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Companhia Siderúrgica Nacional (SID)

Q3 2015 Earnings Call· Sat, Nov 14, 2015

$1.30

+0.39%

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

[Interpreted]. Good afternoon and thank you very much for waiting. Welcome to CSN’s Conference Call for the Presentation of the Results Related to the Third Quarter of 2015. We have today the officers of the company. I would like to inform you that this event is being recorded and all participants will be on listen-only mode during the company’s presentation. Next we will initiate the Q&A session when further instructions will be provided. [Operator Instructions]. Today’s event is also being simultaneously webcasted online and it can be accessed through CSN website www.csn.com.br/ir. A slide presentation will be available through that website and will be controlled by you. The replay of this event will be available right after the call is completed. Before proceeding, let me mention that forward-looking statements may be made during this conference call related to CSN’s business projections and financial and operating targets, are mere assumptions and believe the company as valid information currently available. Future considerations are not a guarantee of performance as they involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions because it relates to future events. And therefore depend on circumstances that may, nor may not occur. Investors should understand that general economic conditions, industry conditions, and other operating factors may affect future performance of CSN and as such could lead to results that differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements. Now, I would like to turn the floor to Mr. Gustavo Sousa, CSN’s Controllership, Tax Planning and Investor Relations Officer, who will present the company’s operating and financial highlights for the period. Please Mr. Sousa you may proceed.

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Good afternoon everyone and thank you very much for participating in the CSN’s conference call for the results of the third quarter 2015. And now jumping straight to slide number 3, I have here a summary of our strategies to expand competitiveness and to recover our cash recovery. This strategy is based on three pillars, operating efficiency, which comprises the total integration of our assets generating synergies allowing us to be leaders in most part this segment. When we look at our projects, our investments are focused on cost reductions and volume increase. And more particularly we will talk about the migrations we did in the cement area. And after that we will have the presentation by Mr. Caffarelli, our Corporate Director who will talk about the financial aspects of the company. Now jumping to page 4, here we have a market overview in the different segments where we operate in terms of new, a very unique portfolio with a very good focus on cost which has allowed us to be very competitive abroad. In terms of mining, we have a world-class asset totally integrated. As for cement, we will see how this segment is growing in the company. And we will have further growing stages in this area. And we also would give some highlights on the logistics side about containers. And all of the segments have good assets that allow us to have self-sufficiency in terms of energy generation. In the next slide we have our main targets and consolidated results. Our EBITDA was BRL853 million, a 6% increase vis-à-vis the same quarter of the year before. Our EBITDA margin is 20% in keeping with the second quarter of this year. And a net loss of BRL533 million, our gross debt was BRL35 billion, net debt of…

Paulo Caffarelli

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you very much and thank you for participating. I would like to refer to our financial agenda for this quarter. It’s made out of four items, I’m on page 21. I would like to say that the word of order here is reducing net debt over EBITDA ratio or leverage. At CSN we focus on liquidity which is BRL11 billion. And in the third quarter, taking advantage of the depreciation of those exchange rates we had a percentage that if you invest above CDI our new revenue will be an increment of about BRL600 million. On item two, when below the liability management we were able to have an extension with Caixa Economica and Banco do Brasil at BRL4.8 billion. We are constantly looking for the best cost and the best channels. In terms of cost reduction and working capital requirements there is a very strong focus in the reduction of working capital, inventory and its objective reduction of cost. And finally, maybe what is more important to us at the moment is that in terms of divestment and the sale of some selected assets, all the banks are already, we take notice to already know that we are telling some assets. On page 22, now we see the result of the extension that we did with Caixa Economica and this refers to some operations for 2016 and 2017 until 2022 for five years and Banco do Brasil because that was also extended for the years of 2020 and 2022. So, why do we do that? We will have a better way to work in the steel with our selected assets and in a more stringent way, in terms of more effective funding we are now conducting some negotiations which in Japanese saying to securitize some iron-ore sales…

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

Before we jump to the Q&A, I would like to give the floor to Mr. Benjamin Steinbruch for his remarks.

Benjamin Steinbruch

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Good afternoon. I also have a few comments related to the recent past, the present and the future. In terms of the company last year we suffered an impact as well as the entire economy was impacted. We had a carryover inventory and also productive change also fell that impacted us in economic downturn. Last year we also experienced a weaker year but as our September, we started doing something and I’ll tell during our steel mill production to focus on the export market that was a difficult path because we were mostly concentrated in the domestic market. But now we are beginning to see the results which were more apparent in the first quarter of this year. We work in a different way now we are no longer operating through trading companies but to now our own teams in each, geography considering each country has internal markets. This, it takes longer for you to see results but by the same token, we have a better sale price and lower cost when we went to sell products with high added value. I would also tell you that is on February the economy was stagnated and as being stagnated allover particularly starting with the industrial sector, the average inventory time was three months. And the economy cut in almost half that, so intermediary stocks, inventories that each chain had to turn inventory of six months. So that come favorably to September, there were almost no replacement purchases but we then consumed all, of the inventory with a very minor replacement factor because we were delivering promptly. We hear the steel production was x percent, we believe that the Brazilian market sale by 40%. And we then geared our production to exports and we maintain our production but by the same…

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you. We’re opening now to question-and-answer session.

Operator

Operator

[Interpreted]. Thank you. [Operator Instructions]. The first question is from Leonardo Correa from BTG Pactual. Please go ahead, sir.

Leonardo Correa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Good afternoon everyone. Thank you. My first question is about price. You mentioned 8% increase in price, basically early next year. So just to have some color about acceptance or about implementation, do you think you could have 8% on top of basically old line or anything more specific for distribution processes. It’s the only time for us because there are some negotiations that are slightly apart, automotive for instance, sometimes it top and also some industrial players. So you get about an increase of 8%. How do you classify it and what about the ratio and the impact? And could you also comment on the premium in the domestic markets today and if you consider the results of the third quarter of other competitors that was, a lot of discounts taken place. And I wonder if you provide any discount to the third quarter or a renewal rather than an increase in net price. So just like to better understand the equation of price considering a challenging demand scenario and recession in 2016. My second question is about CapEx. It was crystal clear during the presentation, Benjamin, what you said about CapEx and tradeoff. The need to spend a little bit more in the short term to reap benefits in terms of cost in the long run. So the equation for net debt over EBITDA or leverage is far from simple and the ratio is going more. CapEx is higher than the market for us, imagine. So just to have more color, what is the plan for 2016? So what about the level that has cut down CapEx by half if necessary to try and go back to free cash flow, which is positively generated and what about CapEx for next year. So if you could give us some numbers that would be really helpful. And just to conclude Casa de Pedra, two about CapEx. For some time now, you have been working to that standard and considering the recent interest and unfortunately, we had a tragedy of some Arcos so, what about the raising of the dam to expand Casa de Pedra? Could you give us more detail? Thank you.

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you. Martinez is going to answer your question about price in steel.

Luis Fernando Barbosa Martinez

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Hi, Leonardo, Martinez speaking. First about premium hot band today considering the price, the preliminary engines from 6% to 8%, the code coil between zero and 2% and galvanize zero to 3%, will be announced net of 8%. We haven’t already taken over part of 5% or 6% increase in distribution and civil construction. And now we’re negotiating with companies, White Line, car parks and OEMs. The focus will be on selling more and more, or fewer amounts to more customers as to enrich the CSN mix in coated products. Benjamin talked a lot about value added products. Just to give an idea of the magnitude, my 39% to 42% coated product and for total product for CSN as a whole, some 39% to 45%. So, what will be next is to maintain the same strategy, domestic market focus on value added product, galvanized products and increased the level of service delivered to these clients. As to the outlook for the domestic market, what we see today, by the way another point that was not mentioned before, imports went down 52%, a product in which CSN already participates which is quite significant. Direct import and in the left, the drop was 13%. This is also very powerful if you believe that penetration of imports in the market we’re around few million. And the same this will go down to BRL1 million in the domestic market on our lap. And part of it will also be on CSN because part of it is material that was coming in galvanized and creates zinc plat. Another important point that is also happening and Benjamin put well that production changed by and large out of stock. So there are three drivers that would be in our favor in the fourth quarter and first quarter of next year, drop in direct import, drop in indirect product and ex-imports.

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you, Martinez. Gustavo speaking now. Answering your specific question about CapEx, and net debt over EBITDA. As we give you more detail on the investment and mining equipment, in addition to acquisition price of the equipment and the market condition and financing conditions that are also very favorable, the standard investment is projected in terms of mining cost for 2016 and which levels would be fully operational vis-à-vis 2015 there would be a reduction of present in mining cost. And in 2016 our prediction would be at least 10% higher compared to 2015. So, your point is clear, we think about it daily which is CapEx and investment, and impaired on net debt over EBITDA but there are opportunities that we cannot miss in the operation that has excellent result like mining. And so the outlook of investment for 2016, the numbers have not been closed yet. We had announced to the market our vision is BRL1.5 billion for 2016 but naturally with anticipation we revise the number. Possibly it would be zero-based budget. And we’ll be working on essential products that are underway. Now, Daniel is going to talk about the dam.

Daniel dos Santos

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Good afternoon, Leonardo. We were concerned with the accidents in Mariana Circumstances are very different, we’ll have different realities each mine is different. Each mine operates it’s dam slightly different from the rest and needs are also different. In spite of the Pedra, our dam is very secure and safe. You asked about this right, it is very secure, we have stability certificate issued in compliance with the environmental regulation for the dams in the state. And this week, we had an inspection team right after the accident in Mariana, two days ago more specifically. And everything is okay. As to the rating of the dam, that you asked we are our environmental license and permit is on schedule. And we expect it to happen business as usual as planned.

Leonardo Correa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

[Interpreted]. Our next question is from Usmat [ph] [indiscernible] from HSBC. Please go ahead sir.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you, good afternoon everyone. My question regards to the consequences of the tragedy in Samarco and also the demand by fine products. What about the volume of fines and premiums. Do you think the numbers will increase that’s my first question. Second question, I would like to have an update about a merger between Casa de Pedra Namisa, which is expected to happen in the coming months. Could you give us an update that would be really helpful. Thank you.

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you, Usmat [ph]. Gustavo is speaking now, and I’ll answer your second question. We are in the final process to be concluded in December this year. So far there are no problems and we expect to meet the deadline that we mentioned before. Daniel?

Daniel dos Santos

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Usmat [ph], Daniel speaking. About demand for fine products we do believe there might be a window of opportunities in the short term. More specifically it is not only Samarco that was affected and other competitive company was also affected. And principle portfolio of products may be supplied by ourselves. We decided to see that during studies in some projects to check whether at a right time if the window of opportunities really come up, we can meet and supply this principle demands in the market.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Okay, thank you.

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

[Interpreted]. Our next question is from [indiscernible] from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead sir.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Can we have some guidance about the reduction, to what extent is it due to the exchange impact or is that to cost reduction efforts? Could you give us additional guidance about how much we expect the reduction to happen?

Benjamin Steinbruch

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Over 10%, I’m sorry to interrupt, apparently we do not - listen the first part of the question, there is a problem in the connection. Would you mind repeating please?

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Sure. Due to all the substantial reduction in mining cost, can you break down or give us a guidance how much was an exchange effect and how much was due to cost reduction efforts and could you give us some guidance about how much is exchange and how much is effort, growing cost in the future? And maybe could you quantify your previous color about working capital going forward, considering all the improvements you’ve been making, that would be really helpful. Thank you.

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Okay. Regarding mining cost, naturally the exchange rate was favorable to us. And price and also cost because cost denominated in reais and products are in dollars but we have a real effort of reduction in reais, which is constant. So, we can say that let me just check my notes. Production was very significant, going down approximately BRL5 per ton quarter-on-quarter. So that’s the efforts we’re making. Whenever we put down cost, the impact is on the dollar-reais in order to have sustainable long-term reduction in reais. The idea is we have a long-term impact and volatility of the exchange rate. Although we have the perfect breakdown, but from the second to the third quarter, we had a reduction 9%. And percentage wise it is the same order of magnitude, also around 9%.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

[Interpreted]. Our next question is from Tiago from Bank of America.

Tiago Santile

Analyst

Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. My first question is about iron ore shipment for cutting years,- reduction of third party purchase and oncology spectra achieved 36 million tons next year. So what about the expectation for volume 2016 and going forward? Second question, maybe just to clarify. Cost in these two segments, you quantified the cost reduction, could you repeat the number please and explain the driver that would lead to this cost reduction? That would be great. Thank you.

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thiago, this year we expect to have 28 tons next year with the production of 36 million tons. We expect to be around 30 million, that’s our guidance. And we have to see what we have in the port services and third-party services next year but at our own production, we were working on the estimate. And going forward, depending on the investment in Casa de Pedra shipment, which is the bottleneck of production today and maybe to block the system as a whole, we might have a higher volume for 2017. As to the cost of the slab, I’m going to read in reais and dollars. Just bear with me for a second please, rechecking on this. So, the price of the slab was $320 and in reais was BRL984 or BRL979. This reduction was due to all of our investments in revamping our city, the investments in the coke plant and also further efficiency improvement in the processes of what are we doing at that time.

Tiago Santile

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

[Interpreted]. Our next question is from Rodolfo Angele from JPMorgan. You may proceed sir.

Rodolfo Angele

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Good afternoon. I would like to take the opportunity that Benjamin is also participating in this call, and ask you whether you can tell us what shareholders could expect in terms of dividends in the next coming years because in the past, the company paid out a lot of dividends, what should they expect to receive more from now on?

Benjamin Steinbruch

Analyst

[Interpreted]. As I said during the conference call for the results of the previous quarter, the dividend payout now is secondary to us considering our current priority and efforts to reduce our leverage levels. I think that what can be done in operating terms to reducing cost and improving revenue and improving EBITDA is an ongoing effort. And we have already seen the results, which we had a better third quarter. But it was a transition quarter. And in the fourth quarter, that’s when we will see a more apparent improvement in our EBITDA more in keeping with what we anticipate. In terms of indebtedness we are also taking all the possible measures. Our EBITDA improvements are now being undertaken in terms of the sale of assets will help us with our leverage levels. And certainly we knew that it would take at least six months, meaning that we are now receiving, we’re about to receive the first proposal because all of the banks are already working with the known assets, so demands are very promising for these assets. And we believe that we will be able to see some more concrete results in the next quarter, in the fourth quarter. So, what’s up to us to do is being done, it’s been done. And all of our efforts to improve EBITDA there ongoing and they are [indiscernible] in the company. Now in terms of leverage or net debt over EBITDA ratio we are negotiating our debt position. We want to reduce our indebtedness by telling [ph] assets. And any asset that will be sold it will certainly bring more cash to the company. And then we will be able to have more reserves that will be paid out in the form of dividend. I believe that next year or about next year we will pay out dividends. But all of the other factors have to be in place for us to be able to pay out dividends.

Operator

Operator

[Interpreted]. [Operator Instructions]. Our next question comes from Victor Penna from Banco do Brasil. You may proceed.

Victor Penna

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Good afternoon, everyone. I would like to know what is the debt percentage that you were working for the milling segment, and I think that the sales of assets is higher than what has been anticipated by the company. And in terms of our industrial capacity I know that you are working towards optimizing costs etcetera. The second question is about the rollout of the debt and whether the company another organization or whether you are looking at that matures in 2016?

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Victor, thank you. I will start with your second question about the debt. The bulk of the debt matures 2016 and ‘17 and we already initiated the rollout. And in this case, we could achieve further improvements in ‘17 but most part of our homework is done. Could you repeat your first question because it was very difficult for us to understand.

Victor Penna

Analyst

[Interpreted]. My first question is about your percentage of utilization of capital and in case your sale of asset is made concrete if you’re considering the appreciation of what’s happened in some other peers in the industry and how do you want to work with your operating expenses?

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Okay, thank you for your question. We are working at full capacity in our Presidente Vargas mill. Our strategy, as we said, is to use our competitors [ph] both domestically and abroad. I mean, towards exports. And we have a cost differential as well, they can benefit us abroad. Given our cost differential we are still operating in sales both in the domestic market but we are also privileging exports to the export market.

Victor Penna

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you very much.

Operator

Operator

[Interpreted]. Our next question is from Eduardo Lima from HSBC. You may proceed.

Eduardo Lima

Analyst

[Interpreted]. My question is about both.

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Eduardo, I apologize but I cannot hear your question.

Eduardo Lima

Analyst

[Interpreted]. I’m sorry, so I will repeat. My question is about the Volta Redonda. There is a lawsuit in the environment here and also a term of conduct that may hinder the operation of the trends. What is the status of that case and what are the other implications stemming from that process?

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you. This is a subject that was covered by the press recently and this is an important subject. Currently in all of, we are operating at Volta Redonda and we are doing everything we can as we overcome that issue. We are in the final stages of negotiations with authorities [indiscernible]. And once the situation is settled the market will be notified.

Eduardo Lima

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Okay.

Operator

Operator

[Interpreted]. Next question from Julia [indiscernible] Securities. You may proceed.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Good afternoon. And thank you. I would just like to have an idea, you had over BRL58 million this quarter and it went to BRL184 million. What was that referred to and what is being financed?

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you. I will have to get back to you. You are talking about related parties and there was a difference from one year to another, it’s part of our cash management. And we have to consider CSN in Brazil and abroad, there are several companies. So I will have to get back to you, giving you more specific details that would probably help clarify your question.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

[Interpreted]. Our next question comes from Mr. Carlos Alba from Morgan Stanley. You may proceed.

Carlos Alba

Analyst

Yes, thank you very much. I just had a couple of questions. The first one is, can you give us a rough idea of the EBITDA proton that you’re making on [indiscernible]. And second is, if the big efforts and subsequently how are you reducing cost [indiscernible]. Would that maybe in ways reduce the lack of mine of the operation or how should we think about any potential impact on the long-term? Thank you.

Luis Fernando Barbosa Martinez

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Carlos, this is Martinez. The net margin we have in our export sales for galvanized products for the forward market is around 12% to 17%. That’s approximate of it.

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Could you please repeat the second part of your question please?

Carlos Alba

Analyst

Sure. Yes, it’s just about in the proportional impact the cost reduction efforts that you are doing in Casa de Pedra could you have on the life of mine of the operation. And how we should think about that?

Daniel dos Santos

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Just a second please. This is Daniel Santos. As I’ve had several times in the past, we do not do high-grading all of the improvements, are related to the high quality of our assets. We still have great amount of product in the ports and the mining plan. Our long-term mining plan is very favorable and it favors the quality of production and high production. And we are also deploying great improvements in our process. We just introduced a new reagent unit for floatation, we also improved magnetic separators. So we are investing a lot in processes. So, having high quality or with active feet planned with new processes, with all of that we are eligible to continue offering high quality products, Casa de Pedra will have many processes and all of these process help us transform the ore into high quality products. And with that we can keep our exploration at sustainable levels. And costs which are continuously being reduced and through our efforts to reduce expenses on high productivity, we are keeping up to speed.

Operator

Operator

[Interpreted]. Our next question is from Marco from Itau BBA. You may proceed.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

[Interpreted]. In fact this Carlos. And my question is about your cash position. It was $1.2 billion last quarter, and so I would like to know, what will be the strategy of the company vis-à-vis your operations abroad and your position?

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you. Yes, in the third quarter we managed $1.2 billion in investments abroad for Brazil. And the closing position in September, our cash position in dollars was $1.1 billion whereas 70% of our cash position denominated in dollar and Namisa accounted for $995 million. We put together a complete hedging structure and efficiency structure for that nationalization up to this point, this amount of $1.2 billion that was part of our plan. But we have no guidance concerning what will happen in the fourth quarter.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

[Interpreted]. As there are no further questions, I would like to give the floor back to Mr. Gustavo Sousa, Controllership, Tax Planning and IR Executive Officer for his final remarks.

Gustavo Sousa

Analyst

[Interpreted]. Thank you all very much for joining this conference call this afternoon. If you have any additional questions, please speak to our IR Department.

Operator

Operator

[Interpreted]. Thank you very much. CSN conference call is now over. I wish you all a very good day. Thank you.