that they normally get and having said we know what the historical order patterns on an annual basis are for most of these customers. You know, we may have to do a little more earning to inventories to alleviate some of that problem and if that doesn't solve it then we will look at the pricing structure as well.

Chris Manuel - Wells Fargo

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

Okay, that's helpful. When you're talking about some of the opportunities to pull some of your flexible business into medical opportunities, can you maybe expand upon that a little. When I think that some of the medical opportunities those require some pretty significant technology while some are, I won’t say more mundane but you could probably use some of the same stuff you use so effectively in confectionery snack. Could you maybe give us an example or two of target market or an opportunity you might see there on the flexible side moving into medical?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

You know, I would say it's a little early for us to really be specific about that and we would plan to give you, you know, more color on that December, but it is suffice to say that they have a number of customers that we share, and we know that the relationship with those customers we can pull over into the medical and pharma side of those customers where we probably could not have before, and we see a lot of their, a number of their customers, not a lot, a number of their customers that we are not suppliers to today. And I would say the reaction at least early on of this acquisition from the pharma side is being quite enthusiastic that Tegrant is getting a broad-based packaging company with good financial strength that can follow these customers around the world. So we're working that pretty hard right now and we will give you some color on that in December.

Chris Manuel - Wells Fargo

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

Okay, do you see opportunities there as well for you know, things that we might see show up on pharmacy shelves in terms of blister packs and other protective packaging that way, or is that getting the cart in front of the horse as well.

Jack Sanders

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

Well, Chris, this is Jack. We have to get all that finalized, but yes we do see opportunities in some of that. As a matter of fact they do sell today into some of their blister packs into over-the-counter pharmacy and that type of things, and you ask about packaging or you asked about the application of film or flexibles, certainly big bags, pouches and some of the face change material is laminated inside flexible packaging. So those are the types of opportunities we see immediately. Long-term, we would like to do something even more of significant medical. So this could be the opening we were looking for.

Chris Manuel - Wells Fargo

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

Okay, thank you.

Jack Sanders

Analyst · Wells Fargo. You may proceed

You're welcome.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Bill Selesky with Argus Research. You may proceed.

William Selesky - Argus Research

Analyst · Argus Research. You may proceed

Thanks guys. Good morning and thanks for taking my call.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Argus Research. You may proceed

Hi Bill.

Jack Sanders

Analyst · Argus Research. You may proceed

Hi Bill.

William Selesky - Argus Research

Analyst · Argus Research. You may proceed

I just got – actually most of my questions have been answered but I just had one question with reference to repricing on contracts. You know, a couple of quarters ago it had been a slight issue and I just wanted to see going forward you know, kind of where you stand on that?

Jack Sanders

Analyst · Argus Research. You may proceed

Yes, Bill, this is Jack. The OCC issue is a reset. We had a reset in the second quarter or for the third quarter that began at 150 and OCC went up to 175 during the quarter. For the fourth quarter it's the opposite of that. It reset at 175. It is now dropped to 160 and quite frankly we would expect some further drops of significance to follow. So it will be somewhat reversed on the Tubes and Cores/Paper side.

William Selesky - Argus Research

Analyst · Argus Research. You may proceed

Okay, then in general typically how often are contracts reset as far as pricing goes?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Argus Research. You may proceed

Typically on a quarterly basis we have some on the consumer side that are shorter in duration, but on the industrial side the bulk are done quarter-to-quarter, and depending on where the point locks and changes after that that will determine those ups and downs in price cost.

William Selesky - Argus Research

Analyst · Argus Research. You may proceed

Okay, great. That is all I have. Thanks.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · Argus Research. You may proceed

Thank you Bill.

Jack Sanders

Analyst · Argus Research. You may proceed

Thanks Bill.

Operator

Operator

We have a follow up question from the line of George Staphos with Bank of America/Merrill Lynch. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Thanks. Hi guys. First within consumer packaging, is it possible to discuss directionally, which of the businesses were up in profits year-on-year, which if any were down in profit dollars year-on-year, in particular I was interested in what the flexible percentage margin change might have been when we look year-on-year directionally?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

George, I don’t have that in front of me. Bear with me a second. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Let me rephrase the question, where there any businesses that were down that you can think of that were meaningful in consumer year-on-year obviously you had a pretty good quarter in consumer from a volume standpoint?

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

I would say, across-the-board George the performance was pretty good of all the flexible business, not anything really notable. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Okay. Now are flexible margins, let me ask a question there, are flexible margins getting to double digits this year or in any of the next couple of quarters you can look out to.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

They are not a double-digit at this point in time. There are continuing to move up. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Okay. You mentioned I think in answering Chris’ question, this was Jack talking about opportunities in blister packs and bread bags. And maybe triangulating here a little bit, but historically these have not been the world’s most lucrative margin businesses, at least from our research. Would you expect that Tegrant technology that you would be able to employ here would actually margin up your flexible business?

Jack Sanders

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

I don’t think he said (inaudible). I said brick packs, which is something inside the box. Again they have faced changed materials we have seen using that early, what I did say was that longer term, yes, flexibles is a very good market for – medical is a very good market for flexibles. And it is a market we have our eye on, that is a difficult market to qualify for. It is not easily entered, but we have an excellent start, and an excellent position with this acquisition. So certainly it is on our radar screen. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Jack, what about on blisters?

Jack Sanders

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Blisters, they are already selling blisters into the retail pharma market today and again we are continuing to expand into that market. that is a target market for them as well. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Would that be an up margin market for you in flexible, or would that be kind of consistent with what you are getting already?

Jack Sanders

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

George, I really don’t have that type of information just yet. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Okay. Last question and I will turn it over, if we look at Tubes and Cores/Paper and I realize there is seasonality at work here, but if we adjust for seasonality the best that you can, would you say that the current run rate that you are at is the lowest over the course of the year that you have experienced. What I am trying to think about is how you look at 2012 on the trajectory you may or may not have. Thanks and good luck on the quarter guys.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

I don’t. Go ahead.

Jack Sanders

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Well, George, this is Jack. It is hard – the way we projected it is kind of just more of the same. We projected that volatility going forward. It is not significant changes one way or the other.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

I will say, what we’re not seeing is a normal seasonality that we would have expected in the beginning of the third quarter, I mean the fourth quarter in carrying out, and we normally see an up tick in the September time frame. We have not seen it. In fact it went the other direction, and we haven’t seen that. So you obviously can say it is declining, but it has been basically flat for the year until September George. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Right, and I guess also if you are not seeing the normal seasonality, that could mean that you wind up with a bump in demand at some point when you least expect it, which would take the trajectory back up. So…

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

That is a fair assumption. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: Okay. Well, anyway again guys good luck in the quarter. thanks for the details.

Harris DeLoach

Analyst · JP Morgan. You may proceed

Thanks George. George Staphos – Bank of America/Merrill Lynch: See you in December.

Operator

Operator

I show no further questions in queue. I will turn it back to you for closing remarks.

Roger Schrum

Management

Thank you again Caddis. Sonoco will be conducting its annual analyst meeting for the financial community in New York on Friday, December 2, 2011 at the Grand Hyatt Hotel. Breakfast will begin at 7:30 AM Eastern Time in the Manhattan ballroom on the lobby level of the hotel, and the presentation will start at about 8 AM. The meeting should conclude about 9:30 depending upon your questions. The company will provide an overview of its strategy and expects to provide guidance for 2012. Members of the company’s executive committee will be attending, and will be available for discussion. Electronic invitations are being mailed today, e-mailed today to interested participants. Those interested in attending should e-mail their name, their company they represent and if they will be attending in person to corporate.communications@sonoco.com. Those who cannot attend in person can join the meeting via telephone conference call or web cast. The web cast and presentation will be made available at sonoco.com under the investor relations tab. Let me again thank you all for joining us today. We appreciate your interest in the company, and as always if you have further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us. Thank you again.

Operator

Operator

Thank you sir, and thank you for your participation in today’s conference. You may now disconnect. Have a great day.