Earnings Labs

Generac Holdings Inc. (GNRC)

Q1 2020 Earnings Call· Thu, Apr 30, 2020

$248.43

+14.42%

Key Takeaways · AI generated
AI summary not yet generated for this transcript. Generation in progress for older transcripts; check back soon, or browse the full transcript below.

Same-Day

-4.26%

1 Week

+1.81%

1 Month

+13.39%

vs S&P

+7.33%

Transcript

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the First Quarter 2020 Generac Holdings Inc. Earnings Conference Call. At this time all participants are in a listen only mode. After the speakers presentation there will be a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. [Operator instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Mike Harris, Vice President of Corporate Development and Investor Relations. Thank you. Please go ahead, sir.

Mike Harris

Analyst

Good morning, and welcome to our first quarter 2020 earnings call. I'd like to thank everyone for joining us this morning. With me today is Aaron Jagdfeld, President and Chief Executive Officer; and York Ragen, Chief Financial Officer. We will begin our call today by commenting on forward-looking statements. Certain statements made during this presentation, as well as other information provided from time to time by Generac or its employees, may contain forward-looking statements and involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in these forward-looking statements. Please see our earnings release or SEC filings for a list of words or expressions that identify such statements and the associated risk factors. In addition, we will make reference to certain non-GAAP measures during today's call. Additional information regarding these measures, including reconciliation to comparable U.S. GAAP measures, is available on our earnings release and SEC filings. I will now turn the call over to Aaron.

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst

Thanks, Mike. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. Overall, net sales were a record for the first quarter and met expectations, led by strong core growth in residential products of approximately 9%. Relative to expectations, home standby shipments came in well ahead of our prior forecast, continuing the strength seen over the past several quarters, including strong demand in California. Also, we are pleased that shipments of our PWRcell energy storage system met our expectations after the first full quarter of its commercial launch in December. This strong performance within residential products was mostly offset by lower-than-expected shipments for domestic mobile products and continued weakness in international markets following the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, which has triggered a significant decline in demand in certain end markets that we serve. On a year-over-year basis, net sales increased 1% during the first quarter of 2020 as compared to the very strong prior year first quarter, where overall revenue growth was 18%. Core sales growth for the quarter declined approximately 3% against the robust prior year comparison of approximately 15% growth. Gross margin expanded 170 basis points compared to the prior year, and adjusted EBITDA margin was 18.1% as both exceeded our expectations primarily due to favorable mix from higher-than-expected shipments of residential products. Before discussing first quarter results in more detail, it's hard to overstate the impact that COVID-19 pandemic has had in creating major economic uncertainty across the globe so far in 2020, including weaker demand and supply chain constraints, along with the unknown impacts from a variety of far-reaching government actions. Our team has been incredibly proactive and diligent in evaluating and responding to the impact on the business to date and was planning for various scenarios that may unfold during the months and quarters…

York Ragen

Analyst

Thanks, Aaron. Looking at our first quarter 2020 results in more detail. Net sales for the quarter increased 1.2% to $475.9 million as compared to $470.4 million in the first quarter of 2019. Excluding the $21.2 million of contribution from the Captiva, Neurio and Pika acquisitions and approximately $3 million negative impact from foreign currency, core sales declined approximately 3% during the quarter. Briefly looking at consolidated net sales for the first quarter by product class. Residential product sales during the first quarter increased 18.3% to $257.6 million as compared to $217.8 million in the prior year, with core growth being approximately 9% when excluding the contributions from clean energy products acquired through Neurio and Pika. As Aaron already discussed in detail, home standby generators sales continue to experience very strong year-over-year growth approaching 20%. Partially offsetting the home standby strength during the first quarter was a decline in shipments of portable generators, primarily as a result of the higher power outage activity in the prior year quarter. Commercial and industrial product net sales for the first quarter of 2020 declined 17.7% to $172.1 million as compared to $209.1 million in the prior year quarter, with a core sales decline of approximately 17% when excluding the contributions from the Captiva acquisition and the unfavorable impact from foreign currency. As Aaron mentioned, shipments to both national telecom and rental account customers declined significantly compared to the prior year as these customers can significantly fluctuate their capital expenditures from quarter-to-quarter, especially during this current environment. Internationally, our C&I products declined compared to the prior year on a core basis due to the continuation of a challenging economic environment entering the first quarter, that worsened during the quarter as the spread of coronavirus pandemic accelerated. Net sales for the other products and services…

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Your first question from the line of Brian Drab with William Blair.

Brian Drab

Analyst

But can you talk a little bit about what you're expecting in the solar market in the second quarter and beyond, expecting drop-off in consultations and installations in that market, just given social distancing? And what have you seen so far in April in that market?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst

Yes, Brian, so on the clean energy market, as we define it, it's really solar plus storage. And what we did is, we put our guidance range at 125 to 150 megawatts for the full year, which is down somewhat slightly from the more bullish number we gave on the last call. And that really a lot of that pullback is going to happen here in the second quarter. Solar installations are down notably, some 25%, 30%, depending on which firm you talk to and which part of the country you look at. But the good news is solar storage attachment rates are up. So, that's kind of offsetting some of that. So I think net-net, we're saying that the new guide for storage for the year is 125 to 150 megawatt hours, but the second quarter is probably going to be a little bit lower than we were hoping.

Brian Drab

Analyst

Okay. And how has your supply I know you're saying one of the limitations here, the big limitation in that clean energy business was your supply chain. And how is that shaping up in this environment? And is that still restraining you?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst

Yes. Actually, oddly enough. I mean, we've the team has been working very hard on supply chain and this to broaden our base. Generally, the companies we acquired were smaller, start-up businesses with fairly localized supply chains initially and certainly not supply chains that could build the scale. So, we had to completely reinvent that for the most part. And the teams did a great job on that. And I think that was a watch out early on for us. But right now, we feel like we're in a pretty good position. And frankly, I think with the overall pullback in the market, our numbers, I think, would mirror much of what others are saying about the clean energy space in general. I think there's probably going to be a little bit more supply to be added than maybe was originally anticipated simply because of the lower volumes that are going to be out there.

Brian Drab

Analyst

Okay, great. And then maybe I'll just ask one more for now. But did you say anything about what you have seen in April in terms of in-home consultations for the legacy home standby product? And maybe could you comment about what you're seeing in terms of IHCs inside California and outside California?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst

Yes. I mean, IHCs have been really strong for us so far in April. We track we track a lot of metrics for that business, obviously, leading indicators, lagging indicators. But the one that we track very closely, obviously, as a leading indicator is IHCs, VHCs, we now call them VHCs because they're virtual. They're double so far in April here versus last year, which is great. And for this time of year, in particular, generally, we would be kind of entering a bit of a lull period here in terms of new sales leads, coming kind of the transition from winter to spring is something that generally slows the sales cycle down a bit. Seasonally, we've just seen this. It repeats pretty reliably. We've definitely decoupled from that. Now we had a lot of power outages down south last week, about 1.4 million people in the south last week and about 300,000 people actually yesterday in Texas and Louisiana. But what's interesting is so certainly, some of that strength is coming from that. And we look specifically at those regions. But specifically, when we look at VHCs kind of regionally, they're strong everywhere. And in fact, what's really odd to us, you look at California alone, California and you look at IHCs, it's they're in April here, they're crazy high. I mean, they're 10 times what they were last year. And there haven't been any outages yet in California. So our thesis underpinning this is that, there's just been a dramatic increase in the awareness around the importance of backup power with everybody sheltering in place. The idea of working from home and learning from home and all these other things that the home is a sanctuary, I think a continuous supply of power, safety, security, the ability to go on with life, takes on a completely new meaning, when you're cooped up inside your home 24/7. And I think people in the uncertainty around how long the pandemic may last, and whether it may reoccur in the fall or may persist or rather future pandemics, whatever the case may be, I think it just adds one more layer of consideration for people when it comes to thinking about needing backup power. And I think that's also contributing to some of the increased attachment rates that we're seeing in the solar plus storage. I think we know from customers that resiliency is important to them. Now we also know and we told customers, they don't get a tremendous amount of resiliency out of those products, but they do get some. And I think it's important though to note that those things all kind of point to the fact that I think the pandemic itself is raising the awareness and just heightening the level of anxiety around making sure people have backup power.

Operator

Operator

And your next question line of Mike Halloran with Baird.

Mike Halloran

Analyst

So just staying on the home standby side here. Maybe just talk a little bit about how you see this cadencing out here? Obviously, strong consultations, as we sit here today. How does that compare to installs? Is it just building a backlog for you to execute on? Are you able to execute on as it sits today? And then when you think about the guidance range as well, is the expectation for growth in the home standby product category year-over-year, is that what's embedded in guidance as well?

York Ragen

Analyst

Yes. I mean I think what we said in the prepared comments is that residential products overall would be up solid, I think, was the word I used in the prepared comments, but underpinning that would be growth slight growth in home standby, which I think is which is a win in this environment.

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst

And Mike, I think just to answer the first part of your question there about IHCs or VHCs and how they kind of mature into installations and are we able to keep up and backlog and things like that. I think thankfully, we've got it's amazing to me. The residential part of our business, which I would have said 6, seven years ago, our visibility in that part of the business was much more limited. It's definitely easily, probably are most visible. Part of the business today in terms of just the metrics that we track all the time fences between when an IHC occurs to when that turns into an order, to when that order turns into an installation, to when that installation turns into a first use of the product. I mean we've got all of those interesting time fences. So we're able to kind of take and model a lot of what we see for those leading indicators like VHCs. We're able to model those into installations down the line and look at kind of what we're going to need in terms of installation bandwidth, production bandwidth, things like that. And so obviously, our first priority here right now is making sure we keep our residential home standby production lines as operational as fully operational as we can. We're looking to hire 150 people right now between our Whitewater and Jefferson facilities. Some of that is to cover for some of the increased absenteeism we're seeing, but some of it is just flat out growth in the production rates as we go forward here. We're entering the important time of kind of preseason build for that market. Now we're sitting on a pretty decent amount of inventory in our four walls, but our field inventory levels, I would say are I don't know, you're clearly looking at this the other day, but field inventory are...

York Ragen

Analyst

These are lower than last year.

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst

Days of inventory days on hand are lower than they were a year ago. So, obviously when we kind of put all that together, and again, that's just another really cool statistic that we're able to pull out because we every 100% of all products get activated. So, we know 100% clarity to field inventory, which is, I think, unique. So, we put all that together. And again, our priority is on that. Now what could go wrong with that? I mean obviously, a supply chain disruption, some potential reoccurrence or re-emergence of the pandemic or an acceleration of it. Those are all things that could be a problem. On the installation side itself, we've been very encouraged that, although, we've heard kind of spotty cases of inspectors not being able to make inspections and things, because they're not working right now, they've been furloughed or but largely, our activation rates, when we look at it, which is installations, they've remained very robust. So, we know the installations are happening. We know where they're happening. And where they're not happening, we're helping out. We're trying to help out with inspectors and walk them through those things. It's interesting how many municipalities. We think that probably half of all the municipalities today have shifted to a virtual permitting process. Now the inspection process itself isn't quite there yet, but they're issuing the permits virtually, the construction permits that are needed and the building permits in any of these projects. So we're watching a lot of data points, but we feel pretty good on that. And York?

York Ragen

Analyst

And I will add the number that I gave in terms of that home standby growth year-over-year was our baseline guidance. That doesn't include a major event, should that happen.

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst

Good point.

Mike Halloran

Analyst

And then you certainly spent a lot of time talking about mobile, telecoms, some other things. Maybe a little comment and context on how the traditional commercial businesses are tracking? Obviously, got some puts and takes there, some decent secular drivers as well as the more institutional side, where there's still going to be decent demand versus some nonres concerns. Maybe just put all those pieces together and talk about what you're seeing on that side?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst

Yes. So, on our -- I'll call it our traditional C&I channel, which is our industrial distributor channel here in North America, I'll speak to that first. Actually, for the quarter, they were slightly up. So, we think we're doing all right there, outside of the telecom, kind of lumpiness that we talked about. And actually, we knew the first half of this year, the telecom companies had told us based on their scheduling and the way their CapEx budgets were rolling through this year, that, that was going to be more of a back half type of update for them. That's the part of the guidance really that took the biggest hit was telecom in the second half. And then the mobile products, of course, which we've talked in length about, with the collapse in oil prices, in particular, driving that. But the core C&I business, those products are generally late cycle, right? So, you build a building, a new hospital wing, a grocery store or whatever, the product the generator itself doesn't need to arrive at the site until the facility is just about ready to open. So what we see going on right now, as we see a lot of projects coming to closure and the generators being put into those projects. What we're worried about going forward is where does nonres construction activity go. So you look at AIA Billings Indexes and you look at other leading indicators there, and they would indicate some weakness, at least certainly in Q2 here. But perhaps longer term, if this is more of a U-type recovery or maybe even an L-type recovery depending on your viewpoints, if it doesn't do if it doesn't come back like in a V shape through the second half, and we've and that's kind of what we've assumed. We have assumed that it doesn't come back in the second half for that traditional C&I business. So if we get a better or a quicker recovery there, maybe it will. But largely, we feel like we're still winning in that market. We just think that, that market, knowing what we know about trends and watching our quotation, our inbound quotation trend has been very choppy the last kind of six weeks or so. We've had some up weeks, we've had some down weeks. And so we're watching it. But my sense is, knowing that we're late cycle and knowing that we're entering kind of a period of economic uncertainty. I think we're going to see fewer projects going forward, which likely is going to put pressure on that channel, and that's really what we've modeled here in the guidance today.

Operator

Operator

Your next question from the line of Christopher Glynn with Oppenheimer.

Christopher Glynn

Analyst · Oppenheimer.

Just wanted to verity on the comment, VHC is up to a double year-over-year. Is that combining the VHC/IHC concepts or like total consultations, is what that refers to?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst · Oppenheimer.

Correct. So think of them as all VHCs going forward, Chris. That's how we'll start to refer to them.

Christopher Glynn

Analyst · Oppenheimer.

And I think you addressed the deployment characteristics. Sounds like dealers are proving very resilient so far. I'm wondering, if there's any market for ESS attachments, independent of solar or if it's exclusively tied to solar?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst · Oppenheimer.

Yes. There are some. It really depends on the market specifics in terms of the price of power in a particular market, incentives that may be available in that market. Some utilities have policies prohibiting some of those types of approaches. So it's kind of utility-to-utility as well. So I would say though largely, the market is a solar plus storage market at this point. As power rates continue to increase, so the spark spread, the cost at which you can buy power on the wholesale market versus the cost at which you can produce it on-site or store it on-site for, as that continues to widen, a storage-only type of approach or an approach where you're producing power through some other means, a gas generator, maybe geothermal, something like this and then storing that power in a system and then using it at a later time. That could become more prevalent in the future.

Christopher Glynn

Analyst · Oppenheimer.

Okay. And last one here. The $25 million to $30 million cost out, should we think of that as predominantly flowing through your C&I businesses?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst · Oppenheimer.

It will be more disproportionately impacting the C&I businesses. Although, I will say some of the advertising that we've taken out the advertising and promotion we've taken out in our residential businesses to match kind of the slight reduction in guide there. There's a part of that, the dollars add up quick on that side of business because it's such a big business. But largely, the $25 million to $30 million, you can think of as cost-outs associated with mobile, stationary C&I and our international businesses.

Operator

Operator

And your next question comes from the line of Jerry Revich with Goldman Sachs.

Jerry Revich

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

Yes. Can you folks talk about what proportion of your dealer network is it has accepted and is doing VHCs there? And in terms of the productivity that you folks are getting at, can you talk about the improvement as a result of VHCs instead of IHCs? What have the early numbers been like in terms of how many more proposals or single distributors able to do as a result of the efficiency gains there?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

Yes. Jerry, the VHC process, it's interesting. We actually have been developing this over the last couple of years. And we've been reticent to turn it on because there's a fundamental belief that a sales transaction, the act of selling is a transferal of a motion, and that transference of a motion generally tends to take place more readily in person. And so that's been the foundational element of our in-home sales process, which is largely a kind of kitchen table sales pitch. So, we've had this VHC process in development. We obviously accelerated it, as anxiety levels for anybody coming in your home today are much higher than they were two months ago. We accelerated that, rolled it out to the dealers over the last 45 days. The dealers it's been a learning curve, and but what they found, interestingly enough to kind of get to the heart of your question. They found that they're able to be more productive overall because they don't have the travel element. Or they don't have as great of a travel element and the time commitment to do the VHC is substantially lower. They're able to do these proposals and send them off electronically. They're able to conduct with a couple of pictures, a couple of questions from the homeowner, maybe a walk around the site, depending on kind of complexities of a particular site, maybe job to job. But largely, the feedback from dealers is they've been more productive. Now it's pretty new. So the last 45 days, I don't think it would be worthwhile to give you like hard stats on, like the numbers in terms of productivity, and it continues to ramp. But the percentage of dealers that are doing it is very high. And again, that's largely because homeowners are they're just not keen on people being in their homes right now. So, we've encouraged them to shift to this process and they've accepted it quite well. Homeowners have accepted it quite well. And everybody at this point is very pleased with the transition.

Jerry Revich

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

And just to clarify, even with everything's going on in relatively limited rollout of VHCs, you folks the combination of IHC plus VHCs have doubled year-over-year in April, with everything that's going on?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

Exactly. Yes, that's the part that again, I can't stress enough how amazing or resilient the home standby business is for us. It's a shockingly durable business and I've seen this before. We saw this in the '08 housing crisis. The home that residential products business for us grew during the housing crisis. Now it's got low penetration rates and it's got obviously, power outages continue to grow and people's dependence on power grows. And you add this additional layers that we've talked about of sheltering-in-place as an additional level of anxiety around losing your power. And it's just a...

York Ragen

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

Dependency on technology...

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

Dependency on technology and communication and connectivity of the world. I mean it's amazing. If you lose power and you're in your home today, I mean, it's a different experience and maybe it even was 30 days ago or 60 days ago.

Jerry Revich

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

Okay. And in terms of the battery storage part of the business, just order of magnitude, can you just correct me if I'm wrong, so you folks installed about 20 or so megawatts in first quarter? And it sounds like you expect to do something like 10 in the second and exit the year, 60 megawatts? Is that the right way to think about the ramp? Can you just put a finer point on that for us, if you don't mind?

York Ragen

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

Yes. I mean, we didn't give necessarily seasonal guidance on the 125 to 150 megawatt hours deployed. But I think with Q2 that we had originally expected that to grow pretty evenly throughout the year. When we originally guided, I think with the impact of the pandemic, I think the Q2 rates will have slow, maybe not as significantly as you just raveled off there, but then it should grow nicely off of Q2 into Q3 and then sequentially into Q4. So didn't necessarily provide that level of detail in terms of quarter-to-quarter seasonality.

Operator

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Jeff Hammond with KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Jeff Hammond

Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Just on, I guess on solar, just want to understand a little bit better like, channel sale versus sell-through? And maybe just talk about as you kind of ramp this business up, any more progress on solar dealer distribution partners and feedback from your traditional channel?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Yes. So I mean, we've got, we kind of alluded to it on the call. We've got pretty good visibility there already. A lot of preordering in that business early on here in the first quarter. So we have a decent backlog that we're working from. We're shifting our attention to continuing to add customers, which I think is the other part of your question, Jeff, in terms of acceptance of the product, it is interesting. Our initial thesis there was that we take these 6,500 residential dealers, we'd introduce these new products, and they would grab that and they'd run forward with it and promote it. The truth of the matter is, some of them have, some of them that are a little bit more out in the vanguard, some of them were already involved with solar. So that's a much easier connection point. But largely, that's going to take more time. I think it's the takeaway there for us. But where we are getting success and we're having where we're seeing some really good acceptance is in the solar installed channel themselves, both the national installers, the national companies as well as the independent channel and the distribution partners that they use. So the wholesale channels that feed the equipment into those independent dealers, we've had a lot of really good success early on here, introducing the product to them. Obviously, we're out there talking to them how we're driving leads in this space, we're driving awareness around solar plus storage, the importance and driving those attachment rates. And that gives we get some really high marks from these guys because, that perennial challenge in the solar market has been customer acquisition costs. And obviously, anybody coming into the space, writing large checks, and we're writing large checks right now to drive not only our own brand awareness in space, but also market awareness overall and penetration rates. Anybody doing that, to help them with their customer act costs and keep those lower is that goes a long way. So we're getting a lot of great pickup there. The interesting thing, the part of our thesis that we didn't have, right, aside from the dealers, not maybe picking it up as quickly, but these solar dealers are very interested in home standby. We've had many of them are adding home standby. So we're picking up new points of life there that we really hadn't attributed much business to kind of in how we had modeled our entrance into clean energy. So it's explaining out maybe a little differently than we had thought. But I would say that, on a net-net basis, it's playing out more favorably, as obviously, as our numbers would indicate, more favorably than what we had laid out back in the Investor Day, back in September.

Jeff Hammond

Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets.

And then California, certainly, the number is pretty eye-popping on like the growth rate in 1Q and IHC growth rates. Can you just I'm just trying to maybe frame size of California in 2019, kind of how you're thinking about the longer-term goal? And what those growth rates look like into the second half, when you kind of hit the, I guess, the little bit tougher comps?

York Ragen

Analyst · KeyBanc Capital Markets.

Yes. I mean, we haven't specifically broke out our sales into California across the company. I know we talked over the last maybe couple of quarters. 2018, it was a very small number. We added roughly a little over $75 million last year to California. And we expect to add a sizable amount to California into 2020, sounds maybe something similar. And that will continue we expect that to continue to grow into 2021 and 2022, especially as we build out distribution. We quoted, we have over 400 dealers now in California. We're going to continue to add dealers. And so it's a nice growth opportunity for us. And the numbers I'm quoting are just power generation. That does not include any clean energy. I just want to be clear.

Operator

Operator

And your next question comes from the line of Ross Gilardi with Bank of America.

Ross Gilardi

Analyst · Bank of America.

Aaron, I'd love to just get your read on the California regulatory environment right now, always a joy to analyze that. But what do you think? I mean, is PG&E really going to shut the power off on California in the fall, as COVID comes back and people are stuck working from home. It would be major economic implications for California, if they do that, potentially outside of California. So like, what kind of discussions are happening? I mean, are there potentially any subsidies for the consumers to install generators? Is there any opportunity to form some type of distribution agreement with the public utilities or partnership in preparation for wildfire season? Because this just seems doubly dangerous going into the second half of the year, not only the human aspect of it, as was the case last year, but just economically, it would be devastating, if they continue to kind of carry forward with the same tactics?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst · Bank of America.

Yes. It's a fascinating situation out there, Ross. In terms of the regulatory environment, I won't comment on the beaches being closed out there, but I think that was announced this morning. But as it relates to power, so there's two school of thought, right? I mean you have, okay all these people sheltering-in-place and so you can't possibly shut the power off on them because of that. But actually, every conversation we've had is, no. It's just the opposite. You have all these people sheltering-in-place, therefore, they're in their homes. So, you have to prevent wildfires. I mean the catastrophic effects in terms of the human toll on that should there be a fire, with everybody in their homes, could be much greater than the economic effect. And it's arguable, there's already going to be an economic effect from COVID-19. So, I don't think any of us can avoid that at this point. So, I think that what the schools of thought there are, and in particular, PG&E would tell you, and we've heard them say this, that they believe the power shutoffs last year were largely responsible for the reduction in wildfires. They've equated a high correlation to that. So, and in terms of their operating process going forward, they feel that they're going to use that absolutely as a tool whereas in the past, they haven't, right? So and again, there's a lot of things that go into that decision. Now as far as other partnerships and things, we were actually I commend PG&E. They were trying to do the right thing. In terms of grid support projects, we were actually bidding in our C&I business on some large grid support projects out there with natural gas gens and other products. But regulators have made it almost…

Ross Gilardi

Analyst · Bank of America.

And then any color you can provide on the margin sensitivity to the clean energy ramp in terms of fixed versus variable? Or originally, I think you had baked in EBITDA breakeven by the end of the year. Are you taking your guide down as pad, but like any clarity on the revenue breakeven point? Or just at what point does it become a bigger drag from margins, if it doesn't ramp as quickly as you expect in the second half of the year?

York Ragen

Analyst · Bank of America.

Yes, it's good. I think previously, we talked yes, we expect to break even with those products for the year. We still expect to breakeven even, even with the slight pullback that we had, we just moderated some of the OpEx around that. But I think internally, we're still expecting to break even for those products for the year with start-up losses in the first half, profitability in the second half. I think for the year overall, roughly maybe about a 1.5% drag on overall corporate margins as a result of that business. But obviously, the exit EBITDA margins, leaving the year should look good and they should continue to improve into 2021 then.

Operator

Operator

And your next question comes from the line to Phil Shen with Roth Capital Partners.

Phil Shen

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

First one is first one is on the visibility that you have. You talked about, Aaron, having great visibility into your key leading indicators and stats. Can you share how the timing between the closing of a sale and activation/installation has changed? What was the pre-COVID and what do you think it could be now? You talked about also maybe 50% of the building departments out there doing virtual permits. Will that suggesting half are actually not doing those virtual permits and resulting in delays. So, I can imagine there's been an extension of that installation time. Just want to get a feel for the degree? And then how long do you guys expect this to take to normalize?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

Yes. No, it's a great question, Phil. And I'm actually looking at a chart that we pulled together on that very point because it's, again, it's another kind of data point we watch very closely. Because if you pull out the number of days or if you extend the number of days, that can certainly result in creating a potential air pocket at some point in the future for purchases as you work backwards from the install to when the dealer needs to buy the equipment. But so there's a lot of different time fences involved here. But I think what I'll largely say rather than we haven't given a ton of granularity around this historically, but I will say this, it has gotten longer, kind of pre-COVID, the levels were kind of thinking that 60- to 70-day range between VHC and the activation. So, the quote and the install, right, if you want to use more kind of different nomenclature there. But and so what that that peaked at around 90 days? So, kind of at the height of, kind of as we got through the month of March, so it went up considerably. That's a 40% or 50% increase in the amount of time. But more recently, in the last few weeks, we've seen it come down back into almost normal levels, which is interesting. So, now the comment about 50% of inspectors doing virtual permitting. Remember, there are a lot of places around the country where the permitting is still going on. So, you can still walk up to your local township and get a permit. Or were they just they haven't shut down as hard as maybe areas of like the Northeast or parts of the country where, clearly, that's been more challenging. In the Midwest, largely here, you can still go get a permit. You can't get a haircut, but you can get a permit for building project. But it is interesting, and it is something we watch very closely, and we'll continue to watch that very closely.

Phil Shen

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

Great. And so just as a follow-up to that. And I know you haven't provided specific guidance, but York, in any way that you guys can qualitatively talk about the cadence between Q2 home standby sales versus Q3 from the modeling standpoint, I think that could be very helpful? Because if your I can imagine Q3 should be up relative to Q2. If you're double year-over-year in terms of VHCs and your close ratios are basically the same, which is what I think you said? And if this...

York Ragen

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

Yes, I think, again, a base case guidance doesn't assume a major power outage. I think for the year, I said home standbys would be up slightly, at least that's what we modeled. That's what's embedded into our residential guidance. And the second half would look like that in terms of that guidance. So, that's how that's again, that was I mean, there's a lot of uncertainty with COVID-19. We don't know exactly the impact on consumer spending. So...

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

But the category in general has a fair amount of seasonality to it. So, it's definitely...

York Ragen

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

Yes, somewhere year-over-year growth, yes.

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

Yes, yes. But definitely, in terms of pacing, though, you're kind of going through...

York Ragen

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

But when you connect the I see that have doubled, overall it's showing up slightly. There's a bit of a disconnect there partly. Maybe we're taking a conservative view on the impact on consumer spending related with COVID-19. But we also know that tends to be coupled from economic environments when power outages actually happen. So...

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst · Roth Capital Partners.

I would just add one last comment there. Typically, VHCs, we would see an increase as we go into the season. So, that increase is obviously happening earlier than normal. So, the extent of the -- you have to kind of put it in perspective, the in-season, out-of-season. So there is some of that, that you have to do as well. But yes, we get the question, and it's we think we're modeling it appropriately. We got a lot of experience doing this. And it's hard to say what the consumer impact is going to be in the back half. So we're kind of trying to model some of that as well. There's a little bit of the air that's going to come out of the balloon certainly around res investment, but that's a good question, Phil.

Operator

Operator

Your final question comes from the line of Joseph Osha with JMP Group.

Joseph Osha

Analyst

Well, for starters, as a resident of California, I can tell you that the state will reliably choose the most economically disastrous path. So just wanted to clarify that. two questions for you. First, I'm wondering whether some of this incremental supply chain looseness you've talked about has turned up in your cell supply situation? Are you finding that you're able to get enough lithium-ion supply for your storage business?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst

Yes, Joe, that hasn't been a challenge at this point. Now we are actively looking to expand our supply base on all of our major components, again, kind of coming from a position of two start-up companies that largely had a pretty nascent supply chain, the Pika organization was buying through distribution, as an example, for that lithium product. And so we've gone direct to the manufacturer, obviously, is a way to not only shorten the supply chain, but making more cost effective. But a lot it really depends in lithium, and as you well know, a lot of it really depends on EV demand. So where does EV demand go here? And I think largely, 2020 could be a more challenging space for EV demand in parts of the world, and particularly like China than what was originally forecasted. So that should certainly loosen up supply for cells. But that being said, we are still looking at continuing to expand our base of supply for those.

Joseph Osha

Analyst

And then secondly, this is kind of an odd question. I'm wondering if and as you point out, your storage gives you sort of near-term resilience. But and that's not going to get you through 72 hours of PG&E shutting down. But there are some other cases to be made for storage in terms of time shifting, and time of using and so forth. Have you seen anyone look at a solar plus storage plus backup power configuration? Is that happening?

Aaron Jagdfeld

Analyst

Yes. That is a that's a request that we hear repeatedly from our customers at this point. And we believe we're in a great position to be able to solve that. And that's something that as we go forward, there's a really good case to be made for the durability of a system like that. And in fact, with natural gas prices where they're at, in terms of just as low as they are, the ability to produce your own power on-site for the purposes of either charging your storage system or perhaps, using some of that power to extend the resilience, again, either as a battery charging system and/or as a substitute for the battery itself, if the battery gets fully depleted. Now we believe there are some use cases there. And I think that's a product that you will see in the marketplace here, in short order.

Operator

Operator

And I will now turn the call back over to Mike Harris for closing remarks.

Mike Harris

Analyst

We want to thank everyone for joining us this morning. We look forward to discussing our second quarter earnings results with you in late July. Thank you again, and good bye.

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.