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PBR.A (PBR.A)

Q4 2022 Earnings Call· Thu, Mar 2, 2023

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Transcript

Carla Albano

Management

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to Petrobras Webcast with Analysts and Investors about the Fourth Quarter 2022 Results. It's great to have you join us today. We'd like to inform you that all participants will follow the transmission by Internet as listeners. After an introduction, a Q&A session will begin. You can send us questions by e-mail at petroinvest@petrobras.com.br. Today, we have with us Jean Paul Prates, CEO; Claudio Mastella, Chief Trading and Logistics Officer; Fernando Borges, Chief Exploration and Production Officer; Joao Henrique Rittershaussen, Chief Production Development Officer; Paulo Palaia, Chief Digital Trading and Innovation Officer; Rafael Chaves, Chief Institutional Relations and Sustainability Officer; Rodrigo Araujo, Chief Financial and Investor Relations Officer; Rodrigo Costa, Chief Refining and Natural Gas Officer; and Salvador Dahan, Chief Governance and Compliance Officer. To initiate, I'll pass the floor to Petrobras CEO, Jean Paul Prates. Please Jean, go ahead.

Jean Paul Prates

CEO

Hello to all of you. It is an honor to speak to you as a CEO of Petrobras at a time when we are disclosing such an expressive and symbolic results for the company. At the same time, we met all our production targets. We advanced in the prospecting of new reserves and in the decarbonization of our operations. We maintain our competitiveness, raising the utilization factor of our refineries, while launching new products with renewable content. All these achievements are extremely important in the complex scenario we live today. As global consumption of foster fuel hits record highs, we must prepare ourselves for the inevitable energy transition. While no one can say precisely how long the traditional oil and gas industry will be dominant, it is indisputable that this moment is getting closer and closer. We will maintain our leading role in oil and gas production, while working to build a new future. Our main goal in the new management that starts now is to make Petrobras an increasingly balanced company, strong and prepared to be the protagonist of the energy transition, drawing on its unique knowledge of Brazil's potential for this growing market. Investment in the renewable energy sources such as hydrogen and offshore wind are already foreseen in the current strategic plan. Our operations in deep and ultra-deepwater put us in a privileged position for the generation of offshore wind energy, even integrated with oil and gas production. We are major producers of natural gas, the transition fuel for hydrogen. We will continue and in responsible and transparent manner, seeking more opportunities to diversify our operation attentive to the societies demand for a fair energy transition, guaranteeing energy that is available, accessible and sustainable for all. I reiterate our ambition to neutralize our operational emissions within a time frame compatible with that established by the Paris agreement. To this end, we have invested in the decarbonization of our operations. We already operate the world's largest offshore carbon reinjection program, and we are implementing a series of state-of-the-art technologies to reduce emissions. We are a company in permanent transformation. We are working every day to make Petrobras a company that is increasingly stronger, more responsible and connected to the future, because we believe this is the best way to fulfill our responsibility to society and to our investors. Thank you very much. Welcome.

Carla Albano

Management

Thank you, Jean. Now I'll pass the floor to Petrobras CFO, Rodrigo Araujo. Please Rodrigo, go ahead.

Rodrigo Araujo

CFO

Thank you, Carla. Thank you, Jean. Thanks, everyone, for being with us today and joining our earnings call for the fourth quarter of 2022. I'm very glad to be here and to report the important and strong results that we have for the fiscal year 2022 and for the fourth quarter of 2022. First, I would like to just show my respect with my colleagues of the Executive Board and with the important work that has been done in terms of deleveraging the company, keeping our capital structure optimized, delivering the relevant projects that we have on time and within cost. As we all know, about 90% of the results and the returns from projects come from the FID and also from being able to deliver the projects on time. So I'm very glad with the work that has been done in terms of well drilling, time reduction, delivering, contracting on time, delivering efficient platforms and projects on time. We have also managed to have important operational results in 2022. We, of course, have reached the highest incorporation of reserves in the history of the company. So that's very important in terms of looking for the company's future. We have also reached the highest utilization factor of our refineries in the last five years. In a year, in which we had relevant scheduled stoppages that were quite challenging to deal with, especially that we're still in an environment where we still facing the impact of COVID-19, not only on the teams, but also on the supply chain. We have also a very important result in terms of our commercial and trading operations in 2022. We were able to diversify our export base not only for the US market, but also for Europe and other Asian markets. We've been able to…

A - Carla Albano

Management

Thank you, Rodrigo. We can move to our Q&A session. And the first question that we received from Bruno Montanari with Morgan Stanley. Bruno also sent us a message, I would like to give you a very warm welcome to Mr. Jean Paul Prates and hope that Petrobras can perpetuate the government's standard design and strengthen over the past years. So, Jean, so the first question is for you. It would be great to hear your thoughts about the company fuel pricing policies. How do you think Petrobras can balance its financial targets and its social role in Brazil? Can the import parity policy be sustained? Still on this topic, I understand you are a strong supporter of the creation of a fuel stabilization fund. Should we expect this option to be the number one choice for Brazil to manage fuel prices and to avoid volatility to the final consumer?

Jean Paul Prates

CEO

Bruno, first, by the last question. I cannot speak as a policymaker or a minister or as a legislator anymore at my new position. The fuel stabilization fund on account was a proposition made in a crisis period -- in a very critical crisis period of the last -- the latest hikes of oil and gas and fuel prices worldwide and also in Brazil and especially, in Brazil during electoral period, et cetera, et cetera. I still believe it would be part of the solution. It's not the whole solution when you talk about government policy, about sectorial policy, about economics, microeconomics in the country. So, this would be to the Congress to decide if this is a part of the solution, if that bill of law that is still in the Congress was approved on Senate wasn't -- went to Chamber of the Equities and is there still for voting. If that can be enhanced or should sleep forever whatever. But in terms of import policy and in terms of what Petrobras would see as pricing policy, again, I should emphasize what I always said to the domestic market to the press, in general, here even before being where I am. Petrobras sells fuels majoritarily in the Brazilian market. So, it has to go with the best, more competitive, the more, if necessary, aggressive policy of price and commercial terms as it can make effective to retain its market shares and its position wherever it wants to stay or whatever it wants or understands as important to be in the Brazilian market mostly. So, it's not up to us to command, to lead, to strongly suggest or anything like that, the pricing policy for the country. We have to deal with our own policy, with our own clients, with our own markets of selection or preference. And this is what basically what we will do. We can help in government policy. We can give suggestions? Yes. We can participate in study groups for that? Yes, -- no problem with that as any other company would do through entities directly, but our role is to take care of our own policy and this is what we will do. Import parity policy is the best price for our competitors. It's not as necessarily our best product price. We have refineries here. We compete in different conditions because we can. And if we need to use these weapons, if we need to use these strategies or tools, we will use them. I think that answers pretty much the question right now.

Carla Albano

Management

Thank you, Jean. The next question is also for you, and it's about temporary taxation of IO exports. Do you see risks of such tax to become permanent in the industry? And even if temporary, does it jeopardize the investment climate in the oil and gas industry, especially on foreign direct investments.

Jean Paul Prates

CEO

Look, I think, especially when we are oil companies, we are -- we have to be resilient and accustomed to government rules to changes in perspectives, especially when we have changes by elections, democratic elections. So the risks are there. Nowadays, I would believe that the risk is more on the government side than in ours. I think the risk of not having this approved, the risk of not having enough votes to pass this – this temporary tax. I believe this -- the origin of this is in the query – in the issue of the – the reestablishment of taxes in gasoline that was recently discussed. So it may have been used as a type of compensation or temporary compensation for that kind of division in the timing of the taxes to come back. They divided into two periods. 75% of the burden would be coming back at first time. and part -- the rest of the burden would be delayed. So this may have been born as a compensation for that. But for us, we have to deal with it. We're not necessarily in favor of that because even in Congress that was clear myself and the company, that's a position that we are mutually understand about that. In Congress, this was not an initiative that I liked. As a legislator, I had the opportunity to take this out of the -- of one of the propositions of legal documents that was -- in which that was included. So -- but anyway, we have to deal with it. Government has a challenge, which is to get support to have this approved. I prefer the expectation of inducing domestic market or domestic sales in other ways. And also, there are certainly other ways of – for the oil…

Carla Albano

Management

Thank you, Jean. The next question comes from Regis Cardoso with Credit Suisse. He also sent us a message. Congratulations to all Petrobras team for another quarter of excellent results. I also take the opportunity to congratulate Jean Paul on his new position and wish him much success. Regis' first question is about pricing policy. The recent discussions about fuel tax hikes has once again put Petrobras pricing policy in the spot line. The company reduced prices this week, but remains aligned with international parity. Does Petrobras intend to change the way it prices products in domestic market. If so, what would be the conditions that this new price policy would need to meet?

Jean Paul Prates

CEO

Regis, I think I pretty much started to answer your question before. But one expression you use is very important to enhance. International parity is one thing. Import parity is another thing. They are very different. I believe nobody is crazy enough today in the world being big in oil and gas to get out of international reference. That is pretty much impossible, unless you are a big exporter and you have a small market at your country and you want to give gasoline or diesel almost for free for other reasons in the country, because you have so much to export that it doesn't make any difference for you, or you are a state company that are not aligned or doesn't need investment partners from the private sector. Otherwise, you have to be consistent with whatever happens in the world with the commodities related to oil and gas. Being said -- that being said, in Brazil for the domestic market import parity, which is apart from outside, the price from outside plus the freight and all the cost to put this at the door of our refineries, this price -- to me, this price is the best price for our competitors, not necessarily for us, maybe the maximum you can reach in a market where you're not disturbed by your competitors. But once you are competitor -- you are disturbed by any competitor, we must move and we must use our competitiveness, our investment, which was made here and has to be paid and remunerated, which is our refineries, our domestic logistics, our competitive advantages in being the leading company, not the monopolistic, not hegemonic, but a leading company in Brazil in the market sector of fuels. So we will operate at our best domestic market price, the most competitive price per region, per point of delivery, per good client or even bad client where we need to do price differentiation for that. That is Petrobras policy of price. It is not a government affair. It's a company affair. And this is up to us to decide. Another thing is the government to decree anything different from that. That may happen in two levels; the government acting as government and this decree or whatever it is, will be valid to all the agents, including Petrobras, but all the agents. And as a second instance, it may be an order to Petrobras as a majority shareholder or a dominant shareholder. And then we will discuss with the government. If whatever command is given, if that is viable, if that is suitable for the company, what are the consequences of that, but I don't believe we would have a problem with that. We will practice. Again, we will go back to practice the best domestic price for our products using all our tools to be the most competitive, most attractive price to our clients. That is our policy.

Carla Albano

Management

Thank you, Jean. The section from hedge is also for you, and it's about strategic priorities. What are your impressions of these first few weeks leading Petrobras? Is it possible to outline what the new management strategy priorities will be for the company, which aspects of the current strategic plan should be maintained and which should be revised?

Jean Paul Prates

CEO

Yes. I'm not coming back -- coming to Petrobras a first time. I'm returning to Petrobras. I know the company. I was here almost more than 30 years ago in the end of '80s, beginning of the '90s. So this is a return for me. And the return to the company and to be back with this exceptional staff, technical managerial teams, the workforce in general puts me and in them, I think great expectations with the great pride and great energy to deliver great news for you guys and for the Brazilian people for our consumers, for our clients in the near future. We will discuss the new strategic priorities together, including with you guys, which are managers of the money of our investors. So we will do these discussions openly, transparently. Certainly, in a big company like this, we don't give big switches. So we do have things in the current strategic plan that will stay there. I would say -- I would risk to say, the majority of them. But we will have our own suggestions, as well, to implement, and we will discuss that together in the due time. We will start this after the stress of these first weeks. We are establishing our teams. We are changing the Board of Directors. We are having -- we will have changes in the Board of Administration and [indiscernible]. So each thing [ph] at the time we already have the teams together. The company is one only company, one only team. So we will work with them and we will deliver some ideas, put some suggestions that they will discuss with you guys and others. And then we will build together this new strategic plan.

Carla Albano

Operator

Thank you, Jean. The next question comes from Luiz Carvalho with UBS. He also sent us a message. First, we would like to congratulate the company's management and team on the solid results. We also would like to congratulate Mr. Prates and wish you good luck in the new role. The first question from Luis is, as CEO, how to avoid conflict of interest between the controller, shareholder minorities, politicians and the company best interest in the decision-making process?

Jean Paul Prates

CEO

Luis, first of all, try to change the orientation. You are the sell guys, sell guy, change that. Well, I think the challenge here, and this question is very good, because it's very common, Luis. Because of the recent past and the not so recent past as well, it is fair to have this kind of impression or conclusion that Petrobras will be subject to politicians, et cetera, et cetera. Not that it was not subject to this in the recent years as well. We had and we have to remember that. We have very recently, 2019-2020, politicians and government making Petrobras to surrender market share in fuels and leaving refineries at half of the capacity. So this is not something that doesn't happen here and there. Now, the big challenge that we have altogether is to turn the participation of government in Petrobras into our favor, not against us, make our investors have the certainty that to be a partner of the Brazilian state is not a disadvantage on the contrary. It's good. It gives us good leads to things. It gives us good dialogues and less risk when we go to a new area, to a new horizon when we discuss legislation, regulation when we are present in the regions, when we have to deliver new projects with the communities, with the mayors with the city councils, et cetera, et cetera. This has to be an advantage. Since it's a reality, and it's not going to change. If somebody doesn't want to be a partner of the state of Brazil, it has other options. People have other options. Then you will be right to say sell. But right now, this is a reality for us, and it never changed. It didn't change on the Lula and the Dume…

Operator

Operator

Thank you, Joao. The second question from Luis is also for you. So, there has been a lot of comments on what Petrobras focus will be particularly with non-core investments. What is, in your view, the optimal portfolio for Petrobras? If we could list a few potential options, -- if you see the company venture into renewable power generation, offshore wind, fertilizers, biofuels, fuel distribution, new refineries or some other sectors. Is there a target in your consideration of how much this could represent of the company's future investment plan?

Joao Henrique Rittershaussen

Analyst

Yeah, Luis, one thing is not to be in the energy transition or being late as we are now. The other thing is talking a lot about the subject and given the impression, which is not true, that we will, all of a sudden switch completely to another type of source or type of business. We will not do that. We need to be focused not only in an operational point of view, but also in financial point of view and in terms of investment put in that, in our exploration and production of hydrocarbons sector. So upstream oil and gas will keep being our main focus, this represents already 83% of our investment portfolio. So it may stay about that. I could try to guess, and this is my responsibility individually that we would not, in the short term, not even in the midterm, go over 20% to 25% of that amount in investments into other things, including refineries transformed into biorefineries or natural gas into new segments, but also on offshore wind or bio whatever components in fuels, et cetera, et cetera, renewables in general. This will not be a transition that will make very fast, but certainly has to be a transition that we effectively have to be done -- doing. We cannot stop one day to think about the energy transition. That doesn't mean that we are going to do the transition, all of a sudden. There's a big difference between these two things. We will look at a way of putting more bio components into our refineries, yes, that is the fastest way of merging the old oil and gas industry or the traditional conventional oil and gas industry into the future. We will search for new segments for our natural gas production, yes, because…

Carla Albano

Operator

Thank you, John. The next question comes from Frank McGann with Bank of America Merrill Lynch. And the first question is for you, Petrobras is expected to continue to generate significant free cash flow. What should be the priorities in using that cash flow? If cash flow is sufficiently strong should the payout above the legal minimums continue to be paid to shareholders?

Jean Paul Prates

CEO

Frank McGann, first of all, I have to say hello -- special hello to Frank McGann because maybe it's the first -- the only guy in this meeting that knows me for so many years. So, -- welcome back my friend. I heard that you're living in Buenos Aires or in Argentina anyway. So, congratulations, and welcome back. Frank, I think the priorities to use cash flow, must be in any company, solid projects. If people wanted to stay with their money in their pockets, they will not invest in companies. So, they invest in companies because they believe companies are an excellent vehicle to multiply their monies with something interesting being done for the society, for humanity and for the countries or for the markets they are interested in. So, I believe the -- of course, this may be sounding very obvious, but this is what sometimes people doubt about when they ask these questions to the new government. Solid projects, excellent and recognized partners together, and that's very important for us in the transition, the energy transition because we may be the best company in oil and gas offshore and et cetera. But we are not necessarily yet recognized as the best company in other things. So, in order to go into these new frontiers, we may be well accompanied by peer companies, not different companies, not smaller than us, but companies that are at the same level, doing the same type of quest into the future than us. And we, above all, as I said already, we should continue doing what we know at best in our core areas, because this is as essential as the transition. And more than that, this is a condition for the transition. Otherwise, we don't know to do anything else than…

Carla Albano

Operator

Thank you Jean. The second question also from Frank and also our last question. It's also for you. Will Petrobras consider expanding in petrochemicals as a further expansion of its downstream segment?

Jean Paul Prates

CEO

Why not. Maybe. Right now to be strict with the rules in general, I would say that I need to approve a new strategic plan. But nothing is ruled out. I mean, when you think about a new strategic plan after looking at what the strategic teams have as historical and as a base to think about as I mentioned several times here, we will talk to people. We will revisit some point of use, and we may go back to petrochemicals. Yes, there are some good opportunities in our screen right now. We have also fertilizers to look at. We have also international activities to look at. So -- and I'm taking this from the -- because I thought Frank was asking this in the Portuguese questions here, talked about internationalization. I think, yes, why not. But we need to, again, solid projects with good or excellent recognized partners will make us go through that, but we will have to decide all this under a new strategic plan that we will start to discuss still. So we will need a little more time to be precise, but nothing is excluded, except if something so different that we never were present at or doesn't make at all part of our efforts of -- historic efforts or visions of the future. But things that were already in our portfolio, things that are complementary or supplementary to the activity of oil and gas or into the side of the energy transition with what we have in hands, offshore abilities an excellent super research center that can develop several things and have already things in portfolio. All that will be used into the strategic plan. We will never do crazy things or things out of nothing. This will all have origins in the company, in the technical teams and in managerial decisions talking to the investors and talking to the -- to our shareholders.

Carla Albano

Operator

Thank you, Jean. Thank you all. At this time, the Q&A session is over. If you have any further questions, you can send it to our Investor Relations team. Petrobras CFO, Rodrigo Araujo will now make his final remarks. Please, Rodrigo.

Rodrigo Araujo

CFO

Thank you. Thank you, Carla. Thank you, Jean. Thanks, everyone, for being with us today once again for the results of the fourth quarter 2022. I would like once again to congratulations to thank my peers at the Executive Board with the brilliant work that they've done and also on behalf of the Executive Board, I think all the investors and shareholders for having placed your trust in us as executives of the company. And I also would like to congratulate Carla for the brilliant work in conducting our earnings call. Thank you once again, and have a great day.

Carla Albano

Operator

Thank you, Rodrigo, very much. And I'll pass the floor to Petrobras CEO, Jean Paul Prates. Please, Jean.

Jean Paul Prates

CEO

Thank you, Carla. No, it was -- I just asked to have a final voice here to welcome all to this kind of conversation. We will make this more often, not only at the announcement of results. I promise that to some of you some time ago, especially the ones that were representing shareholders in Brazil. We hope to meet you each one of you for everyone that is here and others in the next months around the corner or in other places. We were planning to go now to Houston, then another time, we will be New York visiting some of these investors. So we will be together in person or by video, even before changing plans and projects as I said. So this will be very important, and we will be always with the channels open here as much as we are saying that to also our workers, our workforce. These are two things that we will have to have in mind, shareholders and workforce, we will help us -- they will help us to build this future. Thank you.