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Kforce Inc. (KFRC)

Q2 2013 Earnings Call· Tue, Jul 30, 2013

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Kforce's Second Quarter 2013 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Michael Blackman, Chief Corporate Development Officer. Sir, you may begin.

Michael R. Blackman

Analyst

Good. Thank you. Good afternoon and welcome to the Kforce Second Quarter Earnings Call. Before we get started, I would like to remind you that this call may contain certain statements that are forward-looking. These statements are based upon current assumptions and expectations and are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially from the factors listed in Kforce's public filings and other reports and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. We cannot undertake any duty to update any forward-looking statements. I would now like to turn this call over to David Dunkel, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. Dave?

David L. Dunkel

Analyst

Thank you, Michael. You can find additional information about Kforce in our 10-Q, 10-K and 8-K filings with the SEC. We also provide substantial disclosure in our release to assist in better understanding our performance and to improve the quality of this call. We are pleased with our revenue and earnings performance in the second quarter and in particular, our ability to deliver sequential revenue growth in all of our businesses. Total revenues of $283.7 million exceeded our expectations and earnings per share of $0.21 was at the top of our guidance. The human capital investments we made at the end of 2012 and early 2013 have begun to take hold, as is evidenced by the accelerated year-over-year growth from the first quarter. As these newer associates become more tenured, we expect revenue to continue ramping accordingly. Joe will provide additional perspective on this later in the call. Throughout the quarter, our many client meetings continue to affirm our belief about the secular shifts taking place in the employment marketplace. We are benefiting from our clients' increasing desire for a higher degree of variability in the composition of their workforce as they look to mitigate economic uncertainty and the increasing complexity and cost of employment. In addition to secular shifts, we are also finding that our Technology clients are showing an increased desire for flexible staffing to support their project efforts, as opposed to other alternatives that do not allow them to control cost, manage results or mitigate the uncertainties around immigration reform. We remain optimistic about our prospects and are committed to our belief that temporary staffing penetration, which has increased to a cyclical high of 1.97% in June of 2013 will continue to grow as companies redefine how they acquire and deploy human capital and will likely surpass…

Joseph J. Liberatore

Analyst

Thank you, Dave, and thanks to all of you for your interest in Kforce. During the second quarter of this new era for Kforce, we remain externally focused on better meeting the needs of our customers. I personally had the opportunity to meet with Kforce clients and consultants with my team and have visited 24 markets since Q4. Collectively, these markets contribute over 2/3 of our revenue. These interactions have reinforced our belief in the opportunity to significantly grow revenue within our existing clients, as well as selectively add new clients. We remain focused on streamlining and leveraging our processes and tools to simplify how we do business with our clients and consultants. And we are leveraging real-time data to hold our associates accountable to higher levels of performance and superior customer service. These were significant drivers to our success in Q2. Tech Flex, our largest business unit, represents 62% of total perm revenues. Q2 revenues increased 5.9% sequentially on a billing-day basis and 5.5% year-over-year. Overall, our key performance indicators for Technology remain at high levels for job orders, external submittals and send out, with fill ratios at an all-time high. We continue to improve prioritizing the highest-quality job orders, so we believe additional opportunity remain for improvement. Candidate supply remains tight, particularly for skill sets in high demand such as [indiscernible], Java and .NET. business analyst and manage project managers. Intra-quarter trends for Tech Flex revenues showed moderate increases in both April and May, followed by a large increase in June. Our national footprint and diversified service offerings allow us to service client in industries with the greatest demand for technology professionals. The industries that performed best in Q2 were telecom, computer hardware and retail. We also continue to see growth in Technology services within healthcare and demand…

David M. Kelly

Analyst

Thank you, Joe. Total revenues for the quarter were $283.7 million, which represented an increase of 6.8% sequentially and an increase of 3.5% year-over-year. Quarterly revenues for Flex were $270.4 million, which represented an increase of 6.4% sequentially and a 3.6% year-over-year increase. Search revenues of $13.3 million increased by 15.2% sequentially and 0.8% year-over-year. Early Q3 revenue trends have improved from June levels. For the first 3 weeks of July, Tech Flex is up 9.9% year-over-year, Finance and Accounting Flex is up 2.3% year-over-year and HIM is up 7.3% year-over-year. Search revenues are down 1.9% year-over-year for the first 4 weeks of Q3. It is difficult to assess potential full quarter results with this limited data, though recent activity is promising. Second quarter net income and earnings per share were $6.9 million and $0.21, respectively. Net income and EPS increased from $3.1 million or $0.09 per share in Q1 and declined from $8.9 million and $0.24 per share in Q2 2012 due primarily to investments in revenue responsible headcount. Our overall gross profit percentage of 32.7% increased 130 basis points sequentially and was flat year-over-year. Our Flex gross profit percentage of 29.4% in Q2 increased 110 basis point sequentially and increased 10 basis points year-over-year. The sequential impact of payroll taxes on margins in Q2 was 130 basis points and overall spreads were slightly up. Those gains were partially offset by one-time client-related adjustment negatively impacting Tech Flex margins by 30 basis points. Flex spreads in our Tech -- in F&A businesses have flattened over the past 3 quarters. Tech Flex spreads were flat sequentially and have improved 10 basis points year-over-year. At base spreads, we're down 20 basis points sequentially and are down 10 basis points year-over-year. Our Government spreads improved 300 basis points sequentially and 310 basis…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Mark Marcon from R W. Baird. Mark S. Marcon - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: Really nice to see the progress on the IT Flex side. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about the big jump that you ended up seeing in June and that continued into July. To what extent was that due to what you discussed in terms of the -- some of the bigger clients signing up as opposed to being a little bit more broad-based or are your expectations it'll be more broad based going forward?

Joseph J. Liberatore

Analyst

Yes, Mark, I'd say it was definitely broad-based, especially within Tech. I think from an assay standpoint, we saw some of the pent-up project demand that we we're talking about in our last call, really started to open up on the back end of the quarter, but in general, I say broad-based. Mark S. Marcon - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: Great. And then can you talk a little bit also on the Government side. The gross margins were terrific. It sounds like it was due to a pickup with regards to some of the more valuable services. Can you be a little bit more specific and how sustainable is that?

David M. Kelly

Analyst

Sure, Mark, yes. This is Dave Kelly. Yes, the -- our Government did a nice job in the quarter. One of the things that they've been very successful at is actually, incremental adds on existing projects and specifically speaking, some of the more profitable projects that we've had for quite some time that some of those clients really not necessarily impacted by sequestration, have had significant add-ons. Those margins on those projects have done a good job -- we've done a good job improving margins there and we take the opportunity replenishing resources on those projects. Mark S. Marcon - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: Great. And then can you talk a little bit about the SG&A? It sounds like we might have just a little bit of a modest uptick with regards to SG&A in the third quarter but it sounds like you're starting to really leverage some of those hires that you made. Can you talk a little bit about the progression going forward and how we should think about that and where you are from a capacity perspective?

David L. Dunkel

Analyst

Sure, sure, Mark. This is Dave. Actually, if you think about the third quarter and think about our guidance, one of the things that we're very pleased with is the expectation of improved operating margins, partially as a result of the fact that SG&A levels are expected to go down for a couple of reasons. One, as Joe mentioned, as the revenue responsible folks are beginning to ramp and as we talked about it in the past, as those folks ramp, we get operating margins from them as a result of their compensation and revenues they generate. And then as revenues grow, generally speaking, we talk a lot about our operating platform, we get leverage from that as well. So actually, operating margin improvement is expected in Q3, primarily as a result of that SG&A reduction. Mark S. Marcon - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: Okay. But do you mean that on an absolute basis or on a percentage basis? I'm assuming you mean on a percentage basis.

David L. Dunkel

Analyst

Yes. I mean, I think, again, if you take a look at our guidance, I can tell you that at the mid-point of guidance you're looking at operating margins in the low 5%. So we were at slightly over 4% this quarter...

Joseph J. Liberatore

Analyst

It's percent, Mark.

David L. Dunkel

Analyst

It's percent, Mark. Mark S. Marcon - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: Yes, I just wanted to make sure -- that's exactly what I'm assuming you're saying.

David L. Dunkel

Analyst

[indiscernible] our revenue stream. Mark S. Marcon - Robert W. Baird & Co. Incorporated, Research Division: Got it. We're on the same page.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Kevin McVeigh from Macquarie.

Kevin D. McVeigh - Macquarie Research

Analyst

So if I have my math right, it looks like there's going to be an incremental kind of 30% margin Q2 into Q3. Is that better execution on the fill side as opposed to a C [ph] shift in demand? And it sounds like the demand's been there but even at some of the other verticals obviously, on the IT side, with some of the other verticals, it stepped up a little bit even more. Is that just a function of clarity on taxation or just the folks feeling better about the cycle? Just any commentary on that would be helpful.

Joseph J. Liberatore

Analyst

This is Joe. I would say a lot of it is really we've seen dramatic improvement in our fill rate. So for example, in Tech Flex, we had about a 7% sequential in our fill rate. So it's really a combination of, I would say, better execution from that standpoint. We've been after more refinement in the qualification of jobs that come in for the better part of about 2 years now and that's really starting to take hold and I think we're seeing some of the benefits there. So that's one piece of it and it's also volume standpoint. So for example, when I look at Tech Flex, our Tech Flex population is up 27.3% on a year-over-year basis, so it's really from both of those assets.

Kevin D. McVeigh - Macquarie Research

Analyst

Joe, is that -- as people get more confident, they're more willing to switch assignments proactively as opposed to staying in some for a longer tenure or is that just execution? I mean -- and I'm just trying to get in the mind of some of the associates in terms of more of a willingness to move job to job as the economy firms up.

Joseph J. Liberatore

Analyst

Yes, so you're really talking more on the consultant population. Correct?

Kevin D. McVeigh - Macquarie Research

Analyst

Yes. Yes.

Joseph J. Liberatore

Analyst

The consultants, for the most part, I mean, they complete the assignment. So we haven't seen really any drastic change in assignment length, it stayed pretty constant. I would just say the ability to redeploy those consultants, obviously, has improved as overall supply/demand has taken hold. So you're also seeing less gap in terms of any downtime with those individuals. I mean, many of these consultants, they interview and there's an offer on the table immediately post interview. So we've also seen really a compression of the hiring process finally start to take place with a lot of our clients. We're seeing that both on the Flex side of the business, as well as on the permanent placement side of the business.

Kevin D. McVeigh - Macquarie Research

Analyst

Got it. And then one more and I'll jump off the queue. Hey, Dave, you kind of alluded to immigration. As you think about that impacting the business versus Obamacare, the delay in that, I mean, I'd imagine immigration is probably a lot more impactful. Just any thoughts around that would be helpful.

David L. Dunkel

Analyst

Yes. It's hard to quantify and they can't even agree on what it's going to look and what the law is going to say but what it's done is create an element of uncertainty. So you have several factors really driving that. One is the wage arbitrage has been compressed. So the opportunity to offshore and see significant economic benefits has been reduced. The opportunity to bring people onshore. It reduced -- pay rates has also been reduced. So when you take those 2 things together, I think that those 2 things have created enough uncertainty that clients, especially for projects that are going to take more than 6 months to a year, are probably going to lean more towards onshore resources. So I think that has also benefited us and given us some wind in our sails again, as well.

David M. Kelly

Analyst

And, Kevin, a follow up on your question about Obamacare and I think we talked about this before. So given that we're predominantly Tech Flex, the impact for us of Obamacare, even as it was expected to go in place, was not expected to be significant for us in the near term. So the delay really doesn't impact the expectations of demand for our business as we move forward in the near term. So just to give you a little bit of color on that.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Tobey Sommer from SunTrust.

Tobey Sommer - SunTrust Robinson Humphrey, Inc., Research Division

Analyst

I was wondering if you could give us a little bit of color about the different areas that you got productivity to drive the revenue growth out of new hires? And maybe characterize the split between resources you added to the NRC versus field personnel?

Joseph J. Liberatore

Analyst

Yes, Tobey, this is Joe. So where we are in Q2 is about 73% of the hiring, the ramp-up that we did was within our Tech Flex, about 27% of that was within FA. So this can kind of give you a sense because I had mentioned one number earlier. So we grew our Tech Flex headcount 27.3% year-over-year. The combination NRC and Strategic Accounts, we rooted about 17.7%, so we are adding more into our field operations than we are into the NRC or Strategic Account. Where we're really seeing the productivity gain, and I've mentioned this before, just to kind of break it down real quick, when we look at our 4 year plus population, they're about 50% more productive than our 2- to 4-year population. They're about 100% more productive than our 1- to 2-year population. Where we see our biggest productivity gain is when people move from less than 1 year into that 1- to 2-year population, we see about a 200% improvement. And so when you look at the makeup of our Flex population right now, only about 32.8% of our total Flex population has greater than 2 years of experience. We have 47.3% of our population actually has less than 1 year of experience. So we're very comfortable with where we are from a capacity standpoint.

Tobey Sommer - SunTrust Robinson Humphrey, Inc., Research Division

Analyst

Perfect. And then, Dave, you just discussed offshoring and how kind of doing this work here domestically might make a little bit more sense these days. How do you think staff augmentation in IT staffing, generally, is comparing in kind of competitive versus in actual outsourced consulting relationships, sort of hiring Accenture or IBM to do any project. Any share shift that you see going there?

David L. Dunkel

Analyst

Yes. Actually, we're seeing more managed service opportunities for us. We're actually participating in a lot of them and that's by -- virtually, the relationship and the clients are asking us to do that. Obviously, there's a benefit to them because as you understand and they understand, the premium for an Accenture and some of the larger managed services firms is quite significant overstaffing. So given the fact the resources are often the same resources, clients have figured out that in working with us and creating a hybrid model, we can actually solve some of their problems and -- so that they don't have to incur the full cost of onshoring a lot of these managed services projects.

Tobey Sommer - SunTrust Robinson Humphrey, Inc., Research Division

Analyst

So in a managed services opportunity, are you taking on sort of light deliverables and that kind of thing?

David L. Dunkel

Analyst

Yes. It really depends on the client. It's time and materials for the most part, very, very few fixed-price. Certainly within the commercial space, the Government is different. But it's predominantly working with the client. They may provide senior project management resources, we'll staff an entire project and then we'll have delivery responsibility for that project. And it really comes down to -- it's very client specific and project specific. One thing that is happening for sure is the projects are more clearly defined with clearer expectations of timeframe and outcome, which really lends itself more to staffing as well. The big ERP projects that typically would have been an outsourced or managed services contract, those have been largely done. So these are more defined projects and typically related to things like big data, business intelligence, Java, .NET and applications like that.

Tobey Sommer - SunTrust Robinson Humphrey, Inc., Research Division

Analyst

Then just a question, a couple of numbers questions. What should be good expectation for tax rate for the balance of the year? And did you -- have you repurchased any shares quarter-to-date here in 3Q?

David M. Kelly

Analyst

So the effective tax rate that we're expecting for the year is a 40.6%. This is what we were expecting in Q3, Tobey. And then as it relates to your next question, your last question, I'm sorry, was?

David L. Dunkel

Analyst

Shares in the third quarter, no we have not.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Paul Ginocchio from Deutsche Bank.

Ato Garrett - Deutsche Bank AG, Research Division

Analyst

Actually, this is Ato Garrett on for Paul Ginocchio. I had a couple of quick questions regarding the SG&A, about looking at 2Q you and your expectations for 3Q. Looking at 2Q's SG&A expense, it looks it came a little bit higher than we forecasted. So I was wondering if you guys post forward any expenses there or if the human capital investments you made were done at the pace you anticipated? And also, looking at your hiring plans for 3Q, is that going to represent a similar pace of hiring or is that going to be an acceleration or deceleration?

Joseph J. Liberatore

Analyst

Yes, actually, our hiring sequentially was really flat. I mentioned that in my comment though I would say that, that played a small part just because we have such a large percentage of population that are less than 1 year and actually, such a large percentage of population that are in that 0 to 3 months. So there is some carry there. As we look out to Q3, we would anticipate some net hiring, nothing near what we were looking at in Q4, Q1. We're just going to be selectively hiring in where we have markets that are hitting peak productivity or when we have, call it, certain client engagements, where we're really starting to hit peak productivity or within in certain industries. So that's really how we categorize on that aspect. Dave, I don't know if you want to add a little bit more color on the SG&A.

David M. Kelly

Analyst

Yes. I think your assumption was right. As we think about SG&A in Q2, a driver of SG&A is -- continues to be that revenue responsible population and the timing of when we hire in the prior quarter and the carry of those and as we looked into Q3, one of the expectations, as I mentioned earlier, that we have and the reason why we believe we're going to generate operating leverage is, we expect that they will ramp and therefore, we'll generate leverage there. So the big driver in a lot of these things is these revenue responsible cost and the flip as to when they -- they continue to become more productive and therefore, drive revenue growth and more gross profit relative to what we're paying to -- paying them from a compensation perspective.

Joseph J. Liberatore

Analyst

Yes. And also, David mentioned it in his opening comments, we did have the one-time true-up with a specific client that impacted Tech Flex margins in Q1. So that will show itself in an elevated SG&A as well.

Ato Garrett - Deutsche Bank AG, Research Division

Analyst

Okay, great. Then also looking at the IT -- sorry, looking at the IT market overall. It seems that talent scarcity continues to be a challenge that many staffers are facing there. I'm just wondering if that's had any kind of a restraint on growth as of yet or have you been able to recruit consultants?

David L. Dunkel

Analyst

I would say there's no question, it's a restraint on growth not only from a standpoint of being able to recruit to fill the assignments but also turn over existing assignments. So I would encourage you to have your children become Technology or Computer Science majors.

Joseph J. Liberatore

Analyst

Just to put it in perspective, I mean, this quarter -- we're generating about 20% more candidates than we were 2 years ago, just to keep up with supply/demand and how quickly people are falling off. That's why we placed a lot of emphasis, really, over the better part of last month on refining our pipelines and really going after the candidate who is not active in the market and building those pipelines so that we have these virtual benches that we can access more effectively.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Morris Ajzenman from Griffin.

Morris Ajzenman - Griffin Securities, Inc., Research Division

Analyst

Question, I'm going to hop on the SG&A again. In this past quarter, again, you clearly highlighted the last couple of quarters, the beef up, the step up the SG&A investment. But in this quarter, curiously, your top line rose 3.5% year-over-year and SG&A up 9.9%. And clearly, you would telegraph that you spoke about that investment. But are you playing games here? If I was -- if the revenues gained equated to SG&A gain, the SG&A was only up 3.5% year-over-year, you could have earned close to $0.30 this quarter. But clearly, that didn't happen but going forward, a handful of quarters down the road or thereabouts -- I presume you expect leverage where revenues would not rise -- would actually rise less than or equal to SG&A. So that leveraged potential is there as your sales staff ramp up, you get more mature in age, and the investment is behind us, there's no reason to believe that revenues shouldn't grow faster than SG&A. So along with the question here -- but SG&A as a percent of revenue were 26.5% a year or so ago, this quarter, 27.7%. How many quarters out do you think before we can see SG&A as a percent of sales back down to the 26.5% level, therefore much more leverage to earnings? Is that a couple of quarters out? Is that a year out? How does that play out?

David M. Kelly

Analyst

Yes, Morris, this is Dave Kelly. As we think about looking out next quarter and in future quarters, one, certainly, we expect SG&A to trend down. As we also look forward, we'd talk about gross margins flattening. Our perspective on earnings growth is operating leverage in SG&A. We're not expecting significant gross margin growth. So when you think about percentages as we move into the third quarter, it's going to be getting back down into those ranges assuming that our guidance is met.

David L. Dunkel

Analyst

You answered your own question, Morris. I mean, you know it, you know the business well. As the revenue grows, and these revenue responsible heads start to contribute, we'll see leverage in the operating line because we're not carrying them and they're actually becoming productive. So how quickly that happens, obviously, that's not something we can predict within any element of the certainty, but the trend line and the direction is SG&A will continue to decline as a percent of revenue.

Morris Ajzenman - Griffin Securities, Inc., Research Division

Analyst

And early, I wasn't sure if you said it absolutely, you said it should decline in the third quarter, does that mean 78.5 peaked here in the second quarter or it continues to rise modestly but declines as a percent of sales?

David M. Kelly

Analyst

In terms -- on a percentage basis?

Morris Ajzenman - Griffin Securities, Inc., Research Division

Analyst

No, on an absolute basis. First, let's talk on an absolutely basis. Has it peaked here or will it continue to rise the next few quarters?

David M. Kelly

Analyst

Okay. So SG&A dollars, obviously, are co-related predominantly because of the fact that the preponderance is compensation cost. As revenues grow and we generate commissions and bonus payments to our associates and our management teams, SG&A dollars are going to increase. However, the expectation is proportionally, they will not grow as quickly as David mentioned as we generate operating leverage from the hires that we've made and as revenues grow, SG&A dollars are going to grow less quickly and therefore the percentage will be -- will go down.

Joseph J. Liberatore

Analyst

Yes, Morris, this is Joe. I would look at our population in 2 big blocks. We have revenue responsible and we have nonrevenue responsible. The nonrevenue responsible, we're not going to be adding any expense there. We believe we have the platform. So there's not going to be expense added. So that we're going to get leverage on the nonrevenue as we continue to add revenue on top. The revenue responsible, as Dave mentioned, these people are commission- based. So as they become more productive, their compensation goes up but we gain leverage on them because it's one less computer, it's less real estate, we need less management and so on and forth, so while there is some cost there, it will -- that cost will not move at the same rate as the SG&A percentage will come down.

Morris Ajzenman - Griffin Securities, Inc., Research Division

Analyst

Let me ask a little differently, then. Based on your guidance, top line rises $10 million to $12 million, sequentially, second and the third quarter. Based on that, will SG&A be flat, up or down?

David M. Kelly

Analyst

Yes. I can tell you, on a percentage basis, it should be down. If you do the math, Morris, and we think about margins, gross margins not moving very significantly either way, SG&A dollars should be relatively flat.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from John Healy from Northcoast Research.

John M. Healy - Northcoast Research

Analyst

I wanted to ask for a little bit more color on 2 things. On the Tech business, nice pickup you saw there, are you seeing or hearing from your customers any commentary on the length of assignment that they're expecting? There's candidates to be out on -- does the business seems stickier? Any qualitative comments you can provide there? And then with the hiring that you've done, is there any thought in terms of maybe not deploying those resources into existing relationships and maybe putting a segment of that -- of those recruiters or salespeople to focus on maybe a smaller business-type customers and maybe try to grow that segment of your business and overall, expand gross margins?

Joseph J. Liberatore

Analyst

Yes. So from the light of assignment standpoint, it's client specific. Number of clients that we engage with, they have term limits, so you can only keep somebody there for -- whether it's 12 months, 18 months or a year. So that pretty much fixed and you see that in a lot of larger organizations at this point in time. We're seeing length of assignment has remained very constant. So I'd say the business is healthy. For high demand skill sets, there's 10 plus jobs for certain skill sets. So the demand's out there. So length of assignment, not concerning whatsoever. In terms of the new hires that we brought on and deployment, it's actually quite the contrary. We see when we align these new hires on accounts where we have a degree of relationship so that we can further penetrate those accounts, our people ramp up faster versus if we throw them a phone book and send them chasing after a customer where there's no relationship. This business, at this point in time, at this point in the cycle, it is about relationship. The deeper your relationship is, the higher quality business that you're getting, the higher volumes of business that you're getting it. So we're actually doing quite the opposite, we're aligning our new hires more that we probably ever have with existing clients to penetrate those clients further and gain additional client share.

John M. Healy - Northcoast Research

Analyst

You might have mentioned this but I'm not sure if I missed it, I think last quarter, you said that your projected EBITDA goal for the year is to exceed $60 million. Is that still in the cards given the development in 2Q, what you see in terms of how the hiring's ramping?

David M. Kelly

Analyst

Well, I mean, I think our EBITDA this quarter approached $50 million. Expectations are for it to grow proportionally as -- once revenues grow and earnings grow. So certainly, we feel good about the trajectory of the EBITDA.

John M. Healy - Northcoast Research

Analyst

Okay. So you guys feel good about -- do you still feel good about that $60 million number?

David M. Kelly

Analyst

Yes, I think we do.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Randy Reece from Avondale Partners.

Randle G. Reece - Avondale Partners, LLC, Research Division

Analyst

I'm wondering if you could give me an idea of what your corporate expense considering on a year-over-year basis, versus the rest of your SG&A?

David M. Kelly

Analyst

It's -- Randy, relatively speaking, corporate expense has been flat for the last couple of quarters, okay? We're not -- as Joe has mentioned, one of the things that we've done over the year is made investments and we are in the stage right now where we're looking to generate operating leverage through -- we're leveraging those investments and are able to maintain corporate costs flat essentially.

Randle G. Reece - Avondale Partners, LLC, Research Division

Analyst

I gather from your comments that you expect that -- implied in your guidance is a similar gross margin in the third quarter as you have in the second quarter? Or is it similar in a year-over-year basis?

David M. Kelly

Analyst

Yes. Well, essentially, Randy, margins from the last 2 or 3 have been flat. Spreads have been flat absent payroll impacts and we expect that to continue. So sequential, specifically, to your question.

Randle G. Reece - Avondale Partners, LLC, Research Division

Analyst

You -- do you see a significant difference in behavior of the market according to, let's say, level of billing rate strata or perhaps projects versus staff aug?

Joseph J. Liberatore

Analyst

I'd say, obviously, income, we move into the statement of work business. We see a little bit better margin with a little bit higher expectation than the standard staff aug. And that's a space that we continue to go after and we continue to see more business shifting in to that arena. I would say in terms of the stratification of our client base, actually, when we look at our year-over-year, our largest clients, from a Tech standpoint, we actually experience about a 20-basis-point improvement in margins. So we're seeing bill rates start to move a little bit in the larger clients, which we haven't really seen. So part of what we've experienced is we've actually lost a little bit of margin in our stock market business and that because we're on boarding new customers and trying to penetrate and gain relationship there and work our way into that business.

Operator

Operator

I'm showing no further questions in queue at this time.

David L. Dunkel

Analyst

Okay, great. We want to thank you, all. We appreciate your interest and support for Kforce and I would personally like to thank each and every member of our field and corporate teams for turning in just a fantastic quarter, and for really performing at an exceptional level. And also, to our consultants and our clients for allowing us the privilege of serving them. We thank you very much and look forward to talking to you in the next call.

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for participating in today's conference. This concludes our program. You may all disconnect and have a wonderful day.