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The Bank of New York Mellon Corporation (BK)

Q1 2020 Earnings Call· Thu, Apr 16, 2020

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Transcript

Operator

Operator

Good morning and welcome to the 2020 First Quarter Earnings Conference Call hosted by BNY Mellon. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference call webcast will be recorded and will consist of copyrighted material. You may not record or rebroadcast these materials without BNY Mellon’s consent. I will now turn the conference over to Magda Palczynska, BNY Mellon’s Global Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Magda Palczynska

Analyst

Good morning. Today, BNY Mellon released its results for the first quarter of 2020. The earnings press release and the financial highlights presentation to accompany this call are both available on our website at bnymellon.com. Todd Gibbons, BNY Mellon’s CEO will lead the call. Then Mike Santomassino, our CFO will take you through our earnings presentation. Following Mike’s prepared remarks there will be a Q&A session. As a reminder, please limit yourself to two questions.Before we begin, please note that our remarks today may include forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially from those indicated or implied by our forward-looking statements as a result of various factors, including those identified in the cautionary statement in the earnings press release, the financial highlights presentation and in our documents filed with the SEC, all available on our website. Forward-looking statements made on this call speak only as of today, April 16, 2020 and will not be updated.With that, I will hand over to Todd.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Thank you, Magda and good morning everyone. Before getting into our results, I want to call out the heroic efforts of medical professionals and first responders in the U.S. and abroad. I have doctors in my immediate family, so I am acutely aware of the risks and what they are dealing with. We are also grateful for the extraordinary actions taken by central banks, regulators and governments to minimize the extent possible the financial fallout as we all face this unprecedented crisis.Now, let’s shift to our financial results. I will briefly highlight our first quarter performance and then focus on how we are navigating the current realities, discuss what the immediate impact has been on our business, and then look at how we think about the potential impact going forward. Mike will then go through the financials in more details. For the first quarter, we reported earnings of $944 million and earnings per share of $1.05, that’s up 12% over the first quarter of 2019, with revenue up 5% and expenses flat as we benefited from heightened levels of market activity and volatility partially offset by the impact of lower interest rates. All of our investment services business showed solid growth.Clearly, we have entered an unprecedented environment where things are changing quickly and it’s going to be a very challenging time for everyone. As the – the situation has evolved quickly, but from the start, our focus was on the health and well-being of our people and the continuity of service to our clients. We quickly transitioned the vast majority of our people to working from home, which opened up space for us to create social distancing for the small number of essential and office staff. Fewer than 5% of our global employees remain in the office. These essential in-office…

Mike Santomassino

Analyst

Thanks, Todd and good morning everyone. First, let me echo Todd’s opening comments. There are an incredible number of people in our communities who are either out there on the frontlines or are providing essential services to help the rest of us and our families not to mention all the people and government in our industry who are working together to help the economy, help people pay their bills and ensure the smooth functioning of the global markets. We are thankful to all of them. With that said, let me run through the details of our results for the quarter. All comparisons will be on a year-over-year basis unless I specify otherwise.Beginning on Page 5 with the financial highlights document, in the first quarter of 2020, we had earnings of $944 million and earnings per share of $1.05, up 4% and 12% respectively. Comparisons versus the fourth quarter of 2019 are impacted by the notable items we incurred last quarter specifically the gain on sale of the equity investment, which was partially offset by severance and litigation expenses and net security losses. Total revenue was $4.1 billion or up 5%. Fee revenue increased 10% primarily driven by higher foreign exchange and other trading revenue, higher transaction volumes and increased activity from existing clients across investment services and higher performance fees in investment management which were partially offset by equity investment losses and losses from consolidated investment management firms.Net interest revenue declined 3% to $814 million year-over-year and was flat to the fourth quarter. We increased our provision for credit losses by $169 million in the quarter. This was driven by the macroeconomic outlook in conjunction with the application of the new CECL accounting standard. Our actual losses or net charge-offs were $1 million during the quarter. Expenses were essentially flat…

Operator

Operator

Absolutely. [Operator Instructions] Thank you. Our first question comes from the line of Gerard Cassidy with RBC. Please go ahead.

Gerard Cassidy

Analyst

Thank you. Can you hear me?

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

We can, Gerard.

Gerard Cassidy

Analyst

Great. Congratulations Todd on the new role, you certainly deserve this, so congratulations.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Thanks, Gerard.

Gerard Cassidy

Analyst

Can you give us a big picture answer? Obviously you guys are the chief plumbers of the financial system and we sort of as you pointed out extraordinary volumes in so many different areas. Can you give us a read from the inside how the system handled all the surge? It appears to have ended it well, but maybe you can give us some firsthand examples of how well the macro system worked to the surge in activity?

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Yes, I will take that, Gerard. So it’s Todd. I think it’s impressive how well the system did handle the huge increases in activity and there were there are couple of glitches but not many and for example clearing in collateral management business we went to a 100% work from home very early on and all of that worked quite smoothly and so we saw volumes increased 50% overnight but we had the technology and the capacity to manage it so I think I am pretty impressed across the board where we saw resiliency and disaster recovery plans that had to change a bit to typically a disaster recovery plan where we focus on a region but this was obviously global and so they moved to work from home was wherever it can be executed was executed so a couple of occasional glitches constant conversations between the counter parties as well as our client’s we had many thousands of conversations to make sure that we were connected that they knew how they could connect with us we although there was a lot of mobilization to the use of our portal and electronic means of communication which made things much simpler so I think it was an impressive reflection in the strength of our financial system and the infrastructure of it.

Gerard Cassidy

Analyst

Thank you. And then more specific question obviously CECL hit your provision for the quarter, similar to other banks two parts first what kind of economic assumptions we will use to come up with that provision that we put in to the first quarter results and then second if you could identify where most of that was allocated, was it to, you mentioned some hotel exposure or to financial customers would be helpful as well? Thank you.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Mike, you want to take that one?

Mike Santomassino

Analyst

Yes, sure Todd, I will take that. So I would say first as you sort of think about the reserve that we have built, a very small piece of it was due to individual either borrower downgrades or the incremental loans that we saw drawn and most of it was really reflective of the changing economic environments in the new accounting standard and as we sort of think about the outlook that was in there with the outlook takes into account multiple scenarios and we sort of use that changing environment sort of inform what we did and as you sort of look at it was a meaningful waiting towards a very prolong recessionary scenario that does not fully recover us until you get into 2021. So I think that’s the way I would sort of think about it.

Gerard Cassidy

Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Brennan Hawken with UBS. Please go ahead.

Brennan Hawken

Analyst · UBS. Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning. Can you hear me?

Todd Gibbons

Analyst · UBS. Please go ahead.

We can, Brennan. There is a little noise in the background.

Brennan Hawken

Analyst · UBS. Please go ahead.

Yes, sorry, it’s another earnings call that’s overlapping, but I am trying to have doing cell phone here, apologies. First off, Todd, congratulations on getting the role of CEO. They kept us in suspense for a while, but glad to see we got to the right place. Quick one on deposit cost trends, so they came in better than expected. It was probably helped by some of the timing of deposit growth, but is there way to help us think about that line in 2Q, maybe how much was averaging and then what you expect to continue to see as far as some relief on the deposit cost front will be great? Thanks.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst · UBS. Please go ahead.

Okay. Mike, you want to take that one as well?

Mike Santomassino

Analyst · UBS. Please go ahead.

Yes, sorry – sorry about that. Yes, so Brennan, as you sort of think about it, as you know, the Fed moves pretty substantially in the latter or middle of March I guess. And we adjusted our pricing there and so you only saw really a couple of weeks of that sort of embedded in the first quarter averages. And so as you sort of look at full run-rate impact of that, it’s going be a pretty substantial increase down for the cost of interest bearing deposits. And so in the beta obviously changes as you sort of get close to zero, but I think you will see a pretty significant decline as you get down for the rest of the quarter.

Brennan Hawken

Analyst · UBS. Please go ahead.

Okay, alright. Thanks for that. And then when we think about servicing lines, I believe Mike that you talked about how there was some strength from volumes, which aided the line which you guys flagged during 1Q as well and early March and it was great to see it come through, but it seemed as though you sort of cautioned about that sustaining, is that because you have seen some of those volumes already subside and can you help us think about maybe how much of a contributing factor that was so we could maybe calibrate for how to adjust in our forecast? Thank you.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst · UBS. Please go ahead.

So Mike, you want to start and maybe I will add little color.

Mike Santomassino

Analyst · UBS. Please go ahead.

Yes, I think as you sort of think about what we saw as Todd mentioned in his script is the volumes we saw in the latter part of March were exceptional and they went from for lack of a better way to describe it sort of 0 to 100 overnight. And as we sort of look at what we are seeing post-quarter end, the volumes are still higher than they were before the search, but certainly off the peak that we have had in the latter part of March. And I think as you sort of look at the go forward expectation, it’s really hard to predict with a high degree of certainty how long they will stay elevated and come down to back to normal.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst · UBS. Please go ahead.

Yes, I would add a little color, I mean in some of the businesses like clearing and collateral management. So as you think about our government clearing business that’s continuing to sustain itself at very high level, because the government is issuing a lot of debt and there is a lot of trading going on around that. The collateral management business is probably a little bit off from where we saw it at the peak, but I think secured lending will become more and more will continue to be important in the industry and we are likely to see growth there. But the very high volumes, for example, that we would have seen in Pershing, the transaction volumes are going to fallback to what we think more normalized levels, which they begun, we have begun to do we are seeing that in asset servicing to certain extent as well.

Brennan Hawken

Analyst · UBS. Please go ahead.

Okay, alright. I will try and triangulate those factors. Thanks a lot for the color.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst · UBS. Please go ahead.

Thanks, Brennan.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Betsy Graseck with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Betsy Graseck

Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning. Congratulations Todd. That’s great news.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Thanks, Betsy.

Betsy Graseck

Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

I had a question around the press, now that the rules are starting April 1 is the kick off date for the new rules. Could give us a sense as to how you are thinking about that capital stack and what you would do with the press here?

Todd Gibbons

Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Okay. Mike, I will turn that one over to you.

Mike Santomassino

Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Yes. Look, obviously, Betsy, as you know we are in the middle of CCAR. So we are not going to talk much about sort of what our capital plan looks like at this point. But as you sort of think about where given the increase in the balance sheet where we are most constrained right now is Tier 1 leverage. And I think as you sort of think about prospect that could be good depending on how long we have sort of remained constrained there that could be a good way to continue to – on that, I think we are going to continue to look at opportunities to either refi, press if that comes back into market and pricing comes back to where it was just 4, 5, 6 weeks ago. So, we are continuing to look at the capital stack and we will give you more once CCAR is done.

Betsy Graseck

Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

And then when I am thinking about the funding mix, there is room for your funding costs to come down obviously with not only deposits, but in looking at the long-term debt, is there some opportunity there as well in this environment to reduce the funding costs?

Todd Gibbons

Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Mike?

Mike Santomassino

Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

To reduce long-term debt, is that what you are suggesting, Betsy?

Betsy Graseck

Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Yes. Well, just looking at the yield on the long-term debt, is there room there to bring this down in addition to the deposits, cost of funds here over the long-term?

Mike Santomassino

Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Yes. Well, I think lower rates are going to impact all of our funding costs overall, right. And I think you are going to see that come through in the second quarter. So I think you will see that.

Betsy Graseck

Analyst · Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Okay, thanks.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Next, we move to Ken Usdin with Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Ken Usdin

Analyst

Thanks. Good morning, everyone. Mike, can you talk a little bit about more about just on helping us to understand because it’s been a while now on the fee waiver side. So, the 50 to 75, can you just help us understand what that means when you say net of distribution expense, where it shows up in the income statement and then would there be logically just because rates are going down at bigger potential impact as you move past 2Q just on the direction of rates?

Mike Santomassino

Analyst

Yes. I think I will try to give you a little bit of the things that we are sort of thinking about related to that, but so first and foremost, if we can have an impact on government funds first, right, as you sort of think about where yields are. And one of the variables that makes it pretty hard to estimate right now is just where T bill yields are. So over the last 3 weeks they have gone from negative to 20 plus basis points back down a bit now over the last day or so and so that’s going to be a big driver of when they start – when fee waiver start to kick in and that’s of them as well. So you sort of have to keep that in mind. And as you sort of think about the funds in our asset management business that may get impacted by it that maybe distributed through other parts of the company, some of those fee waivers would be offset by lower distribution expenses in those businesses. So you will see the fee waivers come through the fee line. And then you see distribution expenses lower as they start to impact those funds.

Ken Usdin

Analyst

Okay, got it.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

And Ken, I will add a little bit to that. It’s important to note the difference between prime and government funds. So, the yield in prime funds is can certainly support the fees. Initially, there was avoidance of client funds. And we are starting to see some investors come back to them. So that could have an impact that would neutralize some of it. And Mike’s point is there is going to be enough yield in assets and government funds to generate the fees and the huge amount of issuance in T-bills has kind of surprised just a little bit and put a little bit of yield into that, but that can’t be certain that could come down again.

Ken Usdin

Analyst

Got it. And just to follow-up on the cost side obviously you are adjusting to try to keep costs flat in this environment, can you just talk a little bit more about what do you shift, is it – do you push out some investment spend, is it incentive comp adjustment, what are the ins and outs of your ability to hold the line there that you are tempting to do? Thanks guys and best of luck, Todd.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Thank you. Mike, you want to take that?

Mike Santomassino

Analyst

Yes. We haven’t seen – so first, we haven’t really seen any impact on our most important investment. As you sort of look at the investment portfolio and you get deeper into the list, there is always opportunity to sort of reprioritize the timing of some of those things. And so we are doing that. You are going to see update the obvious, but you are going to see lower travel and business development costs that will be part of it. Although Todd said we are not going to have any restructuring or layoffs through the rest of the year. We were also putting a lot of discipline around new hires that we are bringing in during this environment so I think it is a multitude of factors that you highlighted that help us have the confidence to get there.

Ken Usdin

Analyst

Thanks guys.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. We will next move to Brian Bedell with Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Brian Bedell

Analyst

Great. Thanks. Good morning and also congrats Todd. Good to see you get the new role to start with maybe Todd. Thanks Mike for giving us pretty good outlook for the activity levels bringing into the second quarter but Todd may be you can give us some prospective on what you can see for the rest of the year obviously extremely difficult to predict but with the government intervention and we uncertainty though to have to the path to recovery how are you seeing that potentially impact some of the key business lines in activity and also comments on the back step on the Fed on prime money funds, to the extent you can get much more confidence in people investing in prime funds transition government?

Mike Santomassino

Analyst

Yes. Well first of all as I mentioned we are seeing a little of that so we are seeing a little bit of positive flows into the prime funds. But if you look at activity levels we would expect them to obviously come down from the surge that we saw towards the end of March but probably be elevated and again anything we see there is just so much uncertainty the environment and situation that we faced and it is really hard for us to look out long term until we get on the other side of this of the health crisis but that being said we wouldn’t expect to stay at the extraordinary high levels that we saw in March we see exception perhaps of our clearing and collateral management business just because there is going to be so much debt issuance but in the rest of our businesses the transaction volumes component of Pershing business the same thing in asset servicing we would expect that to moderate just about under any circumstances unless we just saw another couple of blips and more of what I call a see-saw activity that could take place over the remainder of the year.

Brian Bedell

Analyst

And then the organic growth efforts that you're doing as well, like in deposit gathering and in collateral management is that on track or is that sort of suspended in this environment?

Mike Santomassino

Analyst

Yes I would say if you look at the organic growth especially around the deposits I mean we had we have seen some positive there obviously there were surge deposits that are just going to be associated with this interest rate environment and this financial environment but when we look at other businesses we have room to gain some market share I think we have done that in our payments business we had some good wins in the first quarter and our asset servicing business I would expect under this environment people are probably going to slow down making a whole lot of transitions we have got a healthy pipeline both in our asset servicing and Pershing business I am not sure a lot of people are going to make a whole lot of change we are seeing some new point complexes come on we were also seeing some being differed.

Brian Bedell

Analyst

Great. That's helpful. And then Mike, just real quick on NII outlook into the second quarter, does that exclude FX hedging activity?

Mike Santomassino

Analyst

Yes I mean not affected but the hedging activity is hard to predict because it's at a point of time at the end of the quarter so we are not making assumption in a way on that at this point

Brian Bedell

Analyst

Great. Thanks so much taking the questions.

Operator

Operator

[Operator Instructions] We will next go to the line of Brian Kleinhanzl of KBW. Please go ahead.

Brian Kleinhanzl

Analyst

Great, thanks. Good morning. Congrats, Todd. Quick question on Pershing kind of what you've been seeing with all of the changes going on in the industry and kind of what that means for the pipeline form that business does it help or is it too early to say at this point of time?

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Yes I will make a couple of comments and Mike can add some color. First of all, I think it’s a little early to say Pershing has a different model and I think clients are quite interested in seeing a more open architected approach to what some of the competitors are doing so I think the conversations are quite healthy there. I think the pipeline continues to be strong. They have come out with a very competitive subscription price alternative to meet whatever the demand of that client base is. We are continuing to invest in our advisory services business. So I don’t think it’s – I don’t think there is any significant impact that we are seeing from some of the consolidation elsewhere in the business other than it’s making us a little bit more of a differentiated alternative. I would also mention that Pershing did quite well through the crisis, so I was able to keep its technology up and running and accommodate the surge in the growth which in some instances we point out was 3x to 4x. I don’t know Mike do you have anything to add to that?

Mike Santomassino

Analyst

And then I would just say probably more broadly outside of just Pershing, I think we are seeing the benefits of lot of the investments we have been making over the last couple of years. And I think clients are seeing that as well and though anecdotally we heard from a client that just we brought on to our middle office service late last year saying I am not sure how I could have done this without you and couldn’t have dealt with all of the increase in the volatility on my own. And so I think we are seeing that sentiment really across – more broadly across the client base.

Brian Kleinhanzl

Analyst

Okay. And then just a separate question on those deposits that you saw come in, in surge in March, they are rolling off the balance sheet now, are those going more so into your own liquidity products and that’s been factored into the few waivers that you gave in the second quarter, are they just rolling off completely?

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Well, I take that one and then Mike can jump in. If you think about what happened in the ecosystem so when there was a lot of draws for example under these commitments around the country, a lot of that cash had to go somewhere, some of it was deposited back at banks, lot of it went into government funds. Initially, government funds had nowhere to invest. So, a lot of that ended up in the money-market funds where we were the custodians and we saw that big spike perhaps now as lot of that spike has normalized itself out as there are other alternative investments for those government funds. Some of those were our own money market funds and some of them were competitor money market funds. I think that’s the biggest most volatile component of the cash that we saw move.

Brian Kleinhanzl

Analyst

Thanks.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. Our next question goes to Mike Mayo with Wells Fargo Securities. Please go ahead.

Mike Mayo

Analyst

Hi. So, I guess you are positioning 169x your level of charge-offs. I only bring that up because what sort of economic scenario are you assuming in taking those provisions?

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Mike?

Mike Santomassino

Analyst

Yes. Mike, I as said earlier, we are using multiple, many scenarios to sort of go in sort of thinking about what the ultimate reserving looks like, but it’s a scenario where you don’t see a meaningful sort of uplift or doesn’t fully recover until you are into the middle of next year. So you start a recovery in the latter part of the year and it doesn’t fully recover until later in 2021. As I said earlier as well, only a small portion of the reserve is related to either actual borrower downgrades or the increase in the loan portfolio, the remainder of it is related to the changing economic environment and the way that flows through the new accounting standard.

Mike Mayo

Analyst

I guess so what I am getting to is its not just unique to you, it’s the industry. So it seems like you are planning for kind of a U recovery, but you have an infrastructure for a V recovery like here, you are retaining your employees, your expenses should be kind of flat this year. I am going to guess you are not changing tech spending, but I am not sure if that’s correct. So help me reconcile keeping an infrastructure for a V recovery while your underlying premise is for a V recovery?

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

You want to take that, Mike? You only take it.

Mike Santomassino

Analyst

You go ahead and start.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Okay. Yes, well why don’t I start? So, we did give guidance and might give guidance and we do expect expenses might be lower than they otherwise would have been. We think that having the human resources here is the right thing to do not only for them but also to position ourselves well to service our client’s through this kind of an environment trying to make any significant changes just wouldn’t be particularly prudent on our part that being said we are controlling other components of our costs we want to continue to make the investments in technology that can I am sure some of that will be delayed and could be somewhat different prioritization but we are going to keep it very close eye on our expenses we think we can do a little bit better than the guidance that we had previously given for a number of reasons and we are talking about a U shape type of recovery which means you do need those resources to continue to support our people in this kind of an environment.

Mike Mayo

Analyst

And just last follow-up then, just on the tech spending so you expect some delay or like what was your tech spending going to be what would be now or how should we think about that part?

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Yes we are committed to continue with the spend that we have gotten and that’s what we have indicated I am certain that a couple of things might end of being delayed a bit but I am not going to pull that out of our plans at this point time by any means.

Mike Mayo

Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. We will next go to Alexander Blostein with Goldman Sachs.

Alexander Blostein

Analyst

Great, thanks. Thanks for taking the question and to echo everybody’s comments, congratulations to Todd. Question for you guys with respect to just broader a liquidity in the system clearly there has been a tremendous amount of cash flows coming through the side lines and that supposed to that's both the Fed action as well as the general risk call backdrop how should we think about BK’s ability to sort of absorb these deposits so changes to spot SLR definitely help but there is lots of other considerations so kind of help us think through the ramifications of this a little bit longer term and how the balance sheet could ultimately be in terms of size beyond the first quarter?

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Okay Mike you want to take that?

Mike Santomassino

Analyst

Yes I think the SLR change is sort of helpful that is out there but I think as you sort of look at our constrains balance sheets its been on Tier 1 leverage based on the overall size of the balance sheet and I think we have been able to sort of work through that with our client’s pretty effectively so far and as Todd said the environment normalizes a bit for the money funds and the rate environments sort of settle down we have seen those real surge balances come off and so our expectation as they normalize more is that the balance sheet will either sort of hold steady or sort of come down from where we are right now and so we feel like we can sort of walk through that pretty effectively with the current capital that we got.

Alexander Blostein

Analyst

Got it. Thanks for that. And then just a couple of cleanups around NIR, can you help quantify the hedging benefits in the quarter I know it hits an IR and shows up in FX. So just to clean that up so any sense of new money yield on the fixed portion on the securities portfolio as that matures and gets reinvested just trying to get a sense of the headwind to NIR beyond the second quarter on that fixed sale of the portfolio? Thanks.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Sure. I think the first piece on the heading benefit so this is kind of really sort of simple we have interest rates swaps in the portfolio in the way they are valued every day sort of creates some basis risk between OIS and LIBOR. And really, all we're doing is sort of hedging that basic risk that’s created from the interest rate swaps and that impact for the quarter is based on where it all ends up on the day one day at the end of the quarter so there is really nothing else sort of happening there and you can kind of see the relative impact on the slide in the presentation so it is a hard thing to sort of predict in terms of where it is going to end up at the end of the quarter. As we sort of think about the securities portfolio I mean you can kind of see where rates are right now as you sort of think about both the fixed rate and the floating rate piece of the portfolio. And I think as we sort of look at our investments strategy going forward we are doing whatever we can try to get some yield out of it. And I think the reinvestment rates are down from what you saw obviously in the second quarter. But just a reminder, the overall duration of the portfolio just a couple of years, right, so we are not buying a lot of 30-year treasuries as we sort of think about this portfolio. And I think we are doing our best to try to keep that spread up as best as we can within the risk appetite we are in.

Alex Blostein

Analyst

Great. Thanks very much.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Thanks, Alex.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And gentlemen, we have no further questions at this time. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Todd Gibbons for any additional or closing remarks.

Todd Gibbons

Analyst

Okay. Thanks, Derrick and thanks everybody for your interest in our company and have a good day.

Operator

Operator

Thank you. And this concludes today’s conference call webcast. A replay of this conference call webcast will be available on the BNY Mellon Investor Relations website at 2 o’clock p.m. Eastern Standard Time today. Thank you. Have a good day.