Good morning, and welcome to the Smith & Nephew Q4 and full year 2024 Results Presentation. I'm Deepak Nath, I'm the Chief Executive Officer; and joining me is our Chief Financial Officer, John Rogers. Looking at our full year numbers, I'm pleased to be able to report that the 12-Point Plan is delivering financial outcomes. Our operational and commercial actions have combined with the high cadence of innovation to produce consistently higher growth than in the past. Margin expansion is beginning to follow, driven by both operating leverage and productivity improvements, which are becoming more visible as macro headwinds ease. Better working capital discipline and asset utilization also means that our profitability is coming with higher cash generation. Overall for 2024, we delivered 60 bps of margin expansion, 95% cash conversion, which is ahead of our target and higher ROIC 1.4%. The fourth quarter was a good finish to the year with 8.3% underlying growth. Volumes were solid across most regions and the company is now set up operationally and commercially to benefit from better demand as we saw at the end of the quarter. But also meant we realized more of a benefit to our surgical businesses from the two extra trading days that we expected to see during the holiday season. Importantly this growth did not depend on improvement in China, which increased as a headwind just as we indicated with our Q3 trading update. Overall, China cost 280 basis points of group growth in Q4. We're now poised to deliver a further step-up in returns in 2025. Our outlook is unchanged. We expect revenue growth of around 5% and significant trading margin expansion to between 19% and 20%. This will come from continued operating leverage and as the cost savings from the optimization of our manufacturing network…

Thank you, Deepak. So coming to the full year 2024 financials. Full year revenue was $5.8 billion up 5.3% versus 2023 on an underlying basis and up 4.7% on a reported basis. Note that excluding the headwinds from China, growth would have been plus 6.7% on an underlying basis. Performance was broad-based with all three reporting segments contributing significantly to the overall group. As you can see in the chart, Orthopedics grew 4.3%, Sports Medicine and ENT grew 6.2%, although again excluding China, growth would have been 10% and AWM grew 5.1%. We beat our revised Q3 expectations for the full year as a result of a very strong December where we had somewhat discounted the benefit of the two extra trading days, which turned out to be good across our surgical businesses. We set out the challenges in the Chinese market for both our Orthopedics and Sports businesses at our Q3 trading statement. And the Q4 China performance was in line with these expectations. Overall, a good set of growth figures and particularly good to see that more than 60% of our growth is drawn from products launched in the last five years as covered by DPAC. This gives us a degree of confidence coming into 2025. Looking at the trading P&L. Gross profit was $4.09 billion with a gross margin of 70.3%, which is 40 basis points below 2023. The gross margin pressure came in the second half of the year as we began to see the price impact of joint repair BBP in China. Trading profit was $1.05 billion, up 8.2% year-on-year. Half one trading margin expansion was 140 basis points and the half two margin went back 20 basis points due to the China headwinds, resulting in 60 basis points of trading margin expansion for the…

Thank you, John. So I'm encouraged by how we're positioned coming out of 2024. It's good to deliver on both growth and margin. But what's most encouraging is to see the 12-Point Plan benefits more visibly coming to fruition. We started out with a comprehensive program of actions, which first showed improvement in operational KPIs and is now delivering an inflection across the full range of financial outcomes. We know that there is still much more to do, but we are well-positioned for a key year of delivery in 2025. On revenue, we're continuing to improve in US Recon. We're delivering successive waves of innovation and we're demonstrating our ability to turn that into a level of growth that can drive natural leverage. We've also taken broad action on our cost base with the result that there's a step-up in savings across manufacturing and operating expenses poised to flow through to our P&L in 2025. So I look forward to updating you through the year as we move towards our goals. But I'd like to finish today on a personal note. As you may know Phil Cowdy has recently announced that he will retire later this year. Phil came to Smith & Nephew 17 years ago. He had more hair then and has been a pillar of the company across a number of roles. Most recently, he served as a Chief Corporate Development and Corporate Affairs Officer. And for me, he has been an invaluable source of support and advice in my time as CEO. I'm sure you'll join me in wishing him all the best for retirement. Phil, thank you very much, for all your tremendous contributions to the company over 17 years. And now, we can move on to questions. Jack?

Hi there. Thanks for taking the questions. Jack Reynolds-Clark from RBC. I have 3 please. First, on China. So, what gives you the confidence that orthopedics is going to recover towards the end of Q1, kind of how much visibility do you have into or on end market demand? And also on China, within sports, are you seeing kind of volumes tick up as you had previously expected? Second question was just on US hips and knees. So, could you just remind us at this point kind of what gives you confidence that the geography will kind of now grow in line with the market come the end of 2025? Just give a bit of confidence there. Then the final question is on R&D. So obviously, you said that R&D would tick up -- and I think there's been a bit of kind of nervousness that R&D is being used perhaps to kind of manage margins. Could you just kind of give us a bit of confidence again that that is not the case or it won't be the case in 2025?

Thanks for the question, Jack. So first, with China, we had indicated in Q3 that we had seen a softening in end user demand. So there's -- in China just to remind you, there is a tender business and then there's an off-tender business. It's the same price, but you've got committed volumes in the tender business and free float in terms of volumes in the off-tender business. What we have seen is softening of demand in that off-tender business. So, ordering it stopped because the inventories are built up in the channel. And as I indicated, we're seeing inventories come down, but we expect in Q1 that some of that to continue and to recalibrate. And so, as we commented Q4 of '24 played out as we had indicated that it would. And nothing that we've seen so far indicates that Q1 will be any different. So Q1 should be the low watermark in terms of inventories coming down to equilibrate. From there on out, it will be our ability to service the market. And I'll remind you that we've got committed volumes for tenders at a price that we know. So that's how we expect the recon part to play out. With sports, in the first half of the year, it will be essentially the sports VBP on joint repair playing through and then in the second half of the year, that we will have lapped that. What will come concomitantly is VBP for AET that we expect to kick into gear in the second half of the year. As with the joint repair and as with orthopedics there will be adjustments in the channel as we lead up to that. So putting all these effects together, we feel confident in a, having pegged how that's going to play out, having been shaped by the experiences over the last few years. And our guidance actually contemplates the combination of these two effects. So that's China. Do you have anything to add, John?

I was just going to say just in terms of the actual numbers that we've got assumed in our budget for 2025 for China. The first half on Orthopedics, we are predicting it's going to be down sort of 60% to 70% 75%. So, we're fully baking in the experience that we saw through at the end of 2024. And we do expect to see some of that recovery come through in the second half. So, I think we're being very sensible about the numbers we're using. On Sports Medicine, again, we're reflecting the Q3, Q4 performance of 2024 coming through into 2025. So, the first half will be down almost 50% against our budget. So, I think we've been sensible using the history that we've seen in the second half of 2024 to build that into our forecast for 2025 and that's fully baked into our guidance for the full year.

So, your second question about U.S. hips and knees. The confidence comes from us having executed multiple elements of our transformation program over the last couple of years. The first is improving supply, which is a substrate to this whole thing. As I've commented on previous calls, U.S.-specific SKUs were the last to recover. We didn't plan it that way, but this is how things unfolded. Hips recovered before knees did from a supply standpoint. But as we commented in 2024, we're now back to our target levels. So, that's the first part. Secondly, concomitantly, we've been improving our commercial execution just multiple facets to that. It's leadership. It's our organization our selling organization. We've made some improvements in how we're set up, how we performance manage, and also the process to be used for performance management in Orthopedics. We're just fine on the other parts where we had improvements to make in those areas. All of those we've been driving at. The upshot of it is as I look at customer churn through 2023 and 2024, the story was we lost more customers than we gained. Now, as we exited 2024 that balance is now in favor of us winning more customers than we've lost. And that gives us a more stable account base as we've reduced churn. And on the back of a portfolio that we still have work to do to add to that portfolio, but we've got a portfolio and a strategy for commercializing our portfolio that I feel good about. CATALYSTEM be a great growth driver because we are now able to fully participate in the direct anterior approach, which is the high-growth part of hips. We've got Cori now that's got tremendous functionality, truly setting the standard in terms of robotics for knees and there's more to come in hips. So, look at the growth drivers from a product standpoint, the improvements we've made to commercial execution and supply is a substrate, all of those translate into confidence that I feel that we're going to continue this improvement trajectory that you clearly see that we've laid out. So, that’s the U.S. question.

And maybe just sort of again just to build on the numbers there. So, as Deepak's chart showed at the end of the year, we were exiting at circa 2% ADS growth. We will deliver sort of slightly ahead of that in Q1 not much though, but then we'll see that grow to 3% to 4% by the end of the year and therefore in line with the market, which is consistently with what we said now for the last 12 months or so that we expect to get to market growth by the end of 2025.

Regarding R&D, as I've commented multiple times including today, innovation is a key part of our growth story. We've called out that 60% of our growth revenue grade came from new products. That's on top of nearly 50% in 2023 where revenue growth came from new products. So, this is an important part of what we do. I wanted to make our margin number by cutting R&D, we have done that two years ago, right? So that is not a lever, we're looking at. But when you look at year-on-year comparisons, of course, R&D looks down. The primary part of that, is onetime effects. And those were related to some productivity measures that we took, and actually EU MDR that was obviously, a onetime thing that rolled off into 2024. We haven't cut any programs, in fact, added programs, despite the margin pressure that we feel. So all of the shoulder programs on CORI that was added on top of when we started the 12-point plan program. Rounding out the portfolio of shoulder, while we had aspirations for that. What we've actually done is accelerated our implant program. And on the knee side, we've actually accelerated some programs within that, as we look to make our portfolio more competitive. So in terms of the substance of what we're looking to do in R&D, which is the programs, I feel very good about the level of funding that we've got and really the level of innovation that's gone into those programs. And you can see the track record, you can measure that in terms of revenue growth contribution, we can look at it in terms of number of products launch. You can look at it in terms of the number of, first in terms of category creating products we've brought to bear. All of those tell the story of innovation. We're a med tech business. Innovation is key to us, and we do punch above our rate class. So, that's the reassurance that I hope, I can provide around R&D. And then the 4% reduction year-on-year in R&D, is just a natural consequence of where the spend occurs within our R&D program. It isn't coming from cutting programs, but it's as we go through different milestones, the spend level tends to vary. So, we aren't backing into the R&D number based on the margin target, but rather driven by what we think, we need in terms of programs to be successful.

And also when you look at the margin accretion, for the year the 60 basis points, we get 60 basis points of improvement coming through from our improved SG&A spend. So, one would argue that the key leverage here is the cost savings that we've delivered coming through, providing that margin accretion and we'll see more of that of course in 2025. So, it's not R&D, it's the SG&A reduction that's driving our margin expansion.

Thanks a lot. Q – Unidentified Analyst: This is Estelle Pang [ph] from Bernstein. I'm asking the question on behalf of Lisa Clive. So the first one is, can you discuss your effort to reduce SKUs in hips and knees, is a significant reduction required to get orthopedics to structurally higher mid- to high teens EBIT margin or perhaps, another way of saying it, how much is your large number of platforms in both hips and knees, contributing to the low margin profile of the recon business. And then the second question related to margins. So, most of your margin improvement is clearly coming from Orthopedic. Can you give us a bridge, in terms of rough proportion of uplift in this division, that will be coming from a reduction in COGS, operating leverage or any particular areas of cost savings. And the – sorry, and the last one. Could you discuss the competitive dynamics in the Chinese market, specifically your Chinese recon business? So after the large decline in Q3 and Q4, have you lost shares in the market, especially to local players? And have you seen like the buy local campaign, the trend is notably like accelerated? Or is just an aberration? Thank you.

Thanks for the questions. So I'll take the first and the third one. I'll have John address the second part. So I'll take those first, first and third. In terms of SKU reduction, that is an element of our plan. And actually it was one of the items of the 12-Point Plan, where we have actually over the last few years significantly reduced the amount of SKUs. And those are primarily in Asia and certain emerging markets, we've seen the benefit of those, right? In terms of platforms that's a much trickier bit to execute, because you've got a customer account base that you've got to protect and it's not always easy to transition from one platform to the other. The good news here is we've already made good progress, it's important over the longer-term. But in order to achieve where we need to get to in 2025 and 2026 and 2027, it's not the biggest lever that will get us there. Does it afford challenges for us from a scale efficiency standpoint? Yes, it does. But in the end, we've got other levers that we are pulling in order to deliver the margin expansion. So that's a short answer to the story. Good progress has delivered what we expect to deliver going forward. It's a part of the plan that's not the biggest part of the plan in terms of margin expansion. On the third part in China, you asked about Recon, but this is a little bit also in sports. We have lost share. Part of what we see the government doing is in addition to addressing the cost base or healthcare spend or VBP is a vehicle for controlling that. There's clearly a push to support local manufacturers, right? And so we should expect that some of them will step in and start to play a bigger role in the market. And we have seen that come through. And largely our Recon business or some of the volume impact that we've talked about in the past really comes from local players being more competitive in that free float segment that I talked about earlier in Recon. So it is true that that is a bigger factor we're losing share. In sports, it's maybe the effect is not quite as pronounced, but it is the same dynamic nonetheless. So there's a price impact and we expect local players to come in and step into that. Have we under called that a bit in sports? Yes, we had. But we've been shaped by the experience of particularly as we discussed in Q3. So that's the third question. John you want to take the second question of the margin.

Yes. So on margin expansion by business unit just to contextualize Obviously, we outturned 24%, or 11.5% on margin for our Orthopedics business, 24% for Sports and 23.7% for wound. Now we will expect both wound and sports to accrete by 50 basis points plus, so we will expect to see margin expansion come through there, but clearly starting at a fairly high level that will be more muted. However, in our Orthopedics business, we will expect at least a step-up of 200 bps from 11.5% so least 13.5% hopefully getting towards 14%. The key drivers behind that are twofold. The first of which is obviously operational leverage coming through growing our top line and recovery in our U.S. Orthopedics business, as we've already talked about. And the second one which, of course, is a big chunk of that will also come from savings particularly the closure of the four manufacturing units that support that business and the benefits that those savings coming through in the second half of the year. So, two big levers on orthopedics to deliver that 200 margin -- 200 bps of margin expansion operational leverage and manufacturing cost savings.

Good morning. Robert Davies from Morgan Stanley. Two questions. One was just on the headcount reduction. It's obviously been quite a notable sort of step down. I noticed your one-off costs were not quite so big in 2025 is $24 million. Just maybe give us a bit of context on where you are in the headcount reduction program. What's left? Where are those people actually coming out of? And then the second one was just around potential tariff risks across different parts of your business. Perhaps you could give us a little color on that.

On headcount so most of the headcount reduction comes from the factory closures, which is part of the network optimization efforts. That's almost all in orthopedics where we had more capacity than we needed. But as part of the broader cost savings programs we've actually gone after efficiencies right across the group so significant in SG&A. Initially it was as we transitioned into the business unit model that was back in 2023. But there's actually significant SG&A-related headcount savings as well. And so -- and then in 2024 you noted the step-up in reduction if you will. We had to make some difficult decisions there. We've actually pulled forward some of the things we had planned for 20 into 20 as we grappled with the additional headwinds. So relative to where we started the 12-point plan inflation has been higher for longer and VBP impact in Sports which we didn't have at the time we announced the program and not only in joint repair now coming into AET has meant we've had to go deeper than we originally set out to do in the 12-point plan. The zero-based budgeting approach was one of the vehicles we used to get there. But we've largely done the big bulk of what we set out to do 2025 is the year when the benefits of those actions will flow through into the P&L. So that's the head count both in terms of where it is and how are we thinking about this phasing or sequence of it. In terms of tariffs obviously the headline is it's a dynamic picture, right? It's hard to know how things will actually settle out. When you look at what's been announced so far this is primarily on China that is within the realm of what we had contemplated and within the realm of what we I also remind you that tariffs in China is not a new thing. We've had to navigate that also in the past administration. The topic of reciprocal tariffs and the impact of that at this point it's hard to know how that's actually going to play out. The headline for us is we've got a team looking at it. In terms of the US, the largest proportion of our US business is served through manufacturing plants in the U.S. So we are reasonably well covered there. But where we expect the impact to directly answer your question would be primarily in our Wound business where we've got a significant presence in China in terms of manufacturing. But having said that all of our scenario analysis we've done leads us to believe within the realm of the impact will be the realm of what we expect. But the headline again is as dynamic and hard to know how it's going to play out exactly.

And just to build for a second on Deepak's comments on the headcount. So we're not sort of planning any major sort of headcount reduction plans in 2025 per se. That said this whole philosophy of ZBB that we've embedded in 2024 we want to make sure it becomes in our DNA and our way of working. And so as we set our budgets for the 2026 year will be -- we're always, always looking for opportunity to make ourselves more efficient. And there are still opportunities I believe in the business where we can drive efficiency through but it will be done through incremental continuous improvement as opposed to maybe step change one-off programs that we've done in 2024.

Hi, Seb Jantet with Panmure Liberum. Two questions, if I can. Just first of all, I just want to talk about pricing a little bit. And just want to get a sense of what you've baked into your kind of forecast for pricing in some of the major markets kind of obviously BBP aside. And then secondly, in terms of guidance, you've given yourself quite a big window to drive through for this year. So I'm kind of wondering kind of what are the levers that might leave you at the kind of the bottom end or top end of that? Is it a revenue outperformance story is that cautious guidance on cost savings? Just trying to get a handle on kind of on where we are on that.

Yeah. In terms of pricing, historically, we're kind of a 1% to 2% price erosion type of company. And it's a very fairly typical in the med tech sector. Over the last couple of years, we've been doing better than that. We've been flat to maybe 1% -- a little over 1%. And that's largely because we've been able to pass through are inflation-related cost increases into -- to our customers. And as you know in med tech, historically, it's not something that you can easily do. What I've commented in the past is we don't expect that to continue out into the future. So our long-term plan basically takes into account going back to normal levels of price erosion, which is around one to two -- we're not going to get there all in one year. We already saw the 2024 was worse I should use my objective currently. It was closer to normal than 2023 was we expect 2025 to be even closer to normal than that, but not quite at roll, right? So that's the way to think about process. There's a dynamics in terms of -- within orthopedics, how the mix shift from hospital into ASCs, and so forth and how that plays out. But generally speaking, our long-term plan is based on going back to normal price levels. Before I get to the second question, you want to chime in John?

Yeah. Just to give you a little bit of color on that. So 2024 pricing was roughly -- if the group level was up around 1.5% or so. And if you stripped out China roughly two, so tax has elevated levels for 2025 -- for the group level we expect to be roughly flat. The next China would be roughly up 50 bps. So as Deepak says, we're expecting that benefit from price to come off significantly in 2025. That's fully baked in to our forecast and our guidance for the year.

So regarding margin, I wouldn't anchor to either the low end or the high end of that range. So the intent here actually is not necessarily to be more conservative in our forecast. I mean, coming off of a margin target that we had in 2025 is not an easily done thing. It was a very painful thing for me personally to have to come off of that. Having said that, what you also don't want to do is put forward something and then have to revise it again, right? So what we're dealing with is significant uncertainty around China, bottom line the reason for this range is China. We've commented on how sports joint repair played out a little differently than we had set out. We've -- so the range we provided takes that into account but it also takes into account AET which is the other part of sports that's come through. So that range gives us the ability to kind of deliver within that. But like I said, I wouldn't anchor the low end, or the high end of that range. And as we progress through the year certainly at Q1, we'll be able to kind of tighten up that range for you. Recognizing what John said in his remarks, which is -- this will be another year, where for a variety of reasons, it's going to be a story of Q2 or H2 kind of margin step up. And that's been generally, how the last two years have played out. H1 kind of looks kind of a year-on-year, and the benefits come through in H2. That's been the story of 2023, it was a story in 2024. The factors have been different, in each of those years, but that will be how 2025 plays out as well.

If you think about the three key levers for margin in 2025, being operational leverage, China reflects cost savings. Obviously, there's a scenario. If we don't recover US, auto to the extent that we have said we will, that will mean we're at the bottom end of our range. If we did recover or do better, that will be -- we're at the top end of our range. On China, we've baked in 100 bps of margin dilution 110 bps of margin dilution in our bridge. That reflects both the sales reductions that I talked about earlier, across both Orthopedics and sports. So I think, we've baked that in, but there's always uncertainty around that of course, it's very difficult to forecast. But we've baked that in. And then the cost savings, I feel pretty confident on the cost savings to the degree that we've got sort of 51 programs that drive those cost savings, half of which are already embedded and complete, the other half of which are close to. So we've got pretty good visibility to the cost savings. So, I think in order of risk, you've got the operational leverage piece then China and then cost savings where we've got pretty good visibility, but they would -- the mix of those will determine the bottom and the top end of the range.

That's great. Thanks John. So one to two more questions in the room, we've got a bunch queued up over the phone. David, and then we'll come back. Q – David Adlington: Thanks. David Adlington, JPMorgan. Just in terms of -- on the inventory side, maybe for John. Any targets you're willing to share in terms of how much you might reduce inventory this year? And then related to that, how we should be thinking about free cash flow evolving from last year, because last year was obviously, very good. And then, just on margins, obviously cost savings coming through or getting some top line leverage. How are you thinking about margins beyond 2025, and how much you might need to reinvest versus allowing it to drop through?

Do you take the inventory?

Look on inventory, we're not going to give specific targets. I think we said, we've made good progress this year. You've seen at both the group level. And more importantly, I think in every single business unit level, we've made good progress on DSI. We also make the point that the quality of our inventory is better. So, we've had a buildup of inventory obviously, for new product launches, but that's meant that the stuff that doesn't turn very quickly. We've actually reduced the number of those units by about 17%. So, we're both improving the day sales inventory and also the quality of our inventory. I think in terms of targets for 2025, we're not going to be specific on that, but you've seen the direction of travel and we want to try and maintain that direction to travel through 2025. If you -- how does that impact on our free cash flow. While we said, free cash flow will be north of $600 million for the year versus the $551 million in 2024, I'd like to beat that. I think we've got -- we've built some -- there's a little bit of a step-up in the CapEx, as a consequence of our new facility that we're installing in Melton in Northeast. But I think, we should be aiming to try and be driving north of $600 million and maybe getting to $650 million in terms of free cash flow for the year. That should see our leverage reduced from the 1.9 times, we exited this year, down to 1.6 times at the end of 2025. That's the direction of travel that we're going. And in terms of margin beyond 2025, look, we're not going to sit here and give guidance at 2026 and 2027, but we said frequently that you saw the cash -- the cost savings come through for this year at $210 million over the last two years. We should be trying to get that to close to north of $300 million coming through in 2025. We said $325 million to $375 million overall, so some of that will come through in 2026 and 2027. Some will be a new savings, some will be annualization of 2025 savings, but we do expect our margin to accrete through 2026 and 2027.

Good morning. Ken Larkin [ph], Deutsche. Just on robotics we haven't spoken too much about CORI. I'm just wondering you've obviously got Mako and Roseland of large footprint space. But just in the -- in terms of any color you can share on the competitive landscape in the small footprint space where CORI plays whether it be J&J or think many or the other one -- just any commentary there. It sounds like you're gaining some decent momentum.

Yeah. First of all very pleased with the traction we're getting with CORI. We're not dissecting the market into small footprint, large footprint. It's the robotics market that enables surges to implant knees or hips or shoulder. And what I'm pleased about is not only the gross number, but where we're actually placing CORI. We're placing them in academic medical institutions where historically we've had -- we've been under-indexed, replacing them in the ASC that slightly higher proportion than our overall share speaking to the value proposition -- the broad value proposition that CORI has. But what I'm also pleased with is the level of utilization. We could be running a place first type of strategy. That's not what we're doing. We're actually placing them where there is demand and where we place them, the utilization is at a nice level. So very pleased with the traction that we're getting. And as we indicated since 2022, we've invested in fully featuring CORI. We started out for example with a milling based approach. We've got feedback from the market, the surgeon preferences run from cutting and -- range from cutting and milling. So we brought forward cutting functionality on to CORI, which we had originally not started off with. It's the only platform and actually coming and taking a step back, CORI has some features that only it has, right? CORI is the only platform that's able to do revisions, because we offer both image and image free solutions. We were the only platform that's able to do soft tissue balance before the surgeon ever cuts. So each one of these things aren't on their own going to move the needle on the combination is what we're looking for. It's starting to play itself out that way. And as I commented on around CORI's applicability for shoulder at the start of the 12-Point Plan, we didn't think about having that program but we actually pulled it in because we see the potential for the footprint that CORI has. It's not a large installed base is a handheld kind of thing. It lends itself to the shoulder space. We are on the arthroplasty side, a relatively small player in shoulder. So it's not just about having CORI, but we've got to have a full implant portfolio. And as you know we're on a path. We're in the early stages of launch of AETOS shoulder and that's going to play itself out. So this is a platform that we expect to build on. We've got great proof points already to build on it. And so overall I feel good about how we're positioned competitively with the port.

Thanks. John, just maybe a quick one for you. Just on slide 26 on the ROIC. You're probably not going to want to answer this post-2025. But just I mean you haven't put the numbers in, but it looks as if Ortho is doubling its ROIC. That's a chart.

Number…

Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Just wondering, we're expecting to double the ROIC.

Yeah, double the ROIC.

Assuming obviously, you're working your way up to market growth. You haven't fully annualized that number clearly, but just in 2026 assuming you do get there. Should we assume that the ROIC will exceed WACC in post-year? And sort of, if it doesn't, how long do you give yourselves.

So I'm not going to get drawn on when we'll sort of cross the cost of capital line in also. But our expectations would suggest it's sometime between 26% and 27%. So we'll see how we progress this year but certainly a big step-up in 2025 so doubling in 2025 and then with a view to getting to our cost of capital sometime in 2026 and 2027.

The key driver there is U.S., recon performance.

Yeah.

And so what you look for is continued improvement. And obviously we saw a sequential improvement in 2024. We expect to build on that in 2025. So that will be the key kind of lead indicator of how we're going to do in ROIC. So we want to take on the phone. So I think we've got Graham Doyle, on the phone, so we get to him first.

Thanks guys. Good morning and thanks for taking my questions. Just two for me, one on China and one on Ortho margin. Just on China in terms of the -- I suppose the Ortho and Sports Med business. I suspect the question now. Is there -- is there a path where you basically just shut this business down. Presumably, we're not in margin-accretive territory today. So just your thoughts on that and what will be a go, no-go decision? And then, on the plant closure, so those are coming through and you're obviously seeing better profits coming through in U.S. or in particular. Is there anything we need to think about in terms of the cost of the inventory you hold today? And when this kind of better or lower COGS inventory comes through? And then just as a sense for us, how much profitable is U.S. Ortho given the fixed cost there? Because, if we think about the Q4 benefit and the context of the guide cut in late-October and obviously the change there and then we think about the better momentum continuing into 2025, is just to get a sense of like how much more profitable is this than say some of the other businesses that have been growing in the last two or three years? Thank you very much.

Okay. You were acoustically hard to hear the second part of the question. So I'll do my best, in terms of what I understood it to be, but going to the first thing about China. So China Orthopedics today at VBP price levels is not a profitable business for us. Why are we in it? First it's giving, ourselves the opportunity to see how the market evolves and in particular how Robotics gets adopted in that market, in order for us to do that you need to maintain a certain level of presence and actually have direct some efforts in developing the Robotics market. And so depending on how that develops, China could get back to not what it was in terms of attractiveness from a profitability standpoint, but to a better place than it is today. So we're in orthopedics today to see how that market actually develops. And Sports is a better picture, from a profitability standpoint post-the price -- I mean, obviously it is a straight impact to bottom-line right? So there is no -- although, we've adopted the channel to take VBP Pricing into account, it's pretty much a good fall-through impact. But it's in a better place than Ortho is. So that’s how to think about this Sports business versus the Ortho business in China. In terms of go/no-go decision, we decided to enter into the current round of Recon tender and that was in March of 2024. Originally, it was intended to go for three years. There is some indications so they may extend that out to three years. So the go/no-go decision would be essentially where we want to participate in the next round of tender, right? And that depends on how the market evolves between now and then. So that’s the short answer to how we think about go/no-go. In terms of the cost of inventory, as you know – a significant part of the value of inventory come – of inventory number is from the reval of inventory. And so its fairly complicated picture, but suffice to say as we go into 2026 and 2027 as inflation and impact inflation recedes you should start to see what have been significant headwind turn into a more neutral picture as it comes into our P&L. And -- John, did you catch his on the 2025 question?

I didn’t catch the question, but I just got to build on the last one. Just on the plant closures just to be clear – we’re already starting to see in cash terms the benefit of those plant closures coming through in terms of our cost of production. But as Deepak says there's -- so that's moving in a positive direction. At the moment it's being offset by the inventory reval and hence why the gross margin moved backwards slightly year-on-year, but also the China pricing effects. Over time it takes about a year or so in our Ortho business for the benefits of those lower production costs to flow through that inventory. And that's why we're saying the second half of this year is when we're going to see that benefit come through. So it's not like we're not enjoying the lower cost today. It just takes about 12 months or so to flow through into the P&L that's what gives us pretty good visibility on the numbers as we come through the second half. So I just want to make that point clear. And I didn't catch the second question you have to...

Okay. We need to get to all the phone but Gram is a 30-second kind of repeat of your -- the second part of your question.

That's great. Thank you very much, guys. Appreciate it.

Thanks, Graham. So we go to Hassan from Barclays. Hassan Al-Wakeel

Hi. Can you hear me?

We can.

Perfect. Thank you. Hassan Al-Wakeel from Barclays. Three from me please. Firstly just on Q1 and the lower growth here what could this look like ex-China -- and how should we think about group growth in Q2 and whether you expect that to be within the guidance range -- just trying to understand how back-end loaded the year is from a growth perspective? And then secondly related to this on margins it's not unusual to have 300 basis points of margin differential between H1 and H2. But should we expect a more pronounced difference given the softer first half growth expectations? And then finally just on the additional VBP in AEP. Thank you for quantifying could you walk us through some of the underlying assumptions in terms of price reduction and volume changes that you've baked in? And what is left in sports medicine in China that hasn't yet had VBP and how are you thinking about risks here over time? Thank you.

Okay. So maybe I'll take the last one first and then the next to last and John you can take the quarterly phasing. So in terms of AET, it's a -- as we indicated in terms of the top-line impact we called out about $25 million of impact of AET. It is significantly smaller than our joint repair business. So, for AET is a big part but for a group level, it's not as big a portion. But once VBP gets hit with AET or hits AET, this essentially that covers the range of impact for the China Sports Medicine business. So there's not really a lot left after this. There's a bit of capital but that's about it. In terms of the type of margin step-up H1 to H2 that we're expecting, what's implied in our models is not a unprecedented level of H1 to H2 margin step-up in order to deliver the margin guidance that we've indicated. And as you can probably do the math, if you go back to several years in terms of the delta between H1 and H2 margins, what we're expecting in 2025 is within kind of the range what we've seen. So you want to address the quarterly phasing?

I'll just come very quickly to the last one. Just on the $25 million that we've guided to on AET, that's roughly split about $15 million, of that is price and volume and about $10 million is channel adjustment. So that gives you a little bit of flavor as to the shape of that impact. The half-one half-two split, I'd look to 2023. That's a good benchmark in terms of the level of step-up. And in terms of the question around China, so if we look at our overall growth ex China, it is up. Obviously, there's about 140 bps of difference for the full year between our Inc. China and our group ex China growth. So China does have quite a big drag on the business. In terms of our ADS growth ex China, we should be looking at around 5% or so for Q1. And Q2, we should be looking at around 8% or so, and similar for Q3 and then a little bit down in Q4. So, it's -- again, it's phased through the year but we are expecting around 4% ADS growth ex China in Q1. Hopefully that gives you a bit of color.

Good. So I think we'll need to leave it here in the interest of time. Thank you again for your interest and engagement, and looking forward to coming back in a couple of months' time to give you a sense for how Q1 progress. So thank you very much.