Thomas Philip Majewski
Chief Executive Officer
Buying bad credits and or just burning par through selling things, I want to say indiscriminately, but selling things You know? Destroying value within the portfolio broadly. And it is typically measured on either a par burn basis, a decline in the par of the portfolio, which means, you know, they bought something at a 100 and sold it at 80 and did not have a replacement asset to buy at 80. And or the market value of the portfolio declining very, very quickly. Quicker than average with some, you know, credit misses. And what we have seen over time and although in my experience, it is been a little more pronounced this time Like, when we look through COVID, some collateral managers, you know, actually really outperformed and some missed. Different reasons why, and we always try and learn from them. And while we are generally very long term in our relationships with collateral managers, If we see underperformance, you know, for persistent underperformance or a change in personnel or things like that. We are happy to-- you know, we are not happy. We-- we it makes sense to exit, and we are very willing to exit when we need to on particular names. So it is the totality. I, you know, in the-- to be critical of ourselves, I wish we found those sooner. But we have actually hired at the beginning of the year a full time quant who is dedicated on our CLO equity investing team. And yeah, we are we are continuing to I would say, look for early signals to be able to both exit names sooner and then similarly to get into names quicker that seem to have rebounded. We always have a watch list a positive watch list of names we are thinking about adding as well. And when we pull the trigger on that and the diligence we do, looking for both qualitative measures but also quantitative measures to help with both of those. But at the end of the day, it is been, you know, it is been a tough market for CLO equity. If you say, say, the market was down 15% last year using Nomura's numbers, Some pieces of CLO were down 30% total return, and others were flattish, you know, give or take. So it is it is obviously exiting those that are down, 1 of the things we have talked about you know, are we just selling at the low and the worst is behind us? In our opinion, the in our opinion, the trends have a funny habit of continuing. And, you know, you could say, well, we have already taken the pain. Let's hold on to it. What we are what we are thinking what we what we generally see in the CLO market is that decay continues, unfortunately. Thanks.