Earnings Labs

Pentair plc (PNR)

Q4 2008 Earnings Call· Tue, Feb 3, 2009

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good morning. My name is Anita, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time I would like to welcome everyone to the Pentair Q4 2008 Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions). Thank you. I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Todd Gleason, who will be followed by Randy Hogan, CEO and John Stauch, Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin the conference.

Todd Gleason

Management

Thanks, Anita, and welcome to Pentair's fourth quarter earnings release conference call. We are glad you could join us. I'm Todd Gleason, Head of Investor Relations. And with me today is, Randy Hogan, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and John Stauch, our Chief Financial Officer. On today's call, we will provide details on our fourth quarter and full year 2008 results, as well as update you on Pentair's outlook for 2009. Before we begin, let me remind you that any statements made about the company's anticipated financial results, are forward-looking statements subject to future risks and uncertainties, such as the risks outlined in Pentair's 10-K as of December 31, 2007, and Pentair news releases. Forward-looking statements included herein are made as of today, and the company undertakes no obligation to update publicly such statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances. Actual results could differ materially from anticipated results. Today's webcast is accompanied by presentation which can be found in the financial information section of Pentair's website at www.pentair.com. We will reference these slides throughout our prepared remarks. Any reference to non-GAAP financials are reconciled in the appendix of the presentation. I would also like to point out that all financial results and references to year-over-year numbers in today's call and presentation are on a continuing operations basis, unless otherwise noted or highlighted. As is our custom we will reserve time for questions and answers after our prepared remarks. I will now hand the call over to Randy who will take you through Pentair's fourth quarter and full year 2008 results provide his perspective on the results of businesses and the market we serve and provide an overview on how we are driving to deliver results in 2009. Then John, will conclude our formal comments with additional information regarding 2008 financials and more color on our 2009 outlook. Randy?

Randy Hogan

Management

Thanks Todd, and thank you all for your joining us today. Let's begin by reviewing our fourth quarter results shown on slide number 2. What started out as an uncertain economic environment quickly became a quarter mired in rapid market declines. Our original forecast did not predict this unprecedented decline, but when we understood the magnitude, we shared our observations, we set the bar and accelerated additional cost actions. Here are results. In the quarter we delivered reported earnings per share in continuing operations of $0.22 which includes non-recurring items predominately associated with the restructuring actions we announced earlier in Q4. We will discuss these items later in the call in more detail if you remove those items which is the basis of our guidance, we delivered $0.41 of EPS on an adjusted basis. The $0.41 is down 21% versus the $0.52 in the fourth quarter of 2007 and is at the mid-point of our $0.40 to $0.42 revised EPS guidance we provided in December. Pentair's fourth quarter sales of $768 million were 5% below the $807 million in sales we generated in Q4 2007. Fourth quarter sales in our Water segment were down 6% year-over-year. Declines in each GBU reflect the sudden and significant volume declines in global markets. In December we completed the sale of our Spa and Bath business which is reflected in discontinued operations in the press release. Until the first quarter, divestiture of our National Pool Tile business the sale of this non-core business allow us to fully focus our core businesses. Our Technical Products business declined 2% in the fourth quarter versus Q4 2007. This 2% decline is in start contrast of a 13% average growth rates we had experienced in the first three quarters of 2008. While we had initiated aggressive cost actions…

John Stauch

Management

Thanks Randy. Please turn to slide number 10. we have been using this slide the last few quarters, so you can reconcile the GAAP to non-GAAP EPS results for 2008. Let’s review, on the top of the slide, we show our GAAP or reported EPS results for the fourth quarter and full-year 2008. As you can see we generated $2.59 for the full-year. This is up over 20% versus the $2.12 a full-year EPS in 2008. Moving down the slide, the middle section shows the major adjustments that brings us to our most comparable performance related earnings per share for the fourth quarter and full-year. The first adjustment is the $0.86 per share gain we recognized in the second quarter 2008 in the formation of Pentair residential filtration along with GE. The second item, which is the $0.14 charge also relates to a second quarter action when we settled the 1994 horizon legal case. You can see both items are in the full-year 2008 column as there was no impact in the fourth quarter. The final adjustment is the $0.33 of restructuring charges we took in 2008. We took $0.19 in the fourth quarter which is shown in the first column. We already taken $0.14 to the first three quarters of the year. Thus, the total three years is a $0.33 per share shown on the slide. As we will discuss in a few minutes by taking these $0.33 of restructuring actions, we will significantly improve our cost structure. These adjustments bring us to the $0.41 of EPS for Q4 and $2 of EPS for the full-year of 2008 or $2.20 for the full-year of 2008. The 2007 figures are on a continuing operations basis reflecting our sales both National Pool Tile as Spa and Bath in 2008. Those are…

Operator

Operator

Yes, sir. (Operator Instructions). Your first question comes from the line of Michael Schneider of Robert W. Baird. Your line is open, sir.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Good morning guys.

Randy Hogan

Management

Good morning, Mike.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Maybe first we can address the cost savings way down on slide nine, you layout the headcount reductions we are going to save your 85 million annually. I am just curious is that at the end of the year, what would you actually expect to realize in 2009 of the 85 or you said the number?

John Stauch

Management

Well clearly the 85 is what we expect and so the 85 million reflects the 2009 benefit, Mike as it pertains to those headcount reductions.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay, than still one in the 2010 would be roughly how much?

John Stauch

Management

Probably, another $10 million to $15 million or so.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay, so if you bare with me for a second and in an elevator right here, if you add up the savings on slide nine, you basically get to $145 million and your operating income assumption for the year at 350 is down call it $41 million. So, I am trying to understand if you take $41 million of decline in operating income and add back the $145 million in savings on slide nine, it looks like you are assuming decremental margins now on this 10% revenue decline of about 55%, which seems extremely sever given what’s going on even over the last quarter, and then certainly given your historical decremental margins. I am curious in that savings versus decline in operating income what I maybe missing or why 55% is the assumption for decremental margins?

John Stauch

Management

I don’t think you are missing it, Mike. The way we have put together the plan Randy and I and Mike Schrock as we laid it out and said, we got sales minus material and let's look at that variable contribution margin, and let's assume that's cost. And let's count on two forms of productivity and this is productivity, we can absolutely see, which is lower purchases and lower payroll. And let's put behind this the challenges capturing it by lien or capturing it by program, or initiatives and so we put together what we think is a tight plan that reflect sales minus material over our payroll reduction and our purchase reduction. And that's what we have guided people to and that's what we are reflecting here today.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay.

John Stauch

Management

We did incremental savings, I mean I think we would feel that would also triple to the bottom-line.

Randy Hogan

Management

We are not going to predict where the market goes. I mean we wanted volume. I talked before, if I try to put volume on the upside. Frankly, who knows where to start there, it would be uncertainty in the markets though. We are trying to stay focused totally on what we can control as John just described well.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay and then just two questions also on your assumptions. So the material savings of $40 million, I believe there is about 3% on your raw material purchases, I just compared that to 2008 on slide seven you called out that inflation costs you $113 million? Are those two numbers comparable?

Randy Hogan

Management

That's total inflation.

John Stauch

Management

That includes labor increases and material increases. For a simplistic view though, Mike, you can do 50-50 roughly.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay, so the material savings you expect to get in '09 don't even fully reverse or undo the inflation you experienced the materials in 2008?

Randy Hogan

Management

That's correct.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay. How do you arrive at the 3% number when we have got steel down massively, we have got copper down massively, I am just curious how you arrive at the 3%.

John Stauch

Management

We planned that closer to 2, Mike, and two things that factor into that, one is, we did a price lock last year in steel, in technical products which gave us a little lift in Q1 or we are buying below market rates. We crossover in technical products, sometime late Q1 or early Q2 the material savings.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay.

John Stauch

Management

So, it’s really taking the percentage change and only counting on about three quarters or a little bit more than 2.5 quarters of benefit. I think you would agree, we have to rollout the variances from our balance sheet. And the new productivity and new purchases are little bit delayed as you have to build the inventory ship the inventory then you recover them.

Randy Hogan

Management

We didn’t have so much inventory wouldn’t take so long.

John Stauch

Management

That’s fair, Randy

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

And the flip side of that is the pricing assumption, you have got revenue down 10%. What amount of pricing have you baked in there?

Randy Hogan

Management

We roughly are looking at around flattish price and the only price that we counted on as price that’s contractually in. If we took that, we would be looking at about 1.5% to 2% up, Mike, and then we are counting on probably between now and in the end of the year having to get some back.

Michael Schneider - Robert W. Baird

Analyst

Okay. Alright, thanks again guys.

Randy Hogan

Management

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Alex Potter of Piper Jaffray. Your line is open sir.

Alex Potter - Piper Jaffray

Analyst

Thanks. I was just wondering if you could comment first of all on foodservice, it seems in the release today that foodservice was down and I was wondering at least at the Analyst Day presentation its seem like very impressive presentation and that it seems like there was a lot of energy savings and water savings benefit they call on for this kind of all total solution approached to food service offering. I was wondering why that's not attractive in the current economic environment?

Randy Hogan

Management

It was actually down low single-digits in the fourth quarter which was the first time it's been down in ages. We love our products, we love our market position but you can't deny what's happening. If you look at the three different segments in food service the faster the medium priced sit down in the high end, you can read about how they are struggling. There is few at the low end that are doing well and we will do well with them. And our globalization is going well but you can’t deny what's happening with the other restaurants chains. With that said, I like our competitive position as I like our new products. What we have done with that team is we have broadened the focus from being just food service to being food service in the hospitality. So, we are actually cutting deals for broad-based supply agreements with some of the larger hospitality companies, which I think are going to be the source of growth for us. But even with all of that we are not assuming that we can do much more than gain share because you can't deny what's happening in the restaurant industry.

Alex Potter - Piper Jaffray

Analyst

Okay. Fair enough. That’s good to hear that it wasn’t down double-digit or something. Okay. And then also if we could just switch gears to residential flow. I was wondering what it's going to take for residential flow to turn around. I mean it's basically just going to stronger housing is that the story?

Randy Hogan

Management

Basically that’s the key. We kind of a mix bag in the fourth quarter, the pro channel in residential flow was down a lot which was inventory being adjusted, actually retail was strong because there was some early flooding in winter as they came up, so actually retail came up. So, the key is going to be housing. That said most economists think that housing is going to be the key to the whole turn in the industry. So, I believe that's true, the fundamentals say that should be true, question is when? There is a lot of water yet to go under the bridge before I will see the residential market turning. So, what we are doing is we are focusing on getting our cost structure right. Getting our channel strengthened. And being there so when the market comes back, that's both in residential flow and in residential [features]. So that's really what we are talking about.

Alex Potter - Piper Jaffray

Analyst

Great. And then I guess on the topic of trying to get things when the economy turned around. My last question here is, there is obviously you made clear that you are just going to be focusing on things that you can control and things you can predict. There is a lot of uncertainty right now in terms of the stimulus package. But we are just wondering how you see Pentair as being positioned to benefit if and when something eventually doesn't pass the congress?

Randy Hogan

Management

I don't know where it is today. But that has been targeted some $45 billion to $50 billion to go to water. We through industry associations are engaged with understanding that. We have a team set up to track those things to make sure that we get our bids in. And I think we can win more than our fair share. We are the most US centric supplier for that equipment. If it goes into waste water plans or goes into water supply plants anything that requires pumps or filtration equipment. I think we will do fine. I am hopeful that there will be a lot of that. I am also not building my plan based on it.

Alex Potter - Piper Jaffray

Analyst

Okay, great. That's all I have got thanks.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Christopher Glynn of Oppenheimer. Your line is open, sir.

Christopher Glynn - Oppenheimer

Analyst

Thanks, good afternoon.

Randy Hogan

Management

Hi Chris.

Christopher Glynn - Oppenheimer

Analyst

On your slide 12 of the different vertical markets, it looks like the US raise your replacement flat-to-down. One of the more optimistic forecast among the different verticals could you go into what’s behind that at all?

Randy Hogan

Management

Well residential replacement if you think about our business whether, this is water right we don’t have residential and tech products. Basically, if your some pump breaks in the basement and you have lot of water in the basement it doesn’t matter if you have a jug or not have a jug, you can go get a new pump. If you need a well pump, you are going to get a well pump, that’s what the replacement market is. Even on the Pool side, when we talk to people in the channel, people pumps break on their pool; they are still going to replace it. So, it's fundamental how people operate and it’s true with filter too. The filter system breaks that generally it will replace it. The only reason it's not up, it’s typically is all based on price, but we are going for price and we are expecting some inventory drawdown in the channel.

Christopher Glynn - Oppenheimer

Analyst

So, I guess what are going to do this year and it sounds like you don’t really project any remodel impact in it?

Randy Hogan

Management

It was flat and flow actually in the fourth quarter was a little up, the flooding related business we would call that replacement that goes into the replacement category. One is, flooding and people run out by pumps.

John Stauch

Management

Retail has been at low inventory levels for sometime and it does go to the retail channel as well.

Christopher Glynn - Oppenheimer

Analyst

Okay and then on Mike’s comments dissecting the earnings guidance teasing out decremental, etcetera. It sounded like part of the reasons for the build up was the fact that you simply know exactly what the volumes trends will be throughout the year. Is the EPS range sensitized to more dramatic volumes or above the narrow range that's kind of referenced?

John Stauch

Management

I think the better way to think about it, Chris, is that we are taking a look at it sequentially, right. So if you take a look at Q4 and you are brining into Q1. We would assume that things don’t get better than somewhat we have seen in December and January. That we continue to see the inventory corrections in the channels and that we continue to see some cautious views as far as taking product either for capital reasons or just through the distribution channels. If you then take that sequentially and you go forward, the question is what happens and what we do about the seasonality that we usually get. And we usually do get some seasonality of Pool, it's always a Pool season. Just a matter of how we get in.

Randy Hogan

Management

Always has been.

John Stauch

Management

Always has been. We are hopeful it happens again. And then we tend to see seasonality in Q2 both in technical products and also across the Water businesses especially in Europe this is more [shippable days]. That will be a good gauge as to where the year is going to play out. And I think as we started to exit Q2 we are going to get a clearer picture with the back half of the year. So, I would say that we feel we have got tons of cost actions that put us squarely in that range. And we control those and that’s what Randy was talking about and that’s what we are focused on here. We are probably going to go after more labor than even what we have got identified. We want to make sure that we are utilizing the full options in our plans as most of businesses have to not build inventory and to manage the cash position. We got some room in interest as we continue to pay down the debt. And then we will give an update kind of where we are again in Q2. So, those markets are the uncertainty right now, we can't predict.

Christopher Glynn - Oppenheimer

Analyst

And then just lastly. The first quarter margin impacts obviously a lot of different things seems like significant under absorption. First we expect to see inventories come down a lot and second what's kind of netted out for some restructuring benefits in that quarter and what's the exit run rate I'm guessing $25 million in the fourth quarter?

John Stauch

Management

I am trying to get, I am sorry. I guess the quarter you are referring to.

Randy Hogan

Management

You talked about the end of the year.

Christopher Glynn - Oppenheimer

Analyst

Yeah, just tell me the impact on margins in the first quarter from under absorption and what you might get with those inventory levels?

John Stauch

Management

When we exited Q4 directionally we had about $13 million to $15 million of factory variances on the balance sheet that need to be respond in Q1 and that's reflected in our number. So, the easier way to say that not take into accounting exercise the first $13 million to $15 million of inventory burn doesn't get you the new pricing. Right so the material that better than that and purchase better doesn't get experience until we work through that and that's what you are seeing in Q1. That will all be gone by the end of Q1 and then you start to see sequentially better than that, so, that's a minimum.

Randy Hogan

Management

Right. One of the other things is we have taken production levels down we believe in the first quarter that will help keep from passing more brains through to the next quarter we are trying to get production levels down, so we don't keep just passing this forward, right. That's in the quarter.

John Stauch

Management

That's obviously pretty good as well, Chris.

Christopher Glynn - Oppenheimer

Analyst

Okay. Thanks for the help.

Randy Hogan

Management

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Brian Drab of William Blair. Your line is open, sir. Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: Good morning.

Randy Hogan

Management

Good morning Brian. Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: Just looking at your top line growth assumptions for 2009 looks I should say top line decline assumption negative 8% to negative 10%. Trying to get a better feel for the break down there, I know you have already threw the answer to one question so that you expect price to be flat. And then, did I hear correctly, that for your FX you are assuming an exchange rate of $1.20.

Randy Hogan

Management

Roughly. For the euro.

John Stauch

Management

Dollar to euro. Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: For the euro. And what would you expect the impact to be on the top line, given that assumption?

John Stauch

Management

Its going to be about $20 million to $30 million roughly. Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: $20 million to $30 million for the year?

John Stauch

Management

Yes. I would call it $30 million. Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: Okay. So, just one percentage point, what you'd expect?

John Stauch

Management

Yes. We're going on different ways here, right? So, you got the Canadian dollar, you have the US dollar. But we built a plan, dollar, euro is most meaningful to us. Right now, its about 27 today when I looked last. We built offline in about 20. So, I think we got a little cushion before we would see that impact. But you have also got the Canadian currency, you have got the Australian dollar, all of these move forward. So, I'm calling about $30 million make sure about a point of revenue reduction related to currency. Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: Okay. Then on, I guess I have not taken into account all the other currencies as much as I should, but I would have expected that that would have been, it would have been a much bigger impact. But year-over-year in 2008, the exchange rate was favorable to you by about 3%?

John Stauch

Management

No. If you go with me, you could do the math just to reverse that. If you go to Randy's slide, where he talked about full year Pentair performance on page 7, you could see the impact of the currency was $51 million favorable. Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: Okay.

John Stauch

Management

Okay.

John Stauch

Management

On the revenue side? Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: Yeah.

John Stauch

Management

You can do kind of calculation there, it rounds to two points but nothing and so if you take a look at where it is this year, most of Q4 was less than $1.30 to the euro we have experienced in, in the first part of the year, okay. Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: Okay, sounds good so in terms of volume when your, I guess if you could say that you are expecting to be down in the high single digit range and also. And then one last question could you give us a break down of volume and price for the segments for the most recent quarter here in Water and in Technical Products?

John Stauch

Management

That's on the chart as well. Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: I think you just have total growth with no break down.

Randy Hogan

Management

Right.

John Stauch

Management

The price in Water about 2%. Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: Okay.

John Stauch

Management

And probably Technical Products is about 2% to 2.5%. And just one point of clarification just to make sure you have it right Brian. You think price in 2009 are zero. That basically, just that you know means that we give up price in 2009 because the tail end of our price actions for 2008 would naturally give us about 1.5 of price in 2009 with well tell us if its right you are getting the same. Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: Yeah.

John Stauch

Management

Yeah. Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: Okay.

John Stauch

Management

So let's take data that we basically have some price erosion naturally happening. Brian Drab - William Blair & Company: Okay thank you very much.

Todd Gleason

Management

How many more do we have in the queue because I think we have 5 minutes left.

Operator

Operator

Yeah, few more in queue.

Todd Gleason

Management

Okay let’s go ahead finish them.

Operator

Operator

Okay. And your next question comes from the line of Scott Graham of Landenburg, your line is open.

Scott Graham - Landenburg Thalmann

Analyst

Good afternoon.

John Stauch

Management

Hey, Scott.

Scott Graham - Landenburg Thalmann

Analyst

There are several questions for you on when you do your walk through on the operating margin by segment, can you guys explain how operating income has green growth graph boxes to them when we have.

Randy Hogan

Management

I got to answer this.

John Stauch

Management

Yeah, bet. You got to answer this one, go ahead Randy?

Randy Hogan

Management

Right. When they gave me the chart, I had the same question. Basically, our volume is down, but price was positive. Price has a 100% margin, so that's how that works. So the growth on the op income side, growth includes the acquisition, it includes volume growth and it includes price, so that's how it works.

John Stauch

Management

If I do the math, you said 40 percentage on the conversion of the downward side of volume, and then you add back the price component 100% as Randy said, that's how you get small positive for growth.

Scott Graham - Landenburg Thalmann

Analyst

That was pretty good conversion. Next couple of questions are, any chance you guys can give us an idea what the restructuring charge assumptions are as we roll through 2009?

John Stauch

Management

Yeah. Right now we have taken some sizable actions in the tail end of 2008. And so everything that you are seeing today encompassed in the slide has been taken and accrued for as we exited 2008.

Randy Hogan

Management

So Scott, our outlook for 2009 is that we are only now going to be doing the pay as you go expenses, which is $1.70 to $2, so as we move assets and other things that we are just now, we call that pay as you go, we are not going to charge that off.

Scott Graham - Landenburg Thalmann

Analyst

Okay, so when you say in your press release that the heightened restructuring activity in the first quarter, back to pay as you go. Those are not charges?

John Stauch

Management

Correct, things like scrap, its negative efficiencies on moving it from one plant to another, it’s a physical relocation cost of the capital expensing and its consulting contracts related to ERP migrations et cetera.

Scott Graham - Landenburg Thalmann

Analyst

Here is one for the, maybe the longer term which will be nice to talk about converse at the current environment, you guys have some very healthy expectations to grow out to size of your addressable markets and here we have, this 15% reduction in employee headcount and 17 factories to be closed which I think is up from my 12 or 13 from when we last checked in with you guys and that's great for the current environment because that obviously gets us closer to $150 million savings number versus where you have previously so. But the flip side of course is that in 2010 and hopefully maybe even later this year, when we really want to drive, look to drive the organic through the addressable market strategies. How does that impact us, I mean, how does that impact that strategy and I think just as importantly if volume does improve late in the year, how does the so many closures there are taking place right now, which are probably easier to do on volume declines. How does that, does that dynamic change does that put you in some jeopardy manufacturing wise and does that slow the addressable market strategy.

Randy Hogan

Management

Yeah, let me take that and John you can add to if you want to. First, while we have not talked about the 17 plants they were always in our plan. We through acquisitions we have assembled some nice businesses. But we always had too much structure and it’s always been we have too many, we have had too many plants. So the 17 plants were always on the agenda. What we done is we pulled them in, in particular our Sheboygan and our Cypress factories. We pulled in because of the near-term reality where volumes were. So, we always wanted to reduce our structure and continue to grow in particularly in best cost country and in growing country. So for example, we are increasing our capacity. Right now, we are investing to increase our capacity in our cold line vessels for ROD sale, because we know that's the growth market. We are still investing there, we are still investing in China, we are still investing in our Middle East. So, it's hard on the one hand be taking cost down some places, while you are adding in other places, but we are trying to remain disciplined on that. The second point I would make is, we are on the journey to really become a great company lean creates capacity. Also our cost structure is such that we are not huge capital compared a lot of industries, so we can ramp volume just by adding back overtime, adding back temporaries and adding shifts. So from the production standpoint, we can ramp up pretty well. I would say after we are done with this, we can still probably going 15% without really a lot of capital. There maybe some bottlenecks in a like, but I think that we will be okay from that capacity. Then there is engineering, we haven't cutback engineering that much. We in fact, I would like to get back to continuing to invest in engineering. So that's how we are thinking about it. Mike and John and I and the presidents are committed to being in a position to grow when it ends. And I hope you are right, I hope we actually can talk about growth by the end of '09. That's how we were planning on them.

Scott Graham - Landenburg Thalmann

Analyst

And there is nothing that you feel Randy that you have done here that will impact these addressable market strategies. You are still incrementally adding some people in feet on the ground kind of thing in the markets that you think are the markets that you should be in?

Randy Hogan

Management

Yes. Now not in the states, not in Western Europe, and we are not adding feet on the street there. But we know we are keeping our investments in China and keeping our investments in India, even in technical products which has gotten lagged and downturn, we are still investing and building a plant in India right now. So I am committed to grow again, but what we have to do is persevere through this.

John Stauch

Management

And Scott, just to dive a little deeper here, if you could recall, and look at our analyst presentation, I mean our G&A is heavy. So a lot of the numbers you are talking about here in G&A they are not in sales and marketing. And in fact, we are very careful as we peal back the onion and looked at the headcount reductions. We went lighter in sales and marketing and lot heavy in the G&A. And then a lot of the one-for-one reduction and the factories are falling out. And what you are seeing here is also netted investment in Reynosa, which is a best cost country production facility for us as well as Suzhou. If you look at the capacity levels of both those plants right now, there is still excess capacity.

Randy Hogan

Management

Well we created more of that, where we sold Spa and Bath. Spa and Bath coming out of a factory and free up space for us.

John Stauch

Management

But I want to add by saying it's a great question, and that's what we are looking as an executive team. And as we continue to look further out and the economy continues to be challenged further out, those are the types of questions we are asking ourselves.

Randy Hogan

Management

And I really look forward to proving that we can do this. That’s going to be a lot of fun.

Scott Graham - Landenburg Thalmann

Analyst

You sound like you have a lot of confidence on the course side, and I think in this environment that's good enough for me. So, thank you.

John Stauch

Management

Alright, thank you. Anita, if there's no more questions.

Randy Hogan

Management

Is there one more?

John Stauch

Management

Is there one more?

Operator

Operator

Sir, there is one more if you have time?

Randy Hogan

Management

We will take that one.

John Stauch

Management

We will take it.

Operator

Operator

Very good. That question comes from the line of John Quealy of Canaccord Adams. Your line is open, sir.

Chip Moore - Canaccord Adams

Analyst

Yeah, thanks it’s actually Chip Moore for John. Follow-up on that last question a little bit, if you can provide me with some little more color on our export markets. Obviously that's held up relatively well versus the US recent quarters. Just maybe you can talk about the visibility you have there, particularly the Middle East, China, etcetera.

John Stauch

Management

Yeah. When you look at the Middle East, actually Middle East, we serve residential in the Middle East, residential is down in the Middle East. So to give you a sense of the fact that residential is a global phenomenon, and it's even slower in Asia than we would like, as we are a big player in residential. But commercial and municipal, municipal is ruling strong actually for us in terms of backlogs and order rates. We haven't really seen anything flagged there yet. In fact, we have opened up a whole area in Australia, the Philippine and where we are actually bidding municipal jobs for the first time, and we are very hopeful that that will be a positive. Now these are small numbers, they are ones and two bids. But it begins that way right? So municipal, we haven't seen any weakness yet. Commercial, the shipments are good, we are seeing order rates coming up even in Middle East still up at year-over-year, but not at the same rate. So, we are seeing some deceleration, if you will, in Middle East on the commercial side. But then again, we still have a lot of share to get. I still, I am very pleased with the performance of our team in the Middle East. They have done an incredible job of growing from pretty much being nothing to being 2%, 3% of the company now. And then in China, still growing, but at a little slower rate.

Chip Moore - Canaccord Adams

Analyst

Okay. And I know you talked about municipal there abroad, may be domestically, are you hearing anything, or see anything from distributors.

Randy Hogan

Management

We exited the year with highest municipal backlog we ever had.

Chip Moore - Canaccord Adams

Analyst

Okay.

Randy Hogan

Management

But what we are doing in our planning, we are assuming that some of this stuff is going to move out. The amount maybe some of it gets accelerated with if the money goes to the right place and the Stimulus Package, but we are assuming that some of these including some of the commercial projects may move out on us, or get out, right cancelled, so we are cautious. Even through we look at the backlog and we are not saying that.

Chip Moore - Canaccord Adams

Analyst

Okay, great. Thanks.

Randy Hogan

Management

Alright, thank you.

John Stauch

Management

Thank you. Anita, is there anyone else in the queue?

Operator

Operator

No, sir.

John Stauch

Management

I don't want to jump in any conclusions again. Well, I guess we are going to go ahead and conclude if you want to give the replay information that would be great. Thank you for your time, everybody.

Operator

Operator

Yes, sir. And the replay of today's conference will be available starting two hours. To access the replay dial 1800-642-1687, and when prompted use the conference ID number from today, which was 80028855. Again, the telephone number for the replay is 1800-642-1687 and today's conference ID number was 80028855. Thank you ladies and gentlemen; this does conclude today's conference call. You may now disconnect your line.