Yes, sure. I mean, I think -- see, first of all, APL who has had an expedited service for three or four years. So this is a service that they've competed against us out of Central China, Shanghai, Ningbo markets. And they have, in connection with seeing the same dislocated expedited air market, had upsized some of their vessels to be able to provide additional capacity. So they've been a participant in the market. And ZIM, who is -- it's operating in expedited service out of South China, Hong Kong, Yantian to LA. So it's, it's not directly in competition with Matson service. We drew some freight from the South China market onto our CLX or CLX+ service, but it's nominal -- the amount of impact. And so what I would -- my understanding is that ZIM is relatively full in South China, and my understanding is that APL is also relatively full. Where the difference has come in, Ben, is they can charter ships. They can run them at higher speeds and match that part, but what they can't do is when it gets to the LA Long Beach area, move their cargo through their terminals as quickly as we can and make them available at this bonded facility at Shippers Transport that -- and so there are days of advantage in service associated with, from shipping until availability. And some of those are focused on the Southern California for complex where we have an untouchable service as it relates to that, that creates transit advantages. So the way I think about this is when Matson ships are full, then they call APL and that's kind of been the way -- it's been, I don't need to be too unflattering to a competitor, but -- and they've done a good job, but, and then they continue to be full, but there continue to be advantages. And there may be others, in the market that's expected. But we have 15 years of track record. We have a brand in China where people -- if something needs to move in the markets, whether it's a late order, whether it's a rushed shipment, whether it's an e-commerce or whatever, they know after 15 years call Matson, and so we're the first choice in this market.