Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Kaspi.kz 4Q FY'23 Financial Results Conference Call. Thank you for standing by. My name is Daisy and I'll be your operator today. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the call over to your host, David Ferguson from Kaspi to begin. So David, please go ahead.

Hey, hi, everybody. Thank you, Daisy. So, welcome to our Full Year 2023 Results Call. As usual, the full team are on the call. We've got Mikheil Lomtadze, Tengiz Mosidze and Yuri Didenko. I'm David Ferguson from Kaspi. We'll do the usual format. Mikheil will run you through the strategic update. I'll take some of the financial slides and then we'll open the call up to Q&A and the whole team is available for your questions. So on that note, I'll pass the call over to Mikheil. Mikheil, over to you.

Hello, everyone. So it's our first call since we listed on Nasdaq, so it's exciting to report our 2023 and 4Q numbers and some of the strategic updates from me and some of the priorities which we're working on. So we can go through the presentation. I mean, first of all, our main goal really to list on the Nasdaq was also to achieve the high liquidity. So, as you can see from this slide, average daily volumes are 12 times of London Stock Exchange. So, we believe that's great for the company and its shareholders. And as we made an announcement also that we'll be approaching to delist from London Stock Exchange to consolidate liquidity. Our mission, to remind everyone, I think that's really important for us, our entire team is to develop the products which are highly relevant, they are world-class mobile services, high quality, but also innovate in order to improve people's lives. And we innovate through two sides of our sort of target customer. That would be -- on the one hand, would be the merchant, and on the other hand would be a consumer. And the merchant is the Kaspi Pay mobile app and the consumer is Kaspi.kz. And both mobile apps are the super apps, what we call them. And our definition of the super app is all these different services which are in a single mobile application. And those services are highly diverse and integrated around the regular needs of the consumers and the merchants. So, if we go to look into some of the services that we have in our apps, I'm not going to go through them, but I think, as you might appreciate, very few. So companies have had such a range of the services for both consumers and the…

Great. Thank you, Mikheil. So moving on to the financial performance of the business, starting with the payments platform. So firstly, volume. Payments platform fundamentally is the driver of engagement and competitive advantage in the business. What you see here is 12.9 million consumers, up 14% year-on-year, 581,000 merchants. But as Mikheil talked about, the focus has not been growth in users, it's been growth using that large and engaged user base to drive transaction activity. And here you see very, very solid volume trends, up 30% in the fourth quarter, up 38% for the year. Going forward, with reference to the cohort analysis you saw earlier, this growth just remains a function of us adding more opportunities for consumers and merchants to transact more payment functionality. Moving on to monetization, TPV is the measure of monetization. You should keep in mind that inflation did moderate materially over the course of the year, and as a take rate business, both payments and the marketplace are impacted by that. But irrespective, all key payment products continue to report very, very strong monetization trends, so, that's Kaspi Pay, merchant and consumer transactions, B2B payments and bill payments. And this is despite the fact that they are our most penetrated products. The other takeaway from this slide is that whilst take rate was stable over the course of the year, it did move up in the fourth quarter to 1.3% from 1.2%. That is a result of higher margin bill payments and that will remain a theme in 2024. In terms of mix, what you see here is that B2B payments is now 4% of TPV. It was 3% this time last year, so that is our fastest-growing payment product, but still early days. This year, the focus is still on driving transaction…

[Operator Instructions] Our first question today is from Gabor Kemeny from Autonomous. Gabor, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi. Thanks for this detailed presentation. My first question is on e-commerce and specifically on the merchant base. Now you show that e-commerce merchants are 11% of your total merchant base now, and I think you flag the opportunity to onboard more of your merchants to e-commerce. So, can you talk a bit about this opportunity, what initiatives you have in place, and what do you see as the potential size of your e-commerce merchant base? My other question was also on e-commerce and e-commerce take rate, you flagged that you are in the early stages of monetizing the value-added services. I wondered what your latest thoughts were on the pace of monetizing these value-added services. And my final question is on the payment take rate. I understand you expect stable take rate this year, but select the take rate addition from the higher take rate from the higher margin Bill Payments merchants. What is the take rate in that segment? And if you can help us understand, what do you expect to offset this whereby you assume stable payment take rate for the full year? Thank you.

All right, Gabor. So, thank you very much for your questions. I'll take your question on payments guidance and then hand over to Mikheil for your questions on e-commerce merchants and value-added services. So we're not going to disclose product by product line in payments. What I would just say you've got different dynamics there so on the sort of downside, you have Kaspi Pay. So actually, it's well known in the public domain, that's at 95 bps, so below the average take rate. And then you also have other products, some above, some below. It's certainly true that Bill Payments has seen some take rate increasing as the mix changes there, particularly driven by digital payment services. But overall, I think still to think about broadly stable take rate is a pretty clear message and it wouldn't make a big deal in either direction.

Yes, you want to pick me -- you want me to take the question about e-commerce and merchants, right?

Yes, please.

So in terms of the merchant base, even though it's a nice number really to look at, I think, in general, our strategy is just to make sure that the consumers can find the right assortment they're looking for. So the demand for our marketplace is extremely high from the merchants, just because if you imagine 14 million monthly users, those are the commercially minded buyers with the payments and the funding functionality. So, on our side, really, the merchant number is just, I would say, probably is just the resulting number. So what we are focused on is just to make sure that we are enabling the merchants to buy the items they are looking for. So that's basically about the merchants. It's just a natural migration of the merchants to e-commerce just because we just give them a lot of high-quality sales uplift. But again, we're focused on making sure that the existing merchants can sell, making sure that the consumers can buy the items that they want to buy. In terms of the take rate, our strategy has been quite consistent. We want to make sure that if you are a merchant and you are spending money with us, we actually deliver value. So, if you are advertising, for example, then we deliver the value that your sale is going up. But at the same time, we have to make sure that we are providing a high-quality experience for both consumers and the remaining merchants. We don't want to be in the environment, like many other leading marketplaces, where you cannot sell if you don't advertise. So, that's not our strategy. Therefore, I wouldn't expect that the take rate will be growing at astronomical rates. It will be still a very reasonable growth within the revenue guidance we've provided. But again, that is just another stream of revenue. The one thing which I would like to mention is we entered grocery just basically briefly, right? So our team is doing a great job on scaling that at a very efficient profitable way with the happy consumers and we have pretty much become one of the leading grocers now in Almaty, which is the largest city in the country. And as we've become the largest grocer now, we have quite a lot of fast-moving consumer goods companies coming to us and asking us to develop the products, advertising products for them. So that would be another revenue stream which does come from the merchants themselves, but actually comes from some of the brands and the companies that manufacture the items which we sell. And that's a great place to be in. For any company, if your user base coming to you and asking you to develop the products for them, I think this is probably the best position that any business can be. You just listen to your merchants and your consumers and make sure you provide the high-quality products.

Very interesting. Thank you.

Thank you. Our next question today is from James Friedman from SIG. James, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi. Thank you for taking my question. So, I wanted to ask a much more high-level question, and it kind of combines Slide 8 and then Slide 11. And thank you for this incremental disclosure on Slide 11. But in Slide 8, I was just wondering if you could help orient us as to this continued sharp increase in engagement, 71 versus 60 in terms of the monthly activities, up 13% -- up 17%, excuse me. Yeah. So what services or products in particular resonated in 2023 to drive that kind of increase? And then I guess Slide 11, this would be a longer view. But if you were to look at the year five cohort, which is up 12 times since 2018, how have you seen the profile of that engagement evolve? I mean, clearly the number is powerful. I'm just curious as to what type of product or services over that duration has really expanded the engagement to that magnitude? Thank you.

Okay, thanks. James, Mikheil, over to you.

Yeah, sure. Well, in terms of the number of transactions per consumer, I mean, if you think what we have been creating, it's something really unique, but there is a simple view that we are expanding around the regular needs of the consumers, right. I mean, initially we started with the payments and sort of just moving money between your accounts and friends or family, and then we moved towards merchants and as we continue growing the merchant base, we just give you, as a consumer, more reasons to spend. So all the money which comes in is basically digital money, right? It's all cashless transactions and they start from us, the spending around their household budget. So that's what is really driving the transactions. It's almost like a replication of how many times you open up your wallet during the day in order to pay for something. In Kazakhstan, you don't need a wallet anymore, because it's a Kaspi.kz App in your pocket. So, that basically is a proxy for our intensity. So, we're just going through -- we are going around everything that you are, as a consumer, you are spending money for and we just made the whole spending exercise digital and we replaced your wallet with the cash with our mobile app with the digital money on it. So, that's basically what drives the transactions. Going forward, there will be another uplift just because we're digitalizing grocery and grocery is a high-frequency transaction and we are going after weekly purchases at the moment, but that's not going to be our finish line. So, that's something also basically just gives you another sort of uplift in terms of the frequency and the transactions around the consumer. So, that's about the transactions per consumer, James, and engagements and then around slide number 11, David, I think was a question.

Okay, great. So here, what you see, it's almost like this question is around the same question, right? So it's like why the transactions per consumer is growing. So again, we started in 2018, we just had much fewer reasons for consumers to pay through us. We're just only in the beginning of building the payment network. We were just entering the e-commerce space with, I don't remember how many SKUs we had, but we had maybe a couple of hundred thousand, something like that, if not less. And now we have close to 5 million SKUs on our e-commerce platform. So again, as we continue in the merchant base, almost 600,000 merchants you can spend money with. So as we continue -- as we build the merchant base, we build the consumer base and we connected them to each other to the payment network and we gave more reasons for a consumer to use digital money rather than cash. All of that basically has been the growth driver. And going forward, again we will be -- from the services that we have today, the services like grocery, for example, will be the ones contributing to the transactions as well as the services industry, which is an interesting target for us as well. Services, I mean, anything that cannot be delivered, right, so it can be restaurants or barber shops and things like that. I'm just making a general statement about the service industry. I don't want to speak about the exact innovation plans that we have on this call. I would rather have you to see our results rather than talk about them.

Perfect. Thank you both.

Thank you, James.

Thank you. Our next question is from Will Vu from Wolfe Research. Will, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hey guys, this is Will on for Darrin Peller here at Wolfe. Just two questions from me. The first one just on the fintech yield expectation in fiscal year '24. I mean, just looking at your guidance, it calls for stable fintech yield year-over-year, despite kind of seeing a higher mix towards BNPL and looking broadly with interest rates coming down, maybe just kind of walk us through some of the puts and takes on this dynamic here. And then the second question that I had was just around the car marketplaces opportunity. You guys talked about car marketplaces being more of a strategic priority for Kaspi in 2024. Maybe just expand upon that a little bit. How should we think about the TAM and ultimately why now?

Okay, Will. So, thanks a lot for your questions. I'll take the first one on the yield guidance. So, stable doesn't mean identical, it means broadly similar. I think if you look at the trend over the last couple of years, and you look at the trend last year, last year the yield moved 26% from 27%. And that sort of delta is not inconsistent with previous years. So, the puts and the pulls are on what's bringing the yield down. It's buy now pay later. But that could be structured in different ways. But one way is 0% for three months, and that's not the only way. But that's a component of it. And merchant financing, which is a lower-yielding product. So that's on the one side. On the other side, the higher yielding products are primarily the general purpose loan, which has declined in the mix and will continue to decline in the mix. So, they are the sort of two sides of the equation. But I wouldn't expect, again, it's like Gabor's question on payment take rate. The point about stable is to indicate not sort of some dramatic change in trend year-on-year, around the same plus or minus something consistent with what you've seen previously. And then I'll hand over to Mikheil on the car marketplace opportunity.

I mean I would prefer to describe later in the year in a bit more detail. So, I will just take a step back and maybe I'll just explain the strategic view of certain things, how we actually operate. That is just a decision a consumer is taking to buy a car and when you think about buying a car, there are so many services related to that decision, right? You need the tires. Well, you need to register the car first of all, or you need to get the financing to buy a car, then you need to register a car, then you need to buy the tires, then you need to fill up the car with the gas, then you need to buy some of the spare parts during the year. And if something major breaks, then you actually go to the service station and you do that. And if you think about some of the services which can be built around this decision of a consumer are quite exciting, right? I mean -- so from that perspective, what we are really excited about is once we now have the decision point for a consumer, that consumer can buy a car because we have the largest classified on the car side, now we just would like to build an organized consumer experience around that decision point. So, that's basically why we are excited about it. It just happens that we are already the number one tire-selling marketplace in the country already and we are the largest car registration platform when people change their ownership, and we are also probably now number one in car lending online car loan business as well. So, all that is really just excites us that we can organize the consumer experience and just make it more seamless and therefore deliver more value for a consumer and then deliver more value for the merchants that participate in all these car-related activities. So your question was why now? And it's just because now we have this decision point about the car because we acquired the leading car marketplace last year. At time of acquisition, I mentioned that the decision of buying the car is the most important. The reason why the car classified is a great addition is not because it's number one car classified, but it's because now we have a consumer making the decision about the car in our user story and we can build from there. So really excited and later in the year, we will be giving you a bit of more details and the specific use cases as we've done before, travel, e-grocery, B2B payments, all of those, advertising, all of those businesses we've started from use cases and now they're growing very rapidly.

Great. Thanks.

Thank you. Our next question today will be from Joshua Samuel from Mawer Investment Management. Joshua, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hey, thanks. So just one question on the e-commerce marketplace. I've been reading that you've got competitors like I think Wildberries, Ozon are investing quite heavily in Kazakhstan. Could you just walk me through, Mikheil, how are you positioning the company to defend your position in the -- we have a very strong position in the e-commerce marketplace and I guess you want to avoid that outcome like Alibaba, right. So as a market leader, how do you prevent such outcomes in the future?

Sure. Well, I mean if you look at our business, the most important competitive advantage we have is the consumer is transacting with us two times a day, more than two times a day. And that's a single mobile application. So, the consumer is not just coming to buy something from the marketplace, they're actually coming for a daily usage around their entire daily activity. So, that is the most important competitive advantage in our case and compared to Ozon or Wildberries, it's just the business model that we have has such strong network effects that for these guys they can invest and provide the discounts and run the crazy promotional campaigns and might have uplift on a temporary basis, but then the consumer will buy from you at a very heavy discount and then they come back to our platform because they open our app multiple times during the day. So, our consumers are actually very much involved in our business. So you cannot take just e-commerce or marketplace as a standalone basis, right. That's a very important difference from others. The second I would say that we are a marketplace which means we are not apart from the grocery part of our business, we're not trading the items. So, we actually help the merchants to grow and we give them tools to grow. And from that point of view any entrant that is coming on the market they are not competing just against us. They're really competing against all this universe of the merchants which are providing the, which are selling items through us and we just give them technology, right? So, from that perspective, I think it's also a very powerful part of our business. And then the third piece is that we are constantly building the networks, right? So, we have the largest last-mile delivery network for example in the country with almost 6,000 automated parcel machines. And delivery is also a source of very important competitive advantage. So, yeah, we put our heads down and we're just making sure that we deliver the outstanding quality of the products for the consumers and innovation for the merchants, so they grow the sales and reinforced by the payment network, reinforced by the delivery network, reinforced by the super app network function that provides a very important source of competitive advantage. So, that's basically our view and we constantly expand the new categories, right, so that's an important part of our business as well.

Thank you. Do you -- but just a follow-up, do you feel the need to, I guess, price defensively in any of your categories? I think I've heard Wildberries is -- I think they're potentially like lowest price at the moment for some products.

Well, they can be lower priced on some products if they want to. In our case we are working around the consumer and merchant needs sort of overall. So we don't really feel anything -- and any pressure for us to provide any kind of price discounts. Again, these guys are just bleeding the money, right? They run promotional campaigns, consumers would buy something at heavy discount but then they come back to us for actual real purchases and we just need to make sure that we have the items which they want to buy and they're looking for. And if you look at our growth rates and the development that we have, yeah, we don't feel like we need to compete on the price, but our merchants you should understand, right? So when one item has 50 offers, 60 offers from the merchants, actually merchants themselves are providing very competitive prices, right. So, that's very important to keep in mind. It's not Kaspi competing against Ozon as a merchant, right, or their merchant. It's our merchants, actually, and because we have such a high number of merchants and the price liquidity and prices of the items that we have are actually quite -- very competitive compared to the prices which other players are offering. And then the speed of delivery, it's making a very important -- delivering very important value to the consumer.

Got it. Thanks.

Thank you.

Thank you. Our next question is from Sam Griffiths from Vergent Asset Management. Sam, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi, guys. Thanks for the call and congratulations on the successful listing and a great set of numbers. I have three questions, please. The first is how you think about the TAM for the number of consumers that you could finance. When you look at your active consumer base, you've got a lot of data on these people. How are you thinking about the penetration there? Where can that get it to? That's the first one. The second question is on the merchant services, as you grow that business, whether it be in B2B payments or merchant financing, is there any appetite to grow kind of any products on the funding side, maybe going aggressively after merchant deposits or whatever? Any comments there would be great. And then finally on the logistics platform, I just wanted to check, is this just for e-commerce, or is there also an opportunity to plug into more general supply chains within the country? Thank you.

Thanks, Sam. Do you want to take those, Mikheil?

Yeah, sure. So in terms of the target market, I would say that the way to think about our business model is that the businesses which are front-end of the merchant and the consumer relationship, those are the ones which are driving the financing or the fintech side of things, right. So, you basically don't need money as a consumer. You want to buy something with it. You want to buy a car, you want to buy an iPhone, you want to buy a TV, and you want to buy tires and so on and so forth. So actually, the driver of the fintech side is the shopping and the payment activity of our consumers. So, that's a very important point about the growth. Therefore, the marketplace, and the payments and marketplace specifically will be growing faster because they are front-end and the fintech is actually back-end. Merchants, they don't need just money. They need money to buy the same sort of inventory which they sell in our marketplace. So, that's basically on the financing side of things, the sort of -- in terms of the target market, you can just think whatever consumers are buying and the merchants are buying to sell, and consumers are buying from those merchants. And again, the consumer finance is extremely underpenetrated, and merchant finance, we believe, even more underpenetrated because there are very few products on the market which would be seamless and fully online. And the car finance, we're just scaling as we speak. In terms of the merchant services, I mean, I would say that we are innovating around the needs of our consumers and the use cases which we see from the consumer or the merchant behavior and the data. So, from that perspective, we are excited about building the…

That's super helpful. Just one follow-up, please. Mikheil, when you think about the overall funding profile of the lending business, do you expect that to stick mainly on the consumer side going forward as the business evolves? Or is there more room for maybe funding for merchants to play a part as well?

Yeah, sorry, I missed that piece of your merchant services question. We are basically driven by the merchants. So -- and again, this is the great place to be. That's the advantage of our business model. So now, for example, we started with the payments, there is an actual business account of the merchant in our super app, which is fully validated and KYC'd. And now where we actually are is that the merchants have some -- they increase their sales, especially after our promotional events, they have some cash on their accounts. So if you would be a merchant, you would be asking us to develop the deposit product, because there is cash sitting on your accounts. So, that would be a response to your question. The merchants are asking us to do that product, and we feel there is a use case for it and there is a scale, and we can deliver the value by building the best merchant deposit product on the market.

That's very clear. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Our next question is from David Shapiro from Vanshap Capital. David, please go ahead. David has removed his question, so I'm going to move on to our next question. Our next question is -- David has registered a question again. So I'm going to open David's line now.

Hi, David. Go ahead. If you're still there.

I'm still here. Sorry about that. Congratulations on the listing, and thanks to management and all the employees for working hard on behalf of the shareholders. Just three quick questions. First question regarding the capital return and how you guys are thinking about it. Obviously, you listed the float is still rather limited. So, how do you balance the ongoing share buyback program, which is obviously, at the current price, extremely attractive and well thought out, versus wanting to encourage more liquidity on the exchange itself? So that's one question. Second question. Around foreign expansion. As you look to maybe neighboring countries, right now, what do you see as the biggest hurdles, besides obviously the big plate of items that you have domestically? Is there anything that's challenging getting into foreign markets, such as regulatorily speaking or lack of adequate targets or prominent targets, that would be good for Kaspi to enter to. So I just wanted to see what the major hurdles were at this point. And lastly, when you look at your guidance for 2024, just broadly speaking, are there any sort of big regulatory challenges that you can see locally, either on tax rate or perhaps interest rate caps, especially with the new administration -- I'm sorry, the new cabinet that is coming in for the current government. So, anything that you want to flag potentially that's incorporated in your guidance or that could potentially change some of those thought processes around underlying profitability?

All right, David, thanks for those questions. I'll take the capital allocation, then pass over to Mikheil for the remaining questions. So, the simple answer is that the US listing doesn't change anything over the medium term in terms of our approach to returning capital -- in terms of our approach to capital allocation. So, number one, first call on cash is always investing in the business, unchanged. Number two, if we have excess cash, we return it to shareholders, unchanged. The track record of returning cash via both dividends and buybacks speaks for itself. And specifically with regard to buybacks, I think since we started the program, we bought back $277 million in roughly over 18 months. Like yourself, we feel that the stock's valuation does not adequately reflect the growth outlook. It's true that there's no new buyback program today, but we reserve the right to step in at any point in the future. We talked about an opportunistic approach in the press release, but I think you're right at this stage, so soon after the US listing, it would be nice to see what the real level of liquidity is in the market, and that might take a little bit longer for us to find. So just let's see how things evolve. On the rest of it, I'll pass over to Mikheil.

Sure. Thank you. David, thank you for those questions. I would make another -- just comment in terms of our liquidity and capital allocation. We are focused really on the company and its growth, and we are making decisions what is in the best of interest of the company, because that's something which we don't control the stock price, but we actually are responsible for execution. So, things that we are focused on really is the company itself, because we have a very much long-term focus on our business. In terms of the two other questions, expansion. It's just a really good place to be for us. We have companies across many markets just approaching us on different levels with different ideas for us, and how we can get involved. So it's really very preliminary at this stage. Nothing specific for me to report, but it's not a question if, it's actually question when, and which target and which market. So, that's as specific as I can be. And I've mentioned several times that's the number one priority on our management list of things to be done. And if Kaspi's management gets something into their priority list, it gets done, as simple as is. In terms of the guidance, I would say in general, there is nothing really for us to report. The country's leadership and President Tokayev, he has mentioned about executing the reforms and wants those reforms to be done on the basis of the economy growing and the investment climate also growing and becoming even more attractive for investments. So, I think that's basically the foundation and extremely important for everything else is really important details, obviously, but most important is that the country, and the President they have, the view of that needs to be a good place for investors to invest. And I think that's an important foundation for everything else. So, our guidance basically is nothing really specific for us to report. And as you guys know, we never speculate about things.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Thanks, David.

Thank you. We have time for one more question today. If you can kindly just limit yourself to one question. And we will be taking it from Can Demir from Wood & Co. Can please go ahead? Your line is open.

Yes. Hi, thank you for taking my question. I actually want to ask a more broad question as I'm following the per active customer TPV on the payment side of things, that number has reached $430 per month, give or take. And the average wage in Kazakhstan is around, I think $700 or $800, of course, for working people. So, Mikheil, how should we think about this? Because people seem to be spending a lot relative to what they earn. So, I just wondered what you would make out of the numbers that I mentioned. Thank you.

You want to take that, Mikheil?

Yeah, sure. I mean, in general, I would say that these payments, the movements around the consumer's money is also all about the savings that they have with us when they -- we are the largest savings institution in local currency at the moment and ticket size is about $3,000 for consumers. So, the consumers are not just spending with us, but the top of our funnel is the consumers are actually saving with us as well. So that would be just the one sort of simple example. I think we do have a number of savings consumers here, right, David, I think just as an example, no, yeah.

4.8 million.

So, let's say, 4.8 million consumers saving with us. So that's just really one use case, right? Another thing about the payments per consumer is also the consumers are moving money between themselves. And you saw that the P2P, which is monetized, the penetration rate of this is what is about, I don't remember specifically, it's about 13 -- yeah 34%. So, the TPV which consumers have with us is also about consumers actually moving money between themselves, friends, and family. So, it's just much more than the average salary that the person is getting.

Okay, so P2P is now chargeable because I remember in the past it wasn't really chargeable.

The vast majority of the P2P transactions is free of charge, but P2P transactions which at the moment are monetized, those are the transactions when you are moving the money, for example, from our wallet to the other card, or you're spending money abroad or moving the money abroad. So, those are the kind of monetized -- vast majority of the transactions which are between accounts and between the consumers, they are free of charge. Nothing changed in our pricing policy. It remains exactly the same.

Okay, maybe just one clarification, sorry for that one, but so you're saying 34% of the current chargeable volume is related to those chargeable P2P transactions.

Correct? Yeah. If you take, this is the share. David, can you pull up the slide, please, on the penetration of consumer products? The next one? Yeah. Great. So 34%, actually, if you look at the P2P penetration as a P2P service itself, it would be close to the 90%, basically. So that's the penetration of 34% is only the P2P transactions which are not monetized. Sorry -- which are monetized.

Which are monetized, okay.

Much more, it's almost 90% would be the penetration of P2P which is not monetized. We're just showing here for the purposes of revenue. And that's why -- and TPV, that's why you have here only monetized transactions, but unmonetized is almost 90% penetration.

Okay, that's super helpful. Thank you.

Thank you, Cam.

Okay. So I think, Daisy, that wraps things off. So thank you, everyone, for participating in the call. Thank you for your questions. I know there are some written questions we haven't been able to answer, so apologies, but happy to follow up directly. Thank you very much, everyone. And we'll speak to you at our Q1 results in April. Thank you. Bye-bye.

Thank you. Bye-bye.

Thank you, everyone, for joining today's call. You may now disconnect and have a lovely day.