Michael Tardugno
Analyst · JonesTrading
And just let me add a little bit to that. We've just taken a look at real world data coming from the Medicare database. And we'll probably put this into a slide I think that is a central theme to our corporate presentation, but I think it's worth looking at for those who want to. When we look at the treatment options for patients who are not surgical candidates, intermediate stage HCC patients, their options include RFA, microwave ablation, chemoembolization, embolization and radiation embolization. For the most part, that's it, it’s five options. RFA currently is administered in the Medicare population, which is an older population, so might be skewed a little bit here. In newly diagnosed patients, it's about 19% of newly diagnosed patients. And overall, about 22% of patients. So -- and we had been estimating in our business model somewhere between 20% and 25%. So we're almost hitting it spot on. This treatment represents a drop in to RFA. Our biggest challenge I think is going to -- if there is a challenge here, is going to be educating RFA practitioners on the appropriate technique to maximize the effect, not only of RFA, but to maximize the impact of ThermoDox, which is in a hard sell. Once you see the data, it’s just not a hard sell. That technique, we actually neck in, [indiscernible] developed a web based interactive training program for that. The other thing I'd say from the Medicare database when we talk about costs, we've been really focused on the cost efficiency of ThermoDox and RFA. RFA all in, the patients who are treated with RFA, the Medicare database would suggest that 12 months treatment costs for those patients from the time they're diagnosed to the procedures implemented and the following 12 months, the cost to healthcare system is around $60,000. The cost for surgical patient is over $200,000, the cost for a chemoembolization patient is over $200,000. The cost for radiation treatment embolization treatment approaches $200,000. So if we can, in 22% of patients, they will expand enormously, I'm convinced to a broader range of -- if and once the data is positive, even if it's only 22%. And if we just dropped it, we have a very, I think, very significant opportunity for, not only for pricing, but expanding the use of RFA into a broader patient population. Well, I think that'd be an interesting slide for us to put together for you and some of the other analysts.