Earnings Labs

Diana Shipping Inc. (DSX)

Q1 2012 Earnings Call· Thu, May 3, 2012

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Greetings and welcome to Diana Shipping Inc.’s First Quarter 2012 Conference Call and Webcast. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. A brief question-and-answer session will follow the formal presentation. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Mr. Edward Nebb, Investor Relations Advisor for Diana Shipping. Thank you. Mr. Nebb, you may begin.

Edward Nebb

Management

Thank you, Louis. Hello, everyone and welcome to the Diana Shipping Incorporated 2012 first quarter conference call. The members of the Diana Shipping management team who are with us today include Mr. Simeon Palios, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Anastassis Margaronis, President; Mr. Andreas Michalopoulos, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Ioannis Zafirakis, Executive Vice-President and Secretary; and Ms. Maria Dede, Chief Accounting Officer. Before management begins their remarks, let me briefly summarize the Safe Harbor notice, which is attached as part of the new release. Certain statements made during this conference call, which are not statements of historical fact are forward-looking statements and made pursuant to the Safe Harbor Provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act. Forward-looking statements are based on assumptions, expectations, projections, intentions and beliefs as the future events that may or may not prove to be accurate. For a description of the risks, uncertainties, and other factors that may cause future results to differ from what is expressed in the forward-looking statements, please refer to the company’s filings with the SEC. And with that, let me turn the call over to Mr. Simeon Palios, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Greetings, good morning and thank you for joining us today. During the 2012 first quarter Diana Shipping, Inc. continue to publish an elaborate revenue stream operated in a profitable manner and maintain a surely balancing at volatile industry conditions. We also made significant progress in our future expansion strategy, which is intended to position the company for future profitable growth. In February 2012, we took delivery of the newly built Los Angeles, a Newcastlemax Dry Bulk Carrier that was contracted in 2010. Today, we also announced the delivery of Melia, a Panamax dry bulk carrier. In addition, we recently announced agreement to purchase two Ice Class Panamax dry bulk carriers; the delivery is anticipated during the fourth quarter of 2013. In total we have three vessels that are anticipated to be delivered in 2012, 2013. The two Ice Class Panamax vessels as I just noted as well as a Newcastlemax new building that is anticipated to be delivered in few days. With these additions, the size of our fleet will increase to 30 vessels. The fleet is increasingly diversified including vessels scheduled for future delivery we will have 17 Panamax’s, one Post-Panamax, 8 Capesize and 2 Newcastlemax and 2 new building Ice Class Panamax vessels. Considering that we own 21 vessels at the time we announced our fleet investment strategy in 2008, these represents a very substantial progress in the expansion and diversification of our fleet. We’ll continue to manage our fleet in a responsible manner that promotes a balance of time-charter maturities and produces a predictable revenue stream. Currently, our fixed revenue days are 89% for 2012. The majority of our vessels are chartered for periods ranging from 2013 to 2015 and beyond. We continue to enjoy excellent relationships with many of the industries strongest and most respected charters.…

Anastassis Stacey Margaronis

Management

Thank you, Simeon and we do welcome all the participants to this quarterly conference call. The first quarter of 2012 was quite depressing for owners of bulk carriers and one they would soon forget and hope will never return. The Baltic Dry Index surpasses a year of 1,624 and stood at a mere 934 during the last operating day of the quarter. The Baltic Panamax Index lose from 1,619 to 1,061 ending the quarter and the Baltic Cape Index were worse starting the year at 2,965 and finishing the quarter at 1,412. The second quarter Diana cargoes had given their owners some good news at least on the Panamax front. Both the Panamax Index moved from 1,051 mentioned above at the end of the quarter to 1,693 at close of business yesterday. Panamax rates have benefited from the encouraging the number of coal and grain pictures. In China, demand for imported thermal coal have surged recently both to a certain extend by long going maintenance to China’s coal dedicated (inaudible) referred to be low. In the short-term, currently [composites] (inaudible) Panamax cause in the Atlantic, this could take some time to balance out. The slight increase coal being shift from the US Gulf and the U.S. East Coast. For the past few weeks, currently I’ve have also noted that coal business out of Indonesia and Australia have helped support the rates of Panamax and Supramax. There few are ever impact their record high new business and delivery this year more about that later on. We put a cap on any further rate increases and then strength could be Salt Lake. Let’s turn to microeconomic considerations first. (inaudible) broker to a growth coming at 3% to 10% for the quarter of 2011 and they are hopeful that this rate of growth…

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

Thank you, Stacey and good morning. I am pleased to be discussing today with you Diana’s operational results for the first quarter of 2012. Net income for Diana Shipping Inc. for the first quarter of 2012 amounted to $20 million and EPS was $0.25. Time-charter revenues decreased to $57.6 million compared to $69.4 million in 2011. The decrease is attributable to decreased average time-charter rate that we achieved to our vessels during the period compared with the first quarter 2011. This decrease was partially offset by revenue derived from the vessels Arethusa, Leto and Los Angeles delivered in July 2011, January and February 2012 respectively. Ownership days were 2,313 for the first quarter of 2012 compared to 2,106 in the same period of 2011. Fleet utilization was 99.8% in the first quarter of 2012, the same as in 2011. The daily time-charter equivalent rate for the first quarter 2012 was $24,276 compared to $31,592 for 2011. Other revenues for the first quarter of 2012 amounted to $0.6 million and consist of revenue derived from the management and administrative agreements between Diana Shipping Services SA and Diana Containerships Inc. [Voyage] expenses were $2.2 million for the quarter. Operating expenses amounted to $14.7 million and increased by 19%. About 10% of this increase is attributable to the addition of new vessels in the fleet, which resulted in the ownership days to increase. Additionally, operating expenses increased due to increased crew costs, but mainly increased, spares and repairs and (inaudible) have set by decreased average insurance costs. Daily operating expenses were $6,337 for the first quarter of 2012 compared to $5,873 in 2011, representing 3.8%. Depreciation and amortization of deferred project amounted to $14.6 million. general and administrative expenses decreased by $0.4 million or 6% for the first quarter 2012 to $6.1 million compared to $6.5 million in 2011. A decrease was mainly attributable to the (inaudible) in January 18, 2011 and also decreased compensation under (inaudible) and legal fees. Interest and finance costs were $1.5 million for the quarter compared to $1.3 million in 2011. This increase is attributable to increased average interest rates during the period and increased average debt. Income from investments in Diana Containerships Inc., will gain from our investments in Diana Containerships Inc. increased $2.3 million compared to $0.1 million for the same period in 2011. This increase was due to the increase in our ownership percentage of Diana Containerships Inc., which as of March 31, 2012 was 14.35% compared to 10.9% at March 31, 2011 and also due to the increase (inaudible) Diana Containership Inc. in the first quarter of 2012 as in quarter 2011. Thank you for your attention. We will be pleased now to respond to your questions, and I will turn the call to the operator, who will instruct you about the procedure for asking questions.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Justin Yagerman of Deutsche Bank. Please proceed with your question.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Good day, everyone. It’s Josh standing upon for Justin.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Hi, Josh.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Stacey, I just want to maybe start off with, what’s the macro thought? Appreciate you updated in times, if you guys are still I guess, negative over the next year. Does that mean you see further downside for asset prices?

Anastassis Stacey Margaronis

Management

Yes. We do as a matter of fact and we’re witnessing this now as we speak nearly across all ranges. If we strengthen the Panamax sector continuously we might see a pause there in the original values, but I think Mr. Palios has been monitoring asset values on a daily basis. We’ll confirm that ships that he’s looking up now on behalf of the company are being offered per say at lower prices than we were looking at during the first quarter.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Let me help (inaudible), Justin is that there are more buyers around and especially more Greeks, some Chinese and a few Taiwanese and that concludes the (inaudible) buyers. But there are a need for more active (inaudible) and the price is a little bit lower than three months ago.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Are those buyers well capitalized, I mean they have the firepower to reach our purchasing asset and maybe bank support?

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Yes, but not on a continuous basis I think, they may buy the aggression, but there are a few around.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Got it. And I guess on that note, we saw the new building acquisitions and the one Panamax acquisition, I guess you guys have historically counted one, I guess few purchases per quarter, should we expect something coming in the next couple of months.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Yes, indeed, (inaudible).

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Got it. And I guess with regard to how you plan to fund finance those acquisitions, are you still looking maybe 40% to 50% debt?

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Yes, that’s correct something like that. We have no problem in financing industries. Not at all.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Just one last question before I turn it over, I guess on the Houston, can you maybe provide any commentary around that or also whether there are any other kind of all the issue?

Ioannis Zafirakis

Analyst

This is Ioannis. When we have something to report we are doing that immediately, and therefore having not heard from about anything there is nothing much to report, but as if you look at the numbers that we have just starting to see what we’ve done with the situation of moderate system.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Got it. Thanks for your time.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Thank you.

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

You’re welcome.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Michael Webber with Wells Fargo. Please proceed with your question. Michael Webber – Wells Fargo Securities, LLC: Hey good morning guys, how are you?

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Fine.

Anastassis Stacey Margaronis

Management

Fine.

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

Fine, how are you, Mike. Michael Webber – Wells Fargo Securities, LLC: Good, I wanted to jump back on to the gains charter. I know you guys haven’t put out an announcement yet, but there is not a lot of detail cash flow information provided either, so I think are they paying you still? I know you filed and I think it was, in Q4 they had to pay you 90 days, is that cash flow actually coming in the door?

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

I have to repeat the question, the answer as I gave earlier, look at the numbers (inaudible) we’re not paying in to (inaudible) from us. Michael Webber – Wells Fargo Securities, LLC: Okay, so from an accounting perspective, you wouldn’t mean to start striping at out of your – at what point would you start striping out of your revenue?

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

(inaudible) the number was the bigger one, the one that we have to file a press release for, maybe the number now is zero, but there is nothing for us to report. Michael Webber – Wells Fargo Securities, LLC: Okay, all right. That’s helpful and maybe we can follow-up offline. I wanted to touch on buybacks, can you guys – you had the authorization in place and it seems like you guys have be enabled it a little bit last quarter and then there is a whole lot on this quarter, you guys still kind of trading and do you think proximity to your NAV, discount you need your NAV to really step in and start buying shares? And maybe you can talk a little bit about the value proposition that you could see there versus what you’re seeing in the market right now from your ship obviously you’re spending more money on steel and then stock at this point?

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

There is a lot of specific discount that we are waiting to see. It all depends on the current environment that is down of course to the NAV and where we stand on the cycle for us to decide to step in. Well, we think we have explained the reasoning behind of share buyback and when we are there to (inaudible). In few words we are there to buy some of our stock back when we feel that we are grossly under value. Michael Webber – Wells Fargo Securities, LLC: Great, okay that’s helpful. (inaudible) quick modeling questions, and Andreas maybe there’s a question for you, given the significant cash you’re guys are running in, can you talk a little bit about what instruments are there in, and maybe what banking system and there’s a little bit of color in terms how you guys are actually using cash flow benefiting?

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

The cash is relatively used to acquire vessels, and that’s why, you see it in cash and cash equivalents, that means that we haven’t seen no currency stock rate forward, because there is bank. we of course, don’t put our legs into the same baskets, try to be diversifying between surplus banks, the U.S., European or even sometimes bank as well. So we guess – that’s the way we manage our cash, nothing currency cash forward, and that’s it. We have gone, we do sometimes because we have some need for euros in a very small amount some dual currency deposits, but that’s the accounts we have to get. Michael Webber – Wells Fargo Securities, LLC: Fair enough. And is it fair to say that money kind of evenly progressing in the U.S. and Europe or is it more heavily allocated with your spends?

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

No. I think – even these spreads maybe not evenly spread every time, because we changed the mix, and we are actually not to have cash increasing every quarter. but we work also among you with the banks that we have degradation ship with due to a kind of... Michael Webber – Wells Fargo Securities, LLC: Fair enough, that’s helpful. Andreas, also there’s one more, I’ll turn it over. Your G&A picked down a little bit in the quarter, I guess sequentially. Can you guys maybe provide a little bit of guidance for the remainder of the year and what do you think you’re going to come out?

Anastassis Stacey Margaronis

Management

Not really guidance. I can tell you that around those levels it hit down a little bit, I think around those levels you start to see that we are close to our (inaudible) as we are for like (inaudible) and – we are search as that one of the reasons we went down is that (inaudible) has many traveling during the first quarter. I think for the conference is coming up in the quarter be it next month or month after we will have some time (inaudible). Having this levels are the levels to cut along so we (inaudible) that you shall see during the quarter. Michael Webber – Wells Fargo Securities, LLC: That’s fair enough. There is one more and then turn over. Stacey you spoke some time earlier kind of going through obviously your market update and yes you answered some questions on growth. Clearly the acquisition base has kicked up pretty hard in the first quarter. If we started looking kind of beyond acquisition I guess, you guys were saying you’re confirming cash and nothing out of distribution because you want to spend on cheap assets. What do you look for to kind of change that methodology or change that process. I think, well you might be more comfortable actually paying a dividend again. I know we’re not probably close to that point, is it pure asset depreciation. I mean, are you starting to see assets move up 10% and 20% in the time before guys start thinking and you’re going to start redistributing cash your shareholders, or just how do you think about that?

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

This is, Andreas again. We have to see the – our industry, the business cycle of us is changing and moving towards the upper part of the cycle. We have to go through the bulk carriers and start moving upwards. Usually, there is a change in the start delays at first, then the psychology changes positively and then you have the acted moving upwards, but as Stacy said earlier, we won’t see that for the near future and this beginning of moving upwards, we expected to be at the end of 2013 in the best case scenario. Michael Webber – Wells Fargo Securities, LLC: Okay. All right that’s very helpful thanks guys, I appreciate the time.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Welcome.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Fotis Giannakoulis from Morgan Stanley. Please proceed with your question.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst · your question.

[Ole Slorer] from Morgan Stanley on behalf of Fotis Giannakoulis.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Hi, Ole.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst · your question.

Thank you. (inaudible) first quarter, you guys seemed Panamax rates move higher, how much of this increase is due to the grain season in South America and what is our outlook when it’s over?

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Well, I think you’re right to assume that this is for the grain season and do not expect a substantial change to the rates of Panamaxes.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst · your question.

Okay, my next question is how do you see Capesize market developing and why would rates I’ve seen so low, how many ships that you estimate that could order supply?

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

Each station has zero number, which we are expecting to come from the [year] and there is a possibility that these vessels were Simeon (inaudible) not be financed because finance is very scarce, and there will be substantial, how to product that the age of the cape fleet is not very old. I think there is a slight problem and we may see values and rates even lower for the Capes.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst · your question.

Okay, understood. And as you’re seeing your business prices developing, very recently forecast sales, resales sold for $36.5 million, even the time-charter rates and lack of ordering, where do you see prices go both for Capes and Panamaxes from the regressions we jumped with (inaudible). What kind of terms are now available? Do you see that will into the low prices order?

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Well, the prices directly proportional to (inaudible) canal. The replacement cost has nothing to do with the prices of vessels. The vessel is unable to move cargo then it’s actually and price should be adjusted accordingly. So the replacement cost has no bearing whatsoever. So if it rate down and if you rates at par to the running expenses from the ships then the vessels will be laid up and that is the real bottom. We are not there yet and that’s why we see that vessels are not laid up if you are reaching Panamax, they have $10,000 or $11,000 daily. We are at (inaudible) running expenses, and third the vessel rate will grow and the freight rate will grow. It will be the time charter rate will be the running expense of the ship which is around 5.5 to $6,000 daily.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst · your question.

Okay. And last question. Even the time charter rates, any of your competitors are facing significant cash flows showed some difficulties in repaying their debts, how were the bankruptcies of the company, was that actually willing like durable rates.

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

Well, there is a and in fact there will be a shock to the system that effectively be supply of ships through the world bulk carrier trade, isn’t going to change, except the manner that there will be charters, and it’s going to be affected temporarily, if there is a bankruptcy. so we don’t see the supply demand being affected too much by any bankruptcy, operationally and on the chartering size, there will be distractions, no doubt, some portion out there declarations might be made, charters cancelled by some charters, but the ships will remain there to be chartered and to carry cargo and that’s what found ultimately in the supply demand balance.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst · your question.

Okay, thank you for your time gentlemen. I do appreciate that.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

You’re welcome.

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Erik Stavseth of Arctic Securities. Please proceed with your question. Erik Nikolai Stavseth – Arctic Securities: Good morning, guys. Just a question regarding our new growth, I mean I know you’ve been 34, but all petrol bunks with fuel efficiency eclipsed and again, I mean you noted that the rest of (inaudible) month, which is significantly lower than what other (inaudible) you have in your fleet, consume that stable receipts. However, we’re taking through (inaudible) there will be some increase in (inaudible) engines, but could you show a point of the daily savings number as you would be coming forward?

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

I think there is a slight misunderstanding to what we have said. I think we were referring to balanced positions and (inaudible). And I think that I have given some different thinking of what will be the next (inaudible) consumption of the Panamex. I have a feeling that the crude Panamex is not going to be all that different of what we have been facing today. It will be better, but more substantially. And certainly, if we see alone price drops that will have a different bearing on the whole issue again. I remember several times before we’ve had the same issue of increasing the [speed] and the decreasing the consumption. But at the end it has not improved immensely. So, I think we have all played that game of better efficiency. Erik Nikolai Stavseth – Arctic Securities: Okay. Thank you. I mean there is I’m asking you – I’m trying to mix the number here, so that and I know what those new impact from the (inaudible) I mean you didn’t talk you’re sound quite strongly and this seems to me that several other players are embracing the fuel efficiency of I mean this is represented as I, but this seems to me that you are talking it now that you are falling to efficiency so I was just curious if you see any other players thinking the same as you think.

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

Well, there is a lot of talking in the market from the ship builders and from different other (inaudible), but we have not changed in practice as concrete as some they say that going to improve the efficiency of the system. Erik Nikolai Stavseth – Arctic Securities: Okay, thank you.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Welcome.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Brandon Oglenski of Barclays Capital. Please proceed with your question. Brandon R. Oglenski – Barclays Capital Equity Research: Yeah, good morning and good afternoon every one.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Hello. Brandon R. Oglenski – Barclays Capital Equity Research: I just want to follow-up on Simeon’s comments about the incremental buyers that are entering the marketplace right now, is this just also saying asset prices are whilst we’re going to make a longer term call in the cycle, do you think that’s occurring right now?

Simeon P. Palios

Management

To a certain degree that is indeed the case, and people with the liquidity are taking a long term view, I mean there is no other view you can take today’s rate unless you believe that the recent thing, the Panamax revenues and income is going to be a permanent phenomenon stay with us for the next few quarters, if you don’t or if you doubt that this is the case, then of course you’re buying ships looking at the long-term like to discuss 2015 and beyond.

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

I think you should note also that the spot rates have increased, have not (inaudible) rates, so the (inaudible) Pacific indeed (inaudible) rules for the Panamax’s have increased today at 13,677, but it was not reflected for the period due to accounting for the spot rates, and that’s why we would take the position that it is short-lived due to the grain season. There is another very important (inaudible) at this time as regard to potential purchase sales around the market. Having money in your balance sheet and the ability to be able to buy vessels that they are not going to be a profit making from day one and then they may take longer to start making some profits and begun much easier by strong companies like ours, where those vessels are going to be place in the same balance sheet together without the vessels that they are producing money and their net effect is going to be still a positive number rather than a private ship owner or a (inaudible) on the size and they want to put them at work and start making profit from day one, which is usually the case. And this is how something very important for our shareholders and the U.S. analysts understand and to realize the strong position that Diana Shipping Inc. is today.

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

It’s up-to-date. Brandon R. Oglenski – Barclays Capital Equity Research: No, we definitely understand that but I guess what our concern is that if there is incremental capital entering the marketplace right now and I think you even (inaudible) that maybe 30% to 15% of the order book over the coming years should get canceled or its just never delivered, but if there is cash showing us and I want to get assets at these prices maybe we have we actually see one of the more (inaudible) one this process, I mean how financially stand and how the incremental buyers more of those fund type owners that don’t necessarily have it to the distributors portfolio, or should we be thinking as more of like Diana that’s the incremental buyer right now?

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

When we see the scenario Diana, the portfolio of (inaudible) maturities, gives you the opportunity of not trying to spot the particular moment of entering. you are entering in a period of time, which is substantially big. so you can make some purchases today and after two months, you can make another one and so on. So you are not pinpointing the day, which is the broker day to just into the cycle. you have perhaps two, perhaps three, even three and a half years to play with, and that’s very important (inaudible). let’s take a very (inaudible) gives to (inaudible). If this vessel is big and we rate good. We do see the vessels between 5 and 6 minutes to reply whether he wants to listen or not. They know what the shipping means, but you have two or three or twice, it has to play with, it’s a good advantage of the more specifically average value question of all the incremental buyers, there are few players even private ones that’s having disabilities to sustain a better environment, not too many around. We feel that more are going to be private people and less rather than funds that they’re going to be the incremental buyers that to mention, but there are not a lot of that those around, and their appetite should be confined. Brandon R. Oglenski – Barclays Capital Equity Research: All right. Thank you, okay.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Sal Vitale of Sterne Agee. Please proceed with your question. Sal Vitale – Sterne, Agee: Hi, good afternoon gentlemen.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Good afternoon

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

Hi, good afternoon Sal Vitale – Sterne, Agee: I just have a question regarding the comment earlier about the Chinese shipyards essentially building vessels on speculation to maintain employment. I think I’ll just ask for a few clarifications on that. I guess, the first question is, how long has this been going on. Is it purely anecdotal at this point? Can you provide any detail on the number of vessels for which this (inaudible) has already been cut?

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

The short answer is no. The longer answer is that, we have been growing on since 2011, it is a trend which hasn’t gain huge momentum yet, but had another category of buyer to the question that was made earlier as to, who are the buyers who are buying ships today. And this is a category of buyers that nobody had expected would show up and start contributing to the increasing supplier tonnage over the next few quarters. So, if you got a (inaudible) of ship that’s been come from that category of purchase or a ship owner, but it is not a welcome trend and we hope it will not gain momentum. The buyers are basically people who have the liquidity and take a long-term (inaudible) which are earlier on the market, that leave by historical standards for us today are not and attractive even though they are not particularly cheap and they start investing in the way that have been described earlier on, on tonnage or the second hand (inaudible) sale. All those back to the point where I said earlier, that historically always someone comes up with the money to take delivery of the ship, which appears to be in huge difficulty of the owner finding money to take delivery and finance delivery. Yes there is money around and when the price becomes cheap enough, it should be sold to the person, who have the liquidity. And that is what counts, what counts is one of the ship will be added to the supply side of the chain or not. And regrettably we feel that the risk is more that more ships withdrawing than what we have been assuming will not. The 30% might be lower rather than higher. In other words for 2012, and this 16% for 2013 again might be a lower number than it might actually appear. Sal Vitale – Sterne, Agee: Right, okay. So to what extend are you incorporating this new trend into your forecast of going the bottom is going to be, I think you should have rates 2013, in terms of the bottom.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

(inaudible) Sal Vitale – Sterne, Agee: You can’t call the bottom.

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

We have factor our company (inaudible) that we have eliminated that’s unknown, and that’s the key issue here. To eliminate the frequency of these (inaudible), which is very, we don’t when it’s going to go up or down. We know when is down, for certain, and we know when we it’s up also, but we don’t know when it’s going to take place. And the beauty of Diana Shipping Inc. is that you are moving in the cycle knowing what you’re doing. And at this particular moment we have to increase the capacity of our ships that’s what we are doing at the low cycle of the market. And it is below the regression line. So we are at the stage we can buy now and we have to buy and we are the company (inaudible) that at the end of the period, we find ourselves with approximately 50% financed with bank lending, not with equity finance that with bank lending, and that’s what we are doing. And we will keep on doing it until the market starts picking up. and then other things will take place. we’ll go back again to the capital markets and we will start again being really then (inaudible). Sal Vitale – Sterne, Agee: Okay, that’s very helpful. And then just a follow-up on that, can you give us a sense of the economics currently at the ship dead level, I guess in terms of rebuilding price declines have outpaced the decline of steel prices. I understand what you said earlier that prices are generally based on the supplying demand of ships and not steel prices, but do you think that there’s a floor at some point of, which we are simple, we’ll not take orders at uneconomical prices?

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

Prices for new business have been going down, Mr. Simeon mentioned earlier and you I think noted that the replacement cost and the cost of contraction is not directly related to the retail price of a new building battle, it is a supply and demand and the income screen that (inaudible) ship is going to have in her life time that determine her price. So and I’m not sure we believe that prices for new buildings have more to grow on to downsize and the same holds for the second hand ship. Now if in the process, the cost of building ships actually goes down as well full year accounting that the suppliers of the machineries and the steel as well as labor costs are going to determine in their negotiations with each individual shipyard, but the fact that they will be able to sell the ships highly is going to – determine by supply and demand and the yards don’t have much influence over that. Sal Vitale – Sterne, Agee: Okay, thank you very much.

Andreas Michalopoulos

Management

You’re welcome.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

There are no further questions at this time. I’d like to hand the floor back over to management for closing comments.

Simeon P. Palios

Management

Thank you again for your interest in and support of Diana Shipping. We look forward to speaking with you in the months ahead. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

This concludes today’s teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.