Charles Bradley
Management
In the first one, most of the PE money came in ’12 and ’13, so generally speaking five year windows, ’17 and ’18 becomes where you’re supposed to be out. So the problem is a lot of these guys came in back to these companies, made investments in these companies and they like to see a return. But part of the other problem is to the extent the company rule a little bit more than should have, didn’t quite have the controls in place and the results haven’t been what they want, even to the extent we didn’t make any money, you got a problem. So a lot of those folks out there today are facing that problem, whether its small companies, medium size companies or large companies. And seeing this at least from our point of view across the industry they all have the same problem. In that they try to put together this plan, the plan probably wasn’t execute quite as well as it should have and now they’re standing there with not great results in terms of losses and not great results in terms of earnings, and they’re trying to figure out what to do. And again, in past lives or cycles, we’ve been -- and we've seen how this works and it's difficult. I have huge amounts of pity for everybody who's facing that problem, because how you do, it is very difficult to get out of it, having your back or double down. So that's what's really going on with the companies. In terms of the guaranteed backend, and again we're not 100% sure everyone's doing it, but it's certainly out there on the street a whole lot of folks are. Generally speaking, the best we can figure it pushes the loan to value in the 130 to 140 range, which is something that never in the history of our world have we ever seen. Having said that probably everybody's not doing that and probably every loan is not like that, but when you're doing the fast math of claiming in -- if you think about it, if you're adding $2,000 or $3,000 in our world, our average amount finance is $16,000. So if you want to add $2,000 to that or $3,000 to that, you're talking about 15% and 20% right on top instead of extending here at 110-115, you're in the 130s probably for sure.