Constellium SE (CSTM) Q4 2014 Earnings Report, Transcript and Summary

Good day. Welcome to the Constellium Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2014 Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. [Operator Instructions]. After today’s presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. [Operator Instructions]. Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Paul Blalock, please go ahead.

Thank you, Andrew. Good day, everyone, and welcome to Constellium’s fourth quarter and full year 2014 earnings call. On the call today is our Chief Executive Officer, Pierre Vareille; and our Chief Financial Officer, Didier Fontaine. After the presentation, we will have a Q&A session. A copy of the slide presentation for today’s call is available on our website at constellium.com, and today’s call is being recorded. Before we begin, I’d like to encourage everyone to visit the company’s website and take a look at our financial timings. Today’s call may include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such statements include statements regarding the company’s anticipated financial and operating performance, future events and expectations and may involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties. For a summary of specific risk factors that could cause results to differ materially from those expressed in the forward-looking statements, please refer to the factors presented under the heading Risk Factors in our annual report on Form 20-F. All information in this presentation is as of the date of the presentation. We undertake no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statement as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, except as required by law. In addition, today’s presentation includes information regarding certain non-GAAP financial measures. Please see the reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures attached in today’s slide presentation. These supplement are IFRS disclosures. I would now like to hand the call over to Pierre Vareille, our Chief Executive Officer.

Thank you, Paul. Thank you all for joining us today. Constellium achieved solid 2014 performance of €275 million in adjusted EBITDA, reflecting strong performance in our AS&I and P&ARP segments, offset by headwinds from higher metal premiums and continuing operational headwinds in A&T. Shipments increased 4% to 1.1 million metric tons. And starting with a series, we are now providing additional shipment and revenue disclosure by product line. That new data, which is in the press release and in the appendix of the slide deck, shows the total automotive shipments, including both rolled and extruded automotive were 165,000 metric tons. This means that in 2014, 16% of our total 2014 shipments were automotive products. I will discuss this more a bit later. Revenue for 2014 was €3.7 billion, up 5% nominally, but when adjusted for LME prices, premiums, and currency exchange rates, revenue on a like-for-like basis, increased 2% over last year. Lastly, in 2014, we continued to improve our trade working capital, reducing our base of sale outstanding by 5 days from 25 to 20 as compared with last year. Turning now to Slide 6, total Packaging and Automotive Rolled products shipments of 620 kt were up 4% over last year, with packaging volumes steady. Specialty and other thin-rolled products volumes up 10%, and automotive rolled product shipments up 37%. During the quarter, our Neuf-Brisach facility once again had excellent operational performance. Our Body-in-White growth projects in Europe remained on scheduled with our expansion projects of 27 metric tons in Singen, now on line and on budget. In addition, the 100,000 ton project in Neuf-Brisach France and in the U.S. in Bowling Green, Kentucky are both proceeding on track for 2016. Additionally, strong constraints that are in Body-in-White puts us on track for near term decision to add a second finishing line in the U.S. Lastly, the adjusted EBITDA for the P&ARP segment was negatively impacted by €6 million in 2014 due to increased metal premiums. Turning now to Slide 7, the Aerospace and Transportation segment continues to have solid long-term demand with a majority of our space business contracted under long-term basis. Overall for the segment, shipments were 238,000 tons, down 3% from last year. I’m very pleased to have appointed Laurent Musy to the position of President of A&T, after his exemplary performance in P&ARP over the last seven years. Laurent brings over a 16 years of experience in this industry and his primary focus will be on improving operational performance and addressing capacity constraints. Overall in Q4, A&T results were as we anticipated given the hot mill outage of Ravenswood facility, which reduced our EBITDA by €5 million. Our recovery plans are proceeding as anticipated and we are already making significant progress in reducing the backlog and debottlenecking our aerospace facilities. In addition, the new pusher furnace capacity in Ravenswood is on schedule to be installed, qualified and fully operational in 2016. Lastly, metal premiums impacted A&T results negatively by €8 million for the full year. Turning now to the Automotive Structures, and this is the segment on Slide 8. Demand in the Automotive Structures market remained strong, while the industry market had less growth and continues to become more competitive. During 2014, total shipments grew 9% to 208,000 tons compared with last year with Automotive extrusions volume up 28%. The plant capacity expansion in Michigan we previously mentioned is now complete and we are beginning to increase pollution volume for our North American automotive customers. Our plant expansion and reorganization in China is in progress. We are also pleased to report that Constellium is one of the largest suppliers of structural parts to Ford of the F-150 pick-up truck. We recently announced €23 million investment in Decin, Czech Republic, which will increase capacity of this growing facility by over 20% from 60,000 tons to 73,000 tons when completed in 2018. This investment has previously been included in our Constellium capital expenditure forecast. Lastly, the negative impact of increased metal premiums on the AS&I segment was €9 million in 2014. I will now hand it over to Didier to further discuss our financial results.

Thank you, Pierre, and welcome everyone. On Slide 10, we thought it might be helpful for you to see our 2014 adjusted EBITDA compared to last year. As Pierre has already discussed it, higher premiums and A&T performance were largely offset by strong performance in P&ARP and AS&I, as well as a small lift in foreign exchange rate. Turning to Slide 11, you will also see the Q4 to Q4 comparison were A&T and premiums negatively impacted Q4 by €25 million combined, partially offset by foreign exchange rates and the strong performance in P&ARP and AS&I. On Slide 12, you can see our segment performance in adjusted EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA per ton. The A&T segment performed as we previously indicated decreasing approximately 25% in 2014 producing €91 million in adjusted EBITDA. P&ARP and AS&I were up 11% and 23% respectively, largely due to growth in volume and margins in our automotive initiatives. Turning to Slide 13, you will see Q4 to Q4 segment performance. The A&T segment produced €18 million in adjusted EBITDA in Q4 2014, down 42% from Q4 of 2013. However, despite having hot mill outage, which hurt Q4 adjusted EBITDA by €5 million, results were down only €1 million from Q3 2014. Without the outage, A&T results would have been marginally higher in Q4 as compared with Q3. In Q4, adjusted EBITDA in our P&ARP and AS&I segments were strong, increasing 12% and 23% respectively. Turning now to Slide 14, cash flow from operating activities was €212 million in 2014 compared with €184 million last year. This represents a growth of €28 million or 15% over 2013. The increase in operating cash flow including improvement in net trade working capital help fund the €55 million increase in capital expenditures needed to fund our growth initiatives. Now on Slide 15, our focus on reducing net trade working capital continues to pay off, despite increases in LME and metal premium. Compared with last year, our days sales outstanding improved by 5 days, decreasing from 25 to a record 20 days. And the net trade working capital declined from €221 million last year to €204 million this year. As you can see our effort to reduce trade working capital and flat thunder curve in the use of cash are clearly paying off. Now when you turn on Slide 16, at the end of 2014, our liquidity position remained strong at €1.3 billion and was comprised of €120 million available under our revolving credit facility, €149 million available of factoring facilities, €42 million available under our Asset Based Lending facility, and €989 million of cash and cash equivalents. Our liquidity position was further reinforced by the $400 million and €240 million bond offerings completed in December 2014. In early January, approximately $455 million of our cash were used to pay for the acquisition of Wise Metals, which leaves us with liquidity in excess of €900 million. I will now turn the call back to Pierre.

Thank you, Didier. Turning now to Slide 17, I would like to update you on the Wise Metals acquisition, which closed on January 5 of this year. As you know, Wise Metals expand our portfolio and makes us more globally diversified. With Wise, we have more than doubled our North American sales from 14% to over 30% pro forma for the acquisition. We continue to believe that acquiring Wise was strategically bold move for Constellium; linking our future to the rapidly expanding North American Body-in-White marketplace. As you also know, we financed the acquisition with debt and we expect to consolidate Wise into our results beginning in Q1 2015. We really believe that the acquisition is transformative for Constellium and I can tell you that we are moving quickly to integrate them into our global portfolio. Finally, I would like to add that we expect strong Q1 2015 volume at Wise. On Slide 18, Constellium achieved on [indiscernible] quarter with shipments increasing 4%, revenue increasing 5%, and adjusted EBITDA down 2%. The strong performance in P&ARP and ASI largely offset the issues we discussed in the A&T segment and a negative impact of metal premiums. As I mentioned earlier, in 2014, we expanded our total automotive shipments for both rolled and extruded product by 32%, reaching 165 kt or 16% of our total 2014 shipment. Once we complete our Body-in-White expansion projects, total automotive shipments are estimated to potentially triple by 2022, and may represent more than one-third of Constellium’s total shipments. Our Body-in-White expansion project in Europe and the U.S. are progressing on track. And I’m very happy to say that strongest in our interest we drive near term decision toward the second finishing line in the U.S., as we discussed last quarter. However, as expected our A&T results were disappointing due to continuing operational challenges and capacity constraint. We once again improved our net trade working capital reducing our base sales outstanding by 5 days over last year. In conclusion, we remain committed to our strategy and our focus remains unchanged on our targeted markets in packaging, aerospace and automotive. Thank you for listening today, and thank you for your interest in Constellium. Operator, we will now open the lines for questions please.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from Matt Vittorioso from Barclays Capital. Please go ahead.

Good morning and thanks for taking my questions. I guess the first question on the A&T segment. Just trying to think about how we should be modeling profitability for that segment over the course of 2015, obviously you’ve highlighted the operational challenges there, but I do think that the premiums have started to come down in some areas and obviously you’re working to get the operational issues on track. So, from a modeling standpoint, do you think in 2015 you’ll be able to hold EBITDA per ton at or above 300, how should we think about that in 2015?

Well, first I will like Didier to answer on the EBITDA per ton question, but the first thing I would like to say is that we have started the improvement in A&T a few months ago. What we have already achieved is a significant decrease in our backlog. You remember that I said that we are not satisfying our customers because our capacity was constrained and we were late, and because of that we had quality issues and the challenges imposed, and this is fastest to a very large extent. Second thing is that, all the projects of debottlenecking which we have started on track and because of the pusher furnace in Ravenswood will be on line, qualified, and fully operational in 2016. So, on this front, we are as expected in our plan. Having said that, I have always said that it would last a long time, and it’s not something for which we have I would say results if – significant results in 2015. As far as EBITDA per ton is concerned, Didier?

Yes, just to kill point, premiums are going down, you’re right. They are significantly higher than Q1 and Q2 2014, so there is still a long way to go, we are in the right direction. But these are still some tenths of percent to go on before it start breaking up with – breakeven with last year. As regard to EBITDA per ton, I think that I’m going to just say repeat what we said in Q3 results given what we know, and now is that we are going to be in the range of €300 by ton.

Okay, that’s helpful. Then another modeling question, as you start to combine the Wise Metals operations into your results, as we think about modeling volume for 2015, I presume the Wise volume will go into the Packaging and Auto segment, what sort of the new run rate for that segment as we go forward? I know you mentioned briefly that Wise volumes were shaping up to be very strong in the first quarter, can you give us a sense for what the sort of the new run rate in that segment is?

The first thing is that Wise is uniquely packaging for the time being, so the auto development in Wise will only occur when we will be sure the investment, which we just started. As far as packaging is concerned we will have the quarter – is will be very stronger as said – and much stronger than last year due to new contracts and also due to problem which our competitor had and we took advantage of the program because the customers asked us to deliver more and the teams were able to do so. So, as a consequence of that, the shipments will be significantly higher than last year and just to put that in perspective, the recommendation on the Wise obviously the month of January is in all time recop [ph] as far as shipments is concerned for our plant in [indiscernible].

One last question for me, more of a big picture question. Clearly from a credit perspective and a bondholder’s perspective, you would be spending a decent amount of cash over the next couple of years on growth initiatives, and clearly there is an opportunity in the auto market that can still take the advantage of. Could you just talk about the sort of the customer relationships you have or the customer conversations that you’re having on the auto side that give you confidence to make that investment, you just talked about your position on the Ford F-150, but beyond that what are the other relationships that we should be thinking about or programs that are key to your investment on the auto side that give us comfort that you are spending this money along side or at least with the notion that you have customers behind you that want you to spend that money?

So thank you for the question. The first thing, if you look at traditional studies on aluminum in the U.S. market and so on, it’s accelerating and not slowing down. And of course the F-150 for the product is 55 [ph], sorry, I’m sure you’re aware of the fact that it’s a very well and even better than I think than the expectations of Ford. And as I said several times, it will mean that the older OEMs will have to accelerate, and it’s a long-term trend, it’s not due to – it’s due to regulations obviously, but also aluminum has other qualities, which the consumer in the U.S. is starting to discover, agility, easy to drive, stronger than the steel, and so on and so on. So we are discussing with all the OEMs, if I said – you remember that I said that we must commit to investment in new line and as we are certain to we had sufficient volume, and I said in my presentation that we were very near, close to take a decision on second line, so you can infer from that, that the first line is already full. I mentioned on the fact that so the first line is full, in spite of the fact that it will only get into production in 2016. And so which mean that the first 100 kt, which we have invested already committed and if we have to launch a second line because we are already starting to fill up this second line, which would be – if we decide to launch it in the years to come up and running in 2018. So you can see that there is a significant pressure from the market to – for us to accelerate our CapEx.

And just for those, who are less familiar with the business, when you said the line is full, is that contractual or do those – whether those agreements so far…

It’s commitment, which mean that the contracts are, sometimes it takes years to sign the final contracts, but its commitment. So which mean that we get a part of car for the likes of the model, so the model will be launched in 2016, we have these parts, for instance I don’t know the route or the doors, I don’t know which part and then it means that we are working with the OEM to build up the part and to the specification and so on. So the contract, I cannot show you contracts yet, but that’s usual way these market works. But we have firm commitment, return of course, with a lot of recommendation behind that.

Very helpful. Thanks for your time.

Thank you.

The next question comes from Brian Yu of Citi. Please go ahead.

Oh great, thanks. First question is just on the Euro currency, obviously we have seen that drop wide and that helped you out in the fourth quarter, can you help us maybe try to quantify what your earning sensitivities are given the acquisition of Wise, it’s changes in the Euro?

Brian, I’m Didier Fontaine. Let’s say that an appreciation of the dollar is good news for us, especially with the increased portion of our business throughout in the States. And let’s say that if you compare now 106 [ph] would bring 10 million to 12 million, will be there to us.

And that’s on a full year basis.

Full year basis, yes.

And then the second one is just, going back to the prior question on the auto commitments, you mentioned you’re building out or looking at a second line, what about the Wise acquisition, that’s a much more sizeable investment, is that volume line investment being made with customer commitments in hand already too?

First the line which we are building – if you think that – let’s say for that we launch a new line, so we’re talking 100 kt, plus 100 kt, which is 200 kt. For the time being we buy the hot part, off road products from the resource, and so part of the investments which we’re making at Wise, which is upstream of our lines is already, could already be felt by – part of it by that. So that’s were – which mean that every time we buy a finishing line we need the hot part of the process. And if you remember what I said, what we said when we acquired Wise, it was really the – the idea is to we grabbed the only remaining three hot mill in the U.S. to give us access, fully integrated to this market. Then as far as the rest is concerned, we’re talking 2020, 2022, so we don’t have strong commitments of any customer for this horizon. Again, what we are working on is the external studies, which you can hear on the market. And if you remember what I said, we know and it’s a chance that the industry, the aluminum industry will be the most probably, certainly the bottleneck for the switch from steel to aluminum. What we are feeling from the customers from OEM that they would like to accelerate the switch, they come because they come to get the capacity on the markets. So long answer, but I think I think I covered your question.

Yeah, you did. If I could sneak one more in. Just on the premiums, your European premiums are moving down a lot quicker than what we were seeing in North America, could you provide us with what split your exposure to, how much of it is related to Europe versus U.S. and I’m looking at it more from the amount that you can’t pass-through to customers?

You remember, you have that in mind that 70% of our total business is a pass-through, 20% is a like basis, and 10% was on fixed pricing. The fixed premium or the premium are going down in Europe, but in Euro term they are remaining flat because some time the dollar is appreciating. So for the time being, we are expecting another drop of 20%, 25% to start seeing the first impact for us.

Okay, got it. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Matt Murphy from UBS. Please go ahead.

Hi, just wondering on the P&ARP segment for Q4, what drove the sort of margin pressure, yet revenue is up 28% year-over-year, but EBITDA was only up 12%. Just wondering if that’s mix or what?

Yes, so let’s be careful as well, that when you look at revenue, you include the portion of the LME, which is a pass-through with the customer and doesn’t bring anything to us. Actually in terms of activity, we have not seen a pressure – pressure because P&ARP at a all time high record in term of shipment at 142,000 shipments compared to last year 130,000. What we are seeing is there is no more maintenance period, which is happening generally in Q4, and you always have the seasonality if you compared – if you look at 2013 exactly the same, you have this no more seasonality where you have the no more maintenance, which is happening. It happened as well for the equipment of Body-in-White, extended a little bit, the reason why you don’t find the same EBITDA by ton as you found in Q3. But if you look at last year, the profit is actually the same, actually a little bit better this year, because probably with more Body-in-White.

And then just with your segmented volumes, if I’m reading it right, it looks like 80% of the volumes in that segment are in packaging right now, is that right?

That’s correct.

Okay. And then I’m just wondering now that the offer of Wise had closed, how are you feeling about the balance sheet, would you consider raising equity this year?

We are quite satisfied with the structure of our balance sheet right now to be frank. We have €900 million of liquidity, which we think is very important, which gives us a lot of levy and safety for the future. So we make up our mind one way or the other when – any time, but we have no plan at this stage.

Okay. Thank you.

The next question comes from Dave Gagliano from BMO. Please proceed with your question.

Hi, great, thanks for taking my questions. I have a couple of follow-ups. First of all on the questions earlier regarding the expectations for 2015 margins per ton, in the A&T business, I was wondering if you could talk through the same expectations for the other two segments for 2015, and to the extent given the prolonged look on the contracts, on your side, could you also talk about your expectations for each of the segments for 2016 as well?

On the contracts for 2016, we are working on long-term contracts in all our activities. As you know five years for Packaging and Aerospace and the duration of the platform, which is seven years in Automotive, so the bulk of our business is on the long-term contracts. I can’t give you the figure for 2016 because we know that it will be exactly as it is in 2015 and 2014 just because we have commitments from the customers. So, it’s either take or pay in Packaging most of the time and it is – as far Aerospace is concerned its market share driven. But as we said several times if we could ship more, we would ship more in Aerospace. The program has nothing to do with the contracts, where we have these long-term contracts with our main customers, which – and it’s a program of capacity and debottlenecking in our plants, which we expect to resolve in the quarters to come. Frankly as far as the EBITDA per ton by segment is concerned, we are little uncomfortable to give that right now. It has always been our policy. We think that because A&T is a very specific situation, which is not really business as usual, I would say we owe to the market, but we don’t think this should say for the other segments.

Okay, fair enough. On the, my second – my follow-up question, on the packaging and rolled products comments area around the sequential decline in the fourth quarter in the margins per ton, I look year-over-year and it is obviously, it looks seasonally consistent, but what’s changed year-over-year was obviously the sharp increase in volumes on the automotive side, whereas the packaging business volumes were flat year-over-year. So my question and I would have thought that we would have seen less seasonality, given the increased influence from the Automotive segment. I have two questions. One, should we be expecting similar seasonal issues or variability in the automotive part, the Body-in-White part of the business, number one. And then number two, which is related if not, is there something else that we should be thinking about here in terms of the sequential decline other than seasonality?

I think to answer, you will have seasonality every year because generally the OEMs are shutting down their plants, beginning of December, mid-December, and this is really one we’re doing to annual maintenance and the equipment. So there will be seasonality. Do not forget, do not forget as well that compared to last year, actually you need to discount the premiums impact that each – of 2 million and if you were look at 2 million you are 10% above in EBITDA by ton, so this is reflecting as well. The fact that we are doing in Body-in-White compared to last year.

Okay, that’s very helpful on the year-over-year basis. I appreciate that on the premiums. What was the sequential impact from premiums?

Sequential, I think on the automotive you have less than 1 million in Q3 and you have 2 million in Q4.

€2 million in Q4.

Always higher just as the previous year.

I’m sorry. Can you tell me, what was the sequential impact from premium on packaging and rolled products in Q4 versus Q3?

1 million more.

Okay, great. Thank you.

The next question comes from Justine Fisher from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Good morning.

The first question I have is on the CapEx spend, I know you guys didn’t spend a lot of time on the CapEx budget, you have previously released numbers that indicated over 400 million for the next couple of years, it was 400 million, 450 million and then 350 million in 2017. So I was wondering if there was any change to those numbers and then as a follow-up to that, you guys clearly have a strong liquidity position now, but if for whatever reason the cash is not able to fund the CapEx, do you have a preference for a revolver draw or for maybe doing additional secured debt, the Wise entity or what’s the company’s backup plan if cash is not enough to fund CapEx?

The first thing on the first part of the question is that as far as the CapEx is concerned, the total CapEx, which we have announced will be respected. So what would change evidently is a phasing because it can be late or ahead, depending on how you develop your equipment and so on, but at this stage it’s too early for us to say and we don’t see any reason to say it – or the same that when we disclose it in the market. But again, the total will not change, only the phasing could change, but at this stage, we don’t see any reason for that.

As regard to financing, I think you know, all our model is based on the fact that at any point of time we will have a minimum of €260 million of liquidity available. So what we think is first, we are in excess of €900 million of liquidity at that stage. I think – if you have a look at some point of time will come late, and I think it will depend on the market, I cannot give you a view today, we don’t see it on the short-term, I think we are happy with the prospect of the – of a cash profile, we’re happy with the capital structure. So time will say, but today there is no specific plan, because I think we are comfortable whatever liquidity, to reach our level of commitment in term of CapEx.

Okay, thanks. Then just one other on the mid-west premium. I know you mentioned – you guys have mentioned several times how you exposure to that breaks down, but have you looked to renegotiate in your contracts, your mid-west premium exposure over the last couple of months, such that your exposure to it might change going forward or has the way your contracts were pretty much stayed the same and you’re just kind of brought it down as grow it up?

I will answer directly to your question. The six premiums we have are looked until 2016, and we do not intend to negotiate, they will be renegotiated in 2016. Otherwise, yes we have been renegotiating, whether it’s in Europe or in the U.S., weaker customers [indiscernible] directly or like basis.

Great. Thank you very much.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Harpreet Anand from Oak Hill Advisors. Please go ahead.

Hi, I think the FX question was asked earlier, but that’s with regard to the EBITDA. On a cash flow basis, just given the amount of CapEx that you’re spending in Euros into the Wise assets, how do you think about that in terms of the change in FX rates, relatively to what CapEx numbers were previously put forward?

Not dollar terms, in Euro term it will be lower. We are surfacing this equipment not only from the U.S. of course you can imagine, which will at the end of the day reduce the total cost.

Okay. Got it. Okay.

I would like to, just as a follow-up add to that, the second line we discussed several times, this – the corresponding CapEx is included in what we announced previously.

Got it. Thank you.

That’s part of the Wise development CapEx.

The next question comes from Josh Sullivan from Sterne Agee. Please go ahead.

Just more of a high level question, what is Constellium’s take on lower price of fuel and demand for aluminum vehicles, and maybe if you could break that up, just in perspective in Europe and North America?

As far as North America and Europe is concerned, aluminum is there since decades I would say. It’s linked not only on fuel consumption because in Europe people are looking at GDT, the sportiveness if you make say of the cars and aluminum had some industries, as I said before. So there is chance in Europe. So we see the market in Europe continuing to grow. Most of the new cars, which by the three German OEMs are more aluminum content and it’s a trend which is here since long time. So in Europe, the growth in aluminum will not be as staggering as in the U.S. because it’s already there, and it’s not directly linked to the regulation. As far as the U.S. is concerned, it’s linked to the regulations. We are – most specifically to the CAFE regulation, which are international agreements. So you cannot always dream of I would say coming back and deciding suddenly that the regulations should be lifted, but it’s not a pure American decision, and second, you would destabilize the whole economy if you were to do that because all the OEMs are already embarking on the aluminum product. So we don’t believe that the cheaper oil or any political changes and so on will change everything on this. Even if the oil is cheaper people there want – they keep purchases higher mileage vehicles and light weight will continue to increase. In one word, we don’t fit anywhere the fact that the trend which we are looking at could change.

And then just what are your thoughts on the combination of Ball and Rexam, I mean do you see any disruptions to your market?

No, we see that we are global, we are delivering – Ball, Rexam, so their current contract, it doesn’t change anything. As you hear, that the merger will be in one year from now, but not in 2015. Again, it doesn’t change anything because in terms of our long-term contracts would remain unchanged.

The next question comes from Curt Woodworth from Nomura. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon.

It seems like the debottlenecking efforts are doing pretty well in A&T, and I know you’ve got some AIRWARE, of course this year, so can you just comment on what you think is a reasonable volume outlook for that division for this year? A&T volume?

A&T volume will increase in 2014 evidently. Since as far as when we debottleneck and sees the demand is there, so we can ship more, so their volumes will increase. Just to explain what we have, the volumes which we have on the long-term contracts, which we have to have on it obviously. As I said several times, above what we expected, we didn’t make the right investments to deal with this volumes and with the consequence of that we have lost opportunities to go into the spot market, we’re losing opportunities which are here, but which we could attend – would take if we had more capacity. So when we started debottleneck immediately we tend to make – take more volumes. But again 2015, you know what we said several times 2015 I would say is a turnaround year, you will see the impact much more – the next year.

Okay. Then just in terms of Wise, when you guys completed the deal you’re talking about, EBITDA this year around $140 million, but it seems like volumes are better, probably because of the destruction, so do you see upside to that direct and how should we think about the financial impact of the volume benefits you’re receiving this quarter.

Currently, it’s too early to say, we are – we have very great volumes in Q1, you don’t know if the [indiscernible] will involve. So frankly, what I can say that we are confident with $140 million at this stage. I would not want to read expectations beyond this year.

Okay, great. Thank you.

And the last question comes from Dave Gagliano from BMO. Please go ahead.

Hi, I just have another follow-up to the discussion, regarding the longer-term Body-in-White opportunity. I’m just wondering, since, obviously it looks to me like a significant capital investment over the next year, plus the acquisition price, and no contracts in place, which makes sense, it’s too far in the future. In the highly unlikely event that whatever reason, high strengths, steel comes back, five years from now things change for whatever reason. What is the backup plan? What can be done with that Wise capacity, if by chance the demand isn’t quite where you think it’s going today?

So again, I think we – signs are already against – but anyway, Wise, and one of the strengths of the acquisition is leader in the packaging business, the packaging business is a key there. We have long-term contracts on packaging business and in our view what would happen in that case is that it would stick with packaging, which is a little way to tell you that if and it’s a, if which is certain in my view in our view, I mean the view in the market, the market automotive needs what we think that we need then the packaging there will be some tension in the packaging.

Okay. That’s helpful, I just wanted to touch the water a little bit on back up line. Thank you, I appreciate it.

[Indiscernible] the plan, the CapEx is on the three years, so you can always delay from the CapEx, so you can always do something. And the maintenance CapEx of Wise is pretty low. But promptly – when we started the Body-in-White, adventure, I said just remember that we would bring on line in 2015, then they said H1 2015, and now I’m telling you that we’re talking weeks. So it said everything, but it isn’t slowing down.

Got it. All right, good. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Thank you.

This concludes the conference call for today. Thank you for attending today’s presentation, you may now disconnect.