David Finkelstein
Management
Great question, Rick. So first, I'll say with respect to history, I think a lot of the problems that were exhibited from a liquidity standpoint existed with firms that were overly concentrated in credit sectors. And when you look at Annaly with several assets in the agency sector, we do have capacity to have alternative products and not sacrifice liquidity as was the case, which you saw last March. Now, with respect to CMBS versus the commercial real estate platform, it's largely about efficiency. Look, our commercial real estate business had been on balance sheet for eight years. It was a very solid contributor to the bottom line for Annaly. When we brought it on balance sheet, as I talked about in the prepared comments, it was a great decision on part because of the relative attractiveness of those assets compared to agency at the time. And as the years went on, more and more capital came into the sector, whether it be debt funds, sovereign wealth, insurance companies, and it did get quite crowded, and it became harder to compete for commercial to compete with the agency sector. And as you know, it's a highly operational – operationally intensive business. There's north of 20 people in our CRE operation. And it really has to be scaled to make sure you're generating the right returns. And over the years, 2017, 2018, and 2019, it did become harder to do that as spreads tightened. And as a consequence, the compatibility with agency was a key driver of decision, notwithstanding the considerable contribution that, that business provided to Annaly over the years. Now with respect to CMBS, it's a very efficient, lean business. And we see it within our securitized products framework. So we have resi credit and securitized products and CMBS fits right in there. We have good credit work provide the team and a great trading effort, but it's lean. And we can be very opportunistic in it, and it's likely to be higher up the capital stack relative to some of the things we were doing on the direct lending side.