Earnings Labs

Diebold Nixdorf, Incorporated (DBD)

Q4 2011 Earnings Call· Mon, Feb 13, 2012

$83.46

+1.41%

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good day, everyone, and welcome to the Diebold, Incorporated Fourth Quarter Financial Results Conference Call. Today’s call is being recorded. At this time for opening remarks and introductions, I’d like to turn the call over to the Vice President and Chief Communications Officer, Mr. John Kristoff. Please go ahead, sir.

John Kristoff

Management

Thank you, Tom. Good morning and thank you for joining us for Diebold’s fourth quarter conference call. Joining me today are Tom Swidarski, President and CEO and Brad Richardson, Executive Vice President and CFO. Just a few notes before we get started. In addition to the earnings release, we’ve provided a supplementary presentation on the Investor page of our website. Tom and Brad will be walking through this presentation as part of their comments today and we encourage you to follow along. Before we discuss our results as with past calls, it’s important to note that we have restructuring, non-routine expenses, non-routine income and impairment charges in our financials. We believe that excluding these items gives an indication of the company’s baseline operational performance. As a result, many of the remarks this morning will focus on non-GAAP financial information. For a complete reconciliation of our GAAP to non-GAAP numbers, please refer to the supplemental material at the end of the presentation. In addition, all results of operations reported today, including prior periods, exclude discontinued operations. Finally, a replay of this conference call will be available later today from our website. As a reminder, some of the comments today may be considered forward-looking statements. Internal and external factors could significantly impact actual results. As a precaution please refer to the more detailed risk factors that have previously been filed with the SEC. And now with opening remarks, I’ll turn it over to Tom.

Thomas Swidarski

Management

Thanks, john. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining our call today. We closed 2011 on a winning note with strong performance in revenue growth and profitability across most regions. Most importantly, we delivered on all our prior commitments in several key areas. First, we delivered on our top line revenue commitment by growing 7.5% in the fourth quarter despite a 2% headwind from currency. Second, we generated about $5 million in operating profit in EMEA during the fourth quarter. Third, we exceeded the top end of our EPS guidance even when excluding the tax benefit from Brazil. Finally, our strong free cash flow generation during the quarter enabled us to exceed our full-year free cash flow guidance by more than $10 million. These results speak to the improving health in our markets as well as our strengthening competitive position and continued operational progress. Our strategy to leverage our capabilities in services, software and innovation is beginning to pay dividends and its meeting the needs of our rapidly evolving markets. In addition, Diebold delivered significant growth in revenue and generated more than $250 million in free cash flow during the fourth quarter. Our global financial self-service orders grew 17% during the quarter, with growth in every region of the world. The North American market continues to grow an impressive rate as demand remains strong. As we look to 2012, I’m encouraged by how our business is growing and we’re developing new innovations to help drive further growth. We will once again step up our R&D investments in new solutions in 2012 that will help financial institutions reduce their operating expenses while attracting new customers. Along these lines we continue to roll out new industry innovations. During our last call, we talked about several key announcements, including the development of the worlds…

Bradley Richardson

Management

Thanks, Tom, and good morning, everyone. Before I get into the quarterly financial results and 2012 outlook, I’d like to walk you through our other key topics. We delivered on our commitments, improved margins and progressed on our restructuring efforts in EMEA. Earlier in the year, we had quite a steep hill to climb, given the backend loaded nature of our forecast and plan. Looking back on the year, I’m pleased we were successful in delivering on the commitments we made to our shareholders in terms of earnings growth, free cash flow and 4Q profitability in EMEA. Our improved margins this quarter are proof that our business strategies are continuing to resonate with the market as we continue to transform the company into a more software and services led business. As proof of our restructuring efforts in EMEA, we generated more than $5 million in operating profit despite an 18% revenue decrease in the fourth quarter. This is the result of the improved quality of EMEA’s revenue providing us with continued confidence in our restructuring strategy in the region. We are on target to achieve modest profit in 2012, assuming a relatively stable banking environment. Now to review our financial results; turning to slide 17. Total revenue was $850 million up 7.5% from the fourth quarter of 2010, with a 2% negative currency impact mainly driven by the Brazilian real. For the quarter product revenue increased 9.4% and service revenue increased 5.5% with solid growth in financial self-service especially in the Americas and Asia Pacific. For the full-year revenue was up slightly from 2010 with a decrease in product revenue of 3.5% and an increase in service revenue of 3.9%. Excluding the cyclical Brazil Election Business, product revenue would have been flat. All-year revenue includes a net positive currency impact…

John Kristoff

Operator

Thanks Brad. Now, before we go to questions, I just want to take a moment to remind everyone that our Investment Community conference in coming up next week February 22nd, and 23rd in New York. So if you haven’t already signed up, I’d encourage you to do so now. And with that, Tom if we could take our first question.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. (Operator Instructions). We will take our first question from Kartik Mehta with Northcoast Research. Kartik Mehta – Northcoast Research: Good morning Tom and Brad. Tom, I wanted to ask you a little bit about the integrated services contract you recently signed, and I guess, I was more interested, now you’ve had some great success in Brazil, had great success in North America, and I’m wondering is this model to something that you can port to other countries or is this a model that only works in a few countries and that’s where you will focus on?

Thomas Swidarski

Management

Kartik, we firmly believe this model works everywhere in the world. I think the adoption in different parts of world will be very different and as you see right now as the financial institutions in the North American continent were coming out of their financial crisis looking to take dramatic costs out of their operation. It’s begun to accelerate very quickly here. Likewise, I think there is opportunities in other parts of the world as we continue to build our infrastructure and we’ve begun to setup IS centers around the world. Even in a place like China where it’s very early on and we only have like – there are one or two relatively small customers there build our capabilities and hone that and for it to be a model that we used for our sales stand point, it’s important as well. So we see a lot of advantages there. It’s also predicated upon a strong service organization in understanding how the service operation works. So for us that’s the key pillar that we’re putting across the world. And we think the backend systems that we’ve built in Brazil, in the United States and also have now in India can be applied everywhere in the world. So we feel very good about that ability and sustainability of that over the next 5 to 10 years. Kartik Mehta – Northcoast Research: And then on the security side of the business Tom, it sounds like you’re having a good success on the electronic side. Do you see a need to acquire some companies, so you can continue the success and add some feature and functionality or are you at a point where you have enough of that and it’s just a matter of now executing on some opportunities?

Thomas Swidarski

Management

I think the way I’d approach it is this way. The 2012 we look to be a breakout year for security. So the second half of the year we expect to see electronic security really to start to demonstrate some growth both on using the IS concept and the sales focus we have in the financial industry. We have won several, what I’d call, meaningful contracts to validate our approach there and that includes monitoring in all sorts of the services side of the business. As we do that I think we would be looking for some potential acquisitions maybe medium size or small $20 to $50 type acquisition to help accelerate that growth. But I feel regardless of we do an acquisition or not we’ve got our focus, we got the capabilities, and we are seeing early results in that regard and certainly when you look at the whole security category, the physical security piece continuing to come down masks some of that. But underneath that, as we talk at the Investor Conference next week, you will see – you will understand a little more about the strategies and the kind of successes we’re having which gives us pretty good confidence relative to the security business. And then the last thing I’d add that I talked about on my script is don’t underestimate the power of the security and the sophistication of that, that help us on IS, on the ATM side. That was a big factor in the TD decision process in terms of our understanding of physical, logical, and electronic security bring those together and impacting both the network, but also other assets as well. So that’s how I think about the security space. Kartik Mehta – Northcoast Research: And then just a last question Tom. Do you expect – revenue expectations for Europe, obviously that business is turning around and you’re going to – it’s going to be profitable for 2012. I’m wondering what that assumes in terms of revenue expectation?

Thomas Swidarski

Management

Yeah, so Kartik, that really doesn’t have any real revenue growth in it. I mean, we’re looking at flat plus or minus one kind of thing, so relatively flat there. Our whole goal relative to the restructuring was to get ourselves organize better, to make sure that the revenue that we do get is more profitable and in the right places, and that we’re associated with the right institution. So that’s really the essence there. We think by doing that we’ll get better quality of revenue, better quality of earnings and we expect modest profitability in 2012 as a result of the continuation of that effort.

Kartik Mehta - Northcoast Research

Analyst

Thank you very much.

Operator

Operator

And we’ll take our next question from Matt Summerville with KeyBanc.

Matt Summerville - KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc

Analyst · KeyBanc.

Good morning, couple of questions. Tom you mentioned in North America you expect the order momentum you’re seeing that continues through mid-year or thereabouts. What are customers at this point, if anything saying about the back-half of the year, saying about their spend, post this ADA, I am going to call it a deadline for lack of a better word, but we all know its not really a deadline. What are they saying about their level of spend once we kind of get beyond ADA and I guess; how do your incoming order rates and revenue that you’re generating in the small bank market compare to the prior cycle peak?

Thomas W. Swidarski

Analyst · KeyBanc.

Yeah, Matt, we’re spending as you might imagine a lot of time on that very question. We continue to feel very strong relative to the activity after the compliance ADA, PCI piece gets rolled out. As you say, it’s not a hard drop fast deadline there; so we expect really through the first half of the year to see continued activity relative to just those pieces as well. But I think the encouraging piece underneath that, that we’re seeing is, a lot of people have upgraded for ADA and PCI, but the deposit automation and IS activities, as I’ve mentioned. I mean we doubled shipments here in the fourth quarter compared to last year our order rates were exceedingly strong even compared to very high levels prior. So we expect them to continue pretty well because that deposit automation activity, as we look at the space, we think has a lot of runway left in it, and all the regional bank activity and all the visits we have are very squarely focused on that. That then leads into the discussion on IS, and really IS takes us into all the services surrounding that; so I feel very good about all the level activity throughout 2012 from an order flow standpoint.

Matt Summerville - KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc

Analyst · KeyBanc.

As we think about, you mentioned in Q4 having a favorable geographic mix, customer mix; as we think about 2012, is there any reason that, that doesn’t continued based on what you have in your order book now?

Thomas W. Swidarski

Analyst · KeyBanc.

No, I’d expect that, that general trend to continue in 2012.

Matt Summerville - KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc

Analyst · KeyBanc.

And then just lastly in Asia Pacific, is pricing actually getting worse of the magnitude of degradation that you’re seeing?

Thomas W. Swidarski

Analyst · KeyBanc.

Yeah, I’d say Matt that, you would say, I think that the pricing environment we’ll kind of look at that every which way from Sunday, large orders anywhere in the world you see pricing. But you would say across the board in Asia, the pricing activity and the level of competition there on the hardware side continues to deteriorate. So we monitor that on a quarterly basis; we review it on our monthly reviews with each region of the world, but I’d say that trend has continued and hasn’t abated. At some point it will, and we’ll be thankful when we hit that point, but we haven’t seen it yet.

Matt Summerville - KeyBanc Capital Markets Inc

Analyst · KeyBanc.

Thanks, Tom.

Operator

Operator

We’ll take our next question from Zahid Siddique with Gabelli & Company. Zahid Siddique - Gabelli & Company: It’s on your guidance, you’re guiding to a range of $2.30 to $2.50; that compares against $2.31 if you exclude the valuation allowance in 2011. So my question is; why is that number $2.30 to $2.50 not $2.80 to $2.90 or $3; why such a low growth over 2011, what are the factors behind that?

Thomas W. Swidarski

Analyst

Lets flip to the – what slide do we've that on?

Bradley Richardson

Management

32.

Thomas W. Swidarski

Analyst

Do you want to start?

Bradley Richardson

Management

Yes, Zahid, I think, if you –

Thomas W. Swidarski

Analyst

Slide, 32 I think is the -- good place to begin.

Bradley Richardson

Management

I think on slide 32, what you can see is, again if you excluded the Brazil valuation allowance; but if you just normalize our tax rate to 28% and apply that to the 2011 earnings you get about $2.20 per share; so on a constant tax rate basis we’re expecting a growth from $2.20 to either $2.30 to $2.50. And you can see again on slide 32, there certainly are some positive things that we’ve talked about in terms of the revenue growth as well some of the mix issues that Tom, just spoke to, and certainly the positive impact of EMEA and all the restructuring that we’ve done there, which is paying dividends, couple of headwinds that we’re facing, that we’ve been upfront about is certainly our pension expense, just what's happened to the discount rate. And then a significant variable on our guidance for next year is the level of orders that will come from the Brazil Election Authorities, as Tom mentioned in his remarks, we’ve got an order for 90,000 units, but a firm order was placed for 35,000 units, so there’s -- we're not exactly sure how much the Election Authorities will take, so that’s a variable in our overall guidance. So again strong tailwinds, two headwinds, one is being the pension expense and two, being the variability in the Brazil voting revenues and associated profits. Zahid Siddique - Gabelli & Company: And the Brazil voting EPS can range between $0.05 and $0.15, assuming revenues will be $60 million to $90 million range?

Bradley Richardson

Management

Yeah, that’s the decline versus – that’s the range of decline versus 2011 because 2011 we had roughly about $75 million in revenue from voting, just from the voting side, and a little over 115,000 units. So, again, we’re projecting the overall units and revenues to be down in 2012, having an EPS impact of between $0.05 and $0.15 per share.

Thomas Swidarski

Management

And Zahid, if I can add on to where Brad kind of explained there, so if you think last year, we had 120,000 units in voting and you look at our guidance here, we’re assuming the 35,000, which is the firm order what we’ve is kind of in the low-end, the top-end would be the 90,000, that’s the possibility we could hit. So, it’s somewhere in there that its the difference in terms of how much we’re going to be below last year and that’s what the range of down $0.15 and down $0.05 on EPS, it relates to. So, it’s kind of pretty straightforward in that regard. Zahid Siddique – Gabelli & Company: Right. Even if -- even then we exclude all of that, why wouldn’t the EPS be higher than the 230, I guess even the 222 number that you give out with the normalized tax rate?

Thomas Swidarski

Management

Well, the -- I think as Brad was indicating, between pension, between the pricing pressures in Asia-Pacific and really you’ve got some unknown such as fuel and other things that really impact us, we think right now, we’re prudent in terms of the 230 to 250 and as we go through the course of the year depending up on the level of activity and there is a lot of orders yet we need to win, to achieve this, we would adjust accordingly, but we think this is the right place to start for the beginning of the year, for us. Zahid Siddique – Gabelli & Company: Okay. And then, did you buyback any shares in Q4 and what’s the plan for 2012?

Thomas Swidarski

Management

Yes, we did, we bought back about 200,000 shares in the fourth quarter. And as I mentioned, the Board authorized an incremental 2 million shares to our total outstanding authorization, right now, its 2.4 million shares. And what we’re going to do is as I put in my prepared remarks is we’re going to be opportunistic in exercising that share purchase program over multi-period. So, we’ll be opportunistic as we look at our alternatives for our cash and also look at potential discontinuity that might take place in the marketplace from time-to-time. Zahid Siddique – Gabelli & Company: Okay. And last question on the security business of the $600 million in revenues, roughly, how much is electronic security and where are some of the products within that?

Thomas Swidarski

Management

So, on the electronic security side, it’s probably about 60% or -- is it 60% or 55%?

Bradley Richardson

Management

It’s about 55%.

Thomas Swidarski

Management

Okay, 55% of the electronic, then 45% will the physical side, that includes both product and services. In terms of the product offering, there are probably some of the key anchors that I’d point you to, Zahid, when you think about it is really on the services side. So, we’ve got the monitoring center here in North America and several monitoring centers in other locations as well. What we in fact are monitoring, say, alarm, fire and other things that are attached to both enterprise-wide security as well as bank branch-based security. The other piece I’d point to is, on the electronic security side, the integration piece is very important. So, we don’t necessarily manufacture any of the cameras or any of the access-control system, but we, much like an ATM network tie all that together either they monitor it or we monitor ourselves. So, we pretty much focus on both the enterprise-wide system, which would be the big facilities like United Nations or World Trade Center and all the services that flow from that or in the banking space, it would be regional banks that have maybe 20 or 40 or 60 or 80 locations and possibly do all the monitoring for them as well as services and integration. And when we’ve the Investor Conference next week, we’re going to really have a breakout session to go into this in great detail to give you a lot of color on the capabilities there as well as the product offerings as well as the opportunities. Zahid Siddique – Gabelli & Company: Thank you so much.

Operator

Operator

And we’ll take our next question from Gil Luria with Wedbush Securities.

Gil Luria - Wedbush Securities

Analyst · Wedbush Securities.

Yes, good morning. You’ve given a lot of very useful metrics and numbers around the success in the U.S., but could you help us focus in what was revenue growth for the U.S. ATM business in the fourth quarter? What do you expect that to be in 2012?

Thomas Swidarski

Management

Yes. So, Gil, the U.S. financial self-service revenues, excluding the security revenue grew at about 30%. The overall North American revenue was up about 13%, but with the decline in the security side, the FSS revenue was up about 30%.

Gil Luria - Wedbush Securities

Analyst · Wedbush Securities.

For 2012?

Thomas Swidarski

Management

No, I was answering your question for the fourth quarter.

Gil Luria - Wedbush Securities

Analyst · Wedbush Securities.

Yeah. And what do you expect that business to do in 2012?

Thomas Swidarski

Management

I just speak to the total FSS revenue for the corporation. We’re expecting 5% to 8% total worldwide growth. We don’t breakout the North American component.

Gil Luria - Wedbush Securities

Analyst · Wedbush Securities.

Sure. And then on integrated services, it’s been a very good theme, and you took a big leap forward now with the TD deal, can you remind us when you look at a deal like that, the five-year – big five-year integrated services deal, what the increment on revenue is? So – how much more revenue you’re going to get over this five-years versus if you just sold the ATMs? And then, same thing about the margins, what – how did the margins compare over five-years and how do they trend over that five-year timeframe?

Thomas Swidarski

Management

Okay, let me start with that Gil, and make sure I get to all the various pieces. So, yeah, let me start with the normal contract and then may be I’ll get to TD, why we think TD is so important. In a normal contract, probably as part of the integrated services, you get a piece of hardware, you get service and then you get services, and on a normal contract the breakdown would be the services pieces maybe 15% to 20% of the total value of the contract. Toronto-Dominion is slightly different. In Toronto-Dominion’s case, probably 50% of the revenue is associated with software and the services side. The hardware piece maybe only 20% of it and then you’ve a service contract that goes along with it. So, some of the key factors there that I mentioned was, first of all, Toronto-Dominion have the split network, it’s not all Diebold technology, so they’ve other technology in there. So, the piece of a contract that we’ve relative to hardware is just on the Diebold piece. So, if there is an opportunity there, not in this contract that if we perform well, and someone else isn’t, it’s easier to replace someone else now because you’re in there for five years. We’re in the backend system using the OpteView Resolve tools managing the entire network and the performance of their network. So, it’s our desire to improve every aspect of performance. To do that, OpteView Resolve understanding what’s happening in the terminals and the software to manage that and the security around that is all our responsibility. Thus the outsourcing piece of the software and services being 50% is very encouraging to us. Those are generally split over five years, but the software and services tends to grow in the latter years…

Gil Luria - Wedbush Securities

Analyst · Wedbush Securities.

That’s great. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

We’ll take our next question from Paul Coster with JPMorgan. Paul Coster – JPMorgan Chase & Co: Yes, thank you for taking my question. First one relates to the seasonality of the business. You said that we should expect similar seasonality to 2011, though you also said that security will be a bit backend loaded. So should we just feel even more pronounced in our expectations around that segment with more backend loaded?

Thomas W. Swidarski

Analyst

No, I don’t think it will be more backend loaded than this year. I think what we’re saying is the; we’ve come into this year, there’s a lot of activity that will happen in the first half, so our quarters will be slightly different, its just when you look at it overall you would say its close to more normal seasonality, where you’d say maybe the second half of the year it will 60%, first half of the year is 40% or 65%-35%. This year I think we were like 75%-25%. So even though security would be more backend loaded, we've a lot of activity going on in the first quarter and first half of the year from contracts that need to be fulfilled, so I think more in terms of 40% first half of the year EPS, 60% second half of the year. Paul Coster – JPMorgan Chase & Co: Thank you. Tom, in your prepared remarks you talked about strong order activity even from nationals, so let me singled that – them out. What is the nature of the business you’re getting from nationals who, many of us would have expected to have completed their upgrades by now?

Thomas W. Swidarski

Analyst

So the way we look at it; and the primary driver is really deposit automation and integrated services. So when we look at it, I really separate the top-three banks from the next 20 banks and you have kind of the next 1,000, you have the rest of them. But when we’re talking about the big players, it’s really the top 25 banks in United States, so when you start going down that list up to the top three, there’s two or three other major player’s right there that we think we’re in very good shape with and we’ve started to see some activity, so many of those have a long way to go relative to the deposit automation. So we think there’s a lot of activity that it can take place there, as well as in the regional bank space over the next several years. So these won't be just 2012 rollouts, we expect these to happen over multiple years. We’ve been in heavy test mode and small pilot rollouts with several of these and we would expect that to really start to see some type of order activity in the second - third quarter and rollouts to begin in the fourth quarter into next year. Paul Coster – JPMorgan Chase & Co: And my last question is, do you think the upgrade cycle for ATMs in North America, in particular, and for that matter the rest of the world, that the upgrade cycle has tightened somewhat and if so, can you sort of give us some sense of how frequently you expect it to be coming back to your customers now and upgrading either the whole piece of kit or modules within that?

Thomas W. Swidarski

Analyst

Paul, I think the upgrade cycle is absolutely – continues to tighten. And the reason I’d say that, on the front-end is, for instance integrated services, one of the advantages they’ve in the integrated services is they’ve got a commitment to get new technology in a very refreshed, updated, periodic manner. So the more that goes to IS, the more that people are going to be upgrading around the 5, 7 year timeframe. From an overall market standpoint, maybe I’d say up through last year, if you went back several, many years ago, upgrade cycles took place every 15 years, then I’d say it moved over the last 5 to 10 years in the neighborhood of 12 to 10 years, and now I see it coming under 10 years. And I think that’s globally as a result of deposit automation, the technology, then you talk about 4G and other things you can do to help improve or upgrade the capabilities or now that people are on deposit automation, you want to refine that like you did to dispenser over time. So for me, I think the number is going to be under 10, the more we move to IS, I think that number gets closer to 7; so somewhere between 7 and 10 years I think becomes the more of the normal, I think the bigger banks might even be more aggressive than that globally. So that’s how we’re thinking about it. Paul Coster – JPMorgan Chase & Co: Okay, thank you.

Operator

Operator

We’ll take our next question from Julio Quinteros with Goldman Sachs.

Roman Leal - Goldman Sachs Group, Inc

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

Good morning. This is actually, Roman Leal in for Julio. I guess, the first one on guidance, can we perhaps try to gauge how much the growth in FSS orders in North America could be, above and beyond the regulatory compliance? And maybe help us, I don’t know if you can share, just kind of a backlog number or how much of your revenue guidance for 2012 is kind of orders that you already have in the books and how much is coming from order activity there, you’re expecting in the first half 2012?

Thomas W. Swidarski

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

I can't give you that, as an effect, I don’t think I know that, because we’ve been trying ourselves to decipher between, if somebody’s placing an order for ADA, PCI, is this a moment on the upgrade cycle, so for me -- once the deadline passes and we see the order activity after that we’ll be in a much better position to distinguish between the two. Our sense is, that there are a lot of people that were moving, decided to move quicker as a result of having a deadline out there, but quite a few of those folks did not actually move to complete deposit automation or did a component of it. So then you get in a situation where we’ve got a lot of customers to be able to go back to and upgrade them to full deposit automation or potentially IS as kind of – as we move forward. But my sense is there is a long runway yet for deposit automation in the regional bank space over the next several years, it has nothing to do with compliance. Compliance may have accelerated a little bit of the activity and decided to do everything at once, but as banks are getting little healthier in the United States, they’re deploying capital again relative to this network, this valuable network and the fact that they’re moving transactions off the teller line and changing that branch and allowing the ATM to handle cash, checks, and everything else. All of a sudden you’ve made a big dent in terms of the ability to really address their cost structure. So we see good underlying trends for 2012 and maybe by the middle of this year we will have a much better insight as to what that’s going to look like to the next 18 months after that.

Roman Leal - Goldman Sachs Group, Inc

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

Okay. And do you have – what the current mix of software and services revenue is? And what do you have – and do you have long-term target for where you want that to ultimately go?

Thomas W. Swidarski

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

Well, our long-term target relative to – it include service and services as to have the recurring revenue streams in the neighborhood of 75%. So when you look at our numbers today, they’re at slightly over 50%, somewhere in that range. So we know where we want to get to long term, we know how to get there. The good news for us is that number may not move as quickly if we got huge product orders. So we can live with that. But that doesn’t change the track of, for instance, in the TD kind of conversation more of its mix to services, and we see that across the board on all of our IS agreement. Part of that has to do with the big change we’ve made over the last several years with our selling organization. Part of it’s improving, you’re selling organization your capabilities of your own folks, so that you are able to get out in front of this. And that’s why the security piece comes so important because that logical security both on the ATM and the security side is all based around services. So for us there is a lot of capability growing internally to enable us to do that and we are going to gain continued confidence, but our vision and our goal and very crystal clear as to what we’re driving to.

Roman Leal - Goldman Sachs Group, Inc

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

Okay and last one from me. The push to EMV or getting EMV adopted in the U.S., can you help us kind of understand how that potentially impacts you and have you had any conversation in those very early stages right now?

Thomas W. Swidarski

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

Yeah, those are very early stage. They have been so focused on ADA and PCI compliance. At some point you would think the U.S., one of the last bastions in the world need to be on EMV. But again there is a lot networks, a lot of people involved in that discussion, and the potential -- in regard to that really was similar to what we saw on other parts of the world where in terms of encryption and other things you need in the ATM and the way you handle certain data it needs to be upgraded. So it is not nearly the impact of deposit automation. But again it’s another step towards software and services, which fits very nicely with where we want to go.

Roman Leal - Goldman Sachs Group, Inc

Analyst · Goldman Sachs.

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, we have time for one final question today. It comes from Dan Doliff with Morgan Stanley.

Dan Doliff - Morgan Stanley

Analyst

Hi. A quick question on Europe specifically. How much of the uptick in orders was from an uptick in the market versus an improvement in the competitive landscape for you actually versus NCR for example? Thanks.

Thomas W. Swidarski

Analyst

Okay, so the way I’d do that is we see Europe has really been suffering in total. When we looked at the competitor results, I think they were all down relative to in order standpoint kind of going forward. I mean, we were up marginally in that regard on small numbers. So we feel good about where we’re at, that’s in spite of getting out of countries, then you’ve got for us because the numbers aren’t enormous in Europe relative to our total revenue. You’ve seasonality – you’ve fluctuations quarter-to-quarter, so I’m not too worried about the competitive piece in – from Europe. For us it’s a matter of us getting healthy on the cost structure, being focused in certain countries that we’re now focused on, returning profitability and revenue that drives profit. So for us it maybe different than other folks and if we exit a country, somebody else picks up that revenue, that’s not really my concern. So I didn’t see any numbers from anyone else relative to Europe in the self-service space that suggested anybody made any great progress there. I saw a lot of negatives and so I will stack up pretty well in that environment. I feel good about what we’re doing.

Dan Doliff - Morgan Stanley

Analyst

Okay, great. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

And it was our final question for today. I’d like to turn it back to our speakers for any closing remarks.

John Kristoff

Operator

Thanks, Tom, and thank you all for joining us this morning. As always, if you have additional follow-up questions, please do not hesitate to contact myself or Chris Bast. Thank you and good bye.

Operator

Operator

This does conclude today’s conference. We appreciate your participation. You may disconnect at this time.