Good day, everyone, and welcome to the CBS Corporation's Fourth Quarter 2015 Earnings Release Teleconference. Today's call is being recorded. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to the Executive Vice President of Corporate Finance and Investor Relations, Mr. Adam Townsend. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you, Gwen. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to our fourth-quarter and full-year 2015 earnings call. Listening on the phone is our Chairman Emeritus, Sumner Redstone. And joining us with today's remarks are our recently elected Chairman, Leslie Moonves, who also remains CEO; and our Chief Operating Officer, Joe Ianniello. Les and Joe will discuss the strategic and financial results of the Company, and we will then open the call up to questions. Please note that during today's conference call, the full-year and fourth-quarter results are discussed on an adjusted basis, unless otherwise specified. Reconciliations for non-GAAP financial information related to this call can be found in our earnings release or on our Web site. Also, statements in this conference call related to matters which are not historical facts are forward-looking statements, which involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ. Risks and uncertainties are disclosed in CBS Corporation's news releases and securities filings. A webcast of this call and the earnings release related to today's presentation can be found on the investor section of our Web site at cbscorporation.com. And with that, it's my pleasure to turn the call over to Les.

Thank you, Adam, and good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us once again. First, last week, as you heard, I was elected Chairman of this great Company. I want to start today by thanking Sumner by thanking our Vice Chair, Shari Redstone, and our Board of Directors for this great vote of confidence. It is indeed an honor to be the Chairman of CBS. I also want to say, right up front that I couldn't be more pleased and encouraged about the continued strength of the CBS Corporation. Our assets are performing extremely well, and they are set up for a terrific future. I know you've been sorting through a lot of earnings analysis this week, and when you look at CBS you'll see that we have a unique and compelling story. So, now let's get to the results. I'm extremely pleased to tell you that we delivered a terrific fourth quarter. We posted our best results of 2015 and built on the momentum that we began to see in Q3. Fourth-quarter revenue was up 6% to $3.9 billion, the highest quarter in the history of CBS. Operating income was also up 6% to $747 million and was a fourth-quarter record. And EPS was up 19% to $0.92, again the best EPS we've ever achieved. The good news is these strong fourth-quarter results are serving as a springboard for what is going to be an outstanding 2016. In the year ahead, we are set for broad-based strength across all of our revenue sources. First, advertising is as robust as we've seen in a long time. Scatter pricing is way up over last year's upfront, a fact that will be fresh in the mind of buyers as they approach this year's upfront in just a few months. This bodes…

Thanks, Les, and good afternoon, everyone. As you heard, CBS capped off 2015 with a record fourth quarter, and we're building off that strength here in 2016. We are clearly firing on all cylinders. Advertising continues to benefit from a strong scatter marketplace. Re-trans and reverse comp are set to hit $1 billion in revenue. International licensing has surpassed $1.5 billion, and continues to grow. And our Over-The-Top services are expanding rapidly. We continue to set ourselves up for the future by investing in premium content and in our own distribution services. So as Les said, we are poised to succeed no matter how viewers choose to consume their content. Now let me give you some more details about our fourth quarter results. Revenue for the quarter was up 6% to an all-time high of $3.9 billion and all three of our major revenue sources grew nicely. During the quarter, advertising was up 1%, despite comping against strong local political advertising from 2014. Network advertising led the way and grew 8% during the quarter, and gained momentum from the third quarter. And on a full-year basis, underlying network advertising was up 4%. Affiliate and subscription fee revenue was up 13% for the fourth quarter, as retrans and reverse comp continues to grow with each new deal that we do. And content licensing and distribution was up 16%, driven by our new deals to license our Showtime programming internationally, which once again underscores the strength of our strategy to own more of our content across our networks and monetize it globally. We also turned in operating income that grew 6% to $747 million, a fourth-quarter record. And we achieved that increase even as we produced 14% more original programming hours at CBS, Showtime, and The CW. Once again, this investment in…

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] We'll take our first question from Ben Swinburne with Morgan Stanley.

I have two questions, unrelated: I wanted to ask about the outlook for licensing. Joe, you mentioned some of the younger shows on the network. And as you guys know, there's a lot of question in the marketplace about the demand in traditional off-net and more broadly around licensing. So, can you give us a sense of your expectation around timing of monetization for those big CBS shows? And I don't know if you'd be willing to talk about it, but would you be able to say you think you can grow licensing in 2016, particularly when you think about the deals you have done on Showtime in Europe, for example? And then unrelated, Les, we've gotten this question a lot, and maybe you can touch on it. Having the Chairman and CEO role together now, do you think investors and shareholders should be thinking that there will be anything different coming out of CBS, in terms of strategy or capital allocation, now that you've taken on both roles? Thank you.

All right, Ben, let me tackle the first one. Look, you know we don't give guidance, so here's what I will tell you. I will tell you that there are more buyers in the marketplace for hit content than there have ever been in the past. So the way we look at that is certainly from a price point perspective, it's going to, price is going to go up. So we're feeling really good about it. And again, I will also tell you that whenever we budget a revenue type, we've never in our professional career budgeted anything to go down. So I think we have high expectations for that, and it's because of the content pipeline. We have hundreds of episodes yet to be monetized. And as Les said, we have more top 20 shows that anybody else. So if anybody is buying anything, they're going to start with us.

Ben, on the other question, look, Sumner is for many years giving me a free rein, so I don't view being the Chairman as changing our strategy or performance. The team is still together. I'm excited about the opportunity. It's an honor to be doing this. But I think it's going to be business as usual. We're in great shape. And I think our team is very satisfied in knowing that there is stability here and there's going to be for many years to come.

We'll take our next question from Jessica Reif Cohen with Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

I have a couple of questions. First on the newer international deals, they are different than some of the previous deals. Could you talk about how long these deals generally are? Are they in dollars or local currency, and what kind of escalators you have?

Yes, Jessica, it's Joe. Yes, the Showtime deals you are referring to, they are different because it's basically they're taking the Showtime brand and all future episodes. So they are buying the library the backlist as well as all new shows, going forward. So I think that's the exciting part, because what we're building is obviously a global brand. Each deal is different. Obviously if they are in local currency, we are going to hedge that foreign currency risk. We try to get them denominated in dollars. They are usually 5 to 7 years in duration depending upon the partner. So we're set up very nicely for a long period of time.

Great. And then just switching gears completely -- but in advertising, I just wanted to follow up on some of the comments you both, Joe and Les, made. Joe, you gave guidance for local for -- this is about Q1. For local, I think you said high single digits.

Right.

In terms of percent change. But I didn't hear any commentary on the network. And, Les, you said you expect significant increases in the upfronts. I was wondering if you could give us any kind of range on that. And then one last question for you, Les. As you are looking towards the upfront presentations, is there any change in the way you are approaching the development season or the development process?

Alright, let me deal first of all, the reason we are so encouraged. There was concern at the last upfront that the numbered, even though CPMs were up mid-single digits, volume was down, there was a little bit of nervousness. Oh, gee, is the digital revolution taking over? And as we saw, beginning in the third quarter when scatter went up in terms of -- high teens, we're talking about -- and that continued into the fourth quarter, and continuing to the first quarter. So, once again, we always like to say that a guy who bought ads from CBS in October paid nearly 20% more than he would have if he would've bought from us in July. As this momentum continues -- and, once again, tightened by the great sporting events we have, the Grammy awards, political advertising locally -- but at the network, the scatter is getting better every month. So as we head into the upfront, we are fairly certain -- and once again, Jo Ann Ross will kill me, so I don't give numbers. But I think it's going to be substantially higher than it has been before, than it has been in the past year. And I think it generally follows that when scatter is this strong, the upfront continues to be strong, and we're anticipating that now. In terms of development, there's really nothing uniquely different now. Obviously we have a new President of Entertainment who has slightly different tastes than Nina, and Glenn is great. We are ordering around the same number of pilots as we have in previous years. I would say we own a lot more than we ever have before. There are only a couple that we are not -- that we don't own at least half, and an awful lot of them we own 100% of that. Because, as you see, the back end becomes as important, if not more, than the front end. And the kind of shows that we're developing, once again, at this point, they are across the board, from procedurals that have worked very well with us to more soapy, serialized shows, which now with the SVOD players, buying them and paying more for them. So it really is too early to tell. I can tell you I am very pleased with the development. We don't need that much, because we have a great stability in our number-one schedule. So I've read all the scripts, and we're casting, and we will start production shortly.

Thank you.

Yes, I don't want to forget about your last question. I know you won't let us forget about it. But we didn't give you the network advertising because it's so big, we don't want to scare you. But all I will tell you is that the underlying, I think, again is really key, because obviously we have the Super Bowl and the extra playoff game. So it's a big number. But underlying, the key takeaway you should take away, the underlying strength continues. We haven't seen a market like this in quite some time.

Fantastic. Thank you.

Thank you, Jessica. Gwen, next question.

And we'll go next to Alexia Quadrani with JPMorgan.

Just two questions. First, you seem to be making a very big push around CBS All Access, with promotions in the Super Bowl; and content investments you mentioned -- additional, inclusive programming on CBS All Access. Can you talk about how you are thinking about balancing growing this great new service with balancing potential disruption to your existing business, which still drives so much of your earnings? And then a second, totally unrelated question, just on your comments earlier about possibly participating in the broadcast incentive spectrum auction. Any thoughts there on the potential use of proceeds?

Alright. I'll try to deal with the first one. Yes, All Access, yes -- it is very important to us. But as we said, no matter how you get your CBS content, we are going to be there. So if you want to stay more traditional, we're going to be there. But as more and more people are watching our content digitally, we also want to make that offering there. So, you take an opportunity like we had with Star Trek -- and when you talked about original content -- and obviously we could have put that anywhere. We could have put it on Netflix; we could have put it on Amazon and sold it for a lot of money. We said the investment is much more important to put it on All Access. You are right and you are observant; we did put a spot for All Access on the Super Bowl, as well as a spot for Showtime Over-The-Top, and we say that's part of our future. It's going to be a growing part. And as we said in our earlier comments, next year it's going to be a substantial financial benefit to us to have those sub numbers with us. So it's part of the future. And as I said, any way you want to get your CBS, we're going to be there.

And for your second question, Alexia, the broadcast spectrum: obviously because we're participating in it, we can't really say too much about that. But what we will say is, A, any proceeds realized we, first and foremost, always look to reinvest in our business, in more content. And any excess capital, we return to shareholders.

Thank you very much.

Thanks, Alexia. Gwen, next question.

We'll go next to Michael Morris with Guggenheim Securities.

Thank you, good afternoon guys. Two questions, first on All Access, can you share what you're seeing in terms of the viewing habits on that product right now? What are your customers using it for in terms of catch-up viewing, etcetera? And I'm particularly interested in whether sports viewing is important and proportional on that service compared to on the traditional service. And then second of all, maybe a more theoretical question, but how would you think about possibly -- in the primetime lineup, instead of programming three hours, do two hours, maybe pull the local news forward an hour, and bring some of your highly rated late-night programs earlier and then perhaps being able to reallocate that programming budget. Thanks.

Joe, do you want to take the All Access [Multiple speakers]?

Yes, I'll take the All Access, Mike. Look, I think what we are seeing -- obviously, the demographic, we're seeing a younger audience. Obviously we're seeing a lot of Millennials consume there. The biggest where they're spending the most amount of time is those catch-up viewing, it's past episodes of current seasons. And so that's, again, a really good promotional vehicle for they catch up, and then they start watching back at the network, so that's where we're seeing probably 60%-plus of the viewership. Sports is actually small, and live is smaller as well. So I think the value proposition is its deep library, its catch-up ability. It's anywhere, anytime. And that's where we think where the value -- where we're delivering.

And Mike, regarding primetime, these shows -- our primetime lineup is very profitable, especially with the aftermarket. And you may recall a move that I think may have been the greatest mistake in the history of broadcasting, which was to put Jay Leno at 10 o'clock, which clearly was a big failure, and frankly benefited us a great deal with our 10 o'clock programming because it was able to increase our numbers at that point. And as I said, these 10 o'clock shows, most of what we own or throughout our schedule have a very lucrative aftermarket, which frankly the late-night shows don't have. The late-night shows do have a market online and they are very lucrative, but nothing compared to an NCIS or a CSI.

We will take our next question from Anthony DiClemente with Nomura.

I wanted to ask about your thoughts on the pricing of streaming services. Hulu charges an extra $4 to be ad-free, which we think is priced below what those networks get in terms of ad revenue per user. And I think you guys have said you generate roughly $4 a subscriber in CBS ad revenue. So, as it relates to CBS All Access -- first off, are you considering an ad-free version of it and if you are, do you think you would price it at $9.99? Or would you do something below $9.99 to entice better adoption of it, as Hulu does? And then, Joe, just want to ask about the sale of the interactive business in China. Can you just talk about that? Are there any other digital assets or hidden assets that you've got there under the hood at CBS that might be divestiture candidates for us? Thanks.

Yes. Anthony, on the All Access, we priced it at 5.99 and we're exploring it. And you have the right numbers. At $4, that's what we're getting approximately from a CBS viewer for non-advertising. And we've contemplated doing a 9.99 service. We're not there yet. And once again, remember, All Access is new. We're experimenting with pricing. We think we're at the right place. The same kind of thing with Showtime OTT and we think if we do offer an ad-free service, which is a great possibility, that's the sort of pricing we are looking at, so it will be -- it won't matter to us whether they are doing an ad-free or with ads. May I add, at Hulu, it hasn't worked that well yet for the ad-free service. People still prefer it to be without ads, but we will look at that.

And on the sale, we sold an interactive business, an auto business called Xcar in China. Again, it was fantastic, again, a great accretive multiple for us. China's volatility just made sense for us to exit that. So we're constantly looking for underutilized assets where we could maximize it and sell it really in a tax-advantaged way. And we were able to do that on this one. So we're constantly doing that, Anthony.

Thanks a lot.

We will go next to John Janedis with Jefferies.

Les, you reiterated your confidence in retrans. But the market has gotten incrementally nervous that the slowing affiliate fee growth at the cable networks, more broadly, is going to impact retrans growth at some point. And so, I wanted to ask, has the tone of the discussion with the MVPDs changed at all? And will there be any impact related to consolidation? That's my first question. Thanks.

Yes, the answer is no. I think everybody knows what the ballgame is with retrans. And, frankly, with the consolidation, we are looking forward to doing it. Our last big deal that was up was Cablevision, which we -- there was no muss, no fuss; everybody knew what the game was. Retrans is stronger than ever. It's growing greatly, every deal that we've done is bigger than the one before, both with retrans or reverse comp. And, by the way, we see it with our affiliates. They are all successfully making deals, and those deals are being passed along to us. So the tone really hasn't changed at all. As a matter fact, if anything, it's changed more positively. Because people get that this is part of the world that we're now living in, and we're very pleased about that.

Great, thanks. And then maybe separately, you've been active on the Showtime licensing front. I assume there was a fair amount of marketing of new programming along with the Bell Media deal during the quarter. But can you talk about when the impact from the deals that you just announced will have a more visible impact on maybe EBITDA margins? And will that be lumpy, or more of a straight line from a revenue perspective? Thanks.

Yes, John, it's Joe. Yes, I think, look. As we just said in our prepared remarks, we expect the cable networks margin to expand in 2016. So as we are doing more and more of these, as we look at the accounting side, they call it the ultimate, we're trying to smooth that margin so we don't have the volatility that it goes up for every new deal. Again, the good news is these deals have been all accretive, and you're seeing a pretty healthy margin in that business. And so I'd say there's more to come.

We'll go next to Bryan Kraft with Deutsche Bank.

Just had a few brief questions, one, I was wondering if you could talk about the cost structure improvements in local broadcasting, and the cadence for when you expect those to start to materialize over the course of the year. Also I wanted to see if you could comment on the, whether you see any improvement coming in radio, or you think these kind of declines will continue. And then the last one I had is just on cable. I don't know if this math is right, but it looks like cable subscription revenue growth was up low-single-digits year-over-year in the fourth quarter. Assuming that sounds about right, can you talk about what's going on under the surface with mix, and how it's impacting revenue, and how we should think about the underlying growth from here? Thank you.

All right, Bryan. On the cost side for local, I would say again, we probably got about $80 million of cost out of the local segment that we'll see build throughout the year, really probably more back half. And as far as the revenue goes, I think again you're going to see radio, I think, build sequentially. Obviously again political driving it, not to the degree as it's going to benefit local television stations, but there will certainly be a benefit in that. We obviously, in the middle of the year, last year, we changed our management team as well. So, again, we're expecting margin expansion and growth. It's also a very low-capital-intensive business, and so we do benefit a lot from significant cash flow that they generate. As far as the cable numbers, the sub growth there, as we said, ended the year at an all-time high. And so, if the benefit of owning shows obviously is high-margin. So when we sell those shows and make them available, and we sell a Dexter, a lot of that profit falls in that quarter. So they will have some lumpiness on the mix of those titles of what year was it sold? Was there eight seasons, six seasons two seasons? So I think that obviously does cause some volatility to the, numbers, but the high-class problem is, is how high is up? And so, it is in a much better position we are, and generating and take that and reinvesting it into the business to do more and more original series. So that's really gives us the ability to do that, so we like owning it, I know you guys would like a steady growth rate, and just plug it into your model and have it go every quarter. But that's why always say, look at it on a full-year basis and it usually evens out.

We'll go next to Doug Mitchelson with UBS.

A few questions, first, Joe, I don't mind being scared, so I'll take a shot at 1Q network advertising: Super Bowl, 45% that's 300 million. Playoff game 40 million plus add in [Multiple Speakers].

But you've got to give me the percentage, Doug. Say the percentage. What do you got, up network, up what?

70%, how's that?

Go ahead.

All right, no comment on that one?

No.

So, look, the advertising is pretty interesting. I'm curious, you guys have been in this game a long time, why is advertising getting better? And the reason I ask that question is Wall Street is being inundated with macro data points that are not favorable. The fourth quarter, third quarter weren't great quarters for the economy, yet TV advertising is killing it any thoughts as to why that's the case?

Number one, everybody was trying to break the model. We've been doing this a long time. There are up fronts that are spectacular; there are ones that aren't so spectacular. Their scatter was down then scatter was up. And I think there's no question that there's a bit of noise out there about digital advertising not having quite the same ROI as we do, as broadcast. And, by the way, we're in digital advertising in a big way. In addition, you see things from programmatic, and you hear noise that maybe not everybody recorded is really a person. It's a machine. And I think that the validity of the content, the shows that we're putting on, shows that viewers are engaged in, and the advertising works better. So, I don't think, it hasn't been surprising, with this is a pattern we've seen for many years. Network advertising, if you want to reach a mass audience, and we've said this before, not knocking YouTube, but 20 million people watch NCIS. That takes a lot of hits on YouTube, except for Adele and Corden to equal what we're able to do on an episode of NCIS, or Big Bang, or 60 minutes. So, I think it just comes down to it is still the best bang for your buck.

So the second question, Les, one thing I think I'll always remember is when Viacom and CBS were split, how you said that you enjoyed being considered the value, non-growth company. And I'm looking at CBS has a market cap of $20 billion, and Viacom with a market cap of $12 billion and change right now. And I'm wondering, when you think about developing online businesses, both HBO and Netflix have highlighted movies; Netflix has highlighted kids. If Paramount or if a major kids network became available, would you be interested in that for CBS, as you think about developing digital business models for the future?

You know what? We like our businesses right now. We build on our strength. We don't need to get into other businesses that -- we're hitting it out of the ballpark, as you just heard, in our strong suits. So, there's no reason for us to get into the kids business.

How about the movie business?

The movie business? We're in it a little way. We have a couple small movies. We do two or three of them per year. And we're very pleased with what we're doing. It's not something -- you're not going to see us invest in a $150 million movie, because there are no guarantees, and not every movie is Star Wars. So we're pretty happy with the assets we have now, and we'd like to build upon the strength of our television business.

We'll take our next question from Laura Martin, Needham.

Great numbers, congratulations. Joe, with political, my recollection is that your mid-term elections are typically smarter than your -- larger than your presidential elections. And my recollection is that, in 2014, you were about $220 million of political revenue. Can you -- do you think this is going to be a bigger year? Because Les talked about record political. So do you think, despite historical, we're going to get a better political number for you this year?

Here's what I would say, Laura. It will be a record presidential election year for us.

Okay. So maybe still below the last number. Perfect. Les, you talked about the mix of subs for CBS News, and it was fascinating to hear you say they were 20 years younger. Because my recollection -- last time I looked -- is that Fox News is about a 72-year-old average age. Even rounding down across all news, let's say it's a 60-year-old average age, would that imply that your CBS News signup is around 40 years old? Which is way older than I would've expected for that kind of over-the-top service.

Well, number one, you're right. Cable news is over 70. Fox News, that's the right number, it's like 71 or 72. Broadcast television news -- the three networks that are doing broadcast -- is around low 60s. And we are on our CBSN -- once again, it's not a subscription. It's an advertising-based business. It is about 20 years younger. But once again, you have to realize in the news business, a 40-year-old is a young person. So we are really happy to have them. And there are people that currently aren't watching either cable or network, so it is getting younger. I don't think there are a lot of 20-year-olds that are watching yet, but I think that will come.

Okay. That's very helpful. And then just the last, now on your All Access product, what percent of your affiliates are now signed up under contract to rev share with the CBS All Access?

85%.

And you should close that gap by the end of the year, do you think?

There's one group that's not in, and hopefully we get them done.

And we'll take our next question from Tim Nollen with Macquarie.

I have a couple things. I wanted to ask about the upfront market coming up here. You've talked about previously going for a majority of your deals on C7 this time. I wonder if you could comment on that. And then, in a similar vein, given whatever digital sales you may be doing on All Access or any other digital platforms, any other digital sales, will you be doing cross-platform guarantees? Or will you be handling those separately? And then a second unrelated question looking at just big-picture 2015 versus '14, margins being slightly down. You highlight that the two main reasons were programming costs going up, and investments in digital distribution. I would assume programming costs don't necessarily go down, because your per-episode cost probably goes up, and you probably have more stuff to sell. [But in digital] distribution, investments may go down -- correct me if I'm wrong. So I just wonder if I'm thinking about your margin progression correctly there, meaning you should be able to get back to margin expansion from here?

All right, Tim, I'll do the first question, and Joe will do the second. The upfront marketplace, last year we attempted to do more C7s. We did get more; we didn't get quite as many as we would've liked. I think, this year, more than 50% of the deals are going to be C7. You see people embracing that more. You see that terminology being used more for what is valuable. And I think the advertisers and the agencies are realizing that C7 is a better way of measurement. In terms of digital sales and cross-platform guarantees, as each day goes by we're doing a lot more cross-selling. And our digital group is working very closely with our network group. We saw an awful lot of it in the Super Bowl. And, yes, guarantees can be paid off in many ways by either one of them shifting. There are times we have used network guarantees digitally. And it depends on the client. But you are seeing a lot more, as I said, collaboration, and a lot more creativity on the part of the advertisers, as well as the various sales groups within CBS.

And, Tim, on your margin question, the short answer is yes. We expect margin expansion in '16. I'd just remind you, in 2015, we had the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight in the year, which was a lot of revenue, but low-margin for us. So we do expect our margins to expand.

We will take our next question from Vijay Jayant with Evercore ISI.

I just wanted to understand your international licensing strategy, which is obviously very accretive and good margins and obviously in the U.S., you've gone direct to consumer. Have you even considered looking at direct-to-consumer opportunities internationally? And is that, on an NPV basis, not as good, and that's why you are going licensing as a strategy?

Vijay, look, obviously each territory I mean what's rights are sold and what's available differs, so obviously that's not lost upon us as a future opportunity. I think, for now, what we were looking at we've looked at market by market and we thought, what was the best way to maximize value, but clearly leaving a door open for us.

Great. Thanks so much.

Thanks, Vijay. And why don't we take one final question, please?

And we will take our last question from David Miller with Topeka Capital Markets.

Hey guys. Congratulations on the result. Les, I have to say in the 16 years I've been an analyst, I've been through my share of recessions or head-fake markets pricing, and the possibility of a recession. And I've always seen that advertising seems to go down first. And yet that's not happening, neither with you guys or really anyone else who has reported so far in this earnings rotation. So, with that in mind, can you talk about how far in advance, right now, media buyers are buying network, ex-sports, if you might? Just how far in advance are you seeing media buyers take an interest in buying network and on local? And then I have a follow-up. Thanks.

Yes, you're absolutely right, David. And we were [indiscernible] back in '08, we saw it coming, we saw it coming. It was there in bright, shining lights. We're not seeing anything remotely resembling that now. And we have visibility through Q2 in terms of our advertising, which is sort of normal, if not even more aggressive than normal. So, that's why I'm so optimistic about the upfront because when I can see advertising up through the second quarter, that will be right smack in the middle of our upfront presentation, and we are very optimistic. So we have not even seen any sign of that at all.

Thank you, David. And this concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining us. Have a great evening.