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Paramount Skydance Corporation Class B Common Stock (PSKY)

Q3 2013 Earnings Call· Wed, Nov 6, 2013

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good day, everyone, and welcome to the CBS Corporation Third Quarter 2013 Earnings Release Teleconference. Today's call is being recorded. At this time, I'd like to turn the conference over to Executive Vice President of Investor Relations, Mr. Adam Townsend. Please go ahead, sir.

Adam Townsend

Management

Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to our third quarter 2013 earnings call. Joining me for today's discussion are Sumner Redstone, our Executive Chairman; Leslie Moonves, President and CEO; and Joe Ianniello, Chief Operating Officer. Sumner will have opening remarks, and we'll turn the call over to Les and Joe, who will then discuss the strategic and financial results. We will then open up the call to questions. Please note that during today's conference call, certain 2013 actual results will be compared against 2012 adjusted results. Reconciliation for non-GAAP financial information related to this call can be found in our earnings release or on our website. In addition, statements in this conference call relating to matters which are not historical facts are forward-looking statements, which involve risks and uncertainties that could cause the actual results to differ. Risks and uncertainties are disclosed in CBS Corporation's news releases and security filings. A webcast of this call and the earnings release for today's presentation can be found on the Investors section of our website at cbscorporation.com. And with that, it's now my pleasure to turn the call over to Sumner.

Sumner M. Redstone

Management

Thank you, Adam. Good afternoon, everyone. I am, once again, extremely pleased for CBS's third quarter. We are clearly on our way to have an outstanding year. Our contents commands a premium across every platform. And with Les and his team leading the way, we've got a long, long way to go. So without further ado, I'll turn the call over to my good friend and colleague, CBS's President and Chief Executive, the man I could call a miracle worker.

Adam Townsend

Management

Thank you, Sumner, for that nice introduction. Good afternoon, everybody, and thank you for joining us. I'm pleased to report today that CBS has currently gained its best third quarter in our history, in all key metrics including double-digit revenue growth and healthy increases in OIBDA, operating income and EPS. Revenue was up 11% to $3.6 billion. OIBDA was up 4% to $941 million. Operating income was up 5% to $828 million. And EPS was up 19% to $0.76. These results are very consistent with what you've been seeing all year long. We've had a record-breaking first half followed by this best third quarter we've ever had. And we're well on our way to a record full year in 2013. As you'll hear today, we're also extremely confident we'll have a terrific 2014 and many years beyond that as well. The reason we continue to post such strong results and have such great confidence on our future is because in addition to the vitality of our base business, our fast-growing nonadvertising revenue streams are getting better all the time. This concludes continued healthy increases in international syndication, digital streaming, cable affiliate fees and of course, retrans and reverse comp. Speaking of that, I know you've all been focused on the Time Warner Cable dispute, the factors that the blackout did not negatively affect our company's third quarter results, and obviously has led to dramatic gains in retrans, which is now up 50% year-to-date. And you'll see even bigger increases in the years to come. In addition, and very importantly, we also retained full digital rights to our content, giving us the flexibility to do a number of deals since we struck the Time Warner Cable one. These include our first major streaming deal for Showtime series with Netflix, a deal…

Joseph R. Ianniello

Management

Thanks, Les, and good afternoon, everyone. Today, I'm going to provide some more details about our third quarter results. Then I'll talk about what we see had and lastly, give you an update on our Outdoor initiatives. Let's start with the third quarter. Our third quarter results once again demonstrate the benefits of CBS's ongoing evolution as we continue to monetize our content across all platforms. During the quarter, our established hit shows fueled increases in streaming and syndication, while our new programming drove advertising revenue higher. And we replenished our content pipeline for more growth down the road. Our third quarter revenue of $3.6 billion was up 11%. And we had increases in every one of our key revenue types. Advertising revenue continued to accelerate and grew 4% for the quarter, driven by the success of our game-changing summer lineup at the CBS Television Network. Content licensing and distribution was up 18%, primarily a result of higher syndication revenue from NCIS: Los Angeles and The Good Wife. And affiliate and subscription fees were up 23% led by our Floyd Mayweather pay-per-view fight, higher retrans and reverse compensation and continued underlying growth at Showtime and the CBS Sports Network. OIBDA of $941 million was up 4%, which includes significant investment in programming with our 2 new franchise hits of the summer, Under the Dome and Ray Donovan, as well as the Mayweather fight. We turned that OIBDA increase into net income growth of 12%. And together, with the benefit of our share buyback program, we delivered EPS growth of 70 -- of 19% to $0.76 per share. On a year-to-date basis, the story is very consistent as well. Year-to-date revenue of $11.4 billion was up 9%. Year-to-date, OIBDA of $2.8 billion was up 7%. Year-to-date operating income of $2.5 billion…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] We'll take our first question from Ben Swinburne with Morgan Stanley.

Benjamin Swinburne - Morgan Stanley, Research Division

Analyst

Les, you've been able to bring some pretty significant procedurals to syndication for a while here. And obviously, you got one -- a couple this year, a couple next year. And there's concern you'll run out of bullets as we head into '15. You made some comments in your prepared remarks that suggest you've got some more. Can you talk about sort of Elementary and where that is in terms of getting to that second cycle promise land? Is '15 realistic? And then on the colony front, it's been a long time, I think, since maybe Raymond, that you've had an owned comedy, make it to second cycle off net. How are you feeling about, I know it's very early days, but how are you feeling about the new comedies on the network? And do you think we can start thinking about what those could mean to the company over the long term?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst

Yes. Regarding Elementary, Elementary is Thursday night 10:00. It's doing very, very well, especially the 10:00 shows when you take in the C3 and the C7 numbers. Elementary is one of the biggest jump-ups. It's almost a gain of 4 million viewers in the first weeks of that. So Elementary is going to be a very powerful tool. And obviously, since we own it, and since the world is changing rapidly, we absolutely have the ability to put it out into syndication in a variety of ways in '15. Regarding the comedies, I'm really excited about The Millers. It's performing very well. It's our first owned comedy, you're right, in a few years. And we think it has a terrific cast and a terrific off-season, great producer. And the numbers are hanging in there very nicely. And we expect that it's going to be there for the long run, which as you know, can turn into a major, major revenue stream. So we're really excited about it. Look, between CBS and Showtime, there's the constant drive to own more and more of our content, as exhibited by Under the Dome and what we have next summer. And frankly, I'm very excited about another brand-new NCIS, which the pilot's going to be on in April, and hopefully, is on the schedule next fall. And that begins once again when you have billion-dollar franchises, it's good to have the third brother in the lock coming up.

Benjamin Swinburne - Morgan Stanley, Research Division

Analyst

Sure. And then just as a follow-up for Joe, on the expense side. The incremental margins at Entertainment, Joe, were a little lower than they've been in the first half. I know there's a lot of volatility quarter-to-quarter, but can you just talk about any context you'd give us around the expense trends at Entertainment this quarter?

Joseph R. Ianniello

Management

Yes, sure. Ben, now look, I think it's more driven by more original hours of content. And again, we're comping against a lot of political preemptions of last year. So think about more hours investing in it. It's our best ROI when we can have these hit franchises. So we're, actually, I look at it, Ben, is we're able to maintain the margin. If I was looking at margin on a year-to-date basis, and if you look at the company, I think year-to-date, it's 25% compared to last year 25%, but we're building for the future. So I think, again, it's a very healthy mix.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Jessica Reif Cohen with Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

Jessica Reif Cohen - BofA Merrill Lynch, Research Division

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

Same thing, one for Les and one for Joe. So Les, obviously, the biggest value driver for the company has been the creation of very successful content. How much further -- you mentioned that you want to use both Showtime and CBS's platforms, maybe CW as well. But could you just talk about how much room there is to expand, how much more can you scale up?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

There's always -- remember, I said it's difficult for producers to say, "Well, gee, your schedule was pretty packed with a lot of hits." But guess what? We have -- we always have 4 or 5 that we put on the fall. We always have room for more there, as well as Showtime, can continue to expand. The same thing with the CW. We have a very successful production company at the studio, which has 20-some-odd shows in production. Showtime is doing their own production. Syndication continues to do very well. And we've created, as we said, a whole new day-part in the summer now. So the idea, Under the Dome, the economics are fabulous. We started out saying, "All right, how can we do original programming in the summer?" And when we took an international number and add that to the Amazon number, suddenly, we covered the cost of production. So we were in profit before the show even went on the air in the summer. And then when it ended up being a hit, that turned into all profit in the summer. We intend to do that with Extant and year 2 of Under the Dome, of which we own 100%. So it's sort of this fairly unlimited, what we're going to be able to produce. In addition, we're starting to produce 4 other services as well. We are producing some cable shows. And so the sky's the limit.

Jessica Reif Cohen - BofA Merrill Lynch, Research Division

Analyst · Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

And then for Joe, I just want to go back to the Outdoor disposition. You mentioned the IPO is Q1. How should we think about the use in timing of proceeds? And what is the potential to lever up now that revenue, once you -- once it's separated, revenue from advertising is 50% or so?

Joseph R. Ianniello

Management

I got it. Sure, Jessica. Look, our expectation is in Q1, we will have the IPO. So the Outdoor business would lever up. And so the cash we receive, CBS receives via dividend from that plus the IPO proceeds, we will look at that to reduce shares outstanding and accelerate our share buyback. Then we will follow that up, probably Q2, Q3 with a split-off transaction, which will act again as a another share buyback, whether it will be in exchange of preferred 20 business days. So that's the current plan and intention. So we're feeling pretty good about that. Obviously, as Les said, we are changing the mix of this company to 50-50. So we're absolutely creating financial flexibility on the balance sheet. And we're feeling, again, also very good about that. So 2014, I think we get the kind of -- reshape the capital structure here with Outdoor and looking at, again, our leverage capacity.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from David Bank with RBC Capital Markets.

David Bank - RBC Capital Markets, LLC, Research Division

Analyst · RBC Capital Markets.

I think you guys syndicated NCIS: L.A. after 6 episodes. Does that mean NCIS: New Orleans before you even have it, they expected to be [indiscernible]

Leslie Moonves

Analyst · RBC Capital Markets.

Yes. We're going to wait until the first commercial break. And then we're going to syndicate, depending on the ratings.

David Bank - RBC Capital Markets, LLC, Research Division

Analyst · RBC Capital Markets.

So I think one of the most interesting things about the deal with Time Warner is sort of no secret that you didn't have to give up authentic -- digital authentication TV Everywhere rights, even though you got a pretty hefty price reportedly. So why is it that you -- why didn't you kind of have a TV Everywhere authenticated product? And what are your plans to do with those exclusive authenticated rights?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst · RBC Capital Markets.

Sure, David. Look, we're open to TV authentication. So we wanted to preserve the flexibility to pursue that. We just want to be paid for that. The right of our content traveling with the consumer, we think we should be getting paid for that. And it's not -- everything can't be included in the one rate that we negotiate with the MVPDs. Those are rights -- rates for inside the home. And that's what we kind of bargain for. And so we're opened to having all sorts of conversations and maintain flexibility doing that. But it's our content. We spend a lot of money for that intellectual property. And we want to fully monetize that.

David Bank - RBC Capital Markets, LLC, Research Division

Analyst · RBC Capital Markets.

So would that imply that there's kind of upside to the new run rate, retrans number if they were to include the TV Everywhere authentication rights?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst · RBC Capital Markets.

Sure. Look, to me, again, that's new distribution outlets, different forms. And again, that's all incremental.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Michael Morris with Guggenheim Securities.

Michael C. Morris - Guggenheim Securities, LLC, Research Division

Analyst · Guggenheim Securities.

Two questions. First, on the 13% ad growth to the network in the quarter and the creation of the new day-part that you referenced, Les, I'm curious where did those advertising dollars come from? I think, I mean historically, there probably hasn't been as much content in the summer because the ad demand hasn't been there to support it. So what has changed there? I mean it's one show, so it's not huge in the grand scheme of things, but over time, I mean is there a lot more opportunity in that, that space you haven't really tapped into yet? And then I have a follow-up.

Leslie Moonves

Analyst · Guggenheim Securities.

The share of the audience, as I said, the reason we did the model the way we did for Under the Dome was you don't expect there to be great ratings in the summertime, which is why we had to sell it internationally and get the Amazon deal available. When the ratings went higher, we took a greater share from our competitors at that point in time. That's why the more original programming, advertisers are coming in to pay those rates if the viewership is there. In the past, the viewership hasn't been there. And I think the network, frankly, sort of allowed cable to take away the product and then we've now -- we're now taking it back, is what I'm trying to do along with cable. So there are advertising dollars as long as the product's there with good rates.

Michael C. Morris - Guggenheim Securities, LLC, Research Division

Analyst · Guggenheim Securities.

Great, great. And then on the Dexter licensing revenue in the quarter, and Ray Donovan as well, who was the partner that you licensed to? And was it all the seasons of Dexter? Was it with partial in terms of what you have in the pipeline?

Joseph R. Ianniello

Management

Mike, it's Joe. Dexter was licensed to Netflix. And I would just caution to you, and I think you're going to see the balance of that in Q1 of 2014.

Michael C. Morris - Guggenheim Securities, LLC, Research Division

Analyst · Guggenheim Securities.

So no Netflix revenue related to Dexter in the fourth quarter, then? It's third quarter and 1Q '14?

Joseph R. Ianniello

Management

Not for Netflix. There could be, obviously, some sales to the traditional syndication. As Les said, Cable Networks are syndication, but not with Netflix.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from John Janedis with UBS.

John Janedis - UBS Investment Bank, Research Division

Analyst · UBS.

Every September, it feels like the market gets nervous around the broadcast ratings. Can you talk about how you feel a few weeks in? And for some of the work David Poltrack has done, can you give us an update on the impact from moving to C7?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst · UBS.

Yes. I think the broadcast ratings are pretty terrific across-the-board when you count in. What's happening now is the ratings are being counted in a much different way than even just a few short years ago. When you add in everything that is there, the numbers are actually going up significantly across-the-board. Now we're not getting paid for every dollar of that, but I think clearly we're heading that way. Once again, there is a sizable number of people that's watching days 4 through 7. And we've just put out a report about first 30 days. So that's not insignificant. So you take a show like Hostages, which is considered performing on a mediocre basis. It only had about 8 million viewers in its initial broadcast. When you look at the 30-day number, it's over 16 million. So it is more than doubled. Those numbers are going to be more and more calculated. We're going to get paid for that. So the poll track view of the world is coming true. And as I said, I think broadcast is viewed as healthy as it's been in many, many years because we are finally getting credit for all the online viewing, for all the VOD viewing, for all the DVR viewing that's out there. And I think the broadcast industry should feel very good about itself.

John Janedis - UBS Investment Bank, Research Division

Analyst · UBS.

Got it. Maybe quickly going back to the retrans comments, can you help us think about the timing? Meaning is it fair to say that the Time Warner Cable and the Verizon deals bring your target forward by about a year or so? And with the new FCC, do you see the potential for any regulations to have an impact on that revenue stream going forward?

Joseph R. Ianniello

Management

John, it's Joe. The way I would think about the retrans and timing, I think it's just they're bigger numbers, the way you intend the run rates that have been and, obviously, accelerate. Obviously, we have to wait until the deals expire. So really, we're just waiting for time really. So we can't kind of push or pull a lot of those dollars forward. But every time we started, we're obviously pushing that value higher and higher.

Leslie Moonves

Analyst · UBS.

And regarding the FCC, we don't think they're going to intervene. Every indication is that they're not going to. If they did, that's probably all they would be able to accomplish because people only know about the big deals. They don't realize we do 50 deals a year. And if they were a referee, literally that would be all they do. Once again, remember, these companies, these MVPDs, some subs may be going down or they may be paying more for it, but their broadband subs, by and large, are going up at very high margins. So they're doing fine. And we're doing fine. So we don't expect the FCC to get involved.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Doug Mitchelson with Deutsche Bank.

Douglas D. Mitchelson - Deutsche Bank AG, Research Division

Analyst · Deutsche Bank.

Great. I've got a question and a completely unrelated follow-up as well. So Les, you talked about seeing a new rate card for CBS retrans with these latest 2 deals. Has the rate card already been set for reverse comp? Because I believe you got a large majority of your station affiliate deals up in 2015? Or is it going to be set in that timeframe?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst · Deutsche Bank.

There's no such thing as a rate card. We look at different station groups differently. We are made up of 220 stations, of which we own 40% of the country. And our affiliates are about 60%. And each one is handled differently just like every MVPD deal is handled differently. There is no specific rate card. We have a target, which we expect to achieve. And yes, a lot of deals are up at the end of '14, beginning of '15. So there's a number of opportunities for us to increase our revenue there. But I think the game has been set and -- but no, there is no rate card.

Douglas D. Mitchelson - Deutsche Bank AG, Research Division

Analyst · Deutsche Bank.

I think a lot of us think about sort of the industry average or standard being a 50-50 sharing. I mean, do you think that's a fair level for TV stations?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst · Deutsche Bank.

That's sort of been the big going, what people have been talking about it for a while. But we're looking at it a slightly differently. We're saying, "You know what? Let's forget about retrans that the stations are getting." We are providing content for our affiliated stations. We are providing NFL and we're providing primetime. We're providing news. We think we should get paid a fair value. So what we they get for retrans, we wish them well. But what we get is a different number. And once again, we value who we are. And our affiliates value who we are.

Douglas D. Mitchelson - Deutsche Bank AG, Research Division

Analyst · Deutsche Bank.

Okay, I like that answer. The unrelated follow-up is there anything else you might be looking at to reduce ad exposure further, whether it's something major in terms of acquisitions [indiscernible] balance sheet, Joe, or other ad-supported businesses that you have that you consider non-core that might come out at some point?

Joseph R. Ianniello

Management

No. Doug, it's Joe. No, I think, again, our focus is grow the non-advertising revenue faster than the advertising. And this is all done organically. There's no acquisition. Obviously, that would change the portfolio and change the mix, could be significantly. But when we talk about that 50-50, that's all organic.

Operator

Operator

And we'll take our next question from Alexia Quadrani with JPMorgan. Alexia S. Quadrani - JP Morgan Chase & Co, Research Division: Just circling back to the success you continue to have on content sales, can you give us some color on how big the international syndication market for you guys either is or potentially can be and maybe in relation to the SVOD market?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst

Yes. I mean, the good news is this year, the international syndication market for us is going to bring in over $1.25 billion, which has grown over the last 5 or 6 years from somewhere around $400 million. The great news for us is Eastern Europe is opening up. Asia is opening up. Latin America is becoming a lot more significant. In addition, the streaming deals are happening all over the world. You see the expansion of Netflix internationally in every market they open up, we are participating in that. So what is very pleasing to us is even as the economy in Europe has gone down, the pricing for our programming has gone up. So it's a very healthy market. It's a very important export for America. And we are benefiting from it. Alexia S. Quadrani - JP Morgan Chase & Co, Research Division: And just a follow-up on the SVOD market. I was a little surprised to see the Dexter revenues come in the third quarter when I think delivery was October. Can you remind us how the revenues typically recognized on that type of sales?

Joseph R. Ianniello

Management

Sure. Alexia, it's Joe. It's when we make the shows available. So it's our availability. I think Netflix is making them available to their customers starting in Halloween. But that deal was signed in the third quarter.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Laura Martin with Needham Capital. Laura A. Martin - Needham & Company, LLC, Research Division: I was on a panel with David Poltrack. And the most interesting thing that you said was that on your digital platforms, your exact same CBS viewing skewed 20 years younger. And so that would be a much more valuable demographic in the ad market. So I'm actually curious as to what the numbers are on digital platforms for you that are 20 years younger for the same programming? 10%?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst

By definition, of course, they would be younger. And when you see the digital platforms becoming -- they could be up to 30% of an audience per se of any given show. So it is very encouraging because it does spread out our demographic and makes it much younger, as you would expect. Laura A. Martin - Needham & Company, LLC, Research Division: And do you sell that in the upfront market or do you sell it standalone for its full value?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst

It depends more and more, but it's being sold side by side with our network advertising. But there's still a great deal of it that's sold totally separately from that. There are digital advertising. It's very interesting. As the advertising agencies and the clients get more integrated, we will sell them accordingly. We are available to sell however they want to buy. Right now, it's mostly fairly separate. Laura A. Martin - Needham & Company, LLC, Research Division: Okay. And then Time Warner this morning said that their SVOD revenue worldwide is $350 million a year. It will be flat in '13 versus '12. And half of that comes from Netflix. Would those be similar numbers for you in terms of the growth being flat and as aggregate size as well?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst

2013, our streaming revenue is up significantly from 2012. And our streaming revenues are coming from primarily Netflix, Amazon and Hulu. Laura A. Martin - Needham & Company, LLC, Research Division: Okay, so it's a lot more than 50% for you, Netflix?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst

Yes -- no, no, no. Netflix isn't a lot more than 50%. I think, again, the dollars are larger. But again, it's those 3 parties making up the lion's share.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from David Miller with B. Riley & Co.

David W. Miller - B. Riley Caris, Research Division

Analyst · B. Riley & Co.

Yes. Joe, just a question on the Americas Outdoor IPO. Is the thinking here that you could really create a juicy trading opportunity by doing this IPO ahead of the PLR ruling? I mean, wouldn't you want this thing to come out of the box, at a media multiple rather than a REIT multiple? And therefore, create a much more compelling share exchange ratio when that occurs, appreciate any comments you have.

Leslie Moonves

Analyst · B. Riley & Co.

Yes. Look, David, we're trying to maximize the value of the Outdoor Americas business. So we think the REIT alternative as a separate standalone public company does just that. So we're confident in our position with the IRS. So we continue to wait for that. But obviously, one factor not in our control is the -- are the Capital Markets interest rates. So we have to take all of those things into consideration, marking conditions as we make the decision. But again, we're very confident that in Q1, we're able to execute that trade. And we think we will have the ruling, I know Lamar is also in the queue waiting for their ruling. So I think, again, we're in a wait-and-see mode. But again, we remain on track. And again, the REIT, as a public entity, we think maximizes the value.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Alan Gould with Evercore.

Alan S. Gould - Evercore Partners Inc., Research Division

Analyst · Evercore.

I just want to follow up on the SVOD comments. Has the U.S. market reached a steady state? And is mostly the growth coming from international? And Joe, could you clarify that $1.25 billion of international syndication? Does that include SVOD or is that all traditional syndication?

Joseph R. Ianniello

Management

Yes. That includes SVOD internationally. So when we talk about our international numbers, it's, again, it's revenue generated from selling our content the traditional way or via streaming. So -- and again, Alan, you asked about if we hit the steady state. I think there are new entrants all the time figuring out streaming and provide -- distributing content in different ways. So we'll look to that. But again, these guys have to continue to renew their deals and new entrants. But again, international is absolutely probably the fastest-growing if I was looking at it in terms of a growth rate [indiscernible] because there are hundreds of markets that still don't have any of our content.

Alan S. Gould - Evercore Partners Inc., Research Division

Analyst · Evercore.

In the U.S. is it that -- are the prices per hour changing? Or is it just that they'll pay more for A quality content and less for B quality in -- et cetera?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst · Evercore.

It does depend on that. Obviously, a show like Dexter would sell for a lot more than a show like I Love Lucy, both of which are now on Netflix. And so depending on the show, once again, remember with our Netflix deal, we have some pre-existing deals where shows that come off the air, we can put it to them and there's a prenegotiated price, which is fairly substantial for us. And we're very excited about that. And by the same token as new programming comes up that they want, we will continue to do that. So...

Joseph R. Ianniello

Management

And we obviously have a lot of shows that the content that we have not sold yet into streaming, into the streaming marketplace. So what we're selling again is really stuff that's already off air. So we still have a huge pipeline of content to sell.

Operator

Operator

Yes, we'll take our next question from Vijay Jayant with ISI Group.

Vijay A. Jayant - ISI Group, Inc.

Analyst · ISI Group.

I just wanted to get sort of regulatory question. Since the Time Warner Cable dispute, obviously, the market thinks that you guys won that. And they sort of settled before the football season started. But there's a couple of, bills, draft bills in Congress that sort of talk about keeping signal on during a dispute or bringing in a different signal and the like. Can you just give us what do you think the chances of those kind of rulings coming to fruition? Or does it really change a negotiating leverage?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst · ISI Group.

Vijay, these bills have been around for a long time. Every time there's a dispute, when you go off the air, there's some more activity there. And clearly, one of the strategies of some of the company is to get the government involved. We don't think it's going to happen. We don't think it's going to happen soon or long-term. We think it's better that the government stays out. And every indication we have is that they will stay out. And that's what our expectations are. And I think that's what most people's expectations are.

Vijay A. Jayant - ISI Group, Inc.

Analyst · ISI Group.

Can I just follow up on -- I couldn't, I have to bring up the Aereo question, if I could. It looks like a bunch of broadcast, including yourself, I think petitioned the Supreme Court. Can you give us any sense of timing and why that deal path when you're trialing it on a market-by-market basis?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst · ISI Group.

Number one, in terms of timing, I really don't know. Number two, they have won a couple of cases. We have won a couple of cases. So we've won in Washington, D.C. We've won in California. They, obviously, won in the 2nd District here in New York City. So ultimately, we feel like it's a good chance that it will go up. Once again, we're not taking Aereo. There's been a lot of talk about it. And we don't think about it terribly much.

Operator

Operator

And our final question comes from Marci Ryvicker with Wells Fargo.

Marci Ryvicker - Wells Fargo Securities, LLC, Research Division

Analyst

The first, there's talk about cable consolidation. It hasn't really happened yet, but it might. So do you have any thoughts on how this might impact retransmission consent over time? And then the second question is, Les, is there any obstacle that would prevent you from moving to C7 in the upcoming upfront season?

Leslie Moonves

Analyst

I'll answer the second question first, and then I'll let Joe talk about the cable consolidation. We already have some C7 deals out there. There are advertisers that realize that if you watch a show 4 days later, it's okay. It's the same value. Obviously, there are certain products that, like movies -- or sometimes that are more timely. But we think more and more of these deals are going to come up that way and be done that way. And if a product needs some attention before that, the rates may change slightly or there'll be a different form of advertising. But we think C7 is obvious. The numbers between C4 and C7 are pretty substantial. And they shouldn't be left behind. And the good news is more and more advertisers are agreeing with us. And they are making deals accordingly.

Joseph R. Ianniello

Management

And Marci, on cable consolidation, we don't lose much -- any sleep on the consolidation. We believe we're going to get paid fair market value for our content. Consumers will always have a choice. And I think that was -- you saw that in the Time Warner Cable dispute where, I guess, their subs were down significantly. And I think FiOS, AT&T and DIRECTV were up. So as long as consumers have a choice, they'll find CBS. And so we're going to always bet on the content.

Leslie Moonves

Analyst

Great. Thank you, Marci. And thank you, everyone, for joining us for tonight's call. Have a great evening.

Operator

Operator

And this does conclude today's conference. We appreciate your participation.