Thomas S. Gayner - Co-Chief Executive Officer
Management
Right. Well, I appreciate the question. And I think you asked a couple of different questions, which is the appropriate way to do it, because there are a lot of different strands and aspects to fulsomely answering the questions that you're asking about. So, first off, given the overall low interest rate environment that exists, no matter where you are, the need for underwriting profitability to earn any sort of return at all, goes up. You saw excellent underwriting results around here last year, and the targets that would be set, the hurdle rates for people to earn the incentive compensation that they've earned, those have been coming down over the last several years to reflect the business environment that we operate in. So, there is that need for increased underwriting profitability. And that's not a unique situation for Markel, that's any insurance mechanism at all. And while conditions are hypercompetitive in the insurance market as well as pretty much every other business I look at, there is a reasonably rational basis of competition out there. You're not seeing wild cowboys that are operating with huge underwriting losses thinking they can make it up on investment income, because, nobody, I think, is under that delusion and that is indeed different than what might have been the case 10 years, 20 years ago. I think those interest rates are a symptom of the excess capital that exists, again, not just in the insurance business, but in general. There's just a bunch of capital everywhere, so the central banks may have opinions about what interest rates should be, but there's also the fundamental laws of supply and demand, and interest rates are hugely influenced by market factors as much as what central banks might do. Specifically, what we can do as a result of that, as I spoke on the insurance side, we need to make sure that we're operating in a very disciplined fashion and make probably (39:03) more rather than less in the realm of underwriting profits. And on the investment side, for a while, for a couple of years, we had been having a shorter maturity of the investment portfolio than our insurance liabilities, because I was worried about interest rates going up. About mid-year last year, I decided that I was wrong and that as the phrase goes, rates were likely lower for longer. And we started to extend the maturity of the bond portfolio a bit. And in this environment until further notice, we'll operate in a more (39:39) than we were a couple of years before that. Now, once you go out further on the curve, it's not like you make a lot of money, but you can at least chase away the negative interest rate going in, but not a whole lot of fun.