Good morning, and welcome to the 2022 Fourth Quarter Earnings Conference Call, hosted by BNY Mellon. [Operator Instructions] I will now turn the conference over to Marius Merz, BNY Mellon, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to our fourth quarter 2022 earnings call. As always, we will reference our financial highlights presentation, which can be found on the Investor Relations page of our website at bnymellon.com. I'm joined by Robin Vince, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Emily Portney, our Chief Financial Officer. Robin will start with introductory remarks, and Emily will then take you through the earnings presentation. Following their remarks, there will be a Q&A session. Before we begin, please note that our remarks include forward-looking statements and non-GAAP measures. Information about these statements and non-GAAP measures are available in the earnings press release, financial supplement and financial highlights presentation, all available on the Investor Relations page of our website. Forward-looking statements made on this call speak only as of today, January 13, 2023, and will not be updated. With that, I will turn it over to Robin.

Thank you, Marius. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. Before Emily takes you through our quarterly results, I'd like to make a few broader comments on our performance in 2022 and on some areas of focus for 2023. As you can see on Page 2 of our financial highlights presentation, we reported earnings per share for the full year of $2.90, down 30% compared to the prior year, and a return on tangible common equity of 13%. Excluding the impact of notable items, we reported earnings per share of $4.59, which was up 8% year-over-year, and a return on tangible common equity of 21%, reflecting our solid underlying performance against the backdrop of a complex operating environment in 2022. Our results this year included several notable items; for example, those related to Russia in the first quarter and the goodwill impairment related to investment management in the third quarter. And our fourth quarter results reflect the impact of a number of decisions that we made to improve our revenue growth and efficiency trajectory moving forward. Excluding notable items, revenues grew a little faster than expenses as we continued to see strength in client activity and volumes, while continuously positioning ourselves to derive meaningful benefit from the upward move in interest rates. Together, these factors more than offset the stiff headwinds from lower market levels. On the back of organic growth in AUC/A, we're continuing our role as the world's largest custodian, and we saw cumulative net inflows in assets under management. Beyond the numbers, I'd like to highlight a couple of areas where I'm particularly encouraged by our performance in 2022. First, our sales momentum, which speaks to the strength of our client franchise and our capabilities. In Asset Servicing, we continued to elevate our client dialogue,…

Thank you, Robin, and good morning, everyone. As I walk you through the details of our results for the quarter, all comparisons will be on a year-over-year basis, unless I specify otherwise. Starting on Page 3 of our financial highlights presentation. Total revenue of $3.9 billion in the fourth quarter was down 2% on a reported basis and up 9% excluding notable items. As Robin mentioned earlier and as you can see at the bottom of the page, our reported results in the fourth quarter included a few notable items resulting from actions to improve our revenue and expense trajectory. Reported revenues included approximately $450 million of net securities losses recorded in investments and other revenue, resulting from a previously disclosed repositioning of our securities portfolio, which I will expand upon later. Fee revenue was flat, as the benefit of lower money market fee waivers and healthy organic growth across our Security Services and Market and Wealth Services segments was offset by the impact of lower market values from both equity and fixed income markets and the unfavorable impact of a stronger U.S. dollar. Firm-wide assets under custody and/or administration of $44.3 trillion declined by 5%. The headwind of lower market values and currency translation was tempered by continued growth from both new and existing clients, and assets under management of $1.8 trillion decreased by 25%. This also reflects lower market values and the unfavorable impact of the stronger U.S. dollar, and again, this headwind was partially offset by cumulative net inflows. Investment and other revenue was negative $360 million in the quarter on a reported basis. Excluding notable items, investment and other revenue was a positive $100 million, a good result reflecting another quarter of strong fixed income trading performance. And net interest revenue increased by 56%, primarily reflecting…

Thank you. [Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Brennan Hawken. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. First, congrats to Emily on your new role.

Thank you.

I'm sure you won't miss our earnings quarterly, but it was a real pleasure to work with you here these past few years. So, I'd love to drill down on the NII expectations. You indicated that it assumes current market rates, but maybe you could please walk us through some of the more specific drivers, primary assumptions and moving pieces that underlie that 20% growth assumption.

Good morning, Brennan. And it's been great to work with all of you as well. So, if you think about the NIR outlook, the first thing I would just mention is that we use the forward curves to as a basis of our projection. So, we don't try to get cute. And as all of you know, for the Fed that assumes another 50 basis points of hikes in the first quarter, probably followed by a pause until the end of the year. The curves outside the US assume about 125 basis points to 150 basis points worth of hikes by both the BOE and the ECB. So, as a result of these curves and rising rates as well as, I would say, all of the actions that we've taken in the securities portfolio, and by that, I don't just mean the rebalancing that we did in December, but we, obviously, positioned the portfolio throughout the year, meaningfully shortening duration, adding floaters, et cetera, so with all of that, we do continue to expect to benefit from significantly higher reinvestment yields. Now tempering that a bit, we do expect deposits to decline modestly, call it, low to mid single digit from fourth quarter average. And finally, as it relates to marginal betas, we would expect them to continue to increase, but of course, more so for non-dollar balances. So that's really what's behind the 20% guide year-on-year. But I would also say there's a lot of uncertainty in the market and certainly, we're prepared for many different outcomes. It will be highly dependent upon deposit levels and there's some upside there if we retain more NIBs.

Great. That's very helpful. Thank you, Emily. Capital accretion was really encouraging this quarter. You guys have the rather large buyback announced and you made some positive comments on it in your prepared remarks, Emily. So, how should we -- AOCI was really, I think, the source of the big surprise from my perspective. How should we be thinking about AOCI accretion if yields remain stable from here? What does that timeline look like?

Sure. So, assuming the portfolio doesn't change and forward rates are realized. The latest -- our latest forecast would expect to recover probably close to 50% of the $2.5 billion of unrealized loss in the AFS portfolio over the course of, call it, 15 to 18 months.

Okay. Excellent. Thank you very much.

Our next question comes from Alex Blostein. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Hey, good morning, everybody, and Emily, congrats again. I was hoping we could start with a question around fixed income markets. There's generally a broad set of bullishness on the outlook for fixed income flows, particularly with respect to ETFs. I'm curious, as a very large servicer of fixed income assets, and you guys just kind of touched that whole ecosystem in multiple different ways, can you help us frame how BK's fees overall and servicing fees specifically could benefit from an improved outlook for our -- from fixed income flows, both mutual funds and ETFs? Is there a particular difference, when it's like inflows versus outflows? Just hoping to get a little more granularity as we think about the fee outlook for '23.

Sure. So, just as we think about the fee outlook, what I would say is just our base case assumption is that there's a relatively soft landing in the U.S., so that would be average equity markets as well as fixed income markets are not that far off from what we've seen averages in 2022. You are correct that our money market platform does benefit that to a degree. Having said that, we do expect some modest runoff in balances as well in money market funds. And what I would also just highlight is that any strength in the fixed income market really does play to the strengths of our investment management business.

Yes, Alex, I -- it's Robin. I would just add a couple of things to that. Just as you think across the breadth of our franchise, and Emily mentioned a couple of them, we have a lot of oars in the water on fixed income generally. So, our asset servicing business is fixed income heavy, that gives rise to a fixed income heavy, security lending business. We have a $1.3 trillion worth of cash on our investment platform. So that plays in the short end of the market, which obviously has an overlap with fixed income as well. We have our Dreyfus money market fund, which has done -- which has performed really quite well over the course of the year in terms of performance and asset gathering. We have our treasury business in terms of our clearance business. We have our treasury market repo business. So, we've got a lot of different opportunities that come from all of this, and we're obviously paying attention to all of them.

Got you. Great. Thanks. And then maybe just my follow-up on operating leverage in the business broadly, and you mentioned, Robin, a number of different efficiency programs that you have in place that sound like they're ramping nicely and just kind of incorporated in your expense guidance for this year. But when you sort of take a step back and assuming that short-term interest rates remain sort of range-bound or whatever the forward curve is forecasting, how are you thinking about the pre-tax margin for the firm as a whole over time? I'm not sure if you're ready to talk about those targets yet, but in the past, you guys were north of 30%. Is that ultimately the goalpost as you think about the ins and outs of your programs, but also what's going on in the top-line?

So, you're right in that we're still working on it. I'm four-and-a-half months into my tenure. We've talked about the strategy reviews. They are ongoing. We've made some good progress. It's true on the business side. It's also true on the function and the support side as well, but we are focused. To your question on margin, we are focused on driving profitable growth which is top line, but with an eye to the bottom line and also just exuding expense discipline through doing the work. We think we've got a high-performing culture, but we continue to drive on things that relate to that. And I think when you look across revenue growth, pre-tax margins and ROTCE, you have the key metrics that we're really using. Now, we are considering a variety of different KPIs, and we look forward to giving you all more transparency on some of those KPIs as the year progresses. And so as we do the work, we're going to come talk to you about it.

Great. Thank you very much.

Our next question comes from Brian Bedell. Your line is open. Sir, please go ahead.

Great. Thanks. Good morning. [Technical Difficulty] great working with you over the years. Maybe you could talk a little bit shift gears a bit to a scenario in which we don't have a soft landing, let's say we do have a recession and a lot of pressure on markets. In that scenario, if we assume that there still is actually pretty good allocation to fixed income, which of course, you would benefit from, can you just talk about throughout your platform, to what extent you would expect to be resilient against that? And some of the areas I'm thinking of or even in deposits where deposit growth could outperform the expectations that you described, Emily? And then, if you could also just remind us on the fee revenue sensitivity to equity market declines? I think, it's 1% plus through every 10%, I think.

Sure. So, a couple of comments there, and I think Robin will add on probably. So, just in terms of our sensitivity overall, our fee sensitivity to fixed income market. Just remember for every 5% or so gradual change in fixed income markets that impacts annual fee revenue to the tune of south $40 million. So that gives you some idea on how to size that. And then, certainly, as Robin pointed out earlier, we have many different businesses that ultimately would benefit from also strength in fixed income markets.

But Brian, let me just add something else. One of the things that -- we're a trust bank, we often get obviously compared to trust banks, and I understand why. But we have a broader portfolio that I think is quite relevant in answer to your question, particularly, and they happen to be higher growth, higher margin businesses for us. So, things like Pershing, things like Treasury Services, our Clearance business, our Collateral Management business, and those really do contribute to the underlying diversification that we have as a firm. And that portfolio helps us with the stability of underlying revenues through different market conditions because they're essentially driven by different things, and so we get a balance for that. Now, on top of that, we're, of course, thinking about how to make sure that we are increasing the mix of the types of revenues that we have as well. So, yes, we have fees. Yes, we have net -- NIR, but we're also powered by transaction volumes, and we're also powered by subscription fees. And so, the combination of these diversification of the businesses and the diversification of the types of revenue streams, we think helps us quite a bit in these different market conditions, and that's why you've seen us, in fact, perform in an effective and relatively stable way through some pretty significant gyrations.

That's great color. And then, maybe, Robin, if you just want to continue on the growth initiatives that you've outlined, Pershing X, the payments venture with digital payments, especially in terms of -- these are definitely long-term investments and trajectories. But maybe if you can sort of think -- or sort of telegraph what you think might be the contribution this year or just outline what you think might be a reasonable organic growth rate -- revenue growth rate for this year?

So, look, we've talked about the fact that these are medium-term initiatives, and they are. The contribution to revenues today from real-time payments is really small. But we do see this as rails of the future, and we see it as creating an opportunity for a connected set of services; think of fraud prevention and account validation and bill pay-related things. So, there's an ecosystem that builds around the actual capability. And we think that that's a significant opportunity for us. You've seen some announcements that we've made. But if I tick through very briefly, and I will try to be quick about it, but through each of our businesses. Look, in Pershing, we've had a strong year of net new asset growth. We talked about it in my prepared remarks. And we think that we'll have growth in the near-term through onboarding the pipeline, and then we've got the medium play of Pershing X. In Asset Servicing, we've been growing sales. And at the same time, we're leaning into the future with things like digital assets, and we're focusing on the expense base as well. So, again, it's something for the near term and for the medium term. In Markets, we're driving with foreign exchange and liquidity and securities lending, and then for the medium term, execution services and new products. In CCM, we expect the evolution that will come from the gradual decant of repo into tri-party, which we think we're well positioned for. In Treasury Services, we're picking up cross-border activity in terms of U.S. dollar clearing and we're playing for the longer term that I talked about with real-time payments. And so, across so many of our businesses, we've got opportunities in the near term, we're focused on executing them, and we're investing for later.

That's great color. Thank you very much.

Our next question comes from Rob Wildhack. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Good morning, guys. I appreciate the color on deposits for 2023. I wanted to ask a little bit more about what you saw in the quarter. Interest-bearing deposits flipped to growth. Wondering what the drivers are there. And on the noninterest-bearing side, that outflow accelerated quarter-over-quarter. So, any more color on either of those would be great. Thanks.

So, deposit balances overall for the quarter were down very modestly as you can see. And most of that was a runoff in non-operational, but NIBs did and still are remaining at elevated levels. So just for what it's worth when we're talking about the trajectory for deposits in 2023, as I said before, we would expect average deposits to decline very modestly, call it, low single digit from fourth quarter averages. And you should expect and we are expecting the large majority of that to be from NIBs because they will probably revert back to about 20%, 25% of our total deposit balances as we've really seen in historical average.

Okay, thanks. And then, Robin, you highlighted healthy growth in Asset Servicing as a priority for this year. That's a business that's well established, sometimes can be more difficult to differentiate. So, what are the kinds of things you can do and you want to do to accelerate growth there?

Well, I'm going to start off on this one, but then I'm going to give it over to Emily because she is going in to run that business and knows it pretty well already from her prior time. But I think there are a variety of different opportunities for us. I mentioned in my prepared remarks that we're really elevating the conversation more into the C-suite of some of these firms, because gone really are the days where we're selling a small component of a service on an isolated basis, we see more opportunities to sell bundled deals with data and digital capabilities, all wrapped up in it. And that we see -- we are getting traction from that. We had a very significant new client that we announced earlier on in the year -- or last year, that is a good example of that type of package sale. So that's one thing. We also have the bottom-line focus. I want to continue to point you at the comments that we've made before that the margin in that business is not acceptable and that we will continue to invest both in the top-line, we'll benefit some from rates, and investing in making the cost of execution cheaper and more efficient in that business. So, it's really a package of all of the things. I don't know, Emily, if you want to add.

Yes, just a few things to add. So, as Robin alluded to in his prepared remarks, I mean, we are winning larger and higher-value deals, but we're also very focused on the profitability of the mandate and the relationship overall. And so that also means we're being more selective even in the RFPs that we participate in. Likewise, we're leaning into higher-growth areas like Alts and ETFs. 20% of the wins that we have seen or -- had a data component, and data is very critical, especially, in the forward trajectory to our clients. And I would say our pipeline is very strong. And the other thing, of course, as Robin mentioned, is we are very, very focused on driving the cost down across the Securities Services segment, inclusive of Asset Servicing for those businesses, which remain pretty manually intensive, so think Transfer Agency, think Fund Accounting. So, there's opportunity there for sure.

Thank you very much.

Our next question comes from Steven Chubak. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Hey, good morning.

Good morning, Steven.

Good morning.

So, Emily, I'm going to ask the question I had asked you 12 months ago, roughly, on the earnings call about Basel IV. We still don't have a proposal, but we know something is coming in early '23. And given his speech had hinted at capital requirements moving higher for the G-SIB cohort, recognizing there is still no proposal, but I was hoping you could just speak to how you're scenario planning for the finalization of Basel III? Whether that has any influence on the potential cadence of future buybacks or just capital management, more broadly? How you see that potentially evolving?

Sure. So, look, we're obviously very involved with regulators in the industry around the conversations around Basel IV. It's true, of course, the introduction of operating or operational risk RWA into the standardized approach would, by itself, drive an increase in our standardized RWAs. When we crunch the numbers, our calcs suggest something a bit less than probably what you've seen for the GSIBs aggregate in the QIS. And there are also -- we do also expect there are going to be some offset for us. So, lower credit risk RWAs and also, we'll probably benefit modestly from the more risk-sensitive market -- the market -- the more risk-sensitive, excuse me, market framework. So, they'll be puts and takes. We'll have to wait, really, until the regulators release their proposed version. And we already -- and we do obviously -- for us, we're always looking at RWA optimization. You can actually see that RWAs came down in the quarter, again from optimization that we have been ongoing, that's ongoing and we've been doing. And I would just remind you, too, that the industry will have time to leg into whatever the results end up being.

Fair enough. And just for my follow-up on expenses. I was hoping you can help us reconcile what the expense guidance for '23 implies for both the op margin and dollars of expense as it relates to the Securities Services segment specifically? It feels like that's the area where there's still some of the most low-hanging fruit, if you will, to drive efficiency gains. And just given the planned efficiency actions, how should we think about that second derivative for expense growth? Should we expect that to steadily improve over the course of the year, where you implement the plan, you start to realize some of the benefits, and the exit rate on expenses, therefore, in '23 should reflect a lower level of expense growth relative to the other quarters?

So, I'll kind of answer that more focused on margin for Securities Services because that's really what we've been talking about and a very critical KPI for us. So -- and I think Robin already said, we are very committed to a 30%-plus margin over the medium term. You'll see we printed in the fourth quarter, margin of about 27%, for the full year that was closer to 21%. In 2023, we will benefit somewhat from NIR. So, higher rates will be partially offset perhaps by a modest decline in NIBs. Also, we are absolutely extraordinarily focused on executing against the revenue growth as well as the efficiency initiatives that we have been talking about. When you think about Securities Services though, I'd also just mention, there's going to be some nonrecurring activity that we enjoyed in 2022 that we won't have in 2023 in Issuer Services in particular. So, kind of net-net, putting it all together, when you look at the margins for Securities Services overall, they're going to be lower than what we printed in Q4, but certainly higher than the full year level. So, we're making progress.

And just the expense growth, on a firm wide basis, whether the exit rate for '23 should reflect some of those additional efficiency benefits that you had cited? I'm just trying to think about the cadence for how we should think about the expense trajectory over the course of the year.

Yes. So, I'm not going to kind of give too much detail on what we expect quarter-on-quarter. I mean, the only thing I would say just and all of you guys know this is that for the first quarter, staff expenses are typically a bit higher due to long-term incentive comp associated with retirement-eligible employees. And of course, the actions we're taking, they're front-loaded, but you'll see that over the course of the year. So, I think, I would just go back to, we are absolutely bending the cost curve. We are expecting to deliver and are very committed to deliver year-on-year growth of about 4%, 4.5% constant currency, and again, that compares to 8% in 2022.

Helpful color, Emily. Thanks for taking my questions.

Our next question comes from Mike Mayo. Your line is open. Please, go ahead.

Hi. Can you hear me?

Hey, Mike, how are you?

Good. Robin, I think you inherited a tough hand here. So, I mean, BNY Mellon historically has had periods when they do a better job controlling expenses, but that typically coincides with periods of slower top-line growth, but you're starting off here, fees were down 3% last year. Looks like your guide for NII implies that's flat with the fourth quarter. So, it's not so much, okay, revenues are slow, you can control expenses so much they've already slowed or they're about to. So, it just seems like your efficiency savings are going to be tougher. And as part of that, this predates you, Robin, but when it comes to notable items or one-time items, you had some this quarter, but if you look over a decade, your notable items add up to $3.5 billion. That's almost a year's worth of earnings. So, the real question here is how can you improve your profit margin and your efficiency ratio and squeeze more out of BNY Mellon when the revenue environment has been tough and you have inflationary pressures? I guess, how confident are you to turn this around in terms of the positive operating leverage on a core basis?

So, Mike, without reflecting on the past in terms of what people have done and how they've done it, I'll just say that we acknowledge that the past decade has been disappointing in terms of our company's broad financial performance. You can look at some spots on the top-line, the bottom-line, expenses, we pick your spot, but we're not comfortable with the broad performance of the company over the past decade. And that's how we've talked to our Board about it, that's how we talk to our employees about it, and we're determined to change that. And so, you're hearing from us, I think, I hope, a determination around changing that outcome. Now to your question, let me take the two parts of the things that you've really talked about. So, first of all, the notable items. And so, we are very, very clear, and we do this in our earnings release and we do it in our prepared remarks, we talk GAAP first. So, you can see the reported numbers and it's very clear and you can judge us on that. But we also want to give you the transparency, and frankly, the insight into the way that we're running the company under the hood. And we think that's why that additional element of disclosure is helpful, but you'll make your judgment based on that transparency and the insights that we're trying to provide. Now, I own that 4% to 4.5% number, 4%, if use the exit rate of currency, 4.5% on a constant currency basis, and that's essentially half of what it was in 2022. And the environment, from an inflation point of view, isn't expected to get any better. We had inflation over the course of the past few months, CPI between 6%-and-change and 9%-and-change, we've still…

Yes, that would be great if you can share more of those metrics over time and how -- what your targets are. The other part of that is your -- you said you have four growth initiatives. You did mention digital assets and -- post the recent debacle. Can you put any concrete metrics or put more meat on the bones as far as where you'd like to eventually get to, or revenues, or what's the endgame, just something more on this whole? It's one of your four key growth initiatives. Just a little bit more color?

Sure. So, I just want to make one comment about the four things that I mentioned and that you're quoting. Those aren't the only growth initiatives in the company. I pick them out because I think they're good and representative examples, but -- and they're different things, and they have different timelines associated with them as well. But there are other things that I haven't mentioned, at least haven't given great as much prominence to, but that could be very interesting to us over time. But specifically for digital assets, it's the longest-term play out of any of the things that we talked about. I expect it to be negligible from a revenue point of view over the course of the next couple of years, it might be negligible for the next five years. But as the world's largest custodian, we are in the business of looking after stuff. We look after $44 trillion worth of stuff. And if there's going to be new stuff to look after, we should be in the business of looking after it. If the way in which we look after stuff, which is the point about the technology changes, we have to adapt to that. And so, we're investing for a future that probably will come to be, but it may not. But if it does come to be, we have to be there. It would be like being the custodian of 50 years ago and sticking with paper and not adopting a computer. That's not going to be us. So, we're investing. We're being cautious. We're being deliberate. And we've got R&D in different parts of the company, and it's measured. But we do think it's important for us to participate in the broader digital asset space.

Great. Thank you.

Thank you.

Our next question comes from Gerard Cassidy. Your line is open. Please, go ahead.

Hi, Emily. Hi, Robin. Emily, on the noninterest-bearing deposits, you mentioned how they are a little higher than normal. I think you said 27% of total deposits, but you do expect them -- I think you said to drop to more normal levels, 20% to 25%. What's keeping them up so high? And second, could they remain maybe higher for longer this year? Or do you see some real trends that, no, they're definitely going to get back to normal?

Great question. And frankly, there is a lot of uncertainty around that. So, look, more generally, as it relates to NIBs, I think -- we think it's -- they're high. They're probably elevated because of certainly some risk-off behavior. The other thing though that I'd really mention is that we've gotten a lot more sophisticated too in just how we manage our deposits and the tools with which we manage our deposits. So, I think there's something to that also as well. We do expect the NIBs to revert to about 20% to 25%, but you're right, I mean, to the extent they remain elevated, that is going to be very helpful and we will have upside to our NIR projection. And look, the only other thing I'd mention is that we've seen significant growth in, for example, Asset Servicing, Corporate Trust, et cetera, which actually those businesses attract NIBs.

Very good. We all know that, obviously, your bank is a fee-based bank, it is not a bank that any of us are concerned about credit quality, but I would just like to get your guys' thoughts. And you had a small provision increase, again, nothing material. And again, I emphasize nobody is really concerned about Bank of New York's credit quality. But with the expectation of a soft recession or a slowdown, whatever you want to call it, are you guys seeing any trends in the loan book that you're just watching maybe a little more closely today than 12 months ago?

So, just as a reminder, and I think you've already alluded to it, the quality of our portfolio remains very high. So, weighted average rating is AA minus. Investment grade is over 90%. NPLs and delinquencies are stable. The only area that, of course, we're monitoring very closely is the CRE portion of the portfolio and the office segment, in particular. At the moment, occupancy and rent collections remain high, but it is an area that we're paying closer attention to.

And what percentage of that the CRE of the loan book is that about, Emily?

It's about 9% of the funded loans.

Great. Thank you.

Our next question comes from Ken Usdin. Your line is open. Please, go ahead.

Hi. Thanks. Good morning. Robin, I know you talked earlier just about the general view for fees to increase and some thoughts on Asset Servicing. Just wondering if you have a view on just what you think organic growth can look like? And also, it's nice to also see some of the movement in the fourth quarter in specifically in Pershing and Collateral Management. Just wondering if you have a thumb nail on what the outlook for those two areas is as well. Thank you.

Sure. So, from an overall fees point of view, we are focused on this internal growth. Forgetting about M&A or any of those other ways to grow, just the blocking and tackling and execution of what we think we can do in the company over the course of the year. We haven't given fee guidance because of the reasons that Emily alluded to, which is there are just so many things going on in the market. There are just too many puts and takes for that to be credible for us so that we are -- but we, of course, have our internal budget, and that's what we've been working through over the course of time. Look, you called out two businesses and those are businesses where we both -- where we think those are bright spots for growth. And so, we expect those to be above the average growth of the company. They're not the only ones that would be above the average, but they are two that would be, and we feel quite good about the prospects for a variety of the different underlying reasons that we've talked about already.

Okay. Very good. And then, just one quick one in terms of that follow-up on the balance sheet mix. Emily, is there anything changing with regards to how you think about the mix of securities that you add from here in terms of as we get towards the peak of the rate cycle, whether you start thinking about putting on more fixed rate versus the floating type, and what that means for the types of yields that you're able to get on your kind of front book investments?

Sure. So, there's a lot in there. So, look, we've been very nimble and continue to be very nimble in terms of managing our portfolio. Bottom-line right now, we're positioned to benefit from higher rates, but I just call everyone's attention to the fact that the duration of our portfolio is the shortest it's been in recent memory, and more than 60% of the portfolio is in available-for-sale. So, we've really retained a lot of flexibility, and we can act very swiftly should the environment ultimately change. And as it relates to reinvestment yields, I guess it was in the second quarter, I believe, in 2022 that reinvestment rates began to exceed roll-off rates. The difference between the two has steadily expanded to about 250 basis points in the second quarter. And when you just think about how much of the portfolio resets at any moment in time, about 40%, as I said, of the securities, or you can see it, 40% of the securities portfolio is floating rate assets. And the duration of the fixed asset securities is about three years. So, you can kind of do the math there.

That’s great. Thanks, Emily.

And our final question will come from Michael Brown. Your line is open. Please, go ahead.

Great. Thank you for taking my questions. Most of them have been answered. But…

Hi, Mike.

Yes, hi, Robin. Hi, Emily. I guess, my question was kind of as we think about further out into 2023, and so, the market is assuming some rate cuts could occur before year-end. As we get -- if we get to that point, what is your view on how deposit pricing performs there, right? Because if your deposit betas were generally higher than the broader banking system on the way up, how do we think about it to the point where we start to see some early rate cuts? Because I guess in that backdrop, it's not an expectation that we're heading back to where we were, just some modest rate cuts. So, how do you think about the deposit pricing in that environment?

Sure. I'll take that. So, we do expect deposit pricing to perform similarly on the way down as it did on the way up. So, we'll get the benefit, of course, because our -- we will get the benefit should rates suddenly start to come down of deposit costs also coming down very quickly. And likewise, I'll just remind you that to the extent that rates start to come down, then AOCI will pull to par faster.

Okay. Great. Thank you for that. And then, just one more on NII. Appreciate the full year annual guidance. As you look at the fourth quarter, it was up about 14% sequentially. Within the annual guidance, any view on how we should think about the first quarter? I know it's a moving target, but any range here just to help us think about the trajectory.

Yes. As I mentioned, the range of outcomes is very wide. So, it's really hard to predict the trajectory in any given quarter. It really is very dependent, probably most specifically on the deposit trajectory. And like I said, if NIBs remain elevated, there's upside there.

Okay. Great. Thank you for taking my questions.

And with that, that does conclude our question-and-answer session for today. I would like to hand the call back over to Robin for any additional or closing remarks.

Thank you, operator. I'd like to close today's call by thanking Emily for her time as our CFO and to congratulate her on taking up her new role, starting February 1 as the CEO of Asset Servicing, which as you know, is our largest business. Emily brings a set of experiences and relationships to this role that are going to be invaluable in driving profitable growth of our client franchise. And finally, I'd like to welcome Dermot McDonough, our next CFO, to the BNY Mellon team. He joined us in November, and he's hit the ground running. I know that you are all looking forward to his first earnings call with him in April. So, with that, I'd like to thank you for your interest in BNY Mellon. And if you have any follow-up questions, please reach out to Marius and the IR team. Be well.

Thank you.

Thank you. This does conclude today's conference and webcast. A replay of this conference call and webcast will be available on the BNY Mellon Investor Relations website at 02:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time today. Have a great day.