Good morning, everyone. I'm delighted to welcome you to another Quarterly Earnings Conference. As always, this event will be divided into 2 parts. First, Milton will go through the performance for the quarter and the year and he'll also disclose our expectations for 2025. Then we'll have the Q&A section, during which investors and analysts will be able to interact with us directly. But before I hand over the floor to Milton, I'd like to provide some guidance to help you make the most of today's presentation. For those viewing this through our website, there are 3 audio options on the screen. You can choose to listen to the entire content in Portuguese, the entire content in English, or just the original audio. For the first 2 options, we will have simultaneous translation. To choose your preferred option, just click on the flag at the top of your screen. You can also send questions via WhatsApp. To do this, just click on the button on your screen, or simply send a message directly to the number +55-11-93959-1877. Today's presentation will be available for download on the website screen and, as always, on our Investor Relations website. That's it from me for now. Now I will hand over the floor to Milton, who will begin the earnings presentation. And then I will come back to you at the end to moderate the Q&A session. Milton, the floor is all yours.

Good morning. Welcome to another earnings presentation. Let's talk about our quarterly earnings, yearly earnings, dividends and guidance. This will be quite a dense conference call covering a lot of information. I'll try to be very objective to convey the main messages. And then we'll have our Q&A, in which we can talk more broadly about the different topics of interest to all analysts who might ask us questions. I'll start by summarizing what 2024 meant for us in a slightly more qualitative way by leaving aside most of the figures for the time being. And so let me put touch on several pillars of our operation. First in terms of both culture and ESG, this year, we were recognized for our work, both by an institutional investor, who ranked us first in all categories and in the Valor 1000 Yearbook as a value company. It's the first time in history that a bank has received the Value Company of the Year award. In addition to winning as a financial institution, we also won as a value company, an incredible mark of recognition by the entire Valor team. We are very honored by this, as well as by all the other awards that we list here. As regards our ESG agenda, we made important progress in 2024. We made the commitment to go from BRL400 billion to reach up to BRL1 trillion in loan transactions and financing transactions in the capital market by granting loans to businesses and industries with positive impacts on the economy. Our role is to be the transition bank and we continue to believe that we can be this bank while never losing focus on our pillars of sustainable finance, diversity and climate transition which are very important to us. In the last quarter, I talked…

[Operator Instructions] Whatever we cannot answer here with Milton, we can answer thereafter with the IR team. Okay. Let's go. First question. We have Daniel Vaz from Safra Bank.

Congratulations on the results. It's incredible to see a 25% ROI being distributed here by the bank when adjusted here in Brazil. I wanted to talk about your guidance on expenses. You've delivered improvements on the efficiency. And the guidance, it's implicit that in the midpoint, it worsens 20 basis points because of stability. If you can give us some more detail on what is -- you're growing above revenue. Does that come from more investments in technology or a core cost that is pressured by higher inflation? Since you gave the projection for 5.8% on specific expenses, the efficiency program getting to a more advanced stage. If you can give us some more color on those expenses, that would be very productive.

Talking about expenses, very relevant messages. If we look at the year-on-year evolution of this result that we just delivered, you're going to see that there are 3 big effects. One, the profit sharing has improved. It explains 30% of the delta. I believe that this is a very important number to keep in mind, because the result of the bank growth not only in the value creation but also in the bottom line. And that affects naturally all the pools of the bank. That affects -- that's the first effect. The second effect; we had a year that we improved the labor provisions that generates a year-on-year effect. Central message -- this is an exercise that you can look. You can see what we have for labor against the costs incurred during the year. This is a model that has labor expenses that anticipates what's up to come and with a very relevant coverage. We have 3 years of coverage at least of these provisions. And it shows discipline, discipline in management. Thirdly and most importantly, all investments that we do all throughout the years -- we've done delta investments since 2021, very strong. And when you see the growth of investments, part of what we could activate, we've expensed on the result of the year itself. Part is activated and the activated part will depreciate, will lose value throughout time because of all the intangibles that we have in the balance sheet of the bank. The most important thing to see is that we're growing the level of investments. And we've stabilized for some years. We're still in the curve of depreciation. We're going to get to a plateau over the next 2 years. Delta depreciation tends to decrease year-on-year over the next 2 to 3 years until…

Second question, we have Bernardo Guttmann from XP.

Congratulations on the results. I have a question about the guidance of growth for NII clients. Taking into consideration the reduction of the risk on the portfolio and the perspective of an expansion that is lower on the portfolio, when you think about growth from now on taking into consideration some current market dynamics such as the Nubank's well position in the mass segment, high income, more competition -- so which segments can bring the best opportunities for the bank to increase its spreads? Where are the opportunities and where can we still see pressure of the competition?

Right, Bernardo. Well, let me do a general statement first about the guidance and the numbers. First, when we do the scenarios and we do the budgeting of the bank, it always has the -- it's not matched between the moment of the budget and the moment that we publish it. And we try to do the adjustments that are more relevant corrections. But this temporal -- this adjustment exists by design. Secondly, guidance, we have thresholds. They are not midpoints. So these are the best thresholds. We are conscientious of the guidance that we are publishing and the thresholds are there to capture some deviations of what we imagine with the available information. Third aspect, very important. The bank never has been so well prepared to face any scenario in the future as of now. Whether if it's a positive scenario or a challenging scenario, it doesn't matter. I am saying that because of the indicators of the cost of credit, also because of the indicators of bad debt or delinquency. We are talking about the position of the business as a whole, the capacity of growth, modernization of platforms, improvement of the journeys, evolution of NPS and the credit indicators with a robust balance, with adequate provisions for the cycle and then capital index that is post adjustment of the dividends, additional dividends, that we're probably going to talk shortly. When we look at the whole bank, the bank is well positioned for the challenges up ahead. We've done that investment in modernization of the platforms, not only the platforms that are conventional. But also we've modernized the credit and coverage. And these are relevant projects and we've concluded these projects. So our speed of reaction for any scenario that is up in the future has never been…

Thank you for the complete response. And a lot of things about guidance. Now switch back to English. We have Tito Labarta from Goldman Sachs with us.

My question is on capital, right? Core Tier 1 is still at 13.7%. I mean you did pay additional dividends. You have the buyback, the stock bonus, I think all well received by the market and to somewhat expected, I would say. I mean just given the high level of capital that you have, your ROE is running above 20%, the loan growth guidance mid-single digits roughly, it seems you will still be generating capital. So just kind of want to think, what is the appropriate level of capital that you would like to be at? Is there room to return more capital? Just to think about what kind of payout we could see in 2025.

That's a great question because we are seeing here a few times additional dividend, not extraordinary dividend. And this is meaningful. There is a reason why we are using this word. Basically because after the recovery that we made in the capital index of the bank since the pandemic, we reached a very good level of capital generation, growth and dividend distribution and buybacks. So our view is that everything constant. So if we are able to deliver the profitability that we believe we can do that. Of course, risk-weighted assets depend on the capability to grow. And this will be always the main goal, grow the business, grow the bank. And if we are not able to grow more for businesses reasons, we will be distributing the excess capital. In this year, 2025, in the first quarter, we are paying 2 relevant increments that we have in the capital index. One is operational risk that we have a hit in the first quarter and the second one risk on credit for wholesale portfolio in some specific operations. Both of them are being funded by this excess that we're going to have of 12.3. Of course, by the moment we are paying the dividend, we will be having capital generation as well. So 12 is what we look today as the target of running the bank in terms of capital index. It's 50 basis above what we have as a minimum dividend decided by the Board of Directors of the bank. So we try to operate with a buffer of 50 basis points for many reasons, for uncertainty. And let's agree that we have more uncertainty today than we had last year. This is the first topic, the capability to grow. So if we decide if there is an opportunity, we're going to grow. This will be our priority. And other businesses that we decide to do organic or inorganic. This is part of the business. So by the year-end, everything ceteris paribus, if we get by the year-end, we'll be having the same discussions that we are having now. We're going to be calculating the excess and we're going to be distributing to our shareholders in either way, paying dividends and/or buyback of the shares. And this will be what we believe the new normal. So, it's an additional. It's not extraordinary. And this is the way we're going to be approaching the market every single fiscal year. If there is any change on that, of course, you will know. But I think we have a very solid history to grow capital, to finance the business and to distribute, increasing our dividend yield for the investors. So this is what we're going to be pursuing looking forward.

Can I do a quick follow-up on it or no?

So the next question is from Thiago Batista, UBS.

Congratulations on the results. The bank seems to navigate very well this cycle. I have a question and maybe a follow-up on the question of Tito. But again, regarding the guidance -- sorry to focus on this point. I think you answered 2 of these questions already. There's a lot of questions about the 2 guidance of margin, margin with the client and margin with the market. In the margin with client, the main point is why is it so much higher than the portfolio index? And the margin index, why is it below of what we were running? And what would be the indicator for '24? Those are the 2 doubts of the guidance. And then, the follow-up to confirm. Doing the midpoint work for '25, can you imagine that the payout is 70, rounding up? Is it down this line that we should expect? Of course, you have the 12.3 that was left out. But is it this magnitude of payout that we should expect thinking about the midpoint of the guidance?

Well, great to see you, Thiago. Congratulations on the new job. Okay. Let me go back. The growth, you managed to talk about 2 relevant points. The margin projection has a double effect. First, the mix, where -- what are the products that we're going to grow, in which way, first effect. Remember that the financial margin with the clients, we have all the effects of the running capital, the way that we -- working capital, the way that we have the effect of the working capital with the margin with the clients. When we see the average of the portfolios and the mix that we are growing, especially there is the liabilities that also grow importantly, we can see the margin with the clients growing above what we see in the portfolio because we remember that with the clients, when we get it, we don't see just credit. Of course, credit is important but there is other effects on the balance that remain with the client. When we see all these effects, our capacity to grow with the liabilities the profitability, all the effect of the working capital and the portfolio and the average balance of the portfolio gives us a lot of surety in the growth of the margin. That's why it's above the portfolio effect. And remember that the portfolio is at the end. First answer. So thereafter, the margin with the market, a relevant point. I think that this is going to be a recurring question because of what I've heard from the sell side, the buy side and the reports. I want to give you an important statement. The truth is this is the most difficult line to project. When we sit down see VAR, the past results, the capacity to generate value -- well,…

Let's continue with the questions, Mario Pierry from Bank of America.

Congratulations on the result, very predictable as usual. We thought that the guidance was very in line with the projection. We really appreciate this visibility of the results. Milton, I wanted to focus on your growth of guidance. When we see you're expecting a nominal GDP of growing 8% and the growth of the portfolio in the middle is 6.5% -- so I wanted to understand better. Can you tell us more on the growth of line per product? And the growth of Brazil against the Latin American portfolio which usually you have this effect? Your total credit reflects your operations outside of Brazil. So is this growth valid just for Brazil? Or is it really the total and Brazil should be growing higher and Latin America is bringing it down? And also complementing -- when I see the guidance of the cost of credit, it doesn't seem so negative. I think that the low guidance -- you were saying that the cost of credit -- well, it seems that there is a big concern for the appetite of credit. At the same time, you don't see a worsening of the cost of credit. So I just wanted to understand your train of thought.

First, growth in Brazil tends to be higher than Latin America. But for those of you to do an exercise, I think that in Brazil we're going to grow in the midpoint, 7. There is 50 points between the consolidated and the Brazilian portfolio, distributed on the several businesses and with some businesses that depend on the market dynamics, exchange rate variation which has an effect but especially the capital markets. So this year, we grew a lot in big companies because the capital markets were very active. And we found good opportunities for the operations. And we have a basic effect. Remember that the dynamics of Itaú BBA has an effect on the portfolio and we have the opportunities to generate the portfolio. It's not a buy and hold. It's only when the operation makes sense at the right price but with the vision of generating a portfolio and optimizing the relationship with the clients and the -- optimizing the capital of the bank. It depends on the scenario; the market of capitals can be in volume. Capital markets, local, can be 30%, 40% lower than the year of '24 which brings a few challenges naturally because you have more origination and distribution. On the other hand, you can have opportunities of getting more portfolio, more credit. In the natural person’s portfolio, well, we are well distributed in the several lines of business and we see the products more and more and we see the client. So I think that in this era of hyper personalization, customer-centric service, the product is necessarily not the chief bandwagon but it's how we service the client in that risk profile in that case in that segment. So we believe that the natural person can grow, can continue to grow. And then in…

Next one, Yuri Fernandes from JPMorgan.

Congratulations on the great result. I think that the expectations for you are high but it's part of your success. I'm going to ask about the wholesale bank. The SELIC rate is higher. So what is your expectation? And are you getting into the DCM market, opening spreads? How would it impact origination? Anything on asset quality that concerns? Thinking about the source of the wholesale, if you can explore on this part, I would expect -- I would thank you for giving us more details.

I think that the expectation is the expectation itself. And what we expect to do is to deliver or overcome the expectation whenever possible and having a good -- being aware -- good awareness of the scenario up ahead. This is how we've done the management of the bank. And talking about the wholesale bank, a few messages. The portfolio of the bank is well positioned. We managed to grow the portfolio in an important way. We have an effect of exchange rate. I'm talking exclusively about Itaú BBA. But still, the portfolio grew relevantly. Ratings that are very good. Rates and spreads that are very adequate, very important to this point, because growing portfolio with a low spread destroying the value is easy to do. You don't need any technology. And what we try to do is actually look at the cross-sell, client, ad hoc, return on allocated capital. This is -- the discipline of capital allocation is a differential of our bank today, competitive differential. And it makes a difference as we allocate and grow the relationships. What I believe that makes a lot of difference with Itaú BBA is the positioning of the franchise that goes beyond the credit portfolio that is well robust and strong with low concentration, well positioned, looking at longer cycles with the right price, with good profitability on the allocated capital and also our whole capacity for cross-sell. That makes a big difference, whether if it's cross-sell of the day-to-day operations, derivatives, exchange rate or the cross-sell of payments, flux, cash management, the investment which is not just cross-sell. We have aggregated value. We have alpha. When we have a relationship of trustworthiness with the client and we service them with all the needs as -- Flavia [ph] in Itaú BBA, they…

Next question we have here. Hello, Nisher [ph]. Okay. Now we can hear you.

I have 2 questions. First, the ROI. It's difficult to see how can you improve it. Maybe you had a tremendous result but looking at the verticals, different business views that you report -- the credit vertical, given the improvement, it still runs below the cost of capital of the bank. How do you see the evolution of this vertical all throughout time? Chile which still runs below the cost of capital, you had an improvement but still below the peers of Latin America that you can run with an ROI that is interesting. And my second question is in regards to the credit cycle, delinquency and the quality of portfolio that you've managed to improve even below the pre-pandemic. I wanted to know if you can somehow -- what do you see for this indicator? And can we keep the threshold structurally very low if you see a worsening in 2025 in the cycle? If you can tell us about the new crops, what's up ahead?

From the standpoint of profitability, I believe that we have naturally homework to do every single day. And capital allocation is, without a doubt, a mantra here. We discussed this thoroughly. It's a competitive differential of the bank. I believe this is true because the way that we do the capital management allocation, we make the decisions that are prospective. We do not do operations just looking at the short term and giving incentives down the line. This is a relevant differential that has shown itself strong from the standpoint of strategy and decision. When I look at the business, you have the -- while the cost of capital has done a catch-up that is important. And you don't reprice the portfolio in the same speed that the cost of equity grows. So this is an important message. So as you see an increase in the cost of capital, the ROI of the credit operations tends to not follow up in the first moment and then you reprice the portfolio as time goes by. There is some temporal mismatch. So the other side of the same coin, this credit portfolio allows us to have the level of revenue in the bank. So our capacity of cross-sell and not look at the ad hoc of credit stand-alone. Of course, it's important to look at the ad hoc of credit stand-alone but not ignoring the capacity of cross-sell that you have with the client and looking at the relationship. And at the end of the day, you have to look at the return of the capital, not of the relationship and not just the capital, even do -- we do both and with a lot of discipline. This is the differential in the way that we work with the bank. When I…

The NPL.

NPL, 90. In the 15 -- well, in the short, we haven't seen any -- well, all the crops are performing very well. We haven't seen any mismatch in the crops. We have more pressure indeed in the short delays. If we look at the numbers, for example, NPL 90 of small and medium companies, we improved 50 points in the last quarter. And this is -- 20 is explained by the growth of the portfolio and 30 basis points of improvement of the NPL itself. So it's important -- I would declare that we are very comfortable with the quality of the crops. We are not foreseeing any problem. We can see that the management of the portfolio, the management through the cycle has worked. And this is what will allow us to have the opportunities that we're not going to have to explain unless we have a radical change, an increase in the delays regardless of the rupture which might give you a space for growing in quality over the next few years. So we are very comfortable with all the results, whether if it's a short delay, tempestuous, over 30, 93. Everything that we measure with satisfactory thresholds.

Next question, Renato Meloni from Autonomous.

Congratulations on the results. Two questions. First, the guidance. And how do you see the trajectory of the materialization of the guidance? So you're growing with the year and that reverses on the second quarter? Or do you have a linear expectation? If you can talk about the main risks that you see for this year? And secondly, I wanted to mention the Consignado, private. How do you see the product? Do you think that this is an opportunity segment? And do you see a risk of cannibalization of other products, because we have the consumer that is leveraged and probably without being able to take more credit, personal credit in other products?

Let me talk about the linearity of the guidance. It's very difficult given the size of our operation to attribute every line, the geography at the start. It depends on the result of the first quarter. You start to understand a bit better how we behave. So remember, last year, the portfolio in the first quarter, we are below the threshold of the guidance. It has a different behavior in the different lines. It has some continuity and others that are easier to project. But generally, I don't see a great volatility. The portfolio has that. It doesn't bring a lot of volatility unless we have a specific businesses or some structured wholesale operations, performance fees which in the fourth quarter we can capture these effects. The rest has some linearity from the accounting standpoint. Margin with the market has volatility, a quarter that is better or worse. But in general, we can expect some linearity. And we see the base effect regarding the previous year, if we are getting a stronger quarter or less that might generate some effects. That's the first aspect. Second point about the consigned and private credit. This is a great opportunity because this can be a program of credit that is very strong, very positive. We've had a meeting with President Lula and the ministers to discuss the potential and the importance. And what I've told you at the meeting, I'm going to give you back. The salary here, mass, is BRL170 billion. If you look at the credit, private, consigned and private personal credit, the penetration of -- the 2 added, gives a relation of 1.1:1. So we have 10% more in credit for this population than we have the salary mass. And 30% of these operations are done at the private payday…

Going to go back to English now as we have Jorge Echevarria from Morgan Stanley with us.

So, I want to ask you quickly about the acquiring business. We've seen TPV growth decelerate across credit cards and debit cards. Credit card TPV grew 6% this quarter compared to 18% last year. Debit card was flat compared to 7% growth last year. Your market share has been relatively stable around 22%. So a couple of questions. One, I want to get a sense on the market share dynamics for 4Q, if your market share was relatively flat or there's market share gains in this quarter? And two, I want to get a sense on the outlook for the acquiring business in 2025, both in terms of TPV growth expectations and in terms of competition. Because as you are growing and launching -- well, you already launched -- but growing on the Atlas [ph] initiative in SMEs, there is an expectation that you could potentially not be that aggressive in prices. Meaning with higher SELIC, some of the other acquirers are expected to increase prices, particularly of the prepayment of credit card operations. But there's an expectation that Itaú has more room to maneuver on price and maybe be more competitive throughout 2025.

Well, I have a broad overview about this discussion and I'll try to be very pragmatic here to deliver the most relevant messages. The first one is that for many years when all the acquiring companies were listed, there was this massive discussion about the acquiring market, how relevant the market share, the profitability, if you're gaining share, if you're losing share, what is your TPV growth, what is the MDR, credit, debit, so on and so forth. I think this dynamic has changed for a few years now. So, just to give you a few numbers here. If we look to the cash management, payments, receivables and payments that we have for our clients, the TPV of the credit card in the whole system, it's only 4% of the whole cash management business. So it's relevant. Yes, it's relevant. It's important, of course but it's only 4%. And we look at the broader market. We don't look only the credit card market and the acquiring business. This is one topic. The second one. The way we release the data in our balance sheet, it's not very precise for you to make the calculation about the take rate and the profitability. And this is for 2 main reasons. The MDR and the flexed anticipation we do that it's embedded in the MDR, it is in the service and fee business. When we go to the margin with client, we have the anticipations that we do when we buy receivables and the cost of funding of the MDR that we anticipate. So for 2 reasons that I just explained, you cannot see the whole business altogether when you look to that. The third information and I think this is very relevant, even though we are the leader in this market for…

The next question is from Brian Flores from Citi.

You talk about efficiency on the spreads and the cross-selling. So on the revenue of services and commissions, I just wanted to understand what leads to this dynamic of growing below the growth of the portfolio? And the thing that we didn't discuss, how does One Itaú will get in if this is the case in this equation?

I believe that we have to look at the mix. And we have a growth. I look at the revenue of services more associated to GDP than activity more than the portfolio. And we have to see that the breakdown of the revenue of services is distributed amongst the lines of businesses. Doing a summary in the aggregate is difficult. In the issuance, we did derisking very strong all throughout the years, focusing on the relevant clients through the cycle. And the credit card is a relationship and transactionality product that is very important for relationship. And focusing that we are growing the product, 17% is the growth year-on-year, than what we did with Personnalite, Uniclass. Good rhythm of growth that is an exchange. But the derisking of the portfolio where we left has a negative impact because you have less portfolio in these clients. But VPL of this decision is very positive because the -- well, we have the delinquency and the exchange rate and this is an important cycle for delinquency. With the high interest rates, more inflation, we have the commitment of income higher and we have a challenging scenario for credit. How will it materialize time will tell. When we look at the other 2 lines that are very relevant -- the other 3 lines, we talk about asset management. We see the opportunity of growing, whether if it's because of the volume of capture, we have a flow of capture that is very strong, a higher volume of capture either by performance fee which is similar. And it's very difficult but we have more volume in the money -- in the asset than what we had in the end of the year. So it shows that our capacity of performance -- and charging performance fee…

Exercising our ability to switch back in Portuguese and English, we have with us Carlos Gomez from HSBC.

Congratulations on the results. I was looking at where you started the year and where your guidance was initially. And you were expecting in 2024 to -- Brazil to grow 1.8%. It ended up growing twice as high, 3.6%. You also expected a little bit less inflation. Where do you think that is reflected in the results? And is there a risk that at some point we have a year which is down versus what you were expecting? And my second question is about the tax rate. I see that you are guiding for a higher one this year. Last year, you were at the end of the -- at the higher end of the range. Any change that we should be aware of or any reason why the rate is higher now?

So the GDP, as I was mentioning in the beginning, looking for the perspectives of 2025, this is the best number available. We see that the agri business should grow around 5% this year, should be relevant, not only for the business but for all the impacts it generates in the places where the agri is very strong which is very strong throughout Brazil in many regions. So I would say that -- the GDP, it's an information that we use. But at the end of the day, we are so connected with the clients, with the activity in all the lines of business that we have, in all the business that we discussed, that, if the activity is getting better, we are getting better. If there is more opportunity, we don't lose time because we had an expectation of the GDP to grow only 1.8%, it end up growing 3.6%, for instance. Because the GDP growth has many distributions throughout the country, regions, places, industries. We are connected with all those businesses. So we feel the flow online and the GDP is a consequence. So of course, at the end of the day, you can forecast what you can expect when you look at the GDP. But if the behavior throughout the year is different, we can capture that online due to the penetration and the close relationship that we have with the whole country and the whole companies and whole clients, so on and so forth. So I just use the GDP to forecast. But if there is any change, if the economy is doing better or worse, of course, we are projecting but we can feel that online. This is a pass-through to our businesses. So this is the first answer. And the second one about the…

But you don't expect any...

And we're going to the last question now. We're going to see in English because it's coming from Nicolas Riva from Bank of America. We don't hear you, Nicolas. Not sure you're in mute. We cannot hear you. I'm sorry. No.

Try again. I think we heard some noise from your mic. You're not listening. Try again, Nicolas. Maybe we can -- maybe we can later...

Can I ask a question while Nicolas is connecting? Okay. Let me get a question here from WhatsApp. We tried, Nicolas. Otherwise, we can call him back and get his question. So a lot of questions on guidance costs, a lot of questions on migration for the super app. Going to get one from here. So when they ask about the super app, the One Itau, when do we expect to get to the potential -- total potential of this migration? You said that nothing is incorporated in the guidance of '25, that the main one is quality. When do we expect the maturation of this initiative?

I am under the impression, Renato, that over the next 6 months, we're going to have a sensitivity that is higher of our real capacity of getting a relationship with the client of giving credit cross-sell. Remember that this is a client that we know. It's not a new client. So they have a behavior. It's a client that has a relationship with us. And they end up having access to a series of features. So we have all the opportunities. But we need to test pilot, get to know. It's very difficult. At the middle of the year, I'm going to have all the answers. We're going to have more information but we're going to be more safe. But imagine the potential of a basis that is less explored. 50 million clients that has different behaviors spread in the different segments. We have to evolve the experience. So this is ongoing. It's difficult to say that over the next 6 months, we're going to be able to project where we're going to get. We're going to be able to show the evolution and what we see in terms of potential when you can scalinate this for other clients. So this is not a project that has a beginning, middle and end. It's a new way of relationship with the clients. And we always do data relationship through the monolinear. And this changed -- and this is going to open new opportunities, new learnings, new corrections, new adjustments. It's a bit on how we expect to work with this platform. Nothing is implicit in the results. As we have more surety and tranquility, we can incorporate as they become more relevant in the numbers.

Milton, they informed me that we couldn't connect with Nicolas. Well, we are going to answer all the questions that we've got through WhatsApp. And we didn't have the time.

Well, what I can tell to Nicolas before we conclude is that in some cases, we exercise the call. And in other, we look at the economic aspects of the debts, different tranches, Tier 1, Tier 2. There is local Tier 1 and offshore. So Nicolas, if it helps, for each case, we're going to position ourselves. In some cases, we exercise the call of ELF. In some we did. It depends on the scenario. As we have more information, we can publish it. And maybe it helped -- I imagine that your question could have been along those lines. To conclude, I would like to thank you. In the end, I want to show you that we are very aware of the guidance, that we are very much prepared to face whatever the challenges. Speed is the name of the game. Capacity of reaction is the name of the game. So our businesses are evolving. All the businesses are evolving and growing. The more important thing is that we see a lot of opportunities to continue to evolve and grow. It's not that we got to the cap and then we -- we have a lot of space to evolve. All the discussions and meetings, we have opportunities all throughout. I respect the competition. I respect the other banks to what they've done. But we also have to run faster and continue to deliver results. So we're very satisfied with the results obtained in '24, over the last years. Very excited with the perspectives. And we will pilot the scenario down to the -- with -- well, we've managed to pilot very well in adverse scenarios. If the scenario is more difficult, we're going to be strengthened on the other side. If the scenario is of opportunity, we're going to be strengthened as well. So I have a positive cautious tone from the standpoint that we have to look up ahead. And we have to take into consideration the information. We have to look at the perpetuity of what we do and not just look at the next quarter so we can continue to have solid results with good profitability, good payouts, good capacity for investment and growing the franchise. Very excited. Thank you very much for the feedback. And we will see each other in 3 months to see how the first quarter was working and then we will have more sensitivity of whatever adjustments that might be necessary, if they are necessary. Once again, thank you very much. Thank you, Renato, for your work of management along with Gustavo and the IR team. Well, I am -- there is still a lot to do and I'm excited. Thank you and see you next time.