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Snap-on Incorporated (SNA)

Q4 2011 Earnings Call· Thu, Feb 2, 2012

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Snap-on Inc.'s 2011 Fourth Quarter and Full-Year Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, this call is being recorded. I would now like to introduce your host for today's conference call, Leslie Kratcoski, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Leslie H. Kratcoski

Analyst

Thanks, Yolanda, and good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us today to review Snap-on's Fourth Quarter 2011 results, which are detailed in our press release issued earlier this morning. We have on the call today Nick Pinchuk, Snap-on's Chief Executive Officer; and Aldo Pagliari, Snap-on's Chief Financial Officer. Nick will kick off our call this morning with his perspective on our performance. Aldo will then provide a more detailed review of our financial results. After Nick provides some closing thoughts, we'll take your questions. As usual, we have provided slides to supplement our discussions. You can find a copy of these slides on our website next to the audio icon for this call. These slides will be archived on our website along with the transcript of today's call. Any statements made during this call relative to management's expectations, estimates or beliefs, or otherwise state management's or the company's outlook, plans or projections are forward-looking statements and actual results may differ materially from those made in such statements. Additional information and the factors that could cause our results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements are contained in our SEC filings. With that said, I will now turn the call over to Nick Pinchuk. Nick?

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

Thanks, Leslie. Good morning, everyone. Well, our fourth quarter represented an encouraging performance to cap off the year. The progress was not only reflected in the financials, but it also can be seen in our strategic advancements. The Snap-on Value Creation Processes, the principles and processes we use everyday to guide our actions, they're driving results. Our focus on safety, quality, customer connection, innovation and Rapid Continuous Improvement or RCI, as we often call it, it's paying off. And we believe the advancements made throughout 2011 on our runways for both growth and improvement position us to go forward with strength. Aldo will provide detail on the financials. But first, I'll offer some of my perspectives on the highlights for both the quarter and for the year. Sales in the fourth quarter were up organically by almost 6% from 2010. Operating income rose about 30% with our operating margin of 16.3%, up from 13.5% last year. Now that profit increase, of course, included some substantially higher earnings for Financial Services. As expected, that rise came right along with the continuing buildup of our on-book portfolio. But before Financial Services, the operating margin was 14.1% and that compares to 12.6% last year and represents a new high for Snap-on for any quarter. With respect to the economic environment, the events in Europe are creating a bit more of a headwind. I don't think that'll come as a surprise to anybody. I would, however, still characterize our overall market on balance as favorable, fairly stable and you see that in our overall sales growth. Just as we've demonstrated since the recovery began, we were once again able to gain position and to find the pockets of strength that allowed us to offset areas of external weakness. I told you during the discussion…

Aldo J. Pagliari

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

Thanks, Nick, and good morning to everyone. Our consolidated operating results are summarized on Slide 6. Net sales in the fourth quarter of $736.6 million increased $39.7 million or 5.7% year-over-year. Excluding foreign currency translation, organic sales increased 5.9%, reflecting sales growth across the majority of our businesses. Higher sales in the Snap-on Tools Group combined with increased sales to a wide range of customers in critical industries and emerging markets, higher essential tool and facilitation program sales and higher sales of diagnostics and Mitchell 1 software products more than offset weakness in Europe, particularly in the southern regions. Consolidated gross profit of $335.8 million in the quarter increased to $17.3 million from 2010 levels. As a percentage of sales, gross margin of 45.6% in the quarter was comparable with last year. Operating expenses in the quarter of $232 million were on par with 2010 levels. As a percentage of sales, operating expenses of 31.5% in the quarter improved 160 basis points from 33.1% last year, largely due to benefits from sales volume leverage, savings from RCI and restructuring initiatives, lower bad debt expense and lower stock-based mark-to-market compensation expense. These improvements were partially offset by higher performance -based incentive compensation expense and $2.6 million of higher pension expense. Restructuring cost the $4.4 million in the quarter compared to $5.8 million last year. Operating earnings before Financial Services of $103.8 million in the quarter increased $16.3 million or 18.6% from 2010 levels. As a percentage of sales, operating earnings before financial services improved 150 basis points from 12.6% last year to 14.1% this year. Operating earnings from Financial services of $22.1 million in the quarter improved $12.7 million from 2010 levels, reflecting the continued growth of our on-book finance portfolio. Consolidated operating earnings of $125.9 million in the quarter increased…

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

Thanks, Aldo. Well, to wrap up, we're quite encouraged by our results for the full year in general and for the fourth quarter in particular. Our attention to the Snap-on Value Creation Processes are driving real improvement. OpCo operating margins for the year and the quarter were up from last year, 140 basis points and 150 basis points, respectively, both significant increases. And we continue to bring the credit company on-book with reliability, without disruption and with profitability, just as we said we would. We believe we're making clear advancements on our strategic runways for coherent growth, the van network is more robust, profits are up, turnover is down. RS&I is expanding our offering to shop owners and managers in new places. Our growth in critical industries within double digits, and we've built more physical capability in emerging markets with the opening of our new engineering center in Kunshan. As usual, we do have continuing challenges in Europe and other places, but the strength of our strategic initiatives brought us to an almost 6% organic sales gain in this quarter, well into our target post-recovery range, despite the headwinds. And our operating company in common, OI margin for both the quarter and the year, represent record levels for our company despite the headwinds. Summing it all up, we're encouraged by the results, by the progress they evidence, by the strength they confirm and most of all, by the prospects they imply. I'll end, as we always do, by recognizing that the performance over the quarter and the year reflects the special dedication of our Snap-on associates and franchisees around the world. I know that many of you are listening. You are the ones who have created this performance and have made this trend possible. For your extraordinary contribution to Snap-on and for your unwavering commitment to our team, you have my congratulations and you have my thanks. Now I'll turn the call over to the operator for questions. Operator?

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] We'll go first to David Leiker with Robert W. Baird. Joseph D. Vruwink - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: This is Joe on the line for David. I'm sorry I hopped on the call a little late, so I apologize if you gave this number. But the past few quarters, you've given us C&I organic growth number x Europe, would you happen to know them?

Aldo J. Pagliari

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

C&I number x Europe, I don't know if we've given that in the past. I think we gave it Southern Europe in the past, I'm not sure we have that or interested in giving that or will give that at this time. If you want to call back later maybe we... Joseph D. Vruwink - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: Yes, I was just -- rather to have, I guess, excluding the headwinds, so Southern Europe but I...

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

The thing to do, if you -- what I will tell you is this, Europe breaks down pretty much like this. If you look at our businesses in Europe, we have Southern Europe and Southern Europe is down further than it has been in the past, 15% to 20% now. And so that is particularly right down the center of C&I. This time, we have an impact on the Equipment -- we have the Equipment business, which is down in Europe Now I'm not sure if that's economy related or just 1/4 motion, because the Equipment business can be a little lumpy. And last year, there was a couple of shows in Europe that made it difficult, and that made the comparisons difficult. But the rest of Europe for us is up 2% to 3%. Now that's softened from where we were. If you pull out -- I suspect if you pull out everything out of all the European businesses out of C&I, you're talking about a 5% to 6% to 7% growth in C&I, so you're still seeing a pretty robust business if you take Europe out of it. Now I will call your attention to, if you weren't on the call, the big pieces that's very strong in C&I is the Industrial business, and we've been mentioning that our runway for growth and in critical industries has been open for us. And in the past quarters, it's been masked by the military activity going down. But this quarter, with the military activity comparisons being a little softer on a year-over-year basis, that business grew by double digits. So in balance, you have C&I down, you have C&I impacted by Europe but still growing in our 4% to 6% range, so let's say at around this 5% to 6% range without Europe. Joseph D. Vruwink - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: All right, great. And I actually wanted to touch on the other growth aspect of C&I, the emerging market piece. Do you happen to know what Thailand as a percent of that segment represents, because I'd imagine with all the flooding, they're going to need a lot of car repair in the near term?

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

Would you think less of me if I admitted to not knowing the Thailand number at this time. But if you want to call in, we may have it. I think our business is reasonable in Thailand but a kind of secondary market. The big markets in Asia are India, China, Japan, Indonesia, Philippines. Thailand would be in the second level around Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand. I think you're right. I think there is opportunity for it to grow there. We have a good share. We have a reasonable position, at least in the, I guess, top end of the market. Joseph D. Vruwink - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: All right. And then one last one for me, the Tools business obviously had a great quarter and organic growth accelerated sequentially, growing 9% wherein Q3 it looks like it was up 6% organic. You've always talked about that business being maybe at the lower end of the 4% to 6% sustainable range. I'm just wondering, going from 9%, what's going on in that business that's enabling such strong growth and where do you see it going forward to the next...

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

Well, I think one quarter does not a whole trend make. So I wouldn't get -- I don't think we get excited about any of our businesses, particularly about one quarter or another. I think you can't draw any conclusions, big conclusions from one quarter. But I'll say this, the Tools Group, we have said for a long time that they have to deal with a certain fixed space, the technicians in the United States. But then we have also said very quickly that our vans call on only a subset -- fully enabled, our vans only call on a subset of that space because they've just -- it's a productivity issue. They only have so many hours in the week, because they have to call on these people every week. And if we can enable them with RCI, then volume will accrue. And that's what's been happening. You're seeing RCI flow through the vans. Now is it going to happen at 9% every quarter? I don't know. I can't comment on that. But I think what you're seeing in the robust quarter is a combination of things, but one of the major factors is the effect of that van network being more robust, being more productive and therefore, capturing more sales of those technicians and calling on more of them. Joseph D. Vruwink - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: If you had to give a baseball analogy, how much more room you have to go in the productivity initiatives with the van network, where would you think you're at?

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

I don't have to give a small analogy though, but I don't know. I think there's quite a bit of runway there, but we have said, I think, our targets, our range is 4% to 6%. We've said that the Tools Group, because of the fixed nature of its business, will be at the lower end of that with RS&I in the middle and C&I at the top end. And we don't -- nothing in this quarter tells us that, that's wrong. Okay?

Operator

Operator

We'll take our next question from Jim Lucas with Janney Capital Market.

Michael J. Wherley - Janney Montgomery Scott LLC, Research Division

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

This is Mike Wherley standing in. You guys mentioned restructuring in Europe in the C&I business and I was just wondering, have you resized the SNA Europe to reset up a lower demand level or do you still have belief that those markets are coming back?

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

We believe the markets are coming back. What you see in the restructuring is simply the effect of RCI rolling through that business so we can do our target with less.

Michael J. Wherley - Janney Montgomery Scott LLC, Research Division

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

Okay. So no change to sort of the size of...

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

No, we might. Jim, we might have closed -- we didn't close any big operations or anything like that or rationalize the distribution. We're just -- I think this is what I would call aggressively RCI-ing the business.

Michael J. Wherley - Janney Montgomery Scott LLC, Research Division

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

Okay. And then when we look at RS&I, the revenue growth, it's still there but it decelerated from like 5% and 10% the last 2 quarters. And I'm just wondering, relative to like that 10% 2 quarters ago, how much of that is due to Europe versus just some tougher comps as you came out in the downturn.

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

Both, Jim. I think that if you're looking at the 10%, that's the easier comps. When you go back and you look at the trend of RS&I, I mean the growths were 11%, 7%, 9%, 6%, 4%, 8%. so you saw it coming off the easier comps. And in fact, some of those businesses were slower to come back than others. So you saw that rolling through the business. Rolling through that sector. What you saw in the fourth quarter was fundamentally the equipment business being a little bit off the boil. And I don't -- and a lot of it's in Europe and we're not sure how to interpret that. I'm not willing to say it's economic-related, I just think we do see from time to time lumpiness in the Equipment business. So the 2.4% in organic and RS&I in the quarter, yes, it's below what we would normally expect, but not I would call what I'd say concerning to us or alarming.

Michael J. Wherley - Janney Montgomery Scott LLC, Research Division

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

But would you say it's more from the weakness in Europe than tougher comps?

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

Yes, I'd say so. I'd say so. Yes, I'd say that. I'd say that.

Michael J. Wherley - Janney Montgomery Scott LLC, Research Division

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

And then just the last question I had on the Financial Services portfolio...

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

So let me clarify that for a minute, if I could. The one thing, the one clarification that as I said, I think, in the last point is that Europe Equipment business had in itself a noneconomic tougher comp because it has every other year's show cycles and so therefore, there's some of that flowing through this business. So all things being equal, we would have not expected as robust the fourth quarter out of RS&I because of this. Now I'm not saying that accounts for all of this, but that's a factor.

Michael J. Wherley - Janney Montgomery Scott LLC, Research Division

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

Okay. The last question I had was on Financial Services and you talk about that portfolio being over $1 billion, a little bigger than you had thought before -- by the end of next year or -- and I'm just wondering is that more because the Tools Group is doing well or is it because of other credit offerings outside the Tools Group?

Aldo J. Pagliari

Analyst · Janney Capital Market

Mike, this is Aldo. It really reflects a higher pace of growth in the Snap-on Tools Group. We do like to work closely with the Tools Group, it's one of the advantages of having a captive finance company. So the Snap-on Credit Corporation works intimately with them to design programs that encourage greater levels of participation. So what I think you see is that we've had a more rapid of ramp-up of originations in the Snap-on Credit Company, reflecting really increased financial health and commercial health of the franchisee network, and that spills over into their customer base. And I think that's why you see some increased performance in the Tools Group itself, and Snap-on Credit also participates in like fashion.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] We'll go next to Richard Hilgert with MorningStar.

Richard J. Hilgert - Morningstar Inc., Research Division

Analyst · MorningStar

On the RCI Slide -- I'm sorry the C&I Slide...

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · MorningStar

Do you mean RS&I?

Richard J. Hilgert - Morningstar Inc., Research Division

Analyst · MorningStar

No, C&I.

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · MorningStar

C&I, okay.

Richard J. Hilgert - Morningstar Inc., Research Division

Analyst · MorningStar

The gross profit line, if I add back the $2.9 million in restructuring costs, I'm still coming up with a 37% of sales gross profit margin. So that leaves us with 140 basis points decline in margin from year-over-year. So I'm wondering, you had mentioned the RCI going through Europe and you've got some restructuring that you're going to do because of it, and you're going to be able to do more with less over there. Does that get us the 140 basis points of margin that we used to have? Or is there pricing pressure over there too?

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · MorningStar

Well, let me just speak to that a moment. First, I think it's just -- I think the most -- I guess, the most informative way to look at C&I is not necessarily gross margin, because what you have flowing through that is you have business mix, for example, as some of that. I'm not saying it's the whole effect but I'm saying some of it, it gets distorted by the fact that when Asia-Pacific grows, Asia-Pacific is, by definition, a low gross margin business and a low OE business, still as profitable from an OI business. So that tends to reek a little bit of distortion, Richard, on that gross margin line. So if you roll over to OI which is still down, 140 basis points or something and you say, "Okay, 90 basis points of that is restructuring," you're still down 50 basis points -- what's wrong, what's the problem. And the problem is Europe, you put your finger on it. And in Europe, there are 3 things going on. One is Southern Europe is down again and you may not have heard this, but I've said this on the calls before, for us, Southern Europe was our highest profitability and margin business. So there is a mix question as Southern Europe shrinks further for us on a year-over-year comparison basis. That creates some impact. Then there is the question of -- they have a cocktail of currencies, they source from a number different places on renminbi and the Argentine peso and a number of different places. And those things turn somewhat favorably, so that's some impact. And then, which I think is the more interesting view is, we have in Europe what we're calling a stimulus program where we focus on places where we think we could gain with customers by having programs that attached a little bit more effort, a little bit more support, a little bit more price support. And those kinds of things impact as well. It worked for us in the recession in the United States. We had a stimulus program that targeted places where we thought we could advance our position, and that's what we're playing out in Europe. So those are the 3 factors that have tended to pretty much move that OI margin down. Now are we going to get back? I think that's the intent over time, but I'm not saying that -- I don't think you can say, "Look, we made these restructuring actions in Europe, and that's going to fix the problem," because the problem in Southern Europe is frankly too deep to be fixed by RCI actions. Our whole structure in Europe is -- our whole view, approach to Europe is saying, "Look, we're watching our customers, we're watching our distribution, we're seeing our share and we believe this market's coming back. We think we'll be stronger than before and therefore, we're just preparing for that day because we think we can capitalize on that."

Richard J. Hilgert - Morningstar Inc., Research Division

Analyst · MorningStar

The car market over in Europe is quite a bit different. The repair business, the artisan keeping his tools to do his trade is the same. But over in Europe, you've got about 1/2 of the cars that belong to fleets. How does that dynamic factor in when we've got a slowing economic environment? I would think that these corporations would be holding onto these vehicles longer and trying to get more use out of them, therefore, there might be more repair opportunities. Is that how to look at it?

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · MorningStar

Yes, I think that might be true. I think you'll be entitled to that assumption. It certainly happened in the United States as people -- as new car volumes go down. People hold on their cars longer and that drives more repair, so that would be one tailwind we would see. Now remember when we're talking about Europe, we're less auto-centric than we are in the United States, but that's what still give us a boost, because we have our automotive business in Europe. And the way we structured that wouldn't all come out of C&I. We've seen some of it in Tools, we've seen some of -- that phenomena you're talking about, we've seen some of it in Tools, we've seen some of it in RS&I and so on, but it would be a clear tailwind for us.

Richard J. Hilgert - Morningstar Inc., Research Division

Analyst · MorningStar

Okay, good. Last area I wanted to touch on was again this objective of achieving $1 billion plus on the balance sheet for Financial Services. As time goes by and we see economic improvement over here in the U.S. and new car sales start to improve, on the one hand, we might have a decline in the aftermarket in the sense that people aren't keeping the used car as much. They're getting more new. But on the other hand, as that economic conditions improve, there might be more creation of additional repair shops, which would need tooling to get up and running. Is that part of where the increase in the funding or the receivables comes from is an assumption that we'll see an increase in franchisees, and because there's an increase in the number of shops coming as the economy improves?

Aldo J. Pagliari

Analyst · MorningStar

Again, Richard, Aldo. I'll answer that as best I can. I think the growth in the portfolio, as envisioned, is mostly on the extended credit portfolio side, which is the bread and butter of what we do. It makes up 81% of what we do today. And I think the lion share of the growth beyond where we're at right now, the additional $125 million, I think we see on the slide that $95 million or so come -- or 77% of those, still come from extended credit. So again, that's catering to the mechanic as an end customer via the franchise network. What you hinted at, there will be some of it that's called -- what we call the leasing, when shop owners -- it's a small piece of what we do, it makes them about 4% to 5% of the Snap-on Credit portfolio today as leasing activity. When the shop owners sometimes needs financing, they will sometimes consider Snap-on credit as a source. But that's a little bit of a different credit profile, different bit of a mix and therefore, they have other alternatives available for them, they have -- can have local banks that might be available for them as a source of funds, as well as Snap-on Credit as well as other leasing companies. So to answer your question if shops expand, that does create an opportunity for Snap-on credit to grow, but the lion share of the growth that we're talking about is just the increased participation of our activity with mechanics as end customers.

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · MorningStar

But I think you're -- I just want to add to that. I think you're right about an underlying sort of macro in there. And that generally, in markets we have seen, one of the great things about being in critical industries in automotive repair is critical tasks. And automotive repair is one of those, is they tend to move upwards as the world facilitized. For example, you mentioned new cars and so on, but new cars, the new car market in the United States, has been up or down. It's $9 million, $10 million, I think $17 million. And despite that, cars have gotten older every year since 1980. So the idea of the repair and demand keeps going upward, and I think that is just an underlying trend that says, "Okay, there are going to be more shops." There's going to be more demand for repair, and in fact, when you look at the statistics about the average household spend on automotive repair, it's going up. It went up again last quarter and it's been going up pretty much regularly every quarter for a long time. So you're correct at putting your finger on one of the great driving points behind these macro driving points behind this businesses.

Richard J. Hilgert - Morningstar Inc., Research Division

Analyst · MorningStar

Okay. Just as a follow-on to that, what's the anticipated growth rate in the number of franchisees for the coming couple of years?

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · MorningStar

I think -- I don't think we're going to see it move up that much. We have 3,400 -- depends on the geography in the United States, we have 3,467 now that moved a couple in the past few years. You might see some increase, but our play -- I think the play about numbers of franchisees is not there. What will happen, we believe, is efficiency. One, franchisees, the individuals will reach more customers, they call on 800,000 now, there are 1.3 million in the United States. They can call on more. It's a productivity issue. It's what I said before. Two, we have turnover, and it's an all-time low, but it's still about 8% a year. So you do the math and you figure out how many turnover, a couple -- 300 a year. And our ability to fill them quickly has to do with our ability to serve the market. So we get better every quarter at filling those things, and that adds capacity, even within the same number of shares. So the effect for the Tools Group is more around productivity for the vans themselves, that's the growth place. And our productivity internally, where we could be more efficient and popping somebody in when they're ready to retire.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] We'll take our next question from Gary Prestopino with Barrington Research.

Gary F. Prestopino - Barrington Research Associates, Inc., Research Division

Analyst · Barrington Research

A couple of questions here. Hey Aldo, in terms of the overhead expenses related to Snap-on Credit, is that still running at about $25 million to $30 million?

Aldo J. Pagliari

Analyst · Barrington Research

I think as a ratio, Gary, the best I can determine, let's say you're in the 6% range, if you look at what percent of revenues that they tend to generate, you'll see good drop through. The biggest expense that flexes as you grow the portfolio is really the provision for bad debt. As you grow the portfolio, you have to have -- anticipate bad debt expense that goes along with that. To me that's the biggest variable expense. Of course, there's underlying structural additions you look at. And we always look ahead to will it be increased costs of compliance. So there's some variables out there on the horizon, and we don't really give guidance around it. But it's a pretty scalable organization, but you don't have to have lots of incremental [ph] costs to grow.

Gary F. Prestopino - Barrington Research Associates, Inc., Research Division

Analyst · Barrington Research

Is that 6% of Financial Services revenue, 6% of the total loans out there?

Aldo J. Pagliari

Analyst · Barrington Research

I'm looking at 6%, if you look at the top line more or less, if you look at where you're at. The financial expenses run in the order of about $50 million, $51 million, I believe, they were on a full year basis this year. So that's about -- that'll grow a little bit going forward. The biggest variable expense is really a provision for bad debt expense.

Gary F. Prestopino - Barrington Research Associates, Inc., Research Division

Analyst · Barrington Research

Okay, that's fine. And then, Nick, you kind of mentioned in your talk that throughout the quarter you started Q4, obviously, Europe continues to weaken and we know the problems in the South and -- but can you maybe comment on what you're seeing so far in the quarter? Is there any changes there? I mean has it gotten worse in terms of both the North and South?

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · Barrington Research

I hate to comment on the South of Europe because I seem to be -- I remember I was on one of these calls one time and I think I said I thought it bottomed out, and that turned out to be misinformed. So that was a long time ago. But we're not -- we don't give guidance, but I can say I don't think we're seeing any sea change, what -- we're seeing kind of the same stuff that we saw. And the interesting thing about Europe is if you look at it, it's kind of the same characteristics that we saw before, it's just that it generally weakened. The South is worse and then for us, the North was better and the Middle was kind of middling and that kind of thing, but we're not seeing any, I would say, any implosion or something like that.

Gary F. Prestopino - Barrington Research Associates, Inc., Research Division

Analyst · Barrington Research

Okay. It's just I asked those questions because it's in the headlines constantly, and you'd think it's falling off a cliff. Okay. And then one thing you did mention in terms of especially in the RS&I, or Repair and Infosystems, you talked about the products you sell generally offer productivity improvements. Have you ever mentioned like what kind of return, what productivity return a shop gets from some of these products that you're putting through there?

Nicholas T. Pinchuk

Analyst · Barrington Research

We haven't mentioned it. We haven't mentioned it. It becomes so specific as, I think, being difficult. You kind of have to look at a particular shop and a particular product. I mean, some of them are things like let's take in an aligner, for example. It's hard to measure the idea that -- what the productivity return will be if I can have the aligner run by anybody in the shop as opposed to a specific aligner tech. And that's the kind of thing that happens. And also though, it happens faster and so on. So we have a number of those things, but they're very specific to the shop condition because as an example I just pointed out, if you have an aligner tech, a specific aligner tech and some shop have had them and you bring in the aligner, was one of our new aligners and anybody can do it while you can in fact, redeploy that aligner tech and you get great productivity. But if you're a shop that didn't use aligner techs and kind of muddle along without them, then it isn't quite as much a productivity improvement or as dramatic a productivity improvement. So it really depends on the particular situation. Now if you wanted to go to a garage and look at them, we could probably take you through the elements of that in the specific situation. I think that would be more effective.

Operator

Operator

We'll take a follow-up question from David Leiker's line. Joseph D. Vruwink - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: All my questions have been answered.

Operator

Operator

And seeing no further question in our queue at this time, I'll turn the conference back over to Leslie Kratcoski for any additional or closing remarks.

Leslie H. Kratcoski

Analyst

Great. Thanks, Yolanda, and thanks, everyone, for joining us today. As always, a replay of the call will be available on snapon.com later today. We appreciate your participation this morning, and your interest in Snap-on. Good day.

Operator

Operator

That does conclude today's conference. Thank you, all, once again, for your participation.