Earnings Labs

Provident Financial Holdings, Inc. (PROV)

Q4 2015 Earnings Call· Tue, Jul 28, 2015

$17.20

+0.35%

Key Takeaways · AI generated
AI summary not yet generated for this transcript. Generation in progress for older transcripts; check back soon, or browse the full transcript below.

Same-Day

+0.50%

1 Week

+0.63%

1 Month

+4.21%

vs S&P

+9.01%

Transcript

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, we'd like to thank you for standing by, and welcome to the fourth quarter earnings teleconference call. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the conference over to your host and facilitator, Mr. Craig Blunden. Please go ahead, sir.

Craig Blunden

Analyst · Tim Coffey of FIG Partners

Thank you. Good morning, everyone. This is Craig Blunden, Chairman, CEO of Provident Financial Holdings. On the call with me is Donavon Ternes, our President, Chief Operating and Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin, I have a brief administrative item to address. Our presentation today discusses the company's business outlook and will include forward-looking statements. Those statements include descriptions of management's plans, objectives or goals for future operations, products or services, forecasts of financial or other performance measures and statements about the company's general outlook for economic and business conditions. We also may make forward-looking statements during the question-and-answer period following management's presentation. These forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, and actual results may differ materially from those discussed today. Information on the risk factors that could cause actual results to differ from any forward-looking statement is available from the earnings release that was distributed earlier this morning, from the annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended June 30, 2014, from the Form 10-Qs that are filed subsequent to the Form 10-K. Forward-looking statements are effective only as of the date they are made, and the company assumes no obligation to update this information. To begin with, thank you for participating in our call. I hope that each of you has had an opportunity to review our earnings release, which describes the fourth quarter results. You will note, this is the fifth consecutive quarter where our community banking and mortgage banking businesses are both profitable, subsequent to the less favorable mortgage banking environment, which was developed approximately 2 years ago. We're pleased that in comparison to the same quarter last year, net interest income and fee income have both increased, our net interest margin has expanded and our efficiency ratio has improved. Our…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our first question will come from the line of from Brian Zabora of KBW.

Brian Zabora

Analyst · KBW

There's a question on the competition on loans side, are you seeing any abatement of the competition? Are they continuing into the third quarter or the calendar third quarter? And how does the loan pipeline look for the held for investment side?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · KBW

Brian, this is Donavon. The one piece of relief we're seeing today in comparison to the June quarter is in pricing. You'll note that the tenure has backed up a little bit from where the lows were in the June 2015 quarter. And as a result, pricing has become much better from our perspective as it relates to kind of an absolute low that will end up putting a multifamily or commercial real estate loan on our books. So that's improved. Structure is -- of the loan is still very competitive. We have larger lenders doing interest-only loans in that product type. We have lenders who will forego personal guarantees from some of the sponsors or all of the sponsors in the particular loan. So I think structure remains very competitive. I think pricing has become a bit more favorable to us.

Brian Zabora

Analyst · KBW

Okay. And then also, you had a gain on other real estate owned, was that -- was there one credit that was a major contributor or were these several credits that you've ended up selling for a gain?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · KBW

There was one specific commercial real estate property. It was a dental office prior to our taking it back in foreclosure. And in fact, there were junior liens against it. So they were wiped out for the foreclosure sales. There was a good piece of equity in there for us when we ended up selling it essentially to another dentist, who is going to be opening an office there.

Operator

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Lucy Webster of Compass Point.

Lucy Webster

Analyst · Compass Point

I wanted to touch base on your loan sale margins. From what we were seeing, they are up for the month of July over the sort of June 30 quarter. And I was wondering if that syncs with what you guys are seeing in the market? Or are you seeing sort of longer-term expectations that you may have?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Compass Point

I think we've always described our loan sale margin in a range, and we typically refer to the loan sale margin of the last 6 quarters in our investor presentation. 125 basis points in the March quarter was the low of that range, and 159 basis points in the Q4 '14 quarter was the high of that range. Our expectation is that we will see our loan sale margin come in, in that range for the September quarter as well.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Tim Coffey of FIG Partners.

Timothy Coffey

Analyst · Tim Coffey of FIG Partners

When we look at the portfolio of loans held for investment, did you see any kind -- extraordinary paydowns or payoffs this quarter?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Tim Coffey of FIG Partners

No. In fact, I think, payoffs for the quarter -- this year, for the June quarter, were actually down from payoffs in the June quarter of last year. It's in our earnings release, but my recollection is it's something like $30 million in the June quarter of this year and it was something like $40 million in the June quarter of last year. So we've actually seen payoffs actually come in a bit, or decline a bit, in comparison to last year.

Timothy Coffey

Analyst · Tim Coffey of FIG Partners

Okay. And the second question -- if you look into mortgage market, your expectations for the Mortgage business in the second half of calendar 2015, how do you think it will be different or similar to what you saw in the second half of calendar '14?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Tim Coffey of FIG Partners

What's your forecast of interest rates?

Timothy Coffey

Analyst · Tim Coffey of FIG Partners

That seems to be the prevailing backdrop at this point?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Tim Coffey of FIG Partners

Sure. I think the issue becomes the balance between purchase money activity and refinance activity. And we even saw in the June quarter that our refinance activity declined a percentage of total volume, but our total volume actually went up because purchase money activity did increase to some degree. In fact, just anecdotally, it's not a number that we publish. And in fact, we don't describe it typically. But the June -- the month of June was the highest purchase money month that we had over the past 18 months. And it's probably even more -- even longer than that, but that was the information I received from our mortgage banker when we were talking about it. So the way we think about the back half is we think refinance volume will decline, but we think purchase money activity will increase. And I think that's very similar to what the MBA has come out with in their most recent revision to forecasts. In fact, they expect volume in total for '15 to be above their original forecast, and they've increased their volume for fiscal -- for calendar '16 as well. And they've troughed it up to an increase in purchase money activity.

Timothy Coffey

Analyst · Tim Coffey of FIG Partners

Okay. And how is home affordability in the foreclosure mortgage business?

Craig Blunden

Analyst · Tim Coffey of FIG Partners

It's not getting better, especially along the coast, as you're probably aware. It's becoming less affordable. However, it does help us in some of the other areas that we have mortgage offices because it drives the buyers, certainly, inland and we can serve them very well. So -- but the numbers have really turned around from 2008 to now.

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Tim Coffey of FIG Partners

Yes, and I think, obviously, interest rates rising will hurt affordability to some degree. And then maybe a larger component of that for us is the fact that home prices have appreciated so much in the California markets. Both of which drive affordability down, however, affordability is still better today than it was in the peak, prior to this credit cycle. And -- so much of it will be dictated by what employment growth looks like and what general economic activity looks like because I do think there's some pent-up demand with respect to purchase. And frankly, a little blip up in interest rates may actually get people off the dime to purchase homes.

Operator

Operator

And the last question in queue at this time comes from the line of Tim O'Brien of Sandler O'Neill Partners. Tim O’Brien: So comp costs, salary and benefit costs were up a little bit here in this last quarter relative to the trailing quarter. Can you give a little color on some of the influences there?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

The largest influence was with respect to loan origination volume -- held for sale loan origination volume. That was up in comparison to the prior sequential quarter. And as a result, our comp costs were up as well. Now when I'm looking at it from a sequential-quarter basis, overall, operating expenses were essentially flat to the March quarter, but they were up significantly in comparison to the June quarter and that was more related to the volume as well. Tim O’Brien: And then occupancy dripped it down a bit, was there anything you guys did, either -- did you get some lease relief or did you close an office, or why was that?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

I would have to look -- yes, I would have to look specifically, but I don't recall an office closing or anything of that nature. We could have had leasehold improvements being fully depreciated in a particular office or something of that nature, which could have allowed that cost to drift down a bit, but I think it was a relatively small number. Tim O’Brien: And then, also -- it looked like, from a credit standpoint, there was a meaningful uptick in nonperforming loans in your single-family residential, is that right?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

Yes, there were -- when we look at the NPAs, and we'll drill down specifically to understand why NPAs increased, it was all in the loan portfolio. And I think there were 5 new net SFRs that went to nonperforming status. We drilled down, we looked that each of those, there was no specific trend with respect to the reasons. One was a relatively recent production, I think, within the last 18 months or so. In that particular case, it was a divorce and so they're selling the home. And then the others were all relatively older from an origination standpoint, and it ran the gamut. We had one that was a TDR that had gone back to note status, that got into trouble and is going to end up walking from the property. We had another incident where the borrower was essentially fully leveraged with the first, second on the property. He had a job offer else well. So he simply vacated the property and moved, and we're going through the foreclosure on that. In each case though, we don't expect large losses to occur relative to those 5 new SFRs that became nonperforming during the quarter. Tim O’Brien: Are those properties in California?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

Yes. Tim O’Brien: Near Riverside?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

Not necessarily. There was one in Northern California, in the Bay Area, that was the divorce situation. The others, I don't specifically recall what the geography was. Even by geography, I didn't notice a trend. Tim O’Brien: And then last question. I think you alluded to this in the press release, Craig, about being reinvigorating or -- you didn't used that word, but on the commercial banking, within your commercial banking business, maybe doing some hiring or something or revitalizing that or taking a run at it -- running out the gate in the first year. Can you give a little bit of color, Craig, about prospects for generating preferred loans here on a go-forward basis, and what you guys want to try to accomplish here in the new year?

Craig Blunden

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

Sure. We've been looking for new commercial loan officers and have been interviewing and starting to hire some more, which will give us, again, some increased present in our marketplaces to add more portfolio loans in the preferred loan area.

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

Yes. At the end of the day, it gets down to the success of your originators with respect to how successful you may be in origination volume. And it is relatively competitive out there. And one of the things we're going to end up doing is putting on new hires in that area to originate more volume for us. Tim O’Brien: Can you give us kind of footings on that? Like, at the end of the fiscal year, what were your production? How big -- what was the size of your production staff for preferred lending, so that next quarter we can see how things settled out -- successful you were in the -- on the hiring process? Would that be all right to get from you?

Craig Blunden

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

You're looking for a net number of how many more originators? Is that what you're looking for? Tim O’Brien: Yes. Did you add any originators this quarter? What it -- how many originators did you end the year with?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

I don't have a specific number for you. But we ended the June quarter with the same number of originators that we ended the March quarter with. Since the end of the June quarter, we have hired 1 new originator, primarily in the construction loan area and he started -- in fact, Monday of last week was his first day. But we've had many more interviews with respect to others. And we anticipate that finding that right person maybe a bit difficult, nonetheless, throughout the remainder of our -- this fiscal year, fiscal '16, we're interested in putting more originators onboard. Tim O’Brien: And one last question, and you mentioned this in the narrative. Interest-only loans on -- you talked about walking away from some deals where the competition was offering interest-only loans on -- was it Commercial Real Estate or multi or both, Craig?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

Yes. That was both. Tim O’Brien: So can you talk a little bit about -- and that -- and whoever is doing that, they're not kind of an incidental participant -- they are major competitor and market shareholder in those spaces in Southern California. Is it meaningful or is this kind of...

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

These are meaningful players. These are large lenders. They're not community banks, necessarily. But some of the larger lenders are able to do that. And the dilemma with that is these larger lenders have come down market. And prior to the credit cycle, we didn't see these lenders in the $1 million to $5 million loan space. But those lenders are active in that space now. And because their loan size is so small relative to what they generally do, they have been able to loosen underwriting a bit. Tim O’Brien: So what kind of rate can you get? Just generalize there, what kind of rate can you get on a multi-interest-only loans? And once the lock -- what's the fixed period on that loan? How -- what's the structure of a loan that you've seen out there that you think is attractive to a borrower and where they're getting traction?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

They will price up for the interest-only nature. They will, in fact, they'll price up as well for the release of guarantors. And that will price up 25 to 50 basis points. But we've seen 10--year interest-only structures where it will balloon in 10 years. Tim O’Brien: And are they advertising pricing on that, like you can get this at 4%, something like that?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

Yes, I mean, we see the pricing typically on their rate sheets, but they're not advertising that in the Los Angeles Times, if you will. Tim O’Brien: That's not been actively marketed, but it's a viable product that their production staff is used -- making headway with?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

Correct. That's the way to think about it. Their production staff has the ability to generate that type of production. Tim O’Brien: Is this new -- is this a recent kind of occurrence or has it been around for a few quarters?

Donavon Ternes

Analyst · Sandler O'Neill Partners

The interest-only is newer, although, we've heard about it in other markets, but that's kind of a newer thing that we've been seeing.

Operator

Operator

There are no further questions in queue at this time.

Craig Blunden

Analyst · Tim Coffey of FIG Partners

I want to thank everyone for joining us on our conference call, and look forward to speaking to all of you again at our next quarter call. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude our conference call for today. On behalf of today's panel, we'd like to thank you for participation in today's fourth quarter earnings teleconference call, and thank you for using AT&T. Have a wonderful day. You may now disconnect.