Okay. So utility products and services -- so I would say certainly we view the macro environment for pole replacement as a positive, and without anything else that would be something nice to talk about, our biggest opportunities in that business are clearly 2 things, and it's not the organic growth rate of pole replacement, it's -- for us, it is further integration and capitalization of our operating network with our tie- and pole-treating plants, and it's market share penetration, further market share penetration. So those are the 2 areas we're focused on. If we're successful in those 2 areas, it would far dwarf any positive tailwinds that might be out there as it relates to year-over-year growth rates in pole replacement, so that's where we're focused, and that's what you'll hear us talk about and focus on in upcoming calls. Moving on to the question of the debt and sort of how we balance opportunities that come forward versus debt reduction, we've -- so the unfortunate part of the large acquisitions we've made over the past couple of years is obviously the leverage that we've taken on and the perceived risk that comes along with that, which I think has been reflected in our stock price in both cases. When we bought Performance Chemical was back in 2014, and then the utility industrial products and recovery resources businesses last year. So we showed back in 2014 that we were pretty adept at buckling down and moving leverage back down. Was the timing of the UIP and KRR purchases perfect for us? No, probably would have liked that if it could have happened a year down the road. I think we would have been in a better position to absorb it. But you can't time those things, and so they were there, we opportunistically went after them, and then consciously raised our leverage back up to levels that we don't like to operate at, but with the right opportunity, we will. And now we're focused on trying to move the numbers back down. There's a number of opportunities out there that we're looking at, and look, every -- nothing comes for free, so there's a price tag to everything. We certainly, I'd say, are more weighted towards getting our debt to continue to move down. And so I'd say, overall, for us, we have to see continued debt reduction. I'm okay spending some money on some opportunities that make sense for us, but it can't be at the -- at this stage, it cannot be at the price of moving our debt levels up. So if we can do those things in concert, reduce leverage -- reduce leverage, not necessarily debt but reduce leverage, while we also take advantage of opportunities, I'm all for that. But if it's taking advantage of opportunities while also increasing leverage from where we're at today, that's just -- that's not in the cards for us.