Earnings Labs

Digimarc Corporation (DMRC)

Q3 2015 Earnings Call· Thu, Oct 29, 2015

$7.08

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good afternoon and thank you for participating in today's conference call. Now, I will turn the call over to Bruce Davis, Chairman and CEO of Digimarc. Mr. Davis, please proceed.

Bruce Davis

Management

Thank you and good afternoon. Welcome to our conference call. Charles Beck, our CFO, is with me. On the call today, we'll review Q3 financial results, discuss significant business developments and market conditions, and provide an update on execution of strategy. This webcast will be archived in the Investor Relations section of our website. Please note that during the course of this call, we will be making certain forward-looking statements, including those regarding revenue recognition matters, results of operations, investments, initiatives, and growth strategies. We will also discuss from time to time information provided to us by channel partners and actual or prudential customers about their business activities. Please appreciate that we are providing this information as we understand it was represented to us by the customers and partners and we do not verify for such information. Such forward-looking statements and statements of our partners and customers are subject to many assumptions, risks, uncertainties, and changes of circumstances. Any assumptions we share about future performance represent a point-in-time estimate. Actual results may vary materially from those expressed or implied by such statements. We expressly disclaim any obligation to revise or update any assumptions, projections, or other forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances that may arise after the date of this conference call. For more information about risk factors that may cause actual results to differ from expectations, please see the company's filings with the SEC, including our latest Form 10-Q that we expect to file shortly. Charles will begin by commenting on our financial results. I’ll then discuss significant business developments, market conditions, and execution of strategy. Charles?

Charles Beck

Management

Thanks Bruce. Good afternoon, everyone. Revenue for the quarter was 5.4 million, down from 6.9 million in the third quarter of last year. All of the decline was due to lower license revenue, reflecting the end of payments from Verance Corporation last year. Service was down slightly due to timing of program mark, while subscription revenue was up slightly due to higher Digimarc Discover and Barcode revenue. Gross margin was 61% for the quarter, 8 points lower than the third quarter of 2014 reflecting the impact of lower license revenue. Operating expenses were lower than Q3 of last year by 300,000 or 4% reflecting lower spending in R&A and G&A, partially offset by higher investment in sales and marketing as we shifter focus in execution of strategy to market development and delivery for Digimarc Discover and Barcode. Since the end of last quarter, we’ve increased staff by 16 bringing the total number of employees to 170. We expect to hire another 10 or so employees by the end of the year. These figures represent a net increase in staffing including the reduction and personnel for the Guardian area of our business. Growth in staffing has spread pretty evenly across sales and marketing, engineering, operations and IT in repose to increasing demand for professional services and software development associated with Digimarc Discover and Barcode. Fourth operating expenses will be higher than the third quarter by approximately 700,000 due to these increases in personnel. Bruce will provide more color on the motivation for these investments in his discussion of execution of strategy. The net loss for the third quarter was 4.5 million or $0.54 per diluted share versus a net loss of 2 million or $0.28 per diluted share in the same quarter last year. The larger net loss was due to…

Bruce Davis

Management

Thanks Charles. Before we get into a detailed discussion of Digimarc Discover and Barcode, let me briefly comment on other areas of our business. As promised on our last call, we have taken steps to improve management, business practices and financial performance in our Guardian area of business, including reducing variable cost of service delivery lowering fixed cost and carefully scrutinizing margin prospects from new business opportunities, the other results from the efforts show improving gross margins and a large reduction in the go forward run rate of expenses for Guardian. We stated goal on the last quarterly call to get the cash flow run rate to breakeven or better within two and three quarter and we’re on track to accomplish this goal. Everything has stated cool in the payment area, we have an approved budget with the Central Banks from next year that should reflect historical financial trends for the growth in that area of the business. And regarding pattern portfolio, we’re successfully into the several licenses so far this year. We did not acquire any new pattern licensees for engaging any reinforcement activities during Q3. That appears that license revenues are stabilizing ending many quarters of decline. The supplier networks supporting Digimarc Discover and Barcode is developing nicely in our channel partner program. The goals of our channel partner program are to put in place multiple sources of supply for our critical elements of infrastructure and amplify our sales and marketing via the client relations capabilities of these partners. Expansion on elaboration of infrastructure being the channel partner program is very important and that allows us to focus on our core competence in identification and discovery processes, consistent with our goal of making efficient use of working capital as well as force multiplier in sales and marketing and…

Operator

Operator

Thank you, sir. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Josh Nichols from B. Riley.

Josh Nichols

Analyst

We know that for this year when that they push was to increase channel partner relationships and that’s a pretty successful, now that we are getting later on in the year, can tell us little bit us to what the strategy for 2016 might be?

Bruce Davis

Management

Yes, so we will do what we can to sell all we can in ‘16 and to maximize the beneficial effects of our channel partners and supporting that. And we will continue to add channel partners and we will continue to grow share like our share voice in the market that is informing all of the relevant elements of the supply chain about us to reduce friction and increase demand. And so we done very well this year I think in building up the channel relationships but there are still things going on, they are right before public discussion yet but in ‘16 as I said in the closing remarks here we need to demonstrate that path to significant revenue growth and profitability that’s what we intend to do.

Josh Nichols

Analyst

And then just following-up, you mentioned that there were four more retailers who had intern to type of pilot of job program any information to give without that information?

Bruce Davis

Management

No, not really. So let the public know whenever they are ready. And Wegmans as we’ve talked in the past is in full production, the other are doing pilot programs, improve the concept and that’s what we anticipated would be the status for adoption of our technology, so we are running through that process now.

Josh Nichols

Analyst

Okay and just for the partnership you have it right, so Wegmans I mean they are already adopted and then on the last conference call, I believe you mentioned that there were two additional retailer two doing -

Bruce Davis

Management

Yeah, there were four.

Josh Nichols

Analyst

Now you are four, so you added one new retailer this quarter, is that correct?

Bruce Davis

Management

No, two more. So there are total of five that are in production Webmans plus four, the other four are in initial small quality production for proof of concept testing.

Josh Nichols

Analyst

Great, thank you.

Bruce Davis

Management

You’re welcome.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from Saliq Khan with Imperial Capital.

Saliq Khan

Analyst · Imperial Capital.

Great, thank you. Hey Bruce, couple of questions for you. First one being is, how is your marketing effort targeting incorporating the - the way that’s still going to go after the millennial market and how did you envision this market growing and helping it top the revenue line growth?

Bruce Davis

Management

Well with respect to millennial, millennial are perhaps the leading edge of the mobile centric shopper profile, but everyone it seems as you can observed in published information generally is getting more interested in formation to support your purchase decisions. And there is very broad range of relevant information. And so it poses and then possible task for the package to communicate unless it’s connected to a network with dynamic data and the other way to connect to the network would be conventional barcode or addition more symbologies if you are not going to Digimarc Barcode, so we think we are the perfect solution to the growing desire of consumers for information that’s not just a millennial but everybody wants to know more. And it’s not that what to know all the same things, they seem to have quite a wide range of factors that appear to influence their purchase decisions on their satisfaction. And so our marketing programs are really trade programs, not consumer programs. We are supporting retailers with the focus that we have in our strategy of improving their operating efficiency and enhancing their consumer engagement. And we are increasing engaged with brands in explaining the mediate benefits that brands can enjoy including the focus on our investment thesis on improving consumer engagement but moving beyond that into many other aspects of their operations. And so there is a lot of work to do in educating those customer groups but also the supply chain designers, developers and printers. And so by increasing our sales and marketing resources, we can do a better job of educating everyone about what is involved in adoption of Digimarc Barcode and Discover.

Saliq Khan

Analyst · Imperial Capital.

Okay, you know the same point, as you are entering a little bit closer to NRF is coming up January, how is you focus changed and how is your force going to be not only just about targeting the millennial but also getting some of these four, five piles that you do have in place, but finally getting it come out and announce who it is if they are, how many stores that they are going to be adopt their technology in?

Bruce Davis

Management

Well, the strategy has broadened a bit but is largely as it was which is that I continue to believe that the operating efficiency benefits for retailers alone you know justify the adoption of our platform and that the most interesting initial benefit from the brand perspective is enhancing consumer engagement dealing with regulatory requirements. And so far, this increasing complexity of communication associated with the purchase process, but we are seeing recognition of the premise that are stated now in last couple of quarters that effectively whatever you do at barcodes we can do better. And so there is growing interest in the broad enablement of increasing operational effectiveness for retailers and brands. And so our presentation in January will be settle as we closer for the show in terms what people want to say about what they are doing and again, we don’t try to press that to the point where it would jeopardize our good relations we let them talk about their business as much as they chose to. So I won’t know for some time now what any of the channel partners and customers will do willing to say there, but we’ll encourage them say as much as they can in order to faster adoption within the trade.

Saliq Khan

Analyst · Imperial Capital.

Okay and lastly which is are there opportunities aside of the United States which you are currently exploring specifically China, it tend to be a lot of tech than different parts of the world?

Bruce Davis

Management

Yeah, we don’t have anything to announce in far markets at this point. We continue to focus most of our resources on the domestic market. There is interest in other markets and our web interfaces critical to allowing for easy experimentation in overseas markets and we do track in experiments and where we see some reason to which out we do, but we are not trying to engage a large global sales force at this point. We have much to do here in the U.S. market. And in order to manage our working capital, effectively we chose to focus on the domestic market.

Saliq Khan

Analyst · Imperial Capital.

Great, thank you Bruce.

Bruce Davis

Management

You bet.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from James Sullivan [ph] with Cowen & Company.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Good afternoon, thanks for talking my questions. So I wanted to dig into OpEx a little bit, as you said the Q4 should be about $700,000 higher than Q3, is that right?

Bruce Davis

Management

Correct, yes.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

So does that become and that was mainly due to additional headcount net of reduction, right?

Bruce Davis

Management

Correct.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

So is that a run rate that continues or is that on - because you also mentioned some additional spending in a couple of various?

Bruce Davis

Management

Yeah, that run rate we do expect to continue and with increase sales and marketing personnel that will be cost you with travel and entertainment, those sorts of cost of higher headcount. That would continue, yes.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Okay, but is there a reason to think it might continue to increase from there as you continue to grow or do you got the infrastructure in place now that you need?

Bruce Davis

Management

At this point, we are not planning on any material increases.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Okay. My second question has to do with the trial programs, so there were two in place aside Wegmans, there were two in place at the end of Q2, just curious what is the sort of turnaround time that you anticipate to take a trail program into full production or full rollout?

Bruce Davis

Management

I would say no, you know - there isn’t any fixed program enter the program on day one and you know day 23 there is an outcome, so it varies from business to business and it varies within the business by shifting priorities or staffing and you know so it’s very hard to tell and that why as we provided some inside into our budgeting for 2016, we were not assuming any inflection points in that budgeting we’re because we can’t figure out the order in which those things might happen and the timing of them. So for budgeting purposed, we’re just assuming that we enjoy some incremental growth but that we don’t achieve those inflection points. I continue to believe that’s the way the market will develop however.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Okay and these four trail program are all private label, correct?

Bruce Davis

Management

Yes.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

How many SKUs if you know or if you can share, how many SKUs does Wegmans have up in running on the private label side and on the mix basket side?

Bruce Davis

Management

I can’t share that with you because that’s their information to share or not.

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Okay, thanks, I’ll get back in the line. Thank you.

Bruce Davis

Management

You bet.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from Glenn Mattson with Ladenburg Thalmann.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst · Ladenburg Thalmann.

Yeah, good afternoon, everybody. The question on the capital raise, the transaction, this is - I think it was this summer, can you say was that one investor I think you didn’t say and then is it - can you say for sure, just I don’t know, you may know how is it, but is it an investor or maybe a strategic partner, could you should color on that?

Bruce Davis

Management

Yes, what appear to be the large block trade on one day was in fact a new investor, a high quality financial institution and that’s about all I can say for now unless and until they chose to disclose the ownership.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst · Ladenburg Thalmann.

And so if there was a - there was a fund of some source they would be - so they would have to report that at some point right or what’s the - you have released on you 10-Q or anything like that?

Bruce Davis

Management

No we don’t believe we have any disclosure obligation and so we will be up to them when and if they disclose and we don’t make any effort to study the regulatory requirement or whatever, so they will disclose when and if they feel as appropriate.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst · Ladenburg Thalmann.

Okay, thanks and then in the guidance for - not the guidance but I guess the kind of whey you laid out for next year, does that assume that is any material revenue from this four trial customers?

Bruce Davis

Management

That is not constructed in that way. We use an expected value sort of portfolio discounting approach here, so and I has to do with the uncertainly that I refer to a moment ago about sequence and timing. We would expect that during 2016, there will be many brands in retailers participating but we don’t know at this point time how the volume ramps, how long the testing last and things of that sort that will allow us to develop an estimate for that other than a very conservative one which we think about the potential success of the portfolio and we apply percentages and then we sort of think that volume has a number as a budgeting number, so that we can resource against it, like ensure we can at least serve the bottom end of the range on potentially much of the upside, but that’s how the budgeting process works, it’s really just an effort by us to come up with a sensible rate of investment as opposed to trying to be very precise on the revenue figure. And Charles point out, I think from an investor perspective and certainly from my perspective our cash was - and bookings will be more meaningful indicators than the - whatever that terms out to be. So we’re focusing on the cash flow here and on managing the working capital and making sure that we’re comfortable that we have working in capital to deliver success. And that we are spending more than we need to spend to get there.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst · Ladenburg Thalmann.

Okay, it is for potential trials, are these people signed up for any type of enterprise deal where they are locked in at a certain rate or if the - you know if you say convert to full customers from trails. Where there be a step up in the potential revenue, and then they say revenue but step up in the order flow the flow the - the bookings growth that kind of thing.

Bruce Davis

Management

We don’t know, they’re titles and so we’re going to assume here they’re going to be successful, but once they’re successful then there needs to be a roll out plan and we have to get to success before we decide on the roll out plan. So I really don’t know the answer.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst · Ladenburg Thalmann.

Okay and do you have a firm idea on the pricing, is it going to be more of a license model or per item or should any of these turn out to be successful?

Bruce Davis

Management

Well, as I said in my prepared remarks, I think that we’re going to be able to deliver a great deal of efficiency on an ongoing basis on professional services both directly and through our channel partner. With respect to the code D for packaging, weathers the published price. Tenant price licenses would encompass a broad range or perhaps even all users of the Digimarc Discover and Barcode platform and that will be subject to negotiation.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst · Ladenburg Thalmann.

Okay, just one more point of clarity also, you said there’s the four retailers beyond Wegmans and then there’s also several global brands and I’ve written down here that there were four clients, is that an additional four global brands that testing the Discover products?

Bruce Davis

Management

The numbers that I’ve given you are in production, but in production for limited quantities for testing purposes.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst · Ladenburg Thalmann.

Right, so it’s four retailers and four brands right?

Bruce Davis

Management

Yeah, that’s how I determine what - to say to you in terms of numbers are, many, many more retailers and brands that we’re engaged in conversations with, but those are actually engaged in production with us.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst · Ladenburg Thalmann.

Okay and then absolutely thing, the Nielson agreement, is there revenue associated with that, maybe Petrozza [indiscernible] [0:41:55].

Bruce Davis

Management

We’ll see, if - we’re going to offer a sweep of technologies and solutions to the Nielson client base that accomplishes basically everybody in television, radio and product marketing, consumer product marketing and we’ll see how we do. So we concluded that after a period of nominal investment, we need to see how the market would shape up that there appears to be sufficient interest in having us work together for the benefit of those constituents that we should get back together and do it. It ties in also to what appears to be a bit of a renaissance of interest in digital watermarking in television and other video distribution channels. So I think everybody’s sort of getting hit to the notion that the Digimarc imperceptible in coding is very good means of managing media and providing for nominal applications built on the ability for mobile devices and other computer interfaces to accurately and efficiently recognize what I’ll call media objects, that is various elements of the media stream in the case of video and audio streams. So it’s - it looks like there’s favorable trend developing and so we and our friends at Nielson decided that we’re going to serve the client’s interest in that regard.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst · Ladenburg Thalmann.

Okay, great. Good luck with - in the rest of the year. Thanks.

Bruce Davis

Management

Thanks, Matt.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from [ph].

Unidentified Analyst

Analyst

Thanks, but my question has been answered.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from Kevin Hanrahan with KMH Capital.

Kevin Hanrahan

Analyst · KMH Capital.

Hi Charles, I had a follow up question to what Glenn was asking about the strategic buyer though I think you mentioned in July. I know you’re limited what you could see, my only question is, were all 342,000 share issued in the third quarter issued towards the same buyer, to a single buyer?

Charles Beck

Management

No, they were - not to our knowledge. There is the one block - there was the one block trade of 225 K and then the reminder of the share was sold just in the open market. So we don’t know who the buyer was.

Kevin Hanrahan

Analyst · KMH Capital.

To possibly are other buyers.

Charles Beck

Management

Likely many other buyers, yes.

Kevin Hanrahan

Analyst · KMH Capital.

Many other buyers, okay. Thanks Charles, it’s helpful. And Bruce I had a question about the Nielson reactivate a JV, I think that’s the way you put it. As I recall the JV with Nielson, there was two JVs which we were always confused by, so can you tell us is there one now?

Bruce Davis

Management

There were two and are two because the other one is still in existence. Our focus initially here is on mobile engagement of consumers. And so that would - one of the ventures focused in that area, so that’s the one that we are going to be marketing in the short. The other one may sell out rather than sales as well and again we paused in the investment and because you’ve been with us long time Kevin, you may remember that we sort of we’re not engaged first and we’re trying to ferment interest in the market and the next thing I knew, there were a 100 companies, venture backs that seem to be trying to give them the business, that’s when we decided to back off and let them go ahead and experiment and spend their capital and see came off it. And so now as the years have passed, we’ve gotten to a point where we think we understand how to provide meaningful value to the Nielson client and we want to go out and offer that and see how it did.

Kevin Hanrahan

Analyst · KMH Capital.

So kind of the way I would look at is, there’s an active JV and there’s kind of dormant JV at this time, is that fair?

Bruce Davis

Management

Yeah, that’s fair, yeah.

Kevin Hanrahan

Analyst · KMH Capital.

Okay and is there some CapEx associated with the one that is active on Digimarc’s part? Will you have a little bit of spending associated with that?

Bruce Davis

Management

No, nothing material in the near term that we foresee, yeah. And again we’re - there’s been some expression of interest in us doing this, otherwise obviously we wouldn’t be dealing it, but we need to test out those expressions of interests and figure out what’s involved and then figure out how to make money together. So that’s the idea and it’s also an important element of the promise of the Digimarc Discover platform of enabling mobile centric shoppers, but also more generally mobile expenditure, consumers of information and entertainment to use that platform for all media and so television and radio are obviously very important elements of that promise.

Kevin Hanrahan

Analyst · KMH Capital.

Right, right, so these applications would be the applications that customers of Nielson and Arbitron want to do that are not involved in audience measurement.

Bruce Davis

Management

Right.

Kevin Hanrahan

Analyst · KMH Capital.

Okay, that’s great. Thanks so much.

Bruce Davis

Management

Alright, thanks Kevin.

Operator

Operator

Our next question comes from John Grimley with TJW Capital.

John Grimley

Analyst · TJW Capital.

Hey, Bruce.

Bruce Davis

Management

Hello, John.

John Grimley

Analyst · TJW Capital.

Just want to understand what the brands - what’s driving the brand interest in watermarking? Is it consumer engagement or need to be more engaged with their consumer or is it inventory management or what are kind of the key sales messages that your sales force is going out with or what’s the driving the most interest from the brands obviously for retails to be check out?

Bruce Davis

Management

I think the most exciting proposition for the consumer products company is this solving this problem of the increasing complexity of satisfying the purchase information desires of consumers and the associated, sort of flip side of regulatory requirements of the government. So the government is trying to responsible for the consumers and the consumers are asking for an increase in the complex portfolio of information and how the hell do you deliver, on the package you can’t. There are - for instance the FDA has 52 required pieces of information on every package. Well, I don’t know, often you spend time looking at the details of packaging, but there isn’t real estate left. And there is desire for information and there are some pending changes in nutritional labels coming up that have been subject to discussion where the FDA is trying to promote those changes and those changes will require sort of wholesale updating of all the packaging in the food industry. So there are big issues that the industry is facing regarding information flow at the point of purchase and that reflect the post purchase in the home and reordering context and maximize the value of what’s been purchased. And so I think that’s part of the hot button, but various brands are also looking at other applications and our strategy here is to focus our investment on identification and discovery and the fostering application development community that builds value on a fundamental code sheet and the more applications that are built on that the more inherent value there is in the global unique identifier that we license on an annual basis. So that’s strategy is to really to comfort the development community to bring more value to all the clients, but for us are marketing to focus on what is perceived to be the sort of half bug note big issue and I think that is consumer information.

John Grimley

Analyst · TJW Capital.

Great, thanks and then just - last year was about the first customer, this year’s about the ecosystem. How far along are you in building up the ecosystem and how fast could you scale? I know the barcode took like five years from day one to kind of full penetration.

Bruce Davis

Management

We’re doing pretty well. One of our next big initiatives was, foreshadowed in the press release earlier today. We want to displace all of the scanner modules in the retailer apps completely. We want to be the discovery engine for retail and so that’s an important element of the ecosystem because even though we have scan buy Scan buy and suzam [ph], who are embracing our platform. They have value propositions for the brands that differ from the large retailers and the large retailers are an important of being able to deliver the up enhanced consumer access to information. And so that’s the relevance of this morning’s announcement is that, we want to take that entire function over and we believe that will be a very strong value proposition to the retailers. As we progress in that our perceived value to the brands increases, which will cause them - the brands to embrace us more quickly and more fully. So that’s the strategy, that’s one example of continuing to fill out the infrastructure here. There are some other things that we’re doing that we’re not quite ready to talk about yet, but we’ll continue to fulfill the promise that I’ve stated provided multiple sources are supplied for every element of key critical infrastructure on an ongoing basis. But we also want to demonstrate the path to revenue growth and profitability as soon as we can. And so we’re really - as you follow the progression of the strategy from last year sort of debugging the process with our wonderful first customer at Wegmans, this year was getting more perspective customers in the pipeline into production expanding our production capability, refining our tools and business processes and that are expanding sales and marketing, all of that is the foundation for hopefully beginning to sign up significant customers and generate significant bookings and cash flow and revenues.

John Grimley

Analyst · TJW Capital.

Great and then last question, as the years line by so quickly, where it’s not that long to interrupt, you guys are planning to do interrupt this year again?

Bruce Davis

Management

Yes, we’re going to have a significantly larger presence or boosts three times as large as it was last year. And we believe we’ll have an increased participation around the flow from general partners.

John Grimley

Analyst · TJW Capital.

Got it, so that’s always kind of the year end for you guys. So that’s - it should be a big. Okay, I just wanted to make - put it in my calendar to make sure that - make sure you were showing up again? It sounds like you’re -

Bruce Davis

Management

Yeah, it’s - that interrupt is kind of our report card.

John Grimley

Analyst · TJW Capital.

Yeah, I know that’s why I think of it so.

Bruce Davis

Management

Yes, we do, yeah.

John Grimley

Analyst · TJW Capital.

Alright, it’s not that far away, I look forward to it. Congrats on your progress. Thanks Bruce.

Bruce Davis

Management

Thank you, John.

Operator

Operator

And we have a follow up question from the line of Glenn Mattson with Ladenburg Thalmann.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst

Specification rrom Charles, could you go through - what was the - was there a cash burn number you gave, was it 45 million quarter, is that what you said?

Charles Beck

Management

Yeah, we used 4 million in Q3 and we expect to use a similar amount in Q4, that’s excluding the financing activities.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst

Yeah, that’s including CapEx and things right, the free cash flow?

Charles Beck

Management

Yes.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst

Okay.

Charles Beck

Management

That includes CapEx, that includes CapEx.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst

Yeah, okay, okay.

Charles Beck

Management

And I said for - based on our baseline budget for next year, we’ll be in a similar range 4 million to 5 million per quarter, again under just the baseline budget.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst

Okay, I heard 3.3 million in Q3, is that - you said - what did you say, about four?

Charles Beck

Management

Yeah, I think if you back out all the financing stuff.

Glenn Mattson

Analyst

Alright, sounds good. Thanks.

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, we have exceeded the allotted time for Q&A. I’ll now hand the program back over to Bruce Davis for any additional or closing remarks.

Bruce Davis

Management

Thank you everyone for your continuing support. We will report again to you actually at the financial conferences coming up. We’ll provide some updates and then we’ll be, as I mentioned a moment ago putting on display all that we can make public in January. So thank you very much for your support.

Operator

Operator

This concludes today’s call. Thank you ladies and gentlemen.