SFRRF (SFRRF) Q4 2026 Earnings Report, Transcript and Summary

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Sandfire Resources FY '26 Financial Results Conference Call [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Brendan Harris, Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director. Please go ahead.

Thank you, and hi, everyone. Welcome to our results call for the 2026 financial year. Our executive team is here with me today for the Q&A, which we'll get to after Megan has taken you through our financial results, and Jason has provided an update on our exploration program that spans Spain, Portugal, Botswana and South Australia now that we're on the ground in the Curnamona doing the work needed to confirm the value proposition for our exciting copper gold project, Kalkaroo. I should also note that our President exploration, Scott Thomas, joins us for the Q&A, and he's looking forward to discussing the growing success of our infill extension and regional drilling program and the mineralized systems we've intercepted at MATSA and Motheo that are highly encouraging. But before we start, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we stand, the Whadjuk people of the Noongar Nation, as well as the First Nation people of the lands on which we conduct our business. We pay our respects to their elders and leaders past, present and emerging. As always, we'll start with safety. As I mentioned in our call in July, our TRIF declined incrementally to 1.6 at 30 June, a level that compares very favorably with global benchmarks. Yet despite this, it was also our most difficult year, as we reported our first ever fatality when our 34-year-old colleague, Ivan Manuel Vazquez Garrido from Construcciones Mary was fatally injured at Magdalena mine on the 25th of February. We must continue to believe it's possible to have a workplace that is injury-free where systems, processes and culture come together to ensure, even the lowest probability, high consequence risks are understood, identified, controlled every hour of every day, 365 days a year. And it goes without saying that belief will never be enough, we have to do the work, which, in our case, is covered by 3 very distinct and interconnected work streams. The continued refinement and embedment of our systems and processes, further strengthening our critical controls via our principal hazards program at work. The infill training we're undertaking, which we refer to as our Don't Walk Past program at work that's designed to reinforce behavioral expectations for all employees and contractors, which in turn connects with the psychological safety training we have underway that define the shared accountability we all have to create a working environment where everyone feels safe to speak up and intervene whenever something just doesn't look or feel right irrespective of the team members' seniority or title. That's because nothing will ever be more important than the health and well-being of our people. With that, I'll hand over to Megan to walk you through our record financial results, increasingly strong balance sheet and the confidence we have in our business, which collectively underpinned our Board's decision to declare our first dividend in more than 4 years. Megan, over to you.

Thank you, Brendan, and good morning to everyone on the call. I'm pleased to present our financial results for FY '26. As Brendan touched on, we have delivered record operating and financial results for the year, underpinned by robust operating performance across the business and buoyant commodity markets. We have delivered record sales revenue of $1.7 billion and underlying EBITDA of $867 million for a more than threefold increase in underlying profit to $350 million and a statutory profit of $354 million. Digging deeper, at Motheo, underlying operations EBITDA increased by 45% to $461 million at a 62% margin as the operation capitalized on strong commodity markets and low TC/RCs. The operation achieved record mill throughput of 6.1 million tonnes for record copper equivalent production of 59,700 tonnes in financial year '26. This has allowed the operation to continue realizing economies of scale benefits, albeit also experiencing a 16% increase in underlying operating unit costs to $46 per tonne or within 5% of annual guidance of $44 per tonne, primarily driven by the transition of the higher-cost A4 mine from development into production, a significant increase in price-linked royalties and higher power fuel prices. Notwithstanding these pressures, Motheo remained highly cost competitive, achieving an implied C1 unit cost of $1 a pound across FY '26. At MATSA underlying operations EBITDA increased by 71% to $499 million at a 55% margin, primarily driven by higher commodity prices and lower TC/RCs, which more than offset a modest increase in underlying operating costs, primarily associated with the strengthening of the euro when measured against the U.S. dollar for an underlying operating unit cost of $89 per tonne also within 5% of annual guidance. Despite these pressures, our valuable byproducts of silver, zinc and lead ensured MATSA remained highly cost competitive achieving an implied C1 unit cost of $0.88 per pound of copper across financial year '26. Below the line, our D&A expense of $318 million was broadly consistent with last year. Our underlying net finance expense of $19.6 million decreased from $44 million in financial year '25, reflecting the full repayment of debt during the year and transition to a net cash balance of $353 million at 30 June 2026. Our underlying income tax expense increased to $178.9 million reflecting the significant improvement in the group's profitability for an underlying effective tax rate of 34%. The group's underlying effective tax rate continues to be impacted by the limited ability to recognize benefits associated with tax losses in Australia and the U.S.A. It should also be noted that the government of Botswana enacted new tax legislation effective from the first of July 2026, which includes a 2.5% increase in the minimum tax rate that can be applied and remove the upfront capital deduction for capital investment with our mine development expenditure will now be deductible at an annual rate equal to the greater of 100% of capital investment divided by the expected number of years of activity to which the expenditure relates or 10% per annum. Importantly, the increase in the minimum tax rate is not expected to have a significant impact on Motheo given the profitability of the asset, whilst the removal of the upfront deduction for capital investment will not have a material impact over the life of mine following the completion of the capital intensity phase and utilization of all associated capital losses. Total expenditure across the group increased by 11% to $230.6 million as we commenced construction of our new tailings storage facility and procured mining equipment at MATSA, which is offset by a decrease at Motheo as we completed the A1 prefeasibility study, the ramp-up of the A4 open pit mine, the Stage 3 lift of our tailings storage facility and our plant debottlenecking project. We also invested $5.2 million at Kalkaroo primarily directed towards the establishment of site infrastructure and commencement of the planned 130-kilometer infill and extension drilling program. Our business and balance sheet have been fundamentally transformed across the last 2 years. We added a significant $750 million to our balance sheet over the past 2 years. finishing the year with a net cash balance of $353 million, demonstrating the cash-generating capability of our quality operations for our shareholders. Our positive operational and financial outcomes have enabled our Board to declare a fully franked final dividend of AUD 0.35 per share in respect of financial year '26. This decision has been made in accordance with our unchanged capital management framework, which considers the cash-generating capability of our assets, our expected payments in the September quarter and the maintenance of a cash buffer, which will allow the group to navigate geopolitical uncertainty while preserving capacity to invest in the business and pursue value-accretive growth opportunities, all with confidence. With that, I'll hand over to Jason to give a summary of the updated mineral resource and ore reserve estimates and the exploration results we released to the market this morning.

Thank you, Megan. I'm pleased to provide a summary of our updated mineral resource and ore reserve estimates which we released today, as well as some exciting new exploration drill results at both MATSA and Motheo. Starting with our resource and reserve update and at MATSA, the update today reflects our team's deep and growing knowledge of the mineral systems at MATSA, which has been built upon a foundation of disciplined technical evaluation of historical data, new geophysical surveys and our ongoing infill and extension drilling program. We have added 3.9 million tonnes of new reserves before mining depletion, building on our strong track record of converting resources to reserves. And at Motheo, the updated resource and reserve estimates reflect our strong understanding of geological controls of economic mineralization in this highly prospective belt. We're particularly pleased to have declared a maiden ore reserve for A1, which has more than offset mining depletion across the complex. The maiden A1 reserve of 5.6 million tonnes at 0.91% copper and 7.4 grams per tonne silver, provides approximately 1 year of additional life at Motheo. The planned development of this resource buys more time for our team to build upon the exciting exploration results that I will talk you through shortly as we seek to establish a minimum of 15 years reserve life for this high-margin mining complex. I'm also pleased to announce exploration drilling results for a number of near-mine exploration prospects at both MATSA and Motheo. Starting with MATSA exploration drilling at Magdalena West continues to evaluate the potential for extensions to the Masa 2 West mineralized system and the Western extent of the Masa Olivo lens. We have completed a total of 46 near-mine exploration drill holes at Magdalena West, which has successfully identified mineralization up to 200 meters to the west of the new FY '26 resource boundary. Exploration drilling will continue to evaluate the continuity, distribution and the extent of mineralization within the Masa 2 West trend. Also at MATSA, we have confirmed a new high-grade polymetallic massive sulfide intersection at the La Juliana prospect near Aguas Teñidas. The prospect is located approximately 700 meters southeast of the Castillejitos ore body and was targeted following interpretation of a downhole electromagnetic anomaly identified from earlier drilling. Drilling results at La Juliana includes hole CCM 90 with a 14.4 meter intersection at 0.4% copper, 14.5% zinc, 4.4% lead, 0.6 grams per tonne gold and 158 grams per tonne silver. The prospective stratigraphic corridor remains underexplored over approximately 1 to 2 kilometers in strike length and warrants further evaluation as a very high-priority target. At Motheo, exploration drilling at the A1 deposit has continued to evaluate the down dip extensions of mineralization beyond the current resource and reserve footprint. 7 drill holes were completed north of the existing A1 resource with copper mineralization intersected in each of the 7 drill holes, indicating that the A1 system remains open beyond currently defined limits and continues to demonstrate potential for further growth. Follow-up drilling is planned to further test the continuity geometry and the extended mineralization within the Northern Extension area. And lastly, exploration drilling at A4 West has been designed to evaluate the prospectivity of copper mineralization associated with the contact between the D'Kar formation and the Ngwako Pan Formation or NPF for short. Three diamond drill holes were completed to test the continuity of historically identified mineralization located approximately 800 meters west of the A4 deposit. Copper mineralization was intersected in drill hole A4DD318, which included 19 meters at 1.1% copper and 9.5 grams per tonne silver, from 742 meters downhole. This supports the interpretation of a suitable host environment along the NPF contact for a potentially large mineral system and provides encouragement that this geological setting may represent an additional exploration opportunity adjacent to the existing A4 mine that has the potential to support a semi bulk underground mining operation that could substantially extend the life of Motheo. The exciting results that we've released today reinforce our confidence in the prospectivity of the Iberian Pyrite and Kalahari Copper Belt and the potential for new discoveries. Looking ahead to FY '27, we are planning to step up drilling by 27% to a planned 55 kilometers across the Iberian Pyrite and the Kalahari Copper Belts. In addition to this, we are excited by the strategic exploration alliance with Havilah Resources in the Curnamona Province, where despite recent heavy rainfall, the Havilah team recently commenced drilling at the Brooks Dam prospect. At Kalkaroo, our project team has made a great start in establishing infrastructure required for drilling and pre-feasibility study activities. The team commenced the circa 130-kilometer drilling program during the period. And since this time, access to the site has been significantly impacted by rainfall in the region. However, we are looking forward to executing the largest drilling campaign on this exciting deposit since its discovery. I'd like to thank our talented exploration projects and technical teams for their dedicated -- dedication and tenacity in producing these exciting results. And with that, I'll hand back to Brendan.

Yes. Thanks, Jason, Megan. You both had obviously a great 12 months and there's so much to be proud of as we enter the 2027 financial year from a position of strength. Looking ahead, I'm sure everyone's seen we've now provided our full suite of usual guidance for the coming year extending to cost and capital expenditure. Importantly, the numbers aligned with prior commentary. Production guidance is unchanged. Operating unit costs for both MATSA and Motheo are expected to be $1 per tonne higher year-on-year at $90 and $47 per tonne of ore processed, respectively, with both assets operating at less than $1 per pound of payable copper on a C1 basis. Similarly, total capital expenditure is expected to increase to $299 million, marginally below the circa 1/3 increase we flagged in July. Of course, these funds are being invested wisely. With the year-on-year differential largely accounted for by the $51 million we intend to invest at Kalkaroo, which Jason just spoke to, where as he mentioned, we believe we have created one of the best risk/reward equations in the industry. But there are and can be no shortcuts to unlock the potential of this project, we have to do the work. And as you can expect, there will be a steady stream of news flow over the next 12 months once we get back on the ground and the rigs are spinning. Separately, I should note that the planned increase in deferred waste stripping at Motheo represents another temporary peak in the profile with the level of development expected to fall sharply again in FY '28 as depicted on Slide 29 of our investor slide deck. From a discretionary perspective, we have another aggressive year of exploration planned for FY '27 with an unrelenting focus on the drill bit in the Iberian Pyrite and Kalahari Copper Belt and the Curnamona Province, as we strive to define the 15 years of reserve life that we crave. And finally, I can confirm that the strategic review of our 87% interest in Sandfire America, which, of course, owns 100% stake of the Black Butte project is very well advanced, and we expect to provide a formal update before the end of the current quarter. So in summary, we have the talented people, we have 2 increasingly well-positioned assets producing the commodities the world needs at the right time. Our balance sheet is strong. We're returning excess capital to shareholders in the form of a fully franked dividend and over the next 12 to 18 months, we've got the opportunity to better define and unlock what we believe to be one of, if not, the best copper and gold development opportunity in Australia. With that, let's go to questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from Mitch Ryan with Jefferies.

And my question relates to Slide 22 and 28 of your presentation deck, where you've outlined production targets out to FY '29. They're relatively flat at each asset. Can you just talk to the error bars around those targets? What opportunities do you see in the business to materially increase those profiles above what you've talked to in those slides?

Mitch. Look, very good question. I think we've provided these profiles out to sort of back in to '29 previously. And of course, I think what you'll notice is that nothing's changed other than the prices that are used to actually create a copper equivalent figure, a metal equivalent number. So again, a good story for us. And it's easy to get that only around 12 to 18 months ago, having done a lot of work through the optimization of Motheo, we brought forward substantial amount of metal production, and filled the gap that was based in the original feasibility study. And so again, that is built into those numbers. But the error band, looked truthfully, it's been very clearly espoused to me by some of our larger shareholders that it wasn't customary to use point estimates and that providing some sort of a range actually reflects just the inherent risk in the business, that's all those ranges represent. The midpoints are still effectively a good indication of how we see the P50 equation playing out. At the moment at Motheo, I think it is fair to say that we have some scope in terms of throughput capacity. But we're not of a view that at the moment, it makes sense for us to run that hard or harder than the sort of 5.6 million tonne per annum optimized rate because if anything, it means that we can focus on recovery. We can make sure we maximize the value of every tonne that we put through the mill. And of course, in the event of any, I guess, outcomes that are beyond our control, such as rain or weather or other factors, we have some surge capacity, and we think that's a good way to run that business. Now of course, if some of the things play out as we're hoping, and Jason sort of touched on some of those in terms of the exploration potential, and start to give us that real confidence in the longevity beyond the current defined reserve limits, and pushes out towards our 15 years, I think it's fair to say that we have that capacity to really question whether there is incremental opportunity at Motheo and I'd call it virtually free in terms of the capacity we could bring on and is somewhat proven. MATSA, again, easy to underestimate that the team has done an incredibly good job over recent years to prove the nameplate capacity of that plant. And you'll see in the numbers this year, we're really pushing hard to make sure we're matching both the mine and the mill at those expanded or capacity type rates. And for us, that's a really good story. The most important thing for us is consistency and predictability. Yes, it's always nice to have growth in the business, but volatility is actually, I think, the biggest issue on a rating and the way our market prices and equity. So for us, it's more important to prove that we can be consistent and predictable and manage our costs, maximize margin, feed that through to our balance sheet and return excess capital to shareholders if we can't find better ways to put that money to work. So I hope that helps, Jason, anything you'd like to add to that?

The only thing I would add to that is really just reinforcing the stability aspect that Brendan was talking about. If you look at it, and Brendan mentioned it before, this guidance or that outlook out multiyear is consistent with prior years, and that does reflect that we do have quite a robust and annual planning cycle. And what we're seeing at the moment with a lot of our infill drilling, particularly at MATSA, our understanding of the ore body at both MATSA and Motheo, it's really giving us a robust optimized sort of 3- to 5-year plan out in front of us. And then a lot of the things that Brendan was talking about there, particularly around near mine exploration, it really starts to bring in optionality, right, to bring in a higher-value ore sources should they present themselves, which is really important for us. The only other point I would make is we do have a very active business improvement philosophy and approach here. We do think and we are doing a lot of work on options to lift recoveries further at both of our assets. And that's the one thing, and I touched on that back at the quarterly is that we see, particularly at Motheo and also at MATSA, that value proposition and we see particularly elevating our recovery is an area that we can add value for the future.

And just my second question, just around the capital management framework, obviously, a very strong dividend, which is clearly people have liked. But just wanted to understand what the board has sort of arrived at in the net cash position as I think that the company should retain going forward? And any color you could give on that would be appreciated.

Look, one thing I'll just state before I hand to Megan, just at the highest sort of order is, we in no way have a philosophy of sort of desiring that should be hit one a day. We just want to be known for being very disciplined with the way in which we think about capital, the way we allocate it, the types of, if you like, opportunities that we'll cherish like Kalkaroo, where as I mentioned, we think the structure -- so Kalkaroo is a fantastic project opportunity. The structure of the deal is what makes it great. It makes it great, both in terms of the potential it provides for us, but also Havilah. And that win-win is actually, we think, what's going to work, hopefully, very, very well for our shareholders. So I'd just make that overriding statement. It's about the long-term disciplined allocation of capital that matters for us. Megan?

Thanks, Brendan, and thanks for the question, Mitch. And probably just to start with, there's no change to our capital management framework that we published for the first time about a year ago. In terms of the consideration that the Board worked through in arriving at a dividend of AUD 0.35 per share. Clearly, we're in a strong net cash position at the end of June with $353 million net cash balance. And there was also a contemplation of financial year '27 quarter 1 upcoming payments that tend to be a bit seasonal in nature. So you've got your bonus payment, you've got insurance premiums and a number of sort of seasonal payments that tend to occur in Q1. So we've taken that into account. We've also been consistent in expressing our desire to maintain a robust balance sheet and that targeted net cash position. But given current geopolitical uncertainty, we've also maintained a little bit more of a cash buffer and we've taken that into account in contemplating what was an appropriate amount to return to shareholders. And so $353 million net cash with that dividend, we'll still be maintaining an appropriate prudent net cash buffer going into financial year '27 to ensure that we can confidently continue to invest in our business across our exploration portfolio and the opportunities that lie within and doing so in a way that we aren't risking the balance sheet. I should note, just in closing, we still maintained USD 226 million of franking credits available to support further efficient distribution.

Yes. Thanks, Megan. And maybe just Mitch, a couple of things that I might add. So Megan mentioned those franking credits. It's easy to forget those franking credits diminish in value in real terms every day, they start on our balance sheet. So we think it's a prudent decision given we've got the capacity to start directing them back to our shareholders. But please make no mistake that we believe very strongly that our shareholders would prefer that we prioritize the growth of our business into what is a marketplace, that is going to demand units, but it's about finding the right units at the right price that have an ability to deliver an excess return for our shareholders. And so having built that additional buffer that Megan talked to, given the economic climate, what we've shown you above that level is we are very happy to give excess capital to shareholders, return it as long as there's an effective way and efficient way to do so. And I think that's really what people should focus on is that is our intention. We've said that for 3 years now. We don't believe in building just a war chest on a balance sheet. That's not our philosophy. If we can't use capital and our shareholders have the ability to put that to work and generate an excess return. That's what should happen. If and when down the track, we have an opportunity to invest and the return is compelling. We should go back to our shareholders and have a conversation. So there's no change to that view. And hopefully, that helps. But we're not going to be a company that's going to define a payout ratio. I understand there are people who would like that. But if you think about the fact set of Sandfire and the way that our balance sheet works, the way our earnings and cash flows are generated, the jurisdictions in which they're generated, what that means in the fullness of time for franking, it wouldn't be financially rational for us to do so. Of course, going back to that point of primacy that we believe that there is demand from our shareholders for us to look for opportunities to grow the business.

Your next question comes from James Redfern with RBC.

Congratulations on a strong result and nice dividend. We covered the dividend in detail. So I think we're good there. Maybe just ask about Black Butte in the strategic review. In the event that Sandfire does decide to divest its stake in Black Butte, is it reasonable to assume that the sale proceeds may be used to pay a special dividend to shareholders?

James, look, great question. And forgive me, I'm going to be really quite short on this one. Sandfire America is a publicly listed company. It's not appropriate for me to speculate one way or another as to where this process is going to land. All I'd say to you is that you can assume that we will continue to be very disciplined with all of the decisions we make, and we would always be very disciplined how we think about capital on our balance sheet that is in excess of our requirements. So apologies for skirting the issue there, but I'm sure you can understand.

Maybe just one more on the dividend. Just not to belabor the point, but you mentioned that we're not going to have a -- or Sandfire is not going to have a defined payout ratio going forward. And the dividend will remain discretionary based on having a strong balance sheet and so on. But is there any other guide you can provide just in terms of forecasting dividends for us going forward, please?

Yes. Look, and I don't want to sound cute, but I was sort of thinking about this again this morning, and I think about some of the analysts that I sort of worked alongside close to 20 years ago when there was no such thing as guidance on anything. So I sort of reflect on these things a lot. We sit back and think deeply about just what's rational. And for us as a company being in the privileged position of being a producer supplying commodities into a world that's going to need more and more of what we produce every day is a good place to be. We should be aiming to build a business that can provide more of those units over time, which means we should be looking for opportunities to invest. It is just very hard to find those opportunities at the moment. And that is the reality. And we don't believe in just building a war chest because if we do that capital sits there and it diminishes in real terms every day in terms of value to our shareholders. Again, if there's an opportunity for people to invest to generate that excess return through time, it's better that they have the opportunity to do that. I think Megan has given you some really good guidance, and that is that whereas we've said historically, once we get to $1 of net cash. On the balance sheet, we'll look to return excess capital. The world has got quite a lot of uncertainty attached to it today. The geopolitical risk is certainly elevated as an example, whilst we're very confident at the moment in terms of the availability of fuel and supplies and general consumables for our business. With the conflict in the Middle East, things can change quickly. And so the fabric in the very short term could change quickly. So we've said quite openly that we think rough rule of thumb in the order of $300 million of additional capital on our balance sheet, i.e., net cash is a wise position to hold. Again, as we go above that, a decision every day. And obviously, particularly as you go to these milestones of results and half year reporting and so on. But as we move above that level, it's likely that we will consider that to be in excess of our needs unless there's a better use for those funds. So hopefully, that gives you something that you can work on from a spreadsheet perspective, but again, it's just not logical for us to provide a payout ratio.

Your next question comes from Paul Young with Goldman Sachs.

Look, a fair bit of information you provided today on exploration and resource and reserve updates, which is great. First observation is all the drilling, you've done over the last 12 months or so, just to say it doesn't look like it's been actually reflected yet in the resource and reserve, particularly in MATSA, for example, resources on Magdalena have gone backwards a little bit or decline a little bit. So first question is around just the update on a go forward, I presume we have to wait another 12 months to see the drill results reflected in the resources at MATSA?

Yes. Look, very good observation, Paul. Jason reminds me every day because I get impatient that your R&R statement is sort of lagging by about 6 to 9 months, right? So you're really only seeing the results of 6 to 9 months ago coming into the R&R statement that you see today. And that's because you've got to build it right through your long-term planning cycle and obviously, how that then feeds into our statement. And you'll notice on the presentation, and I think it's really well illustrated that, for instance, in the deeps at Magdalena down depth, not only have we confirmed mineralization that extends beyond the limits of the current resource and reserve boundaries. But we've identified commercial intercepts of mineralization. So we know that the numbers are going to grow there. Obviously, as we can get on the ground, Paul, you get the Dalmacia surface locked away, which is really procedural the development drive across from Olivo and all of those things in between, we'll be out of pepper that ground. And so yes, there's already drill holes, which we are yet to incorporate in the statements and there's a lot of work to do to really fill that out. So yes, I hope that helps, Paul.

Yes, it does. So maybe a further question, just around just assessing some of the potential upside that Jason went through around talking through specifically at Motheo and the intercept depth at A4, which are really interesting. We've also got the high-grade zones at A1, although albeit that looks like it would be quite high strip and A1 is high strip. So -- and then La Juliana looks really interesting because that's very high grade, particularly on the zinc side. And Magdalena at depth, copper looks good and it looks actually quite like thinning out a little bit as you go deeper in Magdalena. But -- so I'm just curious around how you summarize actually the prospectivity here. And am I right by thinking that La Juliana and actually the results at A4 at depth are probably the most interesting.

Look, I'm going to throw to the team, and I'm really keen to get Scott on the call. But what I would say is that I think you're right, we're excited about the A4 underground. Jason will talk to that. The Juliana looks fascinating actually. And there's more to it. It's more than the grade that matters and Scott will talk to that. The only thing I'd say when you look at A1, you're right, the strip is higher, but it may be that you punch off the open pit and you've got good grade. The key thing for there is proving continuity. So I still think there's a lot of potential. What we haven't really talked about is we -- 6 months ago, it sort of goes back to your earlier question. We accelerated the infill and extension drilling at T3 and A4 that's underway now that's yet to be captured in any of this data as well. But maybe I'll throw it to Scott first off on the Juliana. It is one hole. So we're not wanting to dismiss that. But there are attributes and characteristics of that hole that really have -- Scott and the team -- just for those who don't know Scott, along with John Garrity, they're the chaps who took their knowledge from DeGrussa, one of the small sort of expat representative teams that went across there where we knew we needed real geoscientific skill and power. They have been in the underground remodeling the whole of that sequence across Magdalena, Aguas Teñidas, Sotiel, over the last number of years. Now obviously, we've promoted Scott to head up exploration globally. The key thing when he talks about Juliana, it's important. He understands these ore bodies. He actually understands the way that they present themselves probably in a way that not many people do. So Scott, over to you.

Thanks, Brendan, and thanks, Paul, for the question. When it comes to the Iberian Pyrite Belt and the Kalahari as well, we've always believed in the prospectivity that we have in those 2 regions and those 2 belts. And we have spent a fair bit of time over the last 12 months restructuring our geology group to include our near mine exploration underneath the exploration umbrella. And Brendan has said, we've doubled down on the drill bit. But the only reason we've been able to do that is because we do have that technical foundation in place now. And over the last few years at Magdalena, we spend a lot of time really trying to understand that ore body at both Aguas Teñidas and Magdalena -- and sorry, at MATSA, the lithology, the structural geology, the mineralization domains all that's been rebuilt from the ground up, which has really given us that platform to establish a really competitive and aggressive drill program in FY '26 that will continue into FY '27. When it comes to La Juliana, whilst it's a really good result for us, 14 meters, 14% zinc, 0.6% copper -- 0.4% copper, sorry. The really interesting bit for us is the mineral assemblage and the type of mineral species that we have there in those particular ratios. And what we generally see when we see that type of mineral assemblage is that it's actually part of a bigger system. So whilst that result on its own is quite encouraging. The fact that it's that type of mineral species in that setting, that's what's really driving a bit of excitement for us around that La Juliana prospect.

I think it is fair to say, Scott, that from your perspective, it's very rare to see such a large slab of sphalerite and galena that's not part of sort of the redox system that merges from zinc to lead to copper. It's unusual to see it unless it presents. And obviously, we've got the EM plate that we're yet to test.

Correct. So this intercept is built off a previous EM plate that we had, and we do know that drilling and EM in this part of the belt is very successful for us. But what Brendan is trying to allude to here is that when we see this mineral assemblage across this redox boundary, we generally see some copper speciation as well, on some higher-grade copper cores that are associated with a periphery of high-grade zinc.

So that's probably, I think, La Juliana, one hole, a lot of work to do. Just maybe quickly before we go to Jason on Magdalena down dip. I understand Paul's question around thinning, but you've got quite a different perspective. So maybe if you can just quickly summarize that.

Yes. At Magdalena and Aguas Teñidas, we generally see some pinching and swelling in those ore systems as well. So whilst we have seen some lower grades and some thinner intercepts, they are still commercial and we do have an untested EM plate as well, down plunge on the existing intercepts. So there's still a lot of information there to be excited about and encouraging for us as an exploration group.

So Paul, before we go to Jason, the key thing with Magdalena is we know now, we've confirmed that the mineralized system extends well beyond the limits of the defined resource and reserve. We haven't been able to test fully the area because of the Dalmacia. So the tenure above is yet to be, if you like, awarded to Sandfire. So we can't go and find an ore body beneath there and not hold the tenure. So we're hoping that, that should be resolved. It's sort of a day-by-day proposition, so that will start to open that up. Jason, just on A4 underground.

If we address your queries there, Paul, about Motheo, in particular in A4 and A1. Firstly, your observations are broadly correct. So if you look at it, we're very excited about the potential of our A4 West and a potential and as I mentioned in my speech earlier, the a potential sort of semi bulk underground concept there sitting below the A4 open pit. If you look at particularly what we're excited about, now while the grades are sitting around the 1% mark, it's the scale that this opportunity presents that's really interesting for us. So particularly, we're looking at intercepts around 20 meters, 20 meters plus in some sort of, in some cases, what it means for us is our tonnes per vertical meter from an underground mining opportunity is really elevated, particularly when you compare to other mines that are being mined in the belts using underground methods. And what that really does is potentially has a significant reduction in unit costs, as well as the ability to scale up and have potential to fill the mill at a 5 million to 6 million tonne per annum rate. So that's what we're looking at, at the moment. Scott and his team are finishing off their drilling program. We will assess those opportunities. And depending on the results, we'll look at whether that moves into a study phase or not. If I move on to A1, you're absolutely right. If you look at it, it is a high stripping ratio ore body already. With the down dip extensions, we expect that we will hit those open pit economic limits at some point in time. But with some of the grades that we're seeing, they are probably higher in tenor that we've seen anywhere else in the belt. So it does represent potential for a smaller scale, higher grade underground concept there towards the end of open pit mining at A1. So that's where our thinking is largely, but overall, very excited particularly about the A4 opportunities.

Yes. Okay. Very interesting. It requires another discussion. I think, just lastly, just more broadly. But just last one for me. That -- the hole of A4, is that your deepest hole on the -- in Botswana today?

No, it's not. So we have some further holes that are along strike or along trend. And if you look at it broadly as it moves -- as this zone moves towards the west from A4, it does get marginally deeper. So it is shallow plunging, right, but it is closer to surface and also closer to the base of the A4 open pit back towards West.

And maybe, Paul, just I'm cognizant, we've taken quite a bit of time, but I'm sure there's a lot of people who are interested in this. We wanted to do it justice. We are drilling literally as we speak. We're stepping back towards the boundaries of the pit, back towards where we know there's -- we already know we have a large sort of deeper NPF level of mineralization. We would expect to have results to talk to when we report our next quarterly results.

Your next question comes from Adam Baker with Macquarie.

Just maybe the MATSA resource update. I mean just the noticeable part there is the big uptick in resources at Sotiel about 17 million tonnes due to the improved plant recoveries, higher metal prices, which increased NSR. I guess, just how does this change your thinking about the satellite mine moving forward? I mean historically, it's done between 50 to 300 kt. Is it time to reevaluate things here? Or you're happy with how things are going at the moment on the back of this resource update.

We're always looking, Adam, as you'd imagine, as to how we optimize the overall sort of sequencing of these 3 mines that, of course, may in time be implemented by others. It's a complicated blending, if you like, matrix that the team is always looking to optimize I think the thing that's difficult in this is, of course, we've run the Hill of Value work. We've talked to you about that before. It's always trying to assess what delivers the best long-term value outcome for our shareholders, which is a combination of cash flow today versus longer-term opportunity and extension of life. I think the thing that complicates all of this is whether La Juliana or another sort of Castillejitos types opportunity. It's easy to forget we don't need a lot of high-grade material to create the sort of blending outcomes, which substantially increase life because we've got Sotiel. So Sotiel provides a really important sort of blending opportunity for us as we think about that life extension and moving towards 15 years. So there's probably not much more that we really want to add at this stage. I mean, we've talked to you before that we're unlikely to be the leader of trying to develop hydromet type technology and solutions for Sotiel. We're always monitoring that space and the developments in the region. But we don't feel we're seeing a lot of progress on that front. But again, I think it's just about how do we optimize this over time. Part of that is going to be heavily reliant on the sort of exploration results we see, both within the existing Magdalena and Aguas Teñidas footprint, but also some of these near-mine opportunities.

Just on the MATSA outlook for the 3 years at 89 to 99. Just looking at the past few years, I mean, we have had that kind of drop off in copper metal output. Looking at midpoint of FY '27, it's about 52 Kt copper in FY '25, that was about 55, but obviously, we've had that offsetting by the increase in zinc. I'm just trying to understand, I guess, how this trend is continuing moving forward. Are we still going to get an increase in zinc metal contribution out to FY '29? Or is this the kind of level that we're seeing in FY '26, where -- sorry, in FY '27 forecast expected in this new outlook?

Thank you, Adam. Good question again. Look, we expect at this stage, relatively steady, perhaps slightly better as we move towards the back of the profile. So now, that trend we don't expect to continue. Look, I might just add because we typically get asked about the production profile also within the year. Just to reiterate that we expect production to be more evenly spread across the quarters. So I think what that really is illustrative of is that comment we've made a number of times now that we are better set up operationally across our mining complex, whether it be in Botswana or Spain than we have been for 3 years. We've got more degrees of freedom at MATSA with Olivo and San Pedro in production. With A4 now deeply into the ore body, we've really opened up those high-grade zones across T3 and A4, so we're effectively ore bound for circa 24 months. So not only do we see a good steady profile out to the back end of this decade, but we see a lower risk profile barring something unforeseen, an event outside of our control, we see a lower risk profile for the business as we're entering '27 and going into '28. So the business is well positioned.

Your next question comes from Daniel Morgan with Barrenjoey.

Just on Motheo, Page 29 of the presentation shows a big drop in stripping in FY '28. I'm just wondering, based on the current reserves, which you've outlined today, what is the life of mine strip at the current time. I appreciate that this obviously will change over time, but what's the current strip?

Yes, I think it's, Jason, about 6, is it?

Yes. On the consolidated, it's about 6.5, just 6.5.

Yes. And so there hasn't been any material shift in -- now, we've remodeled. We've learned a lot around the ore bodies. But there are no material shifts in terms of how these things play through. We're always, as you know, hesitant to provide the stripping profile too far beyond 2 years. Because as you've seen already since we commenced that things happen in the business, we optimize and we make decisions as we should continually to maximize long-term shareholder value based on how circumstances have prevailed either at a point in time or over a period of time. So hopefully, that helps. I think it's an important chart for you to see how these things ebb and flow.

Yes, of course. And maybe just to that point, just in the reserve statements. It looks like you're using $4.50 a pound copper, $1.22 Zinc, and $40 an ounce silver, which one could argue is appearing more conservative by the day. Are the ore reserves -- how sensitive are they to these assumptions and if prices are higher. How do you make sure you retain the optionality?

Yes. Look, I'll pass over to Jason. Maybe just a couple of comments upfront. I mentioned earlier how we made the decision a few months back because we completed the A1 drilling, and we sort of had a bit of money in the kitty, and we had some drill rigs sitting around. So we actually chose to accelerate and bring forward the infill and extension drilling at T3 and A4. Part of that reason is basically wanting to make sure that we have drilling information earlier, given the lags I talked about earlier when answering one of Paul's question, such that as we think about price and the world is thinking about price to make sure we've got as much information as we need to ensure that we can optimize our plans around that. And so it is something we are spending a lot of time thinking about. I'll pass to Jason because the -- if you like, the potential impacts of price are very different depending on the NSR itself of the blocks or the sequences we're mining. Maybe Jason, if you quickly go across the complex.

Yes. Building on that as well, Brendan is right, it depends on the nature of the ore body and particularly the amount of low grade or low NSR material that kind of sits on the periphery of a lot of these ore bodies. And it also is influenced by our mining methods. So if I step through underground selective mining methods at both at MATSA, there's limited impact there at Magdalena because it's -- overall, it's a high NSR high-margin ore body. So we don't see it overly sensitive to increases in pricing assumptions. This is where Aguas Teñidas and Sotiel are different, in that they have more stock work material and low NSR material available sitting outside or beyond our existing mining boundaries. So there is more of an impact at Aguas Teñidas, there's certainly a large impact to be had there when you see our resource to reserve conversion at Sotiel but it depends on the pricing there. And particularly, we start to see it on our sensitivity mine plans that we actually look at, we see there, there's real interest or potential increase of $5.50 or getting close to $6 at Sotiel. If I go to Motheo, Motheo, it's likely to impact T3 and A4 by increasing the strike length of those 2 open pits. And Brendan touched on there. We've actually been doing a lot of drilling work to promote inferred resources in these areas, so we can progressively bring them in over time. And we've already done the conceptual life of mine plans there that we do know when we need to make those decisions, at what point in mine life as well. At A1, I think A1, I touched on it before, it's already high strip ratio. It will depend on the grade of the material that we're seeing down dip. I think there's scope to increase that pit size somewhat, but probably more likely will transition to an underground concept if there's continuity of ore further down.

Your next question comes from Tim Hoff with Canaccord.

It's been a really good one around MATSA. Perhaps a really simple one there, you've got a significant resource base as that converts to reserves. At what point or is there a point that you'd actually look to that and say it needs an expansion to be able to process that volume of material?

Thanks, Tim. Look, yes, I've got a fairly simple answer to that one. We're working really hard to push towards this sort of arbitrary 15 years of life. For want of a better sort of answer, we believe that's where an asset moves into that sort of quasi long-life territory where your investors can have confidence that you're going to capture cycles and irrespective of shorter volatility deliver the long-term value proposition. The last thing we would want to do is to get to 15 years and then add capacity and actually end up back where we started. Now if we're really successful, as successful as we could hope to be and we start to see potential well beyond that. Of course, there are things that we can start to discuss and debate. But we're a long way from that. And I think one of the analysts, I think this morning made the point, some really nice information here, but there's a lot of work to do. And you'll probably notice in my speech, I talk about needing to do the work. We acknowledge there's a lot of work to do. We're seeing really encouraging results, but a lot of work yet to do to prove the 15 years of life, and we've got to prove that to ourselves and then we've got to convince you.

Yes, and keep those drill rigs spinning.

Keep them spinning.

Perhaps the other question is around TC/RCs. We saw them very negative at Motheo. Obviously, that's a historical sort of deal at MATSA. But what are your offtake partners sort of talking about at the moment, forward indications for this next year, how are things going?

Thanks for the question, Tim. So at MATSA, as you're aware, the concentrates is still subject to long-term offtake agreements. In respect to calendar year '26, those rates are locked in with copper TC/RCs at 0 and 0 and zinc at $85 a tonne. So that will prevail for the remainder of calendar year '26, while Motheo is fully exposed, i.e., not under long-term offtake. At Motheo, last quarterly, we provided some color around the progress under our recent sales tender, and through which we locked in effectively 70%, 80% of calendar year '26 sales and around 70% of calendar year '27 sales. Through that process, we've seen TCs come in the range of around, on average, minus $100 or thereabout a tonne for 2026 with a slight step down in 2027. Now there's still a portion of our concentrate for Motheo, let's call it 30% that will be subject to spot sales. And we are hearing of some favorable terms that are being secured in the market with some TC/RCs in the range of anywhere between minus $100 and minus $200 per tonne. And that gives us some flexibility and some options for our 2027 sales, which are at spot.

There are no further questions at this time. I'll now hand back to Mr. Harris for any closing remarks.

Look, apologies. I'm somewhat embarrassed that we've taken the full hour. I know it's a really busy time. I know some of the questions were answered with lengthy sort of discussions, but hopefully, in the areas that are of real interest to you. Really, really appreciate your time. We're looking forward to seeing many of you as we get out on the road over the next week or 2. We're presenting at Copper to the World and ADU next week. So we're looking forward to telling more of our story. But again, really appreciate all of the interest. I think we've had a good year, but humility is a really important thing for us here, and we're staying humble and focused on the basics, and we want to get better at those every day. Thanks again, everyone. Take care.

Thank you. That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.