Hello, everyone. And welcome to Viant’s Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. My name is Catherine, and I will be your operator today. Before I hand the call over to Viant’s leadership team, I’d like to go over just a few housekeeping notes for the program. As a reminder, this webinar is being recorded. After the speakers’ remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. If you plan to ask a question, please ensure you set your Zoom name to display your full name and firm. If you’d like to ask a question during the time, please use the raise hand function located at the bottom of your screen. Thank you for your attendance today. And I will now turn the call over to Ben Tapper with Viant Technology.

Thank you, Catherine. Good afternoon. And welcome to Viant Technology’s second quarter 2023 earnings conference call. On the call today are Tim Vanderhook, Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer; Chris Vanderhook, Co-Founder and Chief Operating Officer; and Larry Madden, Chief Financial Officer. I’d like to remind you that we will make forward-looking statements on our call today, including our guidance for Q3 2023 and our platform development initiatives that are based on assumptions and subject to future events, risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected. These forward-looking statements speak only as of today and we undertake no obligation to update or revise these statements, except as required by law. For more information about these factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from forward-looking statements and our entire Safe Harbor statement, please refer to the news release issued today, as well as the risks and uncertainties described in our quarterly report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended June 30, 2023, under the heading Risk Factors on -- and other filings with the SEC. During today’s call, we will also present both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. Additional disclosures regarding these non-GAAP measures, including a reconciliation of non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures are included in the news release issued today, which has been posted on the Investor Relations page of the company’s website and in our filings with the SEC. I would now like to turn the call over to Tim Vanderhook, Chief Executive Officer of Viant. Tim?

Thanks, Ben, and thanks, everyone, for joining us today. I’m excited to share that we had a great second quarter, as we built on our momentum through the first quarter amid an improving macro environment. We significantly exceeded our guidance range on both revenue and adjusted EBITDA. The increasing adoption rates of our household ID, advanced reporting and data platform products drove our outperformance in the quarter as customers look for smarter and more efficient ways to deliver their ad campaigns. At the same time, leveraging our internally developed AI drove our own productivity. As we look into the rest of the year and throughout 2024, we see a number of tailwinds accelerating our growth; first, the continued application of artificial intelligence; second is Google’s deletion of cookies in 2024; and third, the ongoing transition of $60 billion of linear television moving into Connected TV. I want to share a bit more on each of these areas and provide more clarity on how we see them driving our growth and profitability. The promise of artificial intelligence is not really new for the ad tech industry. At Viant, we’re working aggressively toward our vision of building an autonomous ad platform. Similar to the way the automotive industry has its sight set on self-driving cars to boost the number of vehicles sold per year, we believe an autonomous ad platform that leverages AI to help advertisers achieve superior campaign performance will grow our total addressable market. Our goal is to leverage AI to make the programmatic ad opportunity available to millions of small and midsized businesses by making it simple for them to reach new customers and grow their businesses. We envision AI as the key to scaling our customer count from the hundreds into the millions and unlike autonomous vehicles, our…

Thanks, Tim. Q2 was another strong quarter of wins across our client base, with particularly strong results within the mid-market, where we believe our efficiency, attribution and measurement capabilities, along with our unrivaled customer support have made us a go-to choice for marketers whose objective is maximizing their return on ad spend. In the past, I’ve discussed crucial elements that differentiate the Viant platform and make us such a formidable solution in the mid-market. First and foremost, you must offer the best product, which means the lowest CPM to deliver the best return on ad spend. Second, you must demonstrate superior performance in the form of comprehensive measurement and reporting. And finally, you have to provide the support infrastructure to ensure the customer experience is seamless. With more than 14,000 ad agencies in the U.S. alone, the mid-market is a large and dynamic marketplace and one in which we are particularly well suited to win. In much the same way, mid-market agencies have become attractive choices for brands looking to establish themselves in innovative and creative ways, so too are their preferred tech partners. In this way, Viant is working with these mid-market agencies and brands to break free from a tired paradigm of one-size-fits-all platforms by offering industry-leading tools, approaches and service. The benefits of the self-service programmatic model are well known. But at Viant, we specialize in multiple pathways to get our clients up to speed on our platform. Our intuitive user interface and focus on automation further enhances that ramp-up, while our unique data tools enable targeting, forecasting, reporting, and ultimately, visibility that is largely unavailable anywhere else. I want to talk a little bit more about two specific areas of our DSP that truly differentiate us and each in their own right are vital to the…

Thanks, Chris. Before I begin, I’d like to remind everyone that we have posted a presentation to our Investor Relations website that includes supplemental financial information to accompany today’s call. As Tim mentioned, we successfully capitalized on our first quarter momentum, exceeding our revenue and adjusted EBITDA guidance for Q2 and achieving the high end of our guidance for contribution ex-TAC. Revenue for the quarter was $57.2 million, an increase of 12% versus the prior year period, 37% higher than Q1 and exceeding the high end of our guidance. Contribution ex-TAC for the quarter was $33.7 million, an increase of 6% versus the prior year period, 20% higher than Q1 and at the high end of our guidance. We continue to see improving signs with regards to ad spend as evidenced by Q2 revenue and contribution ex-TAC growth rates accelerating from Q1 levels. We expect this encouraging trend to persist and strengthen throughout the second half of the year. In terms of customer verticals, we saw a strong rebound across our retail and consumer goods verticals, with both delivering solid double-digit growth in the quarter, spending across our travel, online gambling and automotive verticals also remained strong. In terms of channels, we saw a robust growth in CTV in the quarter, driven in part by the promising outcomes of our Direct Access Program. Additionally, our customers continue to positively respond to our unique ability to deliver highly targeted messaging at the household level in this cookieless environment. In the second quarter, CTV accounted for over one-third of total advertisers spend on our platform. From a format perspective, video, encompassing both CTV and mobile video, accounted for more than half the spend on our platform and had strong growth in the quarter. Streaming audio though still in its early stages, also…

[Operator Instructions] First, I would like to call upon Maria Ripps from Canaccord. Maria, you can now begin.

All right. Thanks so much for taking my questions. Can you hear me okay?

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. Thanks so much. Could you maybe touch on how sort of the macro environment progressed throughout Q2 and so far in Q3 relative to your expectations? And were better-than-expected results more of a function of strong -- maybe stronger broader macro environment or you’ve seen some signs that sort of suggesting that all the investments in the platform are enabling you to take market share?

Yeah. Larry, you want to take the first one.

Yeah. I mean, I think, the key here is and we said this last quarter, it’s truly stabilized coming out of January, really the second half of last year into January, there was much more uncertainty and really since that point, we have seen a stabilization across the Board. Q2 grew faster than Q1. We expect that trend to continue in Q3. Part of that in Q3 at least is easier comps given that we were impacted last Q3 and Q4 by the macro challenges. But we are also winning a larger share of our customer budget. So it’s really two-fold in terms of the acceleration of growth rates.

On the…

We’re not assuming that the economy is going to improve in Q3. We’re assuming it remains stable as it is today.

And on the second question, I do believe we’re gaining market share in the mid-market product is performing very, very nicely, our team is executing very well and we offer what they need, which is the household ID, the data platform, the level of analytics that the holdcos have to offer their customers. So I do believe it was macroeconomic improving somewhat, but I also believe that we are gaining market share in that mid-market area.

Got it.

I would add one other point to that is, where we’re seeing the improvement in areas like retail and CPG, which had been down for a couple of quarters, that came back nicely in Q2…

Okay.

That’s more of a macro development.

Got it. That’s very helpful. And then how much of incremental upside do you think it’s reasonable to expect as a result of with the 3P [ph] cookie deletion next year and do you think most marketers are sort of prepared for this transition at this point?

I would say that most marketers are not prepared for the transition. They continue to operate with the current platforms that utilize cookies until they don’t work anymore. There’s no point to make a change until they do. In terms of how to size the upside opportunity, I -- my personal opinion towards it is that it’s an enormous wall of money that’s currently being spent that needs to get replatformed into platforms that operate in this new world of consumer privacy-friendly or a lack of identifiers in the old ways. So to me, a huge wall of cash that will be replatformed. Our platform has been out for multiple years now being tested, poked, prodded, questioned and yet it continues to deliver results that marketers are looking for in these environments and so I think we’re very well positioned as that shift away from cookie ovens.

And I think the larger one, just in terms of the market, Maria, if you look back to Apple’s changes with the IDFA, you saw the impact that that had on Meta and Snap immediately. A few quarters later, you saw that hit even YouTube. Most people aren’t focused on what’s happening in 2024 here when Google deletes the cookie. They’ve been somewhat muted around the Google’s mobile ad ID, but the same exact thing is going to happen. So we not only expect it to hit open web players that are completely cookie-based. We think that will be a beneficiary of that. But we also believe that this is going to hit Meta, it’s going to hit Snap, Google, all these other walled gardens that more money is still set to come out of those.

Yeah. Our estimate is Apple’s iOS was about a third of the ad spend. That’s how we -- our best guess on social platforms like that. The Google change should have twice the size impact on those businesses. So it will be a tough challenge for them.

Got it. That’s very helpful. Thank you so much for the color.

Thank you. Next up we have Laura Martin from Needham.

Hi, guys. I’ll ask two. The first one, I’m very curious that your third leg was the $60 billion moving from linear TV to connected television and I think it’s great you guys are doing the direct access. My question to you is, have you really gotten any inclination that advertisers on linear are willing to substitute content-based buying and targeting with audience-based buying and targeting, which is required if they’re really going to move money into the open Internet.

I would say my answer is yes. I think if that answer was no, digital would have never grown in the first place and all we’ve seen is that digital eats analog technologies over time, because they’re more sophisticated and produce better returns for the publishers and better results for the advertisers. So, there is no doubt in my mind that addressable advertising crushes traditional broadcast advertising, and in no way, shape or form is competitive. So digital will far outcompete linear. That was part of my addressed remarks. I think the big challenge is that, linear is measured from a Nielsen panel that gets gross rating points. Digital is measured in actuals, which are real impressions delivered, verified. And there’s just a difference there in the way that they’re measured and marketers are trying to resolve those two. But it is certainly -- I wouldn’t characterize any one that I’ve spoken to is not willing to spend in streaming or addressable CTV. It’s just that they’re waiting for consumers to fully adopt that channel.

Okay. Super cool. And then the second thing I was really interested in is the 35% number. So you implemented AI and now you’re getting your customers to you’re a buy-side platform, 35% lower prices for the same content, I’d...

Unreal. Unreal results.

It sort of gives -- I mean, unfortunately, I take the negative side of this, like what the hell are you guys doing before overcharging your clients 35%. I mean that’s sort of the way, why is it you’re able to get such great improvement by now using AI, because AI machine learning has been out there for like five years and what’s new is generative AI, are you using generative AI? Is that why these improvements are so radical?

I wouldn’t classify it as generative AI. I would classify it as deep learning versus machine learning. That’s really the difference of the two that were applied. And you’re right, 35% is an enormous number and one that we’re really proud of. And I think the one thing that is important is, we achieved 35% savings on what we believe is already the lowest CPMs getting cleared through all competitive DSPs. So we do believe we had the lowest CPMs and we just raised the bar again. And that is our goal. If you watch any of the discussions that I have in the industry, we go to war with the sell-side to drive pricing down and we unleash technologies, data, algorithms, everything we can to work on behalf of that advertiser and this is just another breakthrough innovation that’s changed the game for the buy-side and one that’s going to reap huge benefits for us as we continue to compete in the market.

And I think one thing to point out, nearly all of our customers are all self-service at this point and so they themselves control bid pricing. So that’s one piece. Our platform always has worked well to achieve the lowest price when they are bidding. But in the end, the customer has a control. And I think with our new AI-powered Bid Optimizer here, we’re not only -- we’re doing it behind the scenes when they opt into it, but it’s still giving them the insights that not only number one, they still remain in control of the bid price, but it’s working hard on their behalf. And I would say that the CPM savings is massive and this is great and the clients love it. What it also does, it’s a multi-KPI-based optimization. So we -- clients find that even with this, their pacing and their ad performance is more streamlined, more even as well and so there’s other benefits here. We’ve gotten great response from our customers out of it.

It’s part of the reason in the prepared remarks, we feel the AI opportunity is more important than the invention of the real-time bidding protocol itself, because of the numbers that we’re seeing internally when it’s applied and trained properly and given the chance to go, it really is a transformative technology for ad tech, in general, and I think, for many other industries as well.

Great. Thank you very much. Great numbers.

Thank you.

Thanks, Laura.

Thanks.

Thank you. Our next question will be from Andrew Boone from JMP.

Hi, guys. Congrats on the strong results. The key takeaway for me this quarter is the inflection in profitability, right? EBITDA came in much better than we expected. If I go back and I look at 2020 and 2021, assuming a stable macro environment, do you guys have a path to kind of high 20s margins next year or how do we think about you guys balancing the profile of growth versus profitability?

Yeah. It’s hard to comment on next year, Larry, please comment if you’d like to. I think what we’re focused on is the application of artificial intelligence internally, as well as externally for our clients and then we’re going to see adoption rates of these technologies. AI is also a scary concept for some users of it. They don’t know how it’s going to do. They don’t want to mess up results. So it’s watching the adoption rates. In a perfect world, certainly, those numbers you talk about are achievable in a perfect world. But again, customers have to adopt it. The product has to perform. But certainly, the early results we’re seeing are encouraging.

I would add in terms of next year, we’ll continue to make strategic investments and continue to innovate. But I would say that, you -- I would not expect to see our operating expenses growing anywhere near what our contribution ex-TAC and revenue will grow. So hence to answer your question, our EBITDA margins will be higher next year than they are this year.

That’s helpful. And then I wanted to go back to the mid-market, right? You guys answered this in a certain respect with Maria’s question. But how do you guys think about the needs of the middle market agency and how are they different than the holdco and how are you guys addressing that, right? So how are you guys winning that business? Thanks so much.

Number one, I think, the -- right off the bat, the mid-market agencies and the mid-market customers, in general, they need -- it’s all about campaign performance. They have to see the return on ad spend. These aren’t customers who, in Laura’s question, like, in the holdco, you get a lot of broadcast style buying, we’re just buying content, you’re delivering ads. You’re delivering X millions of impressions of ads. So the bar that you have to clear from an ad performance isn’t very high. When it gets to the mid-market, these customers are steering at [ph] customer acquisition cost, it has to perform. That’s number one. A big component of that is the price that you are paying for the ad impression. So we’re really standing out there, as we highlighted with our AI Bid Optimizer. The second I’ll say is that, the mid-markets don’t carry the level of staff that we typically see trading or programmatic trading. So the platform has to be a lot more automated. So they demand it just because they don’t have that same level of headcount, and again, we have a huge focus on automation. So that’s why we continue to win there. But in the end, the mid-market needs exactly what the holdcos have by partnering with Google, Meta at huge levels and billion dollars of ad spend. They need a sophisticated ad platform that’s able to get the right ad in front of the right user and pay the right price. I think that’s where the DSP steps in and helps them accomplish those goals very efficiently from an employee productivity perspective.

Thank you, guys.

Thanks, Andrew.

Thank you. Next up we have Andrew Marok from Raymond James.

Yeah. Thank you for taking my questions. Understanding that you’re making intentional efforts in terms of which customers to allocate resources to, I guess, in light of that customer list optimization, how many of the remaining 314 customers do you think are ones that you can forge these higher value relationships with, and I guess, how does that impact your sales strategy and potentially the sales and marketing line as well?

The predominant amount of them are those types of customers without a doubt. So we feel really good around the engagement with our customers right now. I think what you’re highlighting is just the decision that we made with lower spending customers who don’t show the same level of adoption as the higher spending ones that we basically, it’s not that we kick them off the platform. But if they don’t spend a certain amount, they’re going to have higher pricing and so we do expect some of those to continue to drop off. Again, the customers we want, although we’re in the mid-market, we’re aiming for customers that are going to spend in the tens of millions and that’s really where we’re focused.

At this stage, yeah. It’s important to scale with customers that can scale with you.

Great. And then with Direct Access, we’ve seen a good number of peers introducing these kinds of disintermediating products, whether coming from the demand side and the supply side or vice versa. I guess can you talk about how you see that space evolving if everyone has a Direct product? And then how does Viant kind of set themselves apart in that future scenario?

Yeah. Well, one, I don’t think it’s so much so about disintermediating, what I think it is, from our standpoint, again, buy-side, we represent the advertiser. It’s about getting them the lowest possible price or eliminating unnecessary tech tax in the middle. And there’s a lot -- look, in programmatic, historically, there’s been a lot of middlemen trading that I think the buy-side has really been focused on driving out and I think that’s what you’re seeing. So anyone who has direct relationships with publishers, they’re going to continue to do well there. This is just a -- I would say this has been going on for probably three years to four years, this concept of supply path optimization, that’s really what it’s about is, they want the most direct path to the content owner and they don’t want a bunch of unnecessary people in the middle taking attacks. So that’s really what it’s about. In the end, price drives, is a huge component of campaign performance, and at the end of the day, customers rely on us to drive that campaign performance. So again, we’re going to remain completely on the buy-side. We don’t -- these aren’t sell-side initiatives. It’s giving the sell-side direct access to our customers’ demand.

Appreciate the color. Thank you.

Thank you, Andrew.

Our next question is from Jason Kreyer from Craig-Hallum.

Hi, guys. Thank you. Great results. You talked a lot about mid-market, and so after the quarter, we saw the announced bankruptcy of one of your competitors and I think they had a presence in the mid-market. Just curious if you see an opportunity for further share gain on the heels of that?

Yeah. I believe you’re referring to the bankruptcy of MediaMath that happened right at the end of Q2 there. We had many shared customers with MediaMath. We believed we were gaining market share from MediaMath regardless of the bankruptcy, and obviously, they filed bankruptcy, which was tough to see for the employees. But I think it’s due to we offer a superior product and that was just capitalism playing out. We saw benefits the day of MediaMath’s bankruptcy filing. We had many shared customers and we saw budgets flowing out of MediaMath and into our platform. And so we were evaluating MediaMath from an acquisition perspective. Unfortunately, we couldn’t get conviction on their cost structure. It was just upside down there. But ultimately, we felt like our product was going to beat them competitively and organically and so we decided not to deploy capital there, which I think proved to be a good decision. We gained many more ad dollars, not necessarily new customers, but more ad dollars in the platform the day they did file bankruptcy. So I think, one, they’re just one competitor in the mid-market. We compete against Yahoo! a lot in the mid-market head-to-head and we’re very focused on beating them in that area as well, too, and we’ve done a good job at that. And so I think, overall, we’re gaining market share from multiple people and what happened in MediaMath was an unfortunate event.

One numbers follow-up for Larry. The GAAP revenue outperformance was greater than the contribution ex-TAC performance. I don’t know if that’s related to a shift between revenue models between fixed fee and percent of spend. That would be my speculation. Just wondering if you can add -- unpack the difference?

Yeah. I mean, first of all, as compared to last year, the growth rates across spend, revenue and contribution ex-TAC have -- are beginning to convert. So they’re getting closer. Last year, that was not the case when we were going through the mix shift. But that being said, there may be some variability of relative growth rates in any given quarter based on mix, based on seasonality of customer spend, but we don’t expect growth rates for the different topline metrics to be materially different from one another, certainly not like they were last year. Longer term, as fixed price continues to become a smaller and smaller percentage of total revenue, we do expect contribution ex-TAC rate -- growth rates to outpace revenue growth rates and we’ll see that quarter-by-quarter, but long-term, we do expect that to be the scenario.

Great. Thank you.

And our last question of the day is from Chris Kuntarich from UBS.

Hi, Chris. Are you there?

I think you’re on mute, Chris.

Apologies. Can you guys hear me now?

Yeah.

Great. Can we just talk about some cost efficiencies, it seems like you guys have gotten great leverage there, just visibility into the ability to take further cost efficiencies as you guys are growing your headcount in the R&D group at 39%?

Yeah. I mean a lot of the cost efficiencies we knew we had a predominant amount of already in the bag from the actions that we took at the end of last year. But I would just say the productivity gains that we’re seeing by leveraging AI tools internally has been tremendous. Whether that be in our marketing group, them leveraging LLMs, whether that be, I would say, on our data science team and anyone in our analytics groups, utilizing that for customers on top of campaign performance data and then in engineering as well. I mean just doing -- using basic tools like GitHub Copilot, we’re seeing just incredible productivity gains there and we think we’re only scratching the surface. So that’s really where we’re looking. And I think there’s some offset to those as we leverage AI tools more. It’s going to -- there are some technology cost increases there, but nowhere near the benefits that we’re gaining from it. So that’s a big focus that’s going to remain in the back half of the year.

Got it. And just as we kind of think about some of the idiosyncratic wins that you guys hear, the AI Bid Optimizer definitely stands out and where you’re getting the 35% CPM savings here. Just curious like if you could potentially quantify what the contribution was in the quarter or if just more anecdotally, you’re seeing more budgets open up. It’s bringing more conversation -- you guys bringing more conversations on the table? Just help us frame up upside from that?

Well, it’s a revenue driver as well. It’s important to talk about the business model as we roll this out. When we achieve savings for our customers, we make a percentage of that savings. So we charge in general, it’s about 20% of savings. And so as we create value for our customers, it creates value and grows our revenue. Adoption was -- it was very early, Chris, in Q2. So we wanted to just share some of the data points on some of these exciting numbers. So adoption is low. The positive is that scales into the future and it’s just another revenue driver for Viant as we exit 2023 and enter 2024 with more widespread adoption by the customer base. But when you have 35% savings in the initial data points, that helps accelerate adoption through our sales team and I think that’s a big one.

And I was just going to say that, if a customer has -- typically what they do is they go on the platform, they put in their budget. If you’re getting 35% lower CPMs, that means you get more ad impressions. More ad impressions is more reach. You’re making your influencing consumers, therefore, that turns into more customers and the campaign performance has, therefore, increased. That’s why we talk so much around price. It’s -- it might be -- it depends on who it is, but it may be the largest determiner of campaign performance is the price that you pay. Easy example, if you pay a $10 CPM versus a $5 CPM, the $10 CPM price has to perform twice the rate of the $5. So campaign -- CPM pricing is so important to performance. When we hit the performance level versus other platforms they may be using, it helps us win share of dollars. So it’s just the circular effect that, although, as Tim said is early, we’re really excited about it and we expect the adoption to steadily increase throughout the end of the year.

Got it. And as we think about this kind of ramping, I understand from the adoption side, maybe just from the upside to that 35%? Are we kind of -- are we going to be having a conversation around 40%, 50% kind of lower CPMs this time for 3Q earnings or is it kind of 35% and it’s held pretty steady in your early findings.

Yeah. 35% is the average. So we saw as high as high 40%s, high double-digit 40%s. And so on some advertising campaigns, it all depends on what they’re doing. We also saw further increases on top of our own prior bid optimization using machine learning. So there’s many benchmarks. Some customers use a third-party AI algorithm to try and predict bids and we were able to beat those as well too. So I think that’s the value of when all these products are integrated into the DSP, not various third parties doing it. But it’s a range and it’s also arranged by channel as well, CTV, display, online video, there’s a wide disparity of pricing out there on CPMs and what it’s worth. So the ability for us to come in and apply a consistent algorithm across every channel format on behalf of the trader and make sure it’s working on their behalf. One big important thing is, a human can only check a campaign so many times, but a deep learning model can actually check it all of the time consistently and make more changes than a human. So man versus machine. Machines always going to be able to perform those tasks more consistently, more often, which drives huge savings.

And I think what we’re seeing, I want to just -- and I shared this on our last earnings -- our last earnings call. When we talk about Direct Access, so it’s something that’s different, what -- when you combine it to, really, what we’re seeing is, what we’re finding is not that publishers are getting lower CPMs interestingly. They’re getting higher CPMs because what we see is that the win rate in the auction, actually, our win rate goes up. So what we’re identifying is in the middle, we’re finding that there are multiple intermediaries that really are getting squeezed. So when you combine our efforts on Direct Access and then our AI Bid Optimizer, we’re finding true market price. That’s what clients, that’s really what we’re getting to. And that is always changing. Clearly, right, one quarter to the next market may be stronger, certain publishers may be selling out, so maybe pricing increases from one quarter to the next. But in the end, clients want to make sure they’re getting a fair shake and we’re making sure that they’re getting that.

Got it. Thanks for the color.

Perfect.

That concludes our questions portion.

Great. Well, I’d like to thank everyone for joining the earnings call. I want to thank the Viant team for an incredible execution in the second quarter and we will see you all at an Innovation Day later this year and at our next earnings call. Thanks for joining.

Thank you everyone for joining us today. This now concludes today’s webinar. You may now disconnect. Have a great day.