Welcome everyone to the Kaspi 4Q and Full Year '24 Financial Results Webinar. My name is Brieka and I will be your coordinator today. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the call over to David Ferguson from Kaspi to begin today's presentation. Please go ahead, David.

Okay, thanks, Brieka. Good morning. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. It's our fourth quarter and full year 2024 financial results. I'm David Ferguson from Kaspi. Joining me on the call are CEO and Co-Founder, Mikheil Lomtadze; our Deputy CEOs, Tengiz Mosidze and Yuri Didenko. Standard format for the call, Mikheil will run you through strategic update of 2024. I'll run you through the financials. We'll open the call up to Q&A. The whole team is available to participate. So, on that note, over to you, Mikheil.

Thank you, David. Good to have you all on this call. Just to give you another reminder of the Kaspi Super App business model and this incredible range of diverse services for consumers and merchants. And just to - again just to remind those are, we run the two Super Apps. One is for consumers, another one is for merchants. We connect the experiences of both through the payment network, marketplace, fintech, financial services. And on the consumer side, there is a huge range of the services which we continuously innovate. So, I mean some of the things I will cover later in the presentation, but things like gift certificates, for example, which we have been - we launched last year. And again, consumers can shop, pay, manage their finance, delivery through our consumer Super App. And then on the merchant side, we've mentioned the merchant side will be a strong pipeline for innovations for merchants just to help them grow their businesses become more efficient and really help them to onboard to the marketplace, but also get access to the financing of their business. So as merchants grow and merchants are successful, we are successful and actually products of those merchants being either paid or - for or purchased through the consumer Kaspi.kz Super App and some of the products which we have also launched and have been scaling this year are quite exciting things like deposit for business or buy now - buy inventory now, pay later products as well as around in advertising and some of the product innovations we have later in the presentation. But just to remind everyone, unique business runs, two Super Apps with wide range of the services around daily needs of consumers and merchants. Just on the fourth Q numbers. So, we…

Thanks, Mikael. So I'll run you through the financial results for 2024, guidance outlook for 2025. So starting on the payments platform foundation really of the business, the overall message from this slide is that payments growth remains strong and actually highly predictable and consistent throughout the year. So this is volumes, volumes up 33% year-on-year in the fourth quarter and up 40% for the full year. Ongoing strong volume growth reflects the strength of the respective products. Ongoing growth in the merchant base, it was up 27% year on year for 2024 and a healthy end customer environment both consumers and merchants. Consumer balances in wallets were up 22% year-on-year. Volumes then translate into TPV growth. Again, the drivers here remain very, very predictable led by QR and B2B products. B2B in 2025 will continue to outperform. Mild take rate dilution. That is a reflection of changes in mix QR and B2B becoming more important in the mix and lower take rate products and that dilution is consistent for those of you who have followed us since 2020. That dilution is consistent with long run trends. In terms of what that then means for revenue, lower take rate year-on-year and also lower - as what happened over '24 interest rates for 11 months of the year moved down, that meant lower liquidity revenue. So the result is overall payments revenue growth below transaction growth, but still up 23% for the year, up 19% for the fourth quarter. Again, for those of you who followed us since 2020, consistently with payments, you've seen tight cost control, operational gearing, top line dropping through to the bottom line in 2024. That remained the case. Bottom line growth of 22% in the fourth quarter versus 19% revenue growth and 24% for the full…

[Operator Instructions] Okay, so Brieka, let's take Darrin from Wolfe's question first please. Darrin, your line is now open.

Thanks, guys. Nice job exiting the year in this growth format. Can I just ask about guidance for a moment? I mean, when you look at the 20%, I guess there's puts and takes both on the fintech from a net income standpoint and interest income standpoint. But more and more importantly the drivers, really the drivers that you're looking at exiting the year are materially higher than what you're implying in your underlying growth assumptions from a KPI standpoint, just looking at marketplace GMV expected, I think you said 25% to 30% or even payments in the 15%, 20% versus the exit rates. Can you just touch on maybe what's conservatism built in versus any implications or factors that are going to drive some sort of a deceleration in those manners on those KPIs or is it just size of the business?

So thanks for your question, Darrin. I'll make two points and then maybe Mikheil will want to add something. So, the first question is guidance conservative, is guidance aggressive? Just take it on face value. That would be sort of my advice and I wouldn't sort of over - try to overinterpret. That's one simple point. The second point more specific to your question, I think that all the trends that I've just described there in 2024 pretty much you can assume carry forward into 2025. So, for example, on payments, we talked about sort of a great diluting long run trend as Kaspi QR and B2B grow in the mix. On fintech again, we talked about yield dilution as certain products grow in the mix. These things are sort of what explain the difference between top line and bottom line. And then also again particularly I think on the fintech, I think the scenario situation we're in today is different to where the world was three months ago. Three months ago, when we had this call or four months ago when we had this call, we were talking about rates potentially continuing to move down, a nice tailwind to fintech bottom line, actually not only are they not moving down, but they've just moved up or they moved up at the end of last year and we'll see what happens over the next couple of months. So that's clearly a change in the outlook, but overall 20% guidance versus '25 last year is a reflection of the scale of the business.

Great. Okay, that's helpful. And then so it sounds like it's really just a lot - the larger base more than anything underlying in the business changing much. And then my follow up would just be on - a quick follow up on Turkey and Hepsiburada, just - maybe just remind us of the timeline and your hopes. What are you hoping to see in terms of integration and opportunities there and just further internationalization more broadly by the end of this year and maybe into '26? Broader question. But I know that was - it was great to see the closing of that in just a couple of months ago.

Mikheil, do you want to add anything on Hepsi or Turkey?

Well, I mean, not - I mean, just to kind of repeat myself, it's a big market. We do see a lot of opportunities in the mobile services and on the merchants, the consumer side. So yes, I mean, we're - it's a good strong foundation for us, the country's economic policies are providing its positive effect of normalizing the inflation and the macro-outlook with - as it happens with this type of changes, the consumer sentiment might be a bit challenging during the year. But yes, other than that, we are - yes, we are excited about the opportunity and Hepsiburada serving 12 million consumers, sort of 100,000 merchants is a good platform. And we are also considering launching the exporting services as Kaspi itself. So yes - so it's - in general, it's really exciting market, very similar to Kazakhstan from the consumer dynamics perspective. But again, David said that and I said that Hepsiburada is a public company, so they will focus on their own numbers. And yes, we're just - we'll be focused on the quality of the products, innovations and things like that, which Kaspi has a very strong track record of executing. And keep in mind, we're like three, four weeks, right? We just closed transaction January 29th. And there is one thing also to keep in mind, I think everybody who has been with us for many years, we always prefer the results talk for ourselves. And I think that would be the same approach. So it's not like - I think we just want to…

Great.

Yes. Work on the products, work on the services, work on the consumer, on the consumer - and merchant services quality, but also innovations and launching some services and again including Kaspi launching its services itself on a standalone basis.

Got it. All right, guys, thanks very much.

Thank you. Your next question comes from James Freedman with SIG. Please go ahead.

Hi, good afternoon. Good morning. So I just - you had some observations about the macro environment in Kazakhstan. If you could just reiterate what it is that you're seeing and anticipating? I know there's been a lot of movement in interest rates, but also on the inflation front, sometimes that could be a good guy, bad guy. Anyway, any perspective that you're sharing on Kazakhstan, macro would be helpful.

All right, James. So I'll just take macro very quickly. So I think, again, simple message here is that we see for the most part a very sort of stable, predictable environment with consumer trends, consumer and merchant trends consistent really with the last sort of 18 months, if not longer. And I guess ultimately the evidence of that is you can look at the guidance payments, payments is a big business for us and in the context of the country and growth is still sort of this year guiding for 15% to 20%. So that is indicative of those sort of volume numbers we showed you for both marketplace and purchases that is indicative of, at least in part, it's not just macro, but in part sort of stable macro in environments. That's the main factor. I'd say there's the one caveat. I wouldn't overplay it. It's really only relevant for our fintech business. And it's probably just a sort of a timing issue, the combination of sort of currency weakness. Currency weakness translates into higher inflation. Higher inflation translates into interest rates moving up. That's sort of the only real change that I can point to over the last couple of months. But again, let's not overplay that. I think it's not inconsistent with sort of global trends that inflation is moving down more slowly, that rates are moving down more slowly. And the good news is that rates and funding costs for our business are high. And so whilst it may be timing and take longer to come down directionally, I think it's still a reasonable assumption over the next years - next few years that they will come down and that will have potential to be a nice tailwind for the business, maybe not in 2025, but in '26 onwards. So, let's just see how things evolve over the next couple of months.

Yes. And David, just to add also the sort of temporary or end of the year interest exchange rates increasing, I think it's also was very encouraging. And to see and the testament to the national bank and the government that they patiently sort of walk - work through this process and it was basically the - driven by the market and it was - yes, it was very encouraging to see that the three market and exchange rate flexibility actually - eventually it improved. So the exchange rate now is back below or around 500, about 5% less than it was end of the year. So that was - yes, that's good. Well, sort of well-managed, but also it was pretty much the market sort of driving up and down which is testament to the patience of the government and national bank doing it, like managing this properly.

And then one question about Hepsiburada. I'm sorry, go ahead, Mikheil.

Yes, just one thing also to keep in mind that Kazakhstan is not immune also from the regional geopolitical trends. And that also obviously perception of investors is there and that has its own impact as well, positive, negative, whatever it is. It clearly has played its own factor in the dynamics. So just this to keep in mind as well. But you know this better than me, of course.

And then in terms of Hepsiburada. So one question we get is about the margin characteristics of their business versus your business. Is that a conversation or assignment that Kaspi will be engaged with or is that all under their auspices? We're just trying to figure out who's authoring the margin messaging.

James, if I understand the question, I think now you should - let's not over sort of complicate it. Hepsiburada's management reporting to Hepsiburada's board. Kaspi controls Hepsiburada's board. So any company, it's a conversation between senior management and the board on all aspects of financial performance. It's nothing different at Hepsiburada versus any other sort of company.

So is there a plan to drive margin expansion in Hepsiburada?

So again, the same comments. Hepsiburada reports quarterly. It provides quite detailed updates on its strategy. Its strategy can evolve and it needs to be communicated by them. But I think it would be unfair on Hepsi's other shareholders if we said that they have to listen to the Kaspi call to find out what's going on at the company that would not be the appropriate way for Hepsi to communicate.

Okay, got it. I'll drop back in the queue. Thank you.

Thank you, James. We now have Ygal Arounian with Citigroup. Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning. Good afternoon. Maybe first just to focus on the marketplace segment and in the letter, Mikheil, you talked about that continuing to be the most important growth engine this year. Got a number of initiatives that are still pretty early. As we think about this year, maybe this year, next year, are those the key initiatives that we should expect to be the major focus? Are there new initiatives that are kind of coming down the pike? How should we think about that? And with - I know it's early on Hepsi and Turkey and kind of all the things you talked about, but is there a plan or intention to kind of roll out products like auto and grocery and some of the newer ones that are working really well in Kazakhstan, out in Turkey as well?

Yes, good to hear from you and thanks for the questions. In terms of the marketplace, the way to really think about it is the way that historically and as we also sort of explained this trend before, both consumers and merchants, they initially come to our payments business, then they move to the m-Commerce and then eventual destination is e-Commerce. And this is both true for merchants and consumers because e-Commerce is actually much more advanced, fully digital experience, fully online, fully mobile, like 100%. There is no offline part of it apart from us actually managing the delivery in the real offline world. So from that perspective, the nature of the marketplace growth and also the fact that the services of the marketplace and especially e-Commerce are the least penetrated. So those are the factors which will support the growth of the marketplace. Again, if you look at the previous years, our payments was growing faster than our m-Commerce was growing faster and now e-Commerce. So this is the value chain that you see. E-Grocery sort of being the least penetrated businesses, has the biggest potential. And - but we are in the type of business which operations of our grocery, operations of our e-Commerce which means the window for the grocery and also the marketing guys have - we have been doing and the consumer experience, we all have been doing this incredible job of generating highly satisfied consumers, which means they are staying with us and they're highly repetitive. Therefore, the only or the major limitation to the growth of the grocery is actually us creating the - entering the cities, building the dark stores and run - starting to run the operations and basically providing the suppliers to these dark stores in terms of assortment…

Okay, just a quick follow up on that. You just explained the rationale, what the advantages in launching Kaspi standalone versus rolling everything up on there, Hepsi. What would be Hepsi product? What would be a Kaspi product?

Well, I mean, we are looking for - we are looking for ability to launch the services. It does matter who is launching it, right. So if there is ability and there is a knowledge and technology to launch the services, we'll be taking those opportunities. There is nothing sort of short term in this. But again, our target is to launch the services and provide services to the merchants and consumers. That's our goal.

Okay.

And where the services are born or where the service is being developed, it really depends where the capabilities are and where the knowledge is and technology and experience.

All right, understood. And one more quick follow up on the macro. I think you probably know better than at least I do. So just like to understand. You talked about the investor perception on the geopolitical trends and if the regional conflict kind of comes to an end. What's the reality in terms of the Kazakhstan consumer and their exposure to the conflict and how much healthier they might get if that does come to an end? Thanks.

Do you mean if the - you mean if conflict is over, what impact that would have on Kazakhstan consumer? That's the question.

Yes. Well, I think in general, I mean, I would say that it will - I mean, of course, it will have positive impact on numerous fronts, right. I still would put in front of everything that I think the - I think peace and for people in the region, I think all of us have - again, I mean it's just - I mean, peace is good for everyone and I'm highly confident that the geopolitical stability in the region will have a very positive impact on pretty much every countries in the region and consumer side. I'm not there with anything that you can add to this, but I do think that it will have a multiplier effect and it will have - it will be positive for everyone. I mean, most important, people will stop dying. That's as far as I'm concerned, but also for the countries and economies, I think should be positive for the whole region.

Yes, I mean, I can't really add much on that. I mean, I just would add that I suppose, keep in mind that from a political perspective, Kazakhstan has navigated a very challenging situation I think admirably over the last couple of years. So that's one point I would make, but I think beyond Mikheil's points on the sort of the human impact it would, this would manifest itself in just broader geopolitical de-risking across the entire region. So from a risk perspective, a risk normalization perspective, it clearly would be helpful.

Understood. Thanks.

Thank you. We have next question from Dan Mikhaylov with Vergent Asset Management. Please go ahead.

Hi, Mikheil. Hi, David. Congratulations on the results. I just had two quick questions on Hepsiburada. When we look at Hepsiburada, one thing that stands out they were - that they were among - I think they were the first in the Turkish market to do credit in e-Commerce. I think they were the first ones to launch BNPL products. They've applied for a deposit license. What do you think? In your analysis of the company, what do you think you guys can do very differently to the Hepsiburada's existing management in sort of making sure that the credit franchise actually translates into meaningful growth. And the second question, do you plan to kind of what's like - do you plan to keep any of existing senior executives at Hepsiburada or will you be bringing up lot more Kaspi people to run the business as you become more familiar with it?

Mikheil, is there anything you can add on those please?

Yes, sure. I think I did actually respond to this also on the previous call. So our goal is really to build the - yes, to build in capabilities on the ground. There is no intention whatsoever. We're not the usual sort of strategic guys which just come in and suddenly start teaching everyone was the best way to do business. I think Hepsiburada on a standalone basis has a very strong management team that delivered profitable, sound growth and have worked through the very challenging times and they've - together with the previous founders and the shareholders, have done a job - a remarkable job which is a strong foundation for us to take forward. So we're not in the business of - we're in the business of creating the incredible products which are innovative and improved people's lives and they're mobile driven and technology driven. We are in this business and there is a wealth of knowledge which can be shared between the teams. And again if there are some products which can be launched, will be focused on the launching of those products. That's - we're like - we're a product company, so we're not - Kaspi is not the political animal corporate structure. We're extremely lean. And from that perspective, no. There is no intention whatsoever to start flying people. And it's also expensive. I'm just kidding. No, there is no such intention. I think we'll be - we're very happy and - yes working forward to - looking forward to work together with Hepsiburada team that have done a very good job last several years. In terms of the - and then there was a question about - there was a question about the credit. Well, I mean we will see, right. The credit is a good product, which Hepsiburada also has developed. At the same time, the market in Turkey is very wide from that perspective. And there are also financial institutions and the banks that provide products. Yes, so we'll see. I mean we always - I mean you always should keep in mind that even though we are innovative and we innovate on the things which are trialing and needed for consumers and merchants. So if we see innovation is needed on the credit side, we'll look into it. But again, we follow consumer, we follow merchant, we make their lives better and it's an exciting opportunity. There are a number of things that can be done on the digital services, mobile services side for both merchants and consumers. And it's a big market. And, yes, so we just - we'll put our heads down more and hopefully the results will speak for itself, but we don't want to - I don't know, David, how to say it, like walk and talk or what's the expression for this?

Yes. Look, it's easy to promise a million things. I think what you should look at is how we've reported on Kazakhstan over the last five years. We provide update - we provide updates on real execution, not promises. Everything you sort of saw in the first part of that presentation was real initiatives that many of which you'd not even heard of 18 months ago, that are now being rolled out and have got strong momentum behind them. You should expect more of the same going forward in whatever market we're talking about.

Yes. And then - and just the one thing to add that Hepsiburada is e-Commerce company. So that's the core expertise and the core knowledge, which is a good foundation and the platform. So largely a very, very strong, very experienced e-Commerce company.

Thank you. We now have Gabor Kemeny from Autonomous. You may proceed.

Hi, team. A few clarifications from me, please. The first one is a higher level question on your guidance. So the 20% profit growth you guide is just a slight slowdown from what you deliver last year. Whereas we - if we look at the volume dynamics, those suggest more of a slowdown. So my question is that where do you see margins improving and what is driving that? I believe you indicated fintech margins possibly coming down this year. So that would leave us with marketplace and payments. Any color would be useful here. The second one is on the currency, which has been volatile. You mentioned it has bounced back a bit, but I think still 6% weaker against the dollar than it was in 2024. I guess the question is, do you have any hedges, any balance sheet position we should be aware of or shall we translate the FX moves to your P&L one to one when we think about it in dollar terms? Yes. And my last question is on Hepsi, is resuming the dividends in the second half dependent on the buyout of the minorities? That's it from me. Thank you.

David, I let you take it.

Yes. All right, Gabor. So I'll do them I think in reverse order. So, on buyout of minorities, I think I would simply just say there that at this point in time, we are focused on - we just closed the initial sort of 65%. We've made an initial payment. We have a remaining payment to make over the next six months, which will take us up to sort of 1.1 billion. That's our focus. There's no proposal on the table for anything else today. So that's important to be aware of that. And again, that point - there's different things that can happen across the business. You've highlighted one, there are multiple other sort of moving parts. In the second half of the year, we'll be in a better position to take into account, everything can make a call at that particular point in time. Again, our track record, I think shows if we have excess cash, we return it to shareholders. We've said quite clearly here. We can look at both dividends and or buybacks. And we'll update on the second half of the year. In terms of minorities, there's really not no proposal on the table today. So that's your last question. Question on hedging. No material hedging in the business. That's a sort of simple answer there. Largely this is a tenge revenue, a tenge cost business for the most part. On your first question, again it's similar to Darrin's question. So again, I think I can only sort of reiterate the volume trends will be very, very strong in the business this year. I mean, you think about our scale, marketplace growth of up to 30% year-on-year, payments growth of up to 20% growth year-on-year. These are decent volume numbers for a business that's north of $2 billion in net income. So the business is big. The growth is still forecast to be strong. I think ultimately you just have to look at the complete picture. So if 2024 was 25% growth, it's probably an unrealistic assumption that 2025 will be 25% growth as well. 20% does not seem like a sort of dramatic change in outlook. It just seems like natural sort of scale effects within the business to me. This is Kazakhstan. Of course, going forward in the medium term, there can be contributions to income from other parts of the world.

Very helpful, thank you.

Thank you. We now have Reggie Smith with JPMorgan. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Good morning. Congrats on the quarter. Most of my questions have been asked, but I did have a follow up. You mentioned, it sounds like that your impact or influence over Kapsi will primarily come through board meetings. My question is has the new reconstituted board met yet and how frequently do they meet?

You want to take that, Mikheil.

Hi, Reggie. Good to hear from you. It's - yes, I mean, it's proper board dynamics really for a company which is listed on Nasdaq. So, we have a very good strong board with the three independent directors. And yes, it's all - it's actually have been - yes, they've been working in the corners with all the governance requirements which are applicable for a Nasdaq listed company in the States. So we have not - we haven't had the - yet the formal board meeting.

Yes. Okay. So I think the requirement or the standard is just like one meeting per quarter. But some companies will meet more frequently. I guess my question is, is the plan to meet more frequently or just the standard is kind of the standard?

Well, I think the board needs - board will do whatever they consider appropriate for any point. So there is no - I think, we shouldn't be putting any limitations whether it's quarterly or it's monthly. I think the meetings will take place either like in Kaspi, meetings take place when important decisions needs to be made and the board needs to review. So different committees that have to do their job. So I think it's - yes, it just needs to be guided by the requirements of the company and the governance policies, which the companies have and the governance policies are actually quite good detailed and substantial and in a sense similar between Kaspi and Hepsiburada.

Got it. And just to make sure that I understand this correctly, your influence, you being Kaspi's influence on operations strategy or whatever as it relates to Hepsi, will happen through board meetings as opposed to somebody just calling up and saying, hey, we want you to do this or look at this or something to that degree. Am I interpreting that correctly?

I'll just try to understand where to go with this question.

No. Is it - no, because - so I guess, typically when I think of an acquisition and this is different because you guys acquired the entire company, companies can come in and really have a super hands on approach to like changes and I guess I'm trying to understand the distinction here and making sure that like I fully appreciate that it's not going to be super hands on, but it's not a passive investment either, so just trying to understand like where it falls in that continuum? You follow me?

Yes, of course. I mean, I think in general it's where - in general we're just excited to - we're excited to launch the services in Turkey with our experience and our execution skills. So - and we are shareholders in the company and we invested into the company or bought the company because we believe that e-Commerce has high potential. So wherever we can add the value and pull this - we're not private equity fund and we're not asset management company. We are actually a strategic investor, right?

Yes, that makes sense.

So, we'll do things which are - yes, which are applicable for a strategic investor of the company. We're not going to be, of course, working on the board level…

Right. Okay. No, that makes sense. I appreciate it. Thank you. Congrats on the quarter. Look forward to watching this evolve.

Sure.

Thank you. We have Can Demir with Wood & Company on the line.

Hi, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my question. So, the first question is BNPL for merchants, is that a marketplace product or is that a fintech product? So I just wanted to clarify that. And secondly on the government's comments that merchants should advertise both cash and BNPL finance price for their products. I was wondering what your take on that is and how do you think that would affect your m-Commerce business or is that more and more a noise that we should maybe overlook? And thirdly on Ukraine, we know that you have a payments company there. Would you focus on going back there if there's a peace deal? That's the third question. Thank you very much.

Sure. I'll take all three questions or David, you want to do it?

Oh, you be good if you do and maybe broaden out anything else on the regulatory side that needs that you think is relevant to raise.

Yes. Okay. In terms of the Ukraine and other - around the region, I would say let's just hope that there will be a peace and then I think we will revisit our strategies. I can all - but at the same time I can almost imagine you guys asking us when you will go to Ukraine and then - when we will go to Ukraine, you will ask us why did we go to Ukraine, so –

Fair enough.

And then you will ask us, what's your five-year detailed plan strategy and things like that. So anyway, just joking. But I think it - let's just keep in mind, I think they just hope the piece will be there, mutually beneficial for everyone and we will explore opportunities down the line. In terms of the Buy-Inventory-Now-Pay-Later, it's both fintech and the payments product. So it's actually works on the both, right. Because we're processing the payment and we're also taking the credit risk for 30 days which is very low risk. So it basically works on the both platforms. It works on the credit risk side, of course, is a credit, it's a fintech side. On the payment side, it's still processing the payments because it's built on the - it's built also on top of the B2B payments. But this is just another innovation on the top of B2B. When we launched the B2B payments, I did tell you guys several years ago this is - we want to get the scale, we want it run - we want transactions running and once distributors and convenience stores have transactions between them, at some point we will start innovating on top of those transactions like we did in every other verticals and that's what's happening now. So it's another B2B product which we've launched. And again the credit risk side is on the fintech and credit risk and the interest rate. I mean, fintech and then the payment processing side is on the payment side. So that's on the - that's on Buy-Inventory-Now-Pay-Later product. In terms of the - in terms of regulation, well, I mean, in general, I would say there was general discussion. There's really nothing sort of - I don't know, nothing really specific to report. So, I mean, in general, there is a discussion also about the VAT tax sort of and this discussion is going with a wide audience and the businesses and the retailers. So there is - yes, there is discussion ongoing on the VAT, for example. There is a discussion going on, on the payment network as well, the national payment network. So, we are involved in all those discussions. I don't know anything else, David, I'm missing.

No, there's nothing material to report. As you've followed us for several years, can there's always different aspects of regulation being discussed, different stakeholders contribute, different opinions with one stakeholder. But I think what you've seen over the last five years, there's never really been a regulatory decision that sort of had a dramatic impact on the business model or investment case. And we've generally been well positioned as the regulatory landscape has changed and there will be changes in the future and we'll look to make sure we're well positioned for those changes, but there's nothing imminent that we need to flag to you or to other investors.

Okay, super. Thank you both. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. I would now like to hand it back to David for some final comments.

Yes, thanks, Brieka. So we've gone on for over an hour and a half. I'm conscious there are some questions remaining in the queue, but we do need to wrap things up to move to another meeting. So thank you for your time today. Happy to follow up offline. If we didn't get to you, apologies and happy to follow offline if we didn't get to your question today. Happy to continue discussion with everyone over the next couple of weeks. So thanks a lot for your time. Thanks for the questions, guys, and I'll speak to you all quite soon. Thanks, bye.

Thank you. Thank you for good questions. Bye.

Thank you all for joining today's call with Kaspi. You may now disconnect from the webinar and please enjoy the rest of your day. And thank you all again for attending.