Good afternoon and welcome to the Redwood Trust, Inc. Third Quarter 2021 Financial Results Conference Call. Today's conference is being recorded. I will now turn the call over to Lisa Hartman, Redwood's Senior Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, ma'am.

Thank you, operator. Hello, everyone and thank you for joining us. With me on today's call are Chris Abate, Redwood's Chief Executive Officer; Dash Robinson, Redwood's President; and Brooke Carillo, Redwood's Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin, I want to remind you that certain statements made during management's presentation with respect to future financial or business performance may constitute forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements are based on current expectations, forecasts and assumptions that involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially. We encourage you to read the company's annual report on Form 10-K, which provides a description of some of the factors that could have a material impact on the company's performance and could cause actual results to differ from those that maybe expressed in forward-looking statements. On this call, we may also refer to both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. The non-GAAP financial measures provided should not be utilized in isolation or considered as a substitute for measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with GAAP. A reconciliation between GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures are provided in our third quarter Redwood review available on our website at redwoodtrust.com. Also note that the content of this conference call contains time-sensitive information that is accurate only as of today. The company does not intend and undertakes no obligation to update this information to reflect subsequent events or circumstances. Finally, today's call is being recorded and will be available on the company's website later today. I will now turn the call over to Chris Abate, Redwood's Chief Executive officer, for opening remarks.

Thank you, Lisa and good afternoon everyone. After restored first half of the year, our team continued on our path towards transformative growth. After having communicated and ambitious second half of 2021 forecast, our third quarter results still managed to exceed our expectations. The entire organization has been energized to see the durability of our business model. As we produce strong financial results and risk adjusted portfolio returns. Our GAAP earnings were $0.65 cents per diluted share for the third quarter, and our GAAP book value increased 4.7% in the quarter to $12 per share at September 30. This contributes to an overall year-to-date increase in our GAAP book value of 21%, despite having raised our dividend each quarter of the year thus far. When combined our gap book value growth and dividends paid have resulted in a 27% economic return to shareholders year-to-date. Operationally speaking, you'll hear more from Dash and Brooke on our third quarter results. But suffice to say it was a very strong quarter, with several in-house records broken. I'm particularly proud of a series of strategic and innovative transactions across our firm that were both accretive to earnings and foundational for future operating progress. This included the first private label RMBS securitization to leverage blockchain technology, completed in collaboration with Liquid Mortgage and early Horizons investment partner. We also completed our first ever bridge loan securitization through our BPL platform, which provides a meaningful new distribution alternative to us. Next, our investment portfolio team co-sponsored the first ever securitization, backed entirely by residential home equity investments. And finally, these deals were rounded out by six new venture investments by RWT Horizons in the third quarter. I'm also pleased that after following strict health and safety protocols, we're able to successfully host our third investor day…

Thank you, Chris. And good afternoon, everyone. As Chris described, the third quarter was another prolific one across our platform with increases in purchase and origination volumes complemented by innovative work across technology and capital markets. Our teams are operating at a highly productive and sustainable level. As the foundation we have laid drives efficiency gains, and demand for our products remains robust. Notwithstanding the recent uptick in benchmark rates, excess capital in the markets is still in search of yield. We remain the partner of Choice for a whole loan and securities investors alike and continue to expand our distribution channels accretable to our capital efficiency and bottom line. Our third quarter results reflect continued execution of the strategic goals we laid out at the beginning of the year. As Chris referenced, we are seeing meaningful progress in a number of the initiatives that we presented at our recent investor day, both organically and through new investments and partnerships already bearing fruit. In this vein, we strive to innovate daily in addressing the issues facing the housing market, but also look to take advantage of our strategic positioning in the markets we serve to continue to grow profitably and sustainably. Our progress also underscores important realities about housing affordability and accessibility themes we focused on at Investor day. Housing Finance needs more creative solutions driven by technology, a common sense approach to underwriting and most importantly, leadership and bringing market constituents together in pursuit of common goals. During the third quarter, we took important steps in this direction. Our results reinforced this broader backdrop and the opportunity across our platforms to continue serving growing areas in housing. And the recent path of home prices, coupled with the evolution and consumer demand, and important trends in industry regulation, has created…

Thank you Dash. Our efforts to drive scale in our current businesses while executing on initiative to innovate and reimagine the industry drove another strong quarter financial results. We reported GAAP earnings of $0.65 cents per diluted share, representing a 27% annualized return on equity for the quarter, which significantly outpaced our dividend. As a result, book value increased $0.54 or 4.7% to $12 per share in the quarter. We had an outstanding 2021 to-date and are pleased to have built on the momentum from the first half of the year. We delivered our third consecutive dividend increase of 17% to $0.21 per share ahead of market expectations. We have consistently generated annualized economic returns in excess of 20% over the last five quarters. Our economic return spotlights not only the evolution of our dividend, but more importantly the expansion in our book value. Our results reflect the operating leverage of the platform. In the first nine months of the year, transaction volumes in our mortgage banking businesses have already surpassed the average annual volumes of the past several years. On a combined basis, our operating businesses generated an annualized after-tax operating return of 31% in Q3, they utilized roughly $450 million of average capital, or 30% of our total allocated capital that produced two-thirds of our adjusted revenue for the quarter. As a reminder, these earnings can be retained in the business, driving the differential between the nearly 5% increase in book value and 2% increase contributed from the investment portfolio. This underscores our ability to create organic capital, which we've been continuing to convey to the market. The residential mortgage banking team generated a 26% after-tax operating return on capital during the quarter. Income from mortgage banking activities net was $12 million higher than the second quarter as…

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Bose George with KBW.

Hey, everyone, this is actually Mike Smith on for Bose. Just a couple of policy questions around the mortgage bank. First is there anything in either two bills that could negatively impact the housing market or the demand for BPL Capital maybe changes to operating profits real estate capital gains depreciation, things like that?

We're obviously looking at that Mike. Thanks for the question. I think our preliminary sense is that it probably will not have a huge impact on those things. And obviously, we'll have to see how those evolves. But at the moment, we're not anticipating any material impacts.

Yes, there is a contemplated corporate tax change, which would impact our tax rate effective for our TRS, which would be expected to be a small impact, I mean, do have deferred tax assets there that could have a small benefit. But it's something that we're still monitoring at this time.

Great, that's helpful. And then a lot of non-bank lenders have raised their conforming loan limits ahead of the FHFA announcement later in November, as this had any impact on 4Q volumes? And then just as a follow-up to that could a larger than expected increase in the conforming loan limits have any impact on your jumbo guide for 2022?

Thanks for the question. At this point, we're not giving any specific guidance forward guidance on volumes for 2022. But we do expect a very significant increase in conforming loan limits anywhere between 15% or 20% for many metros possibly higher. For us, those are very much statistically driven. And we've worked with loan limits for many, many years, we don't expect it to significantly impact our business. It's really a reflection of the growth in housing market. It's something that I think the entire market has been grappling with, with affordability, and just accessibility for homes. So overall, we're certainly expecting a very large increase and planning for that. But at this point, we haven't had or experienced any meaningful effect on volumes.

Our next question comes from the line of Stephen Laws with Raymond James.

Good afternoon. Dash maybe I want to start with Choice one of the slides from the investor day a month ago that I thought was interesting was how underserved the 660 to 720 FICO bracket is versus the amount of volume that was done in that FICO range, even just five years ago. Can you talk about what you're looking at to get more uptake there and the opportunity that's ahead with that product?

Sure. Thanks, Steven. We like that slide a lot too, because we think it tells a pretty powerful story about the opportunity. Choice was about 10% of our locks this quarter. I would say that our flow, volume and Choice was up about 25%, quarter-on-quarter from Q2, which I think is a helpful thing to know, because it reflects the fact that from our perspective, the adoption is beginning to pick up. Like I said in my prepared remarks, and we have large Choice loans with over 100 sellers at this point. There is still from a residual perspective, certainly some things that no loan officers have been focused on, obviously, non-owner occupied loans have been a big story, as well, in terms of the suspension of those caps. And we think the adoption is going well, it just is going to take some time. Clearly rates have ticked up here. And we expect Choice adoption and demand to continue to go up. We're ready for it, which is the most important part. Given how many sellers we've locked loans with at this point. And we're optimistic about the prospects. And like I said, the increase in flow purchases for Choice quarter-on-quarter are something that we are pretty pleased with.

Great. And then Brooke, I wanted to touch on financing costs, you guys have really done a great job growing interest income almost 20%, right at 20% from a year ago, and your interest expense is roughly flat, you've been able to lower that. And I think you talked at the investor day about finding ways to turn loans faster. How much more room is there to increase the efficiency of financing and really expand that NIM from a net interest income standpoint?

Yes, it's a good question. So thank you for noticing me. We had guided last quarter that specifically, we thought there was some room particularly in the bridge asset class within our BPL business. We did execute our first securitization of that asset class this year or this quarter particularly, which definitely improved our terms bosonic cost and advanced rate basis. In addition to that, we are focused on our warehouse clients and our other facilities. And that, in aggregate lowered our cost of funds, particularly for BPL by 20 basis points, which we mentioned, it had about a $2.5 million improvement in our overall NIM on the quarter. We continue to find an explore innovative financing structures across our business, but in general, looking across our recourse debt, with a paydown at 3% cost of funds, we feel pretty good about where our financing stands relative to the health of the capital markets more broadly. And then Dash do you want to add anything to that.

I would just say that the benefit of the bridge securitization that Brooke articulated, that close late in the third quarter, so there will be some incremental benefit there as well. And we do expect to use structures like that, more and more going forward. That deal has a pretty unique feature that allows us over a 30-month period to replenish, so it's efficient in and of itself. But as the business evolves, we expect to use more of that going forward. And for the fourth quarter, that particular structure will have more of an impact, because the closing still waiting Q3.

Great. And Chris will save the hard question for you. But a lot of things going on and a lot of ways you guys have been able to move the needle, whether it's the call gains or lowering the financing costs, you've now got the AGIs that was talked about. I could list another half dozen things. But when you sit back and think about what the big opportunities are in the next 12 months, if you were to take that one-year timeframe, which is kind of how we look at the stock. What are the things you're most excited about, that you think can be accomplished in the next 12 months?

Well, I think across the platforms, we've got great momentum, we spoke about a plan in September at our investor day. And we're very focused on executing that plan. When you look at resi, Dash mentioned Choice, when we think about our operating margins, and how much more efficient we are now than we were even a year ago, we plan to carry that momentum into the next year, which should hopefully continue to result in durable margins. I think with AGIs that's a very exciting evolution of our business. That's a purely non-agency space where we can really I think, lend a lot of expertise from a structuring standpoint, and from a scaling standpoint, to these originators, particularly Point. And we layer in BPL, which continues to be a significant area of growth for us a best-in-class platform. Both bridge and SFR volumes have been very strong, closings have been strong. And unlike the residential business where the fourth quarter, you typically see some seasonally slow volumes across the industry. And BPL, it's a big quarter for us for the team. So we plan to carry that momentum into next year, and really execute on the plan, as I said that we laid out. But we're going to continue to innovate, we're going to continue to be first movers in our markets. Horizons will continue to grow and be a bigger part of what we do. So it's we've got a lot in-store for 2022.

Great, appreciate all of your comments this evening, and look forward to watching the continued execution in the future.

Our next question comes from the line of Eric Hagen with BTIG.

Hey, good afternoon. So the increase in net interest income from investments, I think the resi investments of almost $9 million quarter-over-quarter, is there a way to tease that apart? What drove the increase? You may have said it in your opening remarks, Brooke, but what was one time and what's a good depiction of the yield in the portfolio at this point?

Sure. So, the various components of NIM that drove that $12 million increase, but $9 million, which you're talking about, approximately $5 million of that was related to revenue just in terms of the higher discount accretion income on our available for sale securities. And those were all Sequoia related because those are what constitutes our AFS securities. And so, going forward, we expect that to be of similar magnitude, as I mentioned in the prepared remarks, we are running those securities to call rather than maturity for near and medium term calls for which we have a high visibility around NIM, which will really just bring our GAAP yields more in line with our expected economic yield over the rest of the anticipated life if it's securities. And so we will see that, at least in terms of being run rate for the next number of quarters. As I mentioned, we have $1.2 billion of called expected for 2022. And so you'll continue to see that accretion realized, it might be a little bit higher, heading into the beginning of next year when a lot of our core activity is concentrated, and then trailing off as we head into 2023. So that you can anticipate is kind of run rate in NIM and then same with the lower cost of funds, some of our commentary there, part of that is related to more on BPL sides in resi. And the rest was really related to higher loan and inventory to hit into the quarter, which is reflective of volume. And just given our projections heading not necessarily for the fourth quarter but heading into 2022 it's fair to include that as run rate as well. The other thing that impacted resi specifically, in terms of NIM this quarter was central outperformance, and that will vary with market.

Got it, that's helpful. Can you share how the profile of loans that you're sourcing from Churchill are different from [indiscernible] versus organically?

Sure, I can take that. Like we've talked a bit about before. That particular channel, at least for now, has been focused on some of the smaller balance types of loans within bridge or single family rental. As you know, our core products that we originate directly through CoreVest, on the single family rental side tend to be a little bit larger nature cross collateralized five and 10 year maturities. Our bridge suite of products is very differentiated includes built to rent, across collateralized lines of credit for larger sponsors, that particular acquisition channel, it certainly may evolve, the markets very vibrant, as you know, and things are really evolving. But we're focused there on generally smaller balance bridge loans, backed by maybe one to two homes. And then single-family rental loans which tend to be 30-year maturity. So a little bit of a different structure than what we typically produce directly through CoreVest. There's great capital markets demand for those and those have been really nice complements to our core direct production, and allows us to acquire those frankly, more efficiently, where we can outsource some of the fulfillment still do all the underwriting of course, but it's been a good complementary channel so far.

Our next question comes from the line of Steve Delaney with JMP securities.

Hi, everyone, congrats on a strong third quarter and also a great Analyst day back in September. Dash I guess this goes to you. When you look at your two primary platforms and the loan products that you now have available. Is there in this sort of - in the non-agency world, are there any non-attractive opportunities out there in terms of other specialty loan products that you guys have not tackled yet? Using your kind of existing platform, but just different products?

It's a great question, Steve. I think it's, at some level, it's probably more variations on the team focused on. Multifamily, has been an increasing focus of CoreVest footprint, both shorter term, and more stabilized type loans, we expect to be able to do more of that going forward, potentially larger loans, things of that nature, a lot of that is driven by increased client penetration, we've become much more efficient, about how we can finance some of those loans. And so those are those are things we're very, very focused on. And with resi on the consumer side, I think it gets back to Stevens question, continuing to drive opportunities in expanded prime in Choice, figuring out what products are out there. I would touch as well on the home equity investment piece as well. That's much earlier stage for us. But really the partnership with Point and the ability to securitize those as efficiently as we did, plus just the massive addressable market we feel some variations on that same will be a part of the picture. But again that's earlier days.

Yes. And I'm sure there's reverse mortgages have been so controversial over the years. But if you can come up with a better mousetrap for that, you really will have something I think. And I guess just talking in addition to the products, when you think about and for now I want to focus more on the resi platform. We think about your seller base, and would it had been, and I know, I'm dating myself, but I can remember when it was roughly 175 sellers, I'm sure it's broader than that now. But we're seeing these newly public residential agency originators, they're struggling with revised down, and several have started talking about doing more non-agency products. And I'm just curious, in general, what the opportunities are with your seller base on the resi side, and if any of these fairly large agency originators could be a source of loans, as they look to originate, especially the wholesale channel, they look to do more non-agency business to fill the void.

Steve, it's, Chris. I think we mentioned in our materials, we're purchase heavy on the resi side, which is a very good place to be heading into the market that we're in, so we're not overly reliant on refi business. Our seller base is actually a little smaller. We've called the base a little bit versus where we were pre-COVID, very focused on quality and relationships there. I do think that as things transition, and the market turns, more of these agency originators will try to move to non-agency. It's very logical evolution. I think we're talking to all the right people there and we're a great outlet for them. And they're still - the non-owner occupied business continues to evolve. There's some big announcements last quarter. I think that volume will slow down in PLS, but not go away, because frankly, there's some of these larger agency originators, have now established issuance platforms, on the PLS side, which continue to present opportunities for us. So there's a lot that's happened over the last few months in the mortgage space. And I think the fourth quarter is a good quarter to take stock of these evolutions, we'll have greater clarity with the direction of the FHFA. We'll get November more clarity on loan limit increases, and we'll do some planning for 2022.

Our next question comes from the line of Ryan Carr with Jefferies.

Hi, good afternoon, guys. Congratulations on another great quarter. And thanks again for the excellent analyst days last month. So in terms of what you're seeing, on the rate side, just curious to hear your perspective on or potential outlook on 4Q volumes and how that might be impacting potential burnout scenario going into the fourth quarter?

Well, obviously, rates have been volatile. Today was a very volatile day in the markets. And one thing we try to consistently say is, when rates are volatile our hedging costs typically go up candidly. So from that standpoint, particularly on the resi business, which is much more sensitive to the REIT market than BPL we're actively managing our pipeline and our exposure. Overall, I think seasonally on the resi side, as I mentioned, it's typically a slower volume quarter for the industry. I think that will be the case this year again, it was the case in Q4 of last year. And I think we're, as well positioned as we can be. Our book is turning over I think faster than anyone else in the industry at this point on the resi side. We look at the average loan age of our book; it's well inside many of our competitors across the landscape. So we're from a current coupon perspective, we're well positioned. We can reprice every day. And I think we'll be in a good spot to finish the year strong. On the BPL side, as I mentioned, it's a very busy quarter. And we haven't offered any specific guidance. But we're off to a strong start there. And, again, seasonally, when you look at past years, we've gotten a lot done as we close out the year. I think overall, we're mostly focused on finishing out the year strong, it's been an extremely good year, a lot of hard work by the team. So that's the near term focus and we'll start to set our sights on 2022.

Thanks for that color. And then quickly on the Horizons portfolio, any material updates in terms of fair value changes at this point that you're seeing?

No material updates, just given the seasoning of our deals, still pretty early in their life. But that so no material change to get?

Awesome. Thank you very much for taking my questions. And congrats again on the great quarter.

Our next question comes from the line of Kevin Barker with Piper Sandler.

Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. I just want to follow-up on your capital base is not available capital jump, I believe it's $350 million and really doubled quarter-over-quarter, is there anything in particularly you see in the near term to redeploy that capital, or what your expectations are for putting that capital to use?

Thanks for the question, Kevin. And yes that obviously was partly a result of some of the accretive financing transactions we did during the quarter, which we were pleased with. I think, consistent with prior quarters its, a lot of it is making sure that the operating businesses have the right, the right depth of operating capital to continue to grow, making sure we're running those businesses with the right margin of error, so to speak, in terms of risk capital, and obviously capital acquired to fund more loans, hopefully, through the pipelines. So that's probably job one. Frankly, Brooke also referenced the increased volumes, recently in Bridge, which do represent sort of chunkier opportunities to put money to work as well, which is obviously highly strategic, given CoreVest footprint there. Currently, we have seen slightly more opportunities in the third-party space here more recently, we'll see where credit spreads go, but it is heading into the year, historically, it has been valuable for us to keep excess capital on hand to be able to react to the extent that spreads create an opportunity to put more capital to work. So I think we're pleased with the position here, very late October heading into the end of the year, if there are things to do, we'll be ready to capitalize on them. And then as always, we're looking at some opportunities off the screens sort of more customized partnership based investments, which will hopefully be in a position to talk more about early next year.

Then, in regards to your securities portfolio seems pretty compelling that you have about $270 million of discount the par value potential recapture, I guess, every time that book value we're ready to recapture to par. Can you give us some specific examples of like the largest portfolios that have that are sitting in the par and then what your cost basis may be on specific portfolios?

Sure, so about $174 million of our accretable discounts action are in re-performing loan portfolio, which was about $517 million in terms of fair value on our balance sheet at the end of the quarter. And about 90% of our field securities, we actually own the entire sub-stack with about $2 billion of underlying collateral are we on the call rate. And so that is where the vast majority of that discount line which gives us more visibility around when we can potentially call those deals. So again, I think I mentioned this back at investor day, but that's not included in the $0.68 a share of premium from potential calls that we put out to the market. So that would be in addition to I don't have the number offhand, I think it's high 70s in terms of the dollar value securities today. [Indiscernible]. Yes, $77.

Got it. So we did assume higher home prices that you'd be able to quickly recapture that discount. Do you have an estimate and obviously, your portfolio has done very well? Is there anything in particular that would accelerate the recapture of that discount?

Yes, in general, I have to say speed has picked up on that cohort from running around five to seven TPRs kind of mid-single digits to another mid teen. And so steady prepays will help accelerate those, which is driven by HPI combined with solid fundamental performance, we saw another 1% to 2% increase in our improvement in the amount of 90 day delinquencies we had on that cohort of our portfolio as well. So we saw a 90 day delinquencies kind of spiked to around mid-teens, during COVID and they're back down to high single digits to around 10. So the economy seems to recover, we expect to continue to recover that value.

The other thing I'd add Kevin just quickly, is that the call rights sort of come in two different flavors as you know, some of them have to do with pool factors and how quickly the pools amortize away, which to Brookes point. Obviously those have been coming into the money much more quickly with HPA and speeds. The re-performing loan securities that we own are more time based. The first of the two larger investments we have actually becomes callable. Towards the end of next year, there's a slight call premium associated with that, but it may still be accretive to us to call. But as Brooke said those numbers in the RPL part of the portfolio are not included in the $0.68, but they're more time based and we can make an assessment at that time based on other execution alternatives, whether it makes sense.

Okay, do you anticipate the expiration of various forbearance and foreclosure moratoriums to potentially impact the recoverability of that discount? And do you anticipate those more terms expiring also to impact potential opportunities as we go into the New Year?

It's possible, I think more of the impact would probably be in the re-performing loan book, our forbearance, numbers and Sequoia are de minimis at this point. Clearly, we're in a very different situation, then 10 or 12 years ago, from a supply perspective, and just the overhangs in the market and some of the execution challenges that created over a couple of years, clearly, we're in a much different situation fundamentally. I mean, the exploration may speed up a little bit some of the resolutions, but those re-performing loan investments are on conforming loans, loans that used to be pooled into Freddie securities, and then we're repurchased out. So there are pretty strict guidelines by the servicer for loss mitigation and things like that. Those loans are subject to the Cares Act. So we're not pricing in any particular major impact of the exploration. The fundamentals of those portfolios continued to improve, prepay speeds are higher than we modeled. And that's probably more where we're focused on this point and assessing the future cash flow.

Our next question comes from the line of Doug Harter with Credit Suisse.

Thanks. Just thinking about the amount of capital you need for the BPL mortgage banking business. The fact that you can have done a securitization with the reinvestment period does that reduce ultimately reduce the amount of capital you need for that business and therefore improve the returns?

The short answer is yes. Apples-to-apples, yes, it will we certainly expect to continue allocating more capital in that direction based on hopefully growth of the business. But for contacts the 90% of liabilities that we sold are on average, about 10% to 15% higher from an advanced rate perspective than the non-marginable bilateral warehouse lines that we've usually use to finance bridge loans. And obviously the securitization is essentially match funded non-recourse and non-marketable, so very attractive on a couple of fronts. But yes, at the margin, there is an ROE pickup there and additional capital freed up.

Got it and then just as you think about, I know one of the goals has been turning over the - kind of the originations quicker to kind of maximize or minimize the amount of capital there, I guess, where would you say you are in that in that process and is there more room for improvement?

I say we've made great progress, a couple data points, you know, our most recent securitization, the first one that we use blockchain on, the average loan age at time of securitization was one month compared to three to four months, for the rest of the industry. From an overall funding turnaround time perspective, we touched on rapid funding, but even outside of rapid funding, we're probably around two weeks at this point to fund our sellers, which compares very, very favorably to the competition. So even with record volumes, record locks, we've continued to grind in our timelines, which really is a testament to the team and frankly the relationships that are required to do that work more quickly. That's a huge intangible, which we've talked about before, but is worth emphasizing, particularly against the backdrop of what Chris was referring to with rates, a great hedge to that, obviously, is speed and the ability to fund so quickly and then securitize or sell is a very big part of that.

Yeah, I just add that overall, the plan is to continue growing these businesses, as Dash mentioned, which means allocating more capital but doing it profitably, not because we're slowing down or just not funding quickly enough. I think the efficiencies and the operating margins in the businesses reflect great progress, especially this year. And so hopefully, if we're growing those businesses and allocating more capital, it's because the ROEs are extremely strong, and it's the best marginal use of our money.

There are no further questions in the queue. I'd like to hand the call back over to management for closing comments.

Okay, thank you, everybody for participating in our call and we look forward to talking to you again next quarter.

Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's teleconference. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day.