Earnings Labs

LiqTech International, Inc. (LIQT)

Q3 2013 Earnings Call· Fri, Nov 15, 2013

$2.17

+3.83%

Key Takeaways · AI generated
AI summary not yet generated for this transcript. Generation in progress for older transcripts; check back soon, or browse the full transcript below.

Same-Day

-1.19%

1 Week

-2.77%

1 Month

-12.65%

vs S&P

-13.56%

Transcript

Presentation

Management

Operator

Operator

Greetings and welcome to the LiqTech International 2013 Third Quarter Financial and Operational Results Conference Call. At this time all the participants are in a listen-only mode. A brief question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. (Operator Instructions). As a reminder this conference is being recorded. I will now turn the call over to Mr. Stephen Axelrod, Managing Member of Wolfe Axelrod Weinberger Associates. Thank you, Mr. Axelrod you may begin.

Steve Axelrod

Management

Thank you Jena and thank you all of you who are listening to this call for joining us to discuss LiqTech's third quarter fiscal 2013 financial results. Before LiqTech management Aldo Peterson, Chairman and Finn Helmer, CEO begin their formal remarks, let me remind our listeners that following the discussion there will be an open Q&A session and that a replay of the conference call will be available from 3 o' Clock Eastern time today through November 28th of the same month. The replay information will be found on today's release. And as usual the reading of the forward-looking statement is necessary and note that the conference call contains forward-looking statements. Although the forward-looking statements in this conference call reflect the good faith judgment of management, forward-looking statements are inherently subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to be materially different from those discussed in these forward-looking statements. Listeners are urged to carefully review and consider the various disclosures made by LiqTech in its reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission including the risk factors that attempt to advise interested parties of the risks that may affect LiqTech’s business, financial condition, results of operation and cash flows. If one or more of these risks or uncertainties materialize or if the underlying assumptions prove incorrect, LiqTech‘s actual results may vary materially from those expected or projected. Listeners are urged not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements which speaks only as of the date of this conference call. The company assumes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements in order to reflect any event or circumstance that may arise after the date of this call. I would like to introduce Mr. Aldo Peterson, Chairman of LiqTech International who will discuss the current results and other matters of interest. Aldo.

Aldo Petersen

Management

Thank you very much, Steve and very welcome good morning to you who are listening in from the U.S. and good afternoon to the Europeans who are listening in. Yes we have announced our third quarter and as is obvious we're continuing the same trend as we have had in the previous quarters. We have a substantial decrease in our DPF business but as will be discussed later we see light at the end of the tunnel in the DPF market but it's substantially down. The positive note on this quarter is that we have a 38% increase in our water business being that our membrane business have advanced 38% compared to the same period last year. We are showing a loss of a little more than $900,000 but as is obvious most of the loss is related to non-cash issues. We stated that in the last conference call that LiqTech is at a breakeven level at around $17.5 million which means that we will have to increase our sales but we think that we have made a stride to do that. And with these remarks I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Finn Helmer who in more details will go through the progress in the different business areas. Finn?

Finn Helmer

CEO

Thank you and good afternoon and good morning to everybody. First a little bit general on the company. We discussed last time that we're working on a lot of improvements in the production and they are slowly showing results and that means first of all we are preparing and progress in [ ] we're improving that, but we're also improving the quality of our products and we talked last time on the development of the 10 and 4 nanometer membranes which I have [] -- what can be done on -- and those developments are progressing, we're now talking to customers, big customers that are testing the first samples and based on that we are actually participating in a big European finance project where we have been granted 500,000 Euros for the project that are aiming at separating oil and water in such a way that the water is clean and the oils that are removed can be used for other things, one area is for instance olive oil where instead of wasting the part of the olive oil that is in the water still we can save it and at the same time we will have some clean water to dispose instead of polluted water. So, this is development that would run over the next year to year and half but in the mean time we expect to have at least the 10nm membrane finished and ready for production. We are also developing the disc membrane we have talked about earlier and disc membrane has actually created a bit of a stir in the market, we have customers knocking on our door to get them but we are not finished with the development but in a system that are using disc membranes you can actually achieve 30 to 80%…

Aldo Peterson

Chairman

Finn, thank you very much, and I think I am very sort of confident by the fact of the progress that we have made, it is especially in the areas where we have had a major setback being in the DPF, it is very comforting to see that the California the carp is starting to generate business that we have received the first orders from our big customers in California, but even more promising is the opportunity in Beijing in China, as most of you know, to do business in China is a very long process and you have to be very close to your customers, Finn was in China three weeks ago and we have our Singapore office involved in the cooperation and with the indication that we see in the five year plan for Beijing we see a significant market opportunity, in the DPF market, in China as well so I hope that after five quarters of serious headache around DPF that we have come to see, that there will be significant business. The delivery of the first membrane structure for the first system is very comfortable with FMC, the indication of them having more systems to come very quickly makes it very comfortable for us that we are ahead of the time schedule that we initially activated with FMC which means that we believe that we will see a faster roll out than we initially expected back in March when we entered into this agreement. Also to live up to our expectations of two or three major agreements before the end of the year, as Finn has indicated we signed two very significant agreements with very, very large oil companies in the US. We are still working at two of the very significant orders that or agreements…

Operator

Operator

(Operator Instructions). Our first question today comes from the line of Gary Zwetchkenbaum from Plum Tree Consultants. Go ahead with your question please.

Gary Zwetchkenbaum - Plum Tree Consultants

Analyst · Plum Tree Consultants. Go ahead with your question please

I would like to congratulate you on the approval for the listing on New York Stock Exchange. And I can't relate to focus on the liquid membrane business; going forward this quarter in 2014 you stated in your release that liquid membrane sales grew to 49% of the total which was a 38% increase in the quarter. Could you give guidance on the increases in liquid membrane business to the fourth quarter 2014 and beyond? Could you focus, outline the areas as in oil and gas desalinization, ballast water, clean coal, China, and FMC as you have mentioned?

Unidentified Company Representative

Analyst · Plum Tree Consultants. Go ahead with your question please

Yes and if we look at the different business areas here we are very comfortable that we will see an increase in revenues in the fourth quarter and in coming quarters and if we look into the different business areas being ahead in our timeframe with our corporation with FMC and the work that our technicians are doing together with their R&D in [?] in Holland and for the use of our membranes in other applications than the fracking build. We are very comfortable that we will see a significant amount of business from FMC in 2014. So being ahead of that schedule it will be a significant amount of dollars that we will see from our FMC. We are also very, very confident that in our coal plant starting out in German and our sales team is very focused on what is happening in Germany and is talking these test results into other areas it’s one of the most interesting areas and as Finn was describing the two different business opportunities -- of either sales systems to the end users where we will have a 50% plus margin on membranes but more importantly get into the business partnering up with different system integrators on delivering clean water, establishing the renewable income model that will really make a great input for the LiqTech business model so that is what we are very committed on. When we are looking at the flat sheet membranes the opportunity that we have in Saudi Arabia and the Middle East is as you have heard huge and going through the test unit and the approvals of the Saudi government which we are certain will come within the next coming months that will bring a huge amount of revenue into LiqTech. Desalinization is a huge area for us as well we have a number of projects and when Finn was discussing the improvement on the membrane technology that is directly linked to our increase in business in desalinization it is still the ambition of LiqTech to be able to produce a good enough membrane so that on membrane technology alone you can do the desalinization today our desalinization business is being part of desalinization systems so it is something that will bring meaningful business into LiqTech. So when I see the 2014 outlook for LiqTech what I am at last able to be optimistic around is that we will a significant increase in the DPF business if we can get California to start working and add on what is happening in Beijing now I think we have a very good chance to expand our DPF business but if we are looking at our water business our membrane business we are very confident that we will see a very, very substantial increase in revenue in 2014.

Gary Zwetchkenbaum - Palm Tree Consultants

Analyst · Plum Tree Consultants. Go ahead with your question please

Can I just ask you a question you talked about this liquid membrane business is a 50% margin versus 25 in DPF so are the increases is it possible that this 50% margin can increase, can it go higher than 50% I think you mentioned there were possibilities?

Finn Helmer

CEO

Well it of course depends on the development of the market but it is mostly a system cost that are driving this market but by improving the yield and reducing the cost of our production it will of course give us a chance of that. This will ensure we are going to be getting to volume production because as you are probably aware before you have volume production it is difficult to get a constantly high yield because there goes time between each production and then the yield is fluctuating. So we got potential yes definitely.

Gary Zwetchkenbaum - Plum Tree Consultants

Analyst · Plum Tree Consultants. Go ahead with your question please

Thank you I look forward to seeing you in New York although.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of John Gay, with the Quiet Investor. Go ahead with your question please. John Gay – the Quiet Investor: Congratulations both of you on the average you’ve made in some of the different markets. I was curious on whether the flat sheet membrane is the key to a single process of seawater into drinking water or is there something else that needs to be done as well?

Finn Helmer

CEO

I think what you ask us is the flat sheet membrane is the only one you need to clean seawater and if that is the case the flat sheet membrane is sitting as pre-filter before the reverse osmosis filter. But that combination is actually from a system cost very efficient because using a silicon carbide membrane before the reverse osmosis membrane would makes the life time of the reverse osmosis membrane longer before we have to change it and also the flux through the membrane will be higher. So therefore some of our customers are actually preparing to change the pre-filtering to flat sheet membranes just in order to improve the management of the system and the run of the system. Because of course the systems are very complicated and they are very important when they’re running you can’t just stop producing water, so to get a better security they would change to flat sheet membranes, or [indiscernible] membranes in some of the cases where we also cleaned saltwater with those depending on the usage. John Gay – the Quiet Investors: Can you actually go straight from seawater to drinking water with your products you’re not going through reverse osmosis or is that no possible?

Finn Helmer

CEO

At the moment it’s not possible but as Aldo mentioned it is our task and our dream and the development that I talk about was 4 nanometers is actually part of a project that are bringing us closer and closer to that point. We have to go from 4 nanometer type of membrane to a 1 nanometer membrane before we can actually do that. So if I should take a rough guess from the development speed we have and the steps that we are taking at the moment, I would guess that within two or three years we will be able to make the first samples that are capable of doing that if it is at all possible. But we believe it is and we believe we can get there.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Louis Margolis from Select Advisors. Go ahead with your question please.

Louis Margolis - Select Advisors

Analyst · Louis Margolis from Select Advisors. Go ahead with your question please

My question is one of those 30,000 foot questions. You mentioned a significant amount of money coming from FMC you mentioned a huge amount of money in flat sheet membranes coming out of the Middle East, significant business coming from DPF. Yours is a small company with modest resources, great technology, great product; does it make sense for you to explore what are the pros and cons of exploring a strategic partner with some sort of a global footprint? Yours is such a small company and you’re accessing such giant markets. I would assume some of your potential clients are saying can we really rely on this small company? So maybe a strategic partner with that global footprint would be a good idea.

Aldo Petersen

Management

And yes, it’s a very good question and what LiqTech has been doing and you’re addressing the exact risk factors that are in a small company’s business model. But what LiqTech has been doing to offset the concern from our customers and we see proof of that concern is being lifted in the partnerships that we have been setting up with FMC. And the two partnerships that we have been entering into now has been done because of the fact that our production capacity in the two plants and we own ourselves in Minnesota and here in Copenhagen and the third plant that we have accessed to here in Denmark as well brings our production capacity up to handling approximately seven, eight times the volume that we have today. So we have established a production capacity that will allow us to produce up to a $100 million in revenue from membrane sales and that is one of the strongest issues that we have towards the very large corporations that we are now dealing with. So you’re absolutely right that is a concern with the idea of setting up a strategic partnership in the current situation. We are inspired by some of the input that we have seen from the market. We are describing ourselves currently to be what you could call a biotech company who have come up with this very-very interesting new technology and it is very important to not jump into partnerships on the ownership basis too early because the experience from the market has been that if you develop high quality technology you will end up being acquired by some of the big water companies. A company that we very familiar with is a company called Xenon, a Canadian company that was developed from zero revenue and…

Louis Margolis

Analyst · Louis Margolis from Select Advisors. Go ahead with your question please

I was not suggesting selling the Company. I was suggesting a partnership to help market the products.

Aldo Petersen

Management

But that is very difficult issue because if we’re looking at the potential partners in that area, it is typically also the companies who are active in the membrane business. So an honest answer is that we currently would like to expand our strategic partnership from now the three big ones that we have into maybe a dozen of those partnerships and that will make sure that our business model has a lot of growth potential.

Louis Margolis - Select Advisors

Analyst · Louis Margolis from Select Advisors. Go ahead with your question please

Could you put some numbers around what it means significant amount of business from FMC in 2014 to 2015? Does that mean more significant . . .

Aldo Petersen

Management

The significant business FMC would be to get to around $10 million in systems. The original business plan was to build the first test unit then build another five systems and then a total rollout. If we can get to about 20 systems in 2014 that would be very significant because that would bring us close to $10 million in revenue from that partnership alone and we’re talking similar numbers with some of the other business areas that we’re involved in, so the big partner that that we have just signed the MoU with this October is a business potential in the same line. Some of the oil companies that we already working with, companies like Total and Petrobras, has the same business opportunity for the 2014, 2015, so the whole strategy around signing up those large partners is that they will bring business in the volumes of $5 to $10 million on an annual basis and this is why we are pursuing that strategy and are comfortable that we are very progressed in 2013 although our numbers are significantly impacted by the decrease in DPF business, because if you compare the DPF business we have lost about $10 million in DPF business in 2013 compared to 2012. When we get that business back and that is why this development of seeing business starting coming back from California and business coming in from Beijing in China shows us that we are probably bottomed out in the DPF business and that we can see significant improvement in that business in the coming quarters.

Louis Margolis - Select Advisors

Analyst · Louis Margolis from Select Advisors. Go ahead with your question please

What quantity of business in dollars goes into working with one of these coal plants? You mentioned there are 2,000 coal plants in China, what type of revenue per coal plant, now I understand that could develop over 10 or 20 years but what kind of revenues per coal plant.

Aldo Petersen

Management

What we've been working on in Germany on the three test systems is that the membrane business per system is between a $100,000 and $200,000 on each system. The specific customer that we have in Germany operates 38 different coal plants, so that alone indicates a business volume of around $5 million in membrane sales but more importantly if we can get into a water treatment agreement where we deliver a specific amount of cubic meters of water at a specific price then we will have a recurring revenue stream as well and that revenue stream could be in the 100’s of 1,000’s of dollars per year so what we're aiming for is to get our margins from selling the membrane into a system operator that we will partner with and then share the income from the recurring revenue on water treatment and if we can make that model work so that we could receive say a $100,000 per system on an annual basis then in a fully-deployed business in Germany alone we could be looking at close to $4 million in recurring revenue on a yearly basis. And it's all of those opportunities and as we have stated on several occasions we think that we have developed a membrane that is much better than anything on the market, all the tests that we have been involved in shows that, and that brings us to believe that we have an Intel business model, we are the membrane inside systems. We do not tend to become an expert in oil or an expert in waste water, ballast water, desalinization, we are an expert in delivering that chip that goes into the system which is why we compare our business model to the Intel model. But as is obvious when you develop a new and better product it takes a really long time for companies to qualify your product because we are working in areas where mistakes are very, very costly. So our customers is very, very diligent on using our technology and this is why it takes significant amount of time to get these contracts. But why we're also very proud that we are now getting these large contracts and co-operations with our partners.

Operator

Operator

There are no further questions at this time I’d like to turn the floor back over to management for closing comments please.

Finn Helmer

CEO

I would like to thank every one of you for your support in LiqTech and we look forward to improving our business and look forward to be in touch. As always if you need to have further information you're more than welcome to contact management so I bid you a very good day in US and a very good evening in Europe, so thank you very much.