AI summary not yet generated for this transcript. Generation in progress for older transcripts; check back soon, or browse the full transcript below.
Same-Day
-3.18%
1 Week
-6.54%
1 Month
-11.36%
vs S&P
-14.59%
Transcript
OP
Operator
Operator
Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to BJ's Restaurants, Inc. Fourth Quarter and Fiscal 2011 Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] I'd now like to turn the conference over to Chief Executive Officer and Chairman, Mr. Jerry Deitchle. Please go ahead, sir.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Robert W. Baird & Co
Thanks, operator. Hello, everybody. I'm Jerry Deitchle with BJ's Restaurants, and welcome to our fourth quarter 2011 investor conference call, which we're also broadcasting live over the Internet.
After the market closed today, we released our financial results for our fourth quarter of fiscal 2011 that ended on Tuesday, January 3, 2012. You can view the full text of our earnings release on our website at www.bjsrestaurants.com.
Joining on the call today in the order of their prepared remarks are Greg Lynds, our Executive VP and Chief Development Officer; Wayne Jones, our Executive VP and Chief Restaurant Operations Officer; and Greg Levin, our Executive VP and Chief Financial Officer. We're going to begin with our prepared remarks right after Dianne Scott, our Director of Corporate Relations, provides our standard cautionary disclosure with respect to forward-looking statements. Dianne, go ahead, please.
DS
Dianne Scott
Analyst
Thank you, Jerry. Our comments on the conference call today will contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements involve known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other factors that may cause the actual results, performance or achievements of the company to be materially different from any future results, performance or achievements expressed or implied by forward-looking statements. Investors are cautioned that forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance, and that undue reliance should not be placed on such statements.
Our forward-looking statements speak only as of today's date, February 16, 2012. We undertake no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements or to make any other forward-looking statements whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, unless required to do so by the Securities laws. Investors are referred to the full discussion of risks and uncertainties associated with forward-looking statements contained in the company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Robert W. Baird & Co
Thanks, Dianne. As we noted in our press release today, our leadership team here at BJ's was very pleased to deliver a very strong financial performance for not only our fiscal fourth quarter of 2011, but also for our full fiscal year of 2011. Now as we review our results today, please keep in mind that both the fourth quarter and full year of 2011 include one additional operating week compared to the same periods last year. Now with that in mind, let's quickly summarize our financial results for the fourth quarter compared to the same quarter last year. First of all, our total revenues were up a strong 29% to $171.8 million. That was driven by both solid increases in our comparable restaurant sales and sales contributions from our new restaurant openings. Next, our comparable restaurant sales were up a strong 5.1% on a 13-week comparison, successfully hurdling a very tough comparison of 5.9% in the same quarter of last year. During the quarter, once again, our comparable sales increased reflected a favorable hat trick combination of positive benefits from increased menu prices, guest traffic and items purchased per guest. Next, our average sales per restaurant operating week on a 13-week basis was also up a solid 5.7%, reflecting both our comparable sales increases and the impact of solid weekly sales volumes from our new restaurant openings. Once again, our new restaurant expansion program continues to be high quality expansion, not just growth for the sake of growth. Next, our total productive capacity, as we measure in total restaurant operating weeks, increased about 12% on a 13-week comparison during the quarter, again reflecting the continuing successful execution of the targeted pace of our restaurant expansion plan. Next, our estimated four-wall restaurant cash flow margin, again, which is a non-GAAP…
GL
Gregory Lynds
Analyst · Brad Ludington with KeyBanc Capital Market
Thanks, Jerry, and good afternoon, everyone. As Jerry noted earlier, all of our 2011 new restaurant development targets were successfully achieved. During 2011 we opened 13 successful new restaurants and achieved our targeted growth in total restaurant operating leases for the year. In the fourth quarter, we opened 4 restaurants. On September 28, we opened in Dublin, Ohio on a free-standing pad at the Tuttle Crossing regional mall. On October 17, we opened right here in Southern California in the city of Rancho Santa Margarita. And then on October 31, we opened 2 restaurants, 1 in Fort Worth, Texas and 1 in Anaheim Hills, California, which is our experimental BJ's Grill concept. Geographically, we opened all of our restaurants within our existing 13-state footprint and continue to strengthen our leverageable restaurant base, especially in California, Texas and Florida, where we have 88 of our 115 restaurants are located. We now have a strong base of restaurants from coast-to-coast, and we are well-positioned to continue building our brand in core of western states, state of Texas, the Ohio Valley and most likely in other East Coast markets starting in 2013. We are very pleased with the initial sales volume and performance of our class of 2011 openings. We worked hard over the last 5 years to better position BJ's as a higher quality, more differentiated casual plus dining concept, and our new restaurant designs continue to strengthen this position. In 2011, we continue to enhance and upgrade the interior and exterior of our new restaurants by improving our music, video and lighting packages. In addition, we are now building larger, more efficient patios and these new patios, combined with our interior seating initiatives, have resulted in improved operating efficiency. Overall, our new restaurant development pipeline remains in excellent shape, and we…
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Robert W. Baird & Co
Thanks for the update, Greg. We continue to believe that BJ's four-wall economics are very sound and they support a continued steady pace of new restaurant expansion. As Greg mentioned, we're always going to pick quality over quantity when it comes to our new restaurant locations. And we're going to the continue to carefully execute our expansion program at the right pace to facilitate the achievement of 3 outcomes: Quality, predictability and leverage.
We should also mind -- remind our investors that in contrast to many of our more mature, more fully penetrated casual dining competitors that might rely more on comp sales growth as the key driver of annual growth to total revenues, BJ's will continue to rely more on high-quality new restaurant expansion as the key driver of our total annual revenue growth for the next several years. There is no question that much of America remains wide open for the future development of BJ's Restaurants, and we're just as excited about that as many of our investors are.
Now having said that, our challenge, I think, is to resist the temptation to expand the business faster than it should be expanded, and thereby take on the risk of outrunning our headlights, so to speak, when it comes to acquiring high-quality sites and enabling high-quality operational execution. Many concepts that have come before us with their growth plans have suffered from a steady gravitational pull downward in their overall quality and predictability when they became too aggressive in setting the pace of their expansion even during the better times in the overall economic cycle. And many of those concepts also took on too much new market risk in the execution of their expansion plan, and thereby failed to achieve good leverage in all aspects of their operations as a result of their expansion. So we're going to avoid those pitfalls as we execute BJ's national expansion plan.
We continue believe that it makes sense to be very careful and measured as we steadily develop our national geographical footprint in order to advance the quality, productivity and leveragability of our business model. For us, expansion is not a strategy in and of itself. Instead, it's in the outcome of our strategy that drives quality, differentiation, predictability and leverage in our operations.
Now I'll turn the call over to Wayne Jones for his operational commentary on the quarter. Wayne, go ahead.
WJ
Wayne Jones
Analyst · Nicole Miller with Piper Jaffray
Thanks, Jerry, and good afternoon, everyone. We have been very pleased with our execution of our sales-building initiatives by our restaurant operations team, and in particular the execution of our recent menu-based initiatives, which had proven to be solid drivers of incremental sales. We also continue to see improved guest traffic and sales per guest as a result of the success of our CapEx-related initiatives, particularly our increased seating for parties for 2, what we internally call our deuce seating initiative, and our extended -- expanded guest beer tap initiative. About 9% of our existing restaurants currently have both of these initiatives in place, and we can -- and we plan to complete the remaining 10% during the first half of 2012. So there continues to be more upside yet to come from these 2 initiatives. All of our new restaurants have these 2 programs in place when we open. Additionally, we're planning to increase the capacity of another 10 existing restaurants by upgrading the patio seating layouts. Moving onto our menu initiatives. As Jerry mentioned, we have introduced many new menu and beverage items during the past 2 years that have been well-received by our guest and have generated incremental sales. Our teams have done an excellent job of absorbing these additions as our menu continues to diversify with offerings that resonate very well with our guests. This past November, we rolled out fall menu in which we introduced our new Fan Burgers with a tie-in to our Facebook social media network. In addition, we added an incredibly popular new Angus rib-eye steak to complement our New York steak, which has provided the guest a great value, and a nice option which drives a higher check average. We also continue to refresh our successful small bites snacks category with…
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Robert W. Baird & Co
Thanks, Wayne. Well, once again, our restaurant operations team certainly has a lot of sales-building and productivity initiatives to digest during the upcoming year, but we also know that they are as excited as we are to have the opportunity to keep driving our overall quality and our financial results upward.
Now, we're going to turn the call over to Greg Levin, our CFO, for his financial commentary on the quarter. Greg, go ahead.
GL
Gregory Levin
Analyst · Robert W. Baird & Co
All right. Thanks, Jerry, and good afternoon, everyone. Let me take a couple of minutes and go through some of the highlights for the fourth quarter. I'll also provide some forward-looking commentary for 2012. But I want to remind everyone that all such commentary is subject to the risks and uncertainties regarding forward-looking statement that are included in our SEC filings. Additionally, my commentary may also refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures that we use in our internal review of the business and that we believe will help provide insight into our ongoing operation. As Jerry previously noted, our total revenues for BJ's fourth quarter increased approximately 29% to approximately $171.8 million from $132.9 million in the prior year's comparable quarter. As we disclosed, this year's fourth quarter was comprised of 14 weeks as compared to last year's 13-week fourth quarter. This extra week encounter -- accounted for $13.9 million of sales for the fourth of 2011. Therefore excluding this extra week, sales for the fourth quarter of 2011 increased to $157.9 million, which is an approximate 19% increase compared to last year on the same comparable 13-week period. This 19% increase was comprised of an approximate 12.5% increase in operating week and an increase in our average weekly sales of about 5.7%. While we do not report monthly comparable restaurant sales, each period were solidly positive with December being our softest period during the quarter as we are going up against some of our toughest comparisons from prior year. Additionally, the choppiness in our day-to-day sales comparison that we discussed during our third quarter conference call, which was this past October, continued throughout the quarter. And this trend appears to be continuing in the first quarter of 2012. Our 5.1% comparable sales increase for the fourth quarter consisted of…
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Robert W. Baird & Co
Thanks, Greg. As usual, a very thorough review. Look, our comments have taken a little bit longer, but we had a lot to talk about today, so let me just quickly summarize our comments for today and then we'll get your questions.
We were very pleased with our very solid results for both the fourth quarter and the full year of 2011. We're continuing our forward momentum so far this year in the first quarter of 2012, and we're gearing up to execute another year of profitable new restaurant expansion for BJ's. We're going to do our best to navigate through the current and expected volatile commodity cost environment using a combination of menu-related and merchandising actions achievable and selected menu price increases and the deployment of certain productivity efficiency and cost-saving initiatives.
Now at the same time, we're going to continue to make the right investments for BJ's long-term success. Investments in our team members, investments in our guests, investments in our operating support infrastructure and investments in the quality and differentiation of our brand. Compared to our larger, more mature casual dining competitors, BJ's is still a relative youngster in many respects. We still have our fair share of the typical growing pains to overcome. But we're in this for the long haul. We're going to continue to build a solid foundation to support the team's growth of our concept in our company in a very productive and leverageable manner. And we still believe the best years are ahead of us here at BJ's.
So now that concludes our formal prepared remarks, and we're going to finally, open up the call for your questions. Operator, go ahead.
OP
Operator
Operator
[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of David Tarantino with Robert W. Baird & Co.
DT
David Tarantino
Analyst · Robert W. Baird & Co
Greg, just a question about the long-term outlook for the restaurant level margin 2011, and for the third year in a row where you were able to improve that margin. And now that you're at a fairly high level above 20%, just wondering if you could kind of frame up how you're thinking about it as you look out over the next 3 to 5 years and your ability to drive improvement in your -- maybe willingness to drive improvement or choose to reinvest any upside into initiatives.
GL
Gregory Levin
Analyst · Robert W. Baird & Co
I'll take that comment. I'm Jerry would like to comment on it as well because it is a very good point in regards to the things that we've talked about 20% restaurant level cash flow margin and making sure we preserve that. And we've mentioned many times on this call that when we're hitting a 20% margin -- and I'm just using that number roughly right now, that means we have a certain amount of restaurants that are below that. And we talked about that all the time. It's a combination of the ramp up period of our newer restaurants and getting them up to altitude sooner, and that will lift the entire margins up for the restaurant company or for BJ's. We have many restaurants that today still are further off on their food variance, that are still not as fast as they should be in regard to cook time. We have restaurants that had too many comps and service adjustments, and I don't think that frankly go into those margins. So when I think about the ability long-term for us to expand those margins, I think, there's tremendous opportunity within our four walls that are not related to pricing frankly, and trying to price our way to better margin. So as we think about the expansion of these and build BJ's over the longer-term, there is definitely that opportunity to continue to move it up. Will we see some of the large improvements that we've seen over the last couple of years? That might be more difficult because of the improvements we've seen in comp sales from really 2009, when we are flat for the last couple of years and we've been in the mid-the 5%, and just last year 6% for the entire year, and that gives you your leverage. But we can continue to drive comp sales. From the efficiency standpoint. The ability to move those margins continually upward is there. There's definitely an opportunity for us.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Robert W. Baird & Co
The only thing that I would add to that, and I think Greg is absolutely correct is if you just do the math in our business, if we could just get our fourth quartile performers to move up to the third quartile of actual performers in terms of restaurant and operating margins in our business, that would probably provide a 100-basis point lift to our consolidated four-wall operating margin. So Greg is absolutely right. We have those opportunities, and Wayne and his team continually work those. We have several different metrics that we rank every one of our restaurants on productivity, efficiency and so forth, and that's all built into our incentive plans to get the fourth quartile margins up. They're just the average margin. And it's amazing mathematically what will that do to your consolidated margins. In terms of our philosophy with respect to margins, I will tell you, I've been in this business for almost 40 years now. I've been involved in many restaurant chain expansion programs, both in quick service back in the '70s and '80s and in highly complex casual dining here in the past 15 years or so. I will tell you when you get to a pure operating, highly complex casual dining concept like BJ's, the biggest challenge as you execute an expansion plan as to preserve your original home court four-wall operating margin. So the further you get away from your home court, as you enter new markets, as you bring a less tenured restaurant operators in to execute your concept, that's the big challenge in our particular segment of the restaurant industry. And I'm happy to say that if you go back 2004 and look at the consolidated four-wall margins of our business back then, and now you look at them today, it was 115 restaurants versus say, 30 or 35 back then, we've been able to preserve our consolidated four-wall operating margins, despite all of the pushes and pulls of the economy. So that is our fundamental philosophical approach to it. We have achieved clearly some leverage over the past several years as we've driven our comp sales. But we chose to reinvest the majority of that benefit of that leverage back into the quality and differentiation of the concept. It gives us that ability to take market share on the mass market chains that are not high-quality or differentiated anymore. It gives us additional pricing power, which you absolutely have to have at an inflationary environment, particularly what we're living through now live higher-than-normal inflation in certain commodity costs -- almost all commodity costs across the board. So we believe that's the appropriate strategy. And again, I'd love to see the overall consolidated margins with another 100 basis points, but that's in hands of our operators to execute better.
OP
Operator
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Andy Barish with Jefferies & Company.
AB
Andrew Barish
Analyst · Andy Barish with Jefferies & Company
I'm a little confused just on the 2 big expense lines: Food and labor, food getting some leverage and labor going the other way even with the high volumes and the extra week. More on the labor line, is there something that -- I understand some of the items, Greg, that you mentioned. But is there something going on just above the additional menu items and the complexity that you've actually had to add sort of the layer of staff and at one -- if that is the case, at what point do you sort of lapse some of those actual body or labor hour increases?
GL
Gregory Levin
Analyst · Andy Barish with Jefferies & Company
There's a couple of things. [Indiscernible] I thought I was crystal clear, obviously, but I think we did mention in the call that we are seeing the extra labor in the kitchen, but frankly, it's driving the sales. And it's driving the sales of -- it's having a better impact on overall gross margins from that standpoint. In regards to the extra week, and I get your point a little bit, but the labor is 100% variable, the way we have it set up there. So vacation gets approved for that extra week in that regards. Payroll taxes get paid for that extra week from that standpoint. Managers get paid for that extra week. So there's not really any true leverage that you get in what you see in the operating and occupancy costs. And I think if you go back and look specifically at the last couple of quarters, you're going to see -- in Q1 of each year, you're going to see a higher labor and that's due to that higher payroll taxes from that standpoint, so that impacted that. In regards to the complexity of our menu and other thing, we're always going to be rolling out new menu items. And so we're always going to have certain amount of training labor, everything that comes in place on it, but we continue to work on optimizing it. And we're looking at a new labor-type metric this year that'll help us rebalance the line in where we started. And I think as we continue to work our business, we'll continue to get leverage there.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Andy Barish with Jefferies & Company
The only other thing that what I would add to it, Andy, are a couple of things. First of all, Wayne mentioned that we're continuing work on the cross-training of our line cooks, so that they can run multiple stations versus just a single station, which will certainly help in our productivity, particularly when one station needs little bit of help, and cross-train somebody to come in and temporarily pitch in versus scheduling another body to help a station. So we're working on that. The other factor in our labor is that in our management complements, we typically run anywhere from, say, 97% fully staffed to 102%, 103% staffed. Again, it depends on turnover. We recruit management to support openings or sometimes we run at the 102%, 103% level. Other times, we run at the 97% of our pars, and we've been running about 102% for the last couple of months as we're preparing for a lot of our increased openings here in the upcoming year. So that will gradually get disseminated into our normal operating facility as time goes on. So those are a couple of other factors, that I think, impacted the fourth quarter.
AB
Andrew Barish
Analyst · Andy Barish with Jefferies & Company
And just one other quick one on the new Anaheim Hills Grill. Great looking restaurant, I know it's early. Any new initial impressions or learnings or what sort of -- what should we look for out of that sort of test restaurant in 2012?
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Andy Barish with Jefferies & Company
Well, there are couple of things that we've learned in just the 90 or so days that it's been opened, Andy. The centralized beverage station for nonalcoholic beverages has been a significant productivity enhancement in that restaurant. It improves overall speed of service for nonalcoholic beverages to get to the table. And it also ensures that, frankly, they all get rung-up, which is always a problem in a lot of casual dining companies. So that's one immediate benefit that we've seen that we are going to begin to test in our larger brewhouse restaurants here to see if we can adopt that here over time. I think the other benefit that we've seen is, frankly, the handheld technology that we're testing in that particular restaurant for order-taking has also clearly improved the overall speed of service of the entire dining experience. We are going to evaluate that this year for a potential application next year in all of our brewhouse restaurants. Replacing our current fixed point-of-sale system was something that's a little more a mobile and handheld-driven. So those were a couple of things that we learned immediately. In terms of the overall look and feel and consumer reaction to the concept, it's been very well-received, very favorably received. In fact, we probably could open a full brewhouse there in that particular trade area. This restaurant has only got 4,500 interior square feet and our big brewhouses have 8,500 interior square feet. But I think so far, we've gotten a lot of learning from it. And we'll be applying that to the big brewhouses. We also have introduced -- the only new product that we really introduced at the opening in the grill was a hand-tossed pizza. Of course, we're known for our bakery crust deep dish pizza here, and that's our signature product. So we wanted to experiment with adding a hand-tossed pizza to the grill concept. And that has also been well-received. It has not cannibalized the sales of our deep dish pizza. So we're selling, in the aggregate, more pizza, which is the higher-margin item for us. So as we continue to work through the recipe and the dough quality and consistency and so forth, we intend to test that in the big brewhouses as a potential -- a new product rollout in the next 12 months, if not earlier. So those are some initial learnings, and I think we've got the concept.
OP
Operator
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets.
MD
Matthew DiFrisco
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
A couple of just clarifications. In discussing the future, looks like you're talking about a 4% commodity inflation, and you went back and forth between 2.5% and 3% price. Does it start off the year at 2.5%, and you're going to average 3%?
GL
Gregory Levin
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
That's correct. The way our menu pricing rolls off, right now we're at about 2.5%. We -- last year, we rolled out a new menu actually in the kind of January, February time frame with California labeling laws, and that rolled off. So as a result of that, it's put us down about 2.5%. But about 0.5% that rolls off in the kind of May time frame. Well at least to place that 0.5% there, which would probably keep us at around the 2.5% at the time, and as we get to the second half of the year, when we roll out our fall menu, we'll determine what we're replacing it with. So overall, I expect it to be somewhere around 3%.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
And again, as we mentioned in our prepared comments, Matt, we still haven't made our final decisions as to what our effective price increase will be in our main menu. I think we do have some flexibility there to react to competitive conditions, but we need to consider a little bit more. I believe we have the ability to do it. The other factor, too, that we also mentioned in our prepared remarks is that we have some cost-savings test underway that -- for potential yield on an annualized basis is from $1 million to $2 million of annualized cost savings with respect to certain ingredient and product specification changes. And we're testing those right now, and depending on how successful they are, and we at this time, feel very, very confident that the vast majority of those are going to be successful. And that will also enter into our menu pricing thoughts for the main menu as well.
MD
Matthew DiFrisco
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
Okay. And then, I guess, just to look at how would the cadence of the commodity 4% inflation -- would that be pretty steady throughout 2012? And is that something similar that you saw in 4Q?
GL
Gregory Levin
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
I think when we're looking at that throughout the year, it tends to increase a little bit for the second quarter, and it will start to drop off towards the end of the year. And the reason I say that is that certain items are already in inventory at beginning of this year. And it gives us a little bit of a benefit in the first quarter. And if you look at last year when we talked about the freeze happening in Mexico and Florida, that produce market really didn't start to hit us until kind of the March time frame, and then winding in the second quarter, even though the freeze was in the January time frame. So we'll get a little bit of a benefit here in the first quarter of our current menu pricing. And we'll start to see a little bit more pressure on cost to sales, I would think, as we move into Q2. And then as we layer on our menu pricing throughout the year, that will bring down cost to sales a little bit, similar to this year a little bit.
MD
Matthew DiFrisco
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
Excellent. And then looking at as far you made some comments on how the back half of the year gets easier with year-ago comparison, but specifically looking at this quarter, I think you said this time a year ago, the comp was 5% to 6%. So would you -- I would assume in the back half of 1Q, the next 7 weeks left for the first quarter, are going to be pretty challenging compares, close to 9% would be my math.
GL
Gregory Levin
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
That's probably a good calculation.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
That's a good algebra, Matt.
GL
Gregory Levin
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
I'm just following up the weekly comp in the past. And we kind of made the comment already on the call. Q1 is a challenging quarter for us. I mean, we did a 7.8% comp there, and looking across the board, we had some tremendous weeks last year that we're going to go up against this year. I think if you look at the 2-year average, frankly, we did about a 4% or a little over 4% comp in Q1 of 2010. We did the 7% last year or 8% last year, putting us our 2-year average, somewhere in that 11% range. Frankly, we're kind of right on. So we feel pretty pleased with how we're starting off.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
Absolutely.
MD
Matthew DiFrisco
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
And then just to -- clarifying as far as your G&A guidance when you said 12% as absolute dollars. That's incorporating the incremental G&A associated with the extra operating weeks. So just take the base dollars, and you're looking at that as far as roughly 12% in 2012?
GL
Gregory Levin
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
That's correct.
MD
Matthew DiFrisco
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
Okay. And then Jerry just a longer-term comment or, I guess, trends. Check management has been a big issue as far as other concepts, and they haven't really seen a recovery in that. Could we read into your couple of quarters now, your positive check as maybe your consumer and your brand, you're unwinding some of maybe the check management that maybe the customer is getting a little bit more frugal in tougher times and they're starting to buy maybe 2 sodas and maybe going back off the real drinks into some better premium products?
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Matt DiFrisco with Lazard Capital Markets
Well, I would answer the question within the context of the BJ's concept and what we've been doing with menu innovation and beverage innovation for the past couple of years, and how that's manifested itself in terms of the guests' spending behavior. Frankly, we have seen incidents rate increases and appetizer incidences and beverage incidences because frankly, due directly to the innovation of our small bites snacks category to the innovation, particularly on the beverage side, of our seasonal beers, we are selling more items per 100 guests today than we ever have in the history of the company. And I don't think it's just due to the consumer kind of feeling good or a little bit better in general, and maybe buying an extra something or other. You've got to give them a reason to spend their money. And at BJ's, our guests are not coming to window shop. They're coming in to spend money, and through our menu and beverage innovation, we've given them a lot more opportunities and a very creative way to add to their check with innovative appetizer with the small bites and the seasonal beers that we've been really driving that are becoming increasingly popular over time. We've also been working the barbells of our menu strategy to work not only on small bites and snacks, appetizer section, which are priced at $2.95 to $4.95 and represent a very easy add on to a check, but we've also been working the other end of the barbell in our menu. We've been really working on more center-of-the-plate protein dishes, beef, poultry and seafood, every move that we've made up their diet with an entrée priced in, say, $11 to $13 range, has been extremely well-received by our guests. And so our guests are actually trading up because we're giving them a higher quality, but a more innovative dish to purchase than perhaps they could get at one of the mass market casual dining chains. So I think it's really been due to things that we've done with the menu that have really driven guest incidence rates and maybe has helped us to avoid some of the issues that some of our competitors have suffered with respect to check management.
OP
Operator
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Brad Ludington with KeyBanc Capital Market.
BL
Brad Ludington
Analyst · Brad Ludington with KeyBanc Capital Market
I just had a couple of quick questions on, first, I'll talk about moving to East Coast markets in 2013. On the last call, Jerry, I think you said that you might consider a partnership to enter some of those markets. Is that how we should expect that to be put together in 2013?
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Brad Ludington with KeyBanc Capital Market
Not necessarily. We're certainly willing to consider joint venture opportunities if they come to our attention with well-established, proven casual dining restaurant operators that have great real estate and maybe have good operational infrastructures and solid management talent, but maybe don't have the right concept at that time. So we're certainly willing to consider those opportunities. There's nothing that's currently being considered. We do expect to make an entry though on the East Coast markets, probably toward the end of this year, early next year. We're probably going to pick the Middle Atlantic states, particularly the Washington D.C., Northern Virginia area as an initial entry point to begin to build out the BJ's Restaurants there. And then again if we get an opportunity to joint venture something further north and east in America, then we'd be certainly happy to put that consideration. Greg Lynds, would you like to add some color to that?
GL
Gregory Lynds
Analyst · Brad Ludington with KeyBanc Capital Market
We have been working in that market now for probably 18 to 24 months, that we've got a good handle on site availability and timing, and I think we're in good shape to enter the East Coast certainly late this year. But by 2013, we'll be in good shape.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Brad Ludington with KeyBanc Capital Market
Our thinking is, is that if we do it on our own with respect to organic development starting in the Virginia, Maryland, D.C. area where in our past lives, with other restaurant concepts, that all of us had worked at, at our company, the sales volumes have been very, very lucrative and restaurants have been very, very well up there. There's enough capacity there to establish a very strong base of BJ's Restaurants. And then it just gives us the ability to just move north into Pennsylvania and New Jersey, where again, based on our past experience, high-quality casual dining restaurants work extraordinary well if they have high-quality and good differentiation.
BL
Brad Ludington
Analyst · Brad Ludington with KeyBanc Capital Market
Okay. And then just a follow-up maybe for Greg. On your development commentary, you talked about going to a consultant and getting a conservative estimate of 425 potential units. Was that someone like [indiscernible] in staying conservative is that implies that there's probably a larger base case and kind of larger stretch goal out there as well?
GL
Gregory Lynds
Analyst · Brad Ludington with KeyBanc Capital Market
Well, without disclosing kind of too much confidential proprietary information, I could tell you that like many of these studies, they start out with the fundamental, who is your customer? Or do they live? How far they drive to BJ's? What's the trade area for each restaurant? And once that core of customer in trade area's identified, the computer models, say, what similar customers in trade areas across United States with BJ's views about them, and how do you optimize that in terms of what's the best MFA [ph] to go to and then what's the total build out. So our team, along with these consultants, at least 425 restaurants.
OP
Operator
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Brian Bittner with Oppenheimer & Co.
BB
Brian Bittner
Analyst · Brian Bittner with Oppenheimer & Co
I got 2 questions, if I may. So the first is, you talked about these sales builders in 2012, and you talked specifically about how the initial tests of loyalty program are driving better-than-expected incremental guest incidence and guests spending per visit. And so I guess to the extent that you can, can you try and quantify these impacts a little bit? Or if not, maybe just give a bit more color on what dynamics of this year rewards program is really driving these kind of better-than-expected results?
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Brian Bittner with Oppenheimer & Co
Well, that's a great question. And since all of our competitors are listening into our call today and they would absolutely love to know exactly what we're doing and what breakeven cost hurdles are and our expected results are, I don't think we really want to get into all of those details. But I think we can say that our loyalty program, which is actually out there and testing a couple of market, so it's really no secret, and we have a number of loyalty program participants. So how it functions is really no secret. But ours is more of an experiential engagement-driven loyalty program than some of the others, where -- I'm in Starbucks loyalty program, and I do go every day and every 15 cups of coffee I buy, I get a little thing in the mail that says I get a free cup of coffee with my gold card. Well, that's not exactly what we're doing here at BJ's. It's very, very different. It's based on accumulating points, and then these points can be redeemed, and to some extent for products that we would sell. But it's more intended for experiential rewards where they can bid on wonderful trips and things that we would offer internally that would be very special other than just additional food offerings, if you will. But the real key to our loyalty program is once our participants tell us as much as they care to tell us about themselves, it'll be stored in a database and this is all integrated with our front desk table management system and our POS system, so that when they check in with their handheld device or with a card in our restaurants and they get that scanned and a little chip that prints out to our…
BB
Brian Bittner
Analyst · Brian Bittner with Oppenheimer & Co
It's extremely interesting and intriguing. The second question is -- you talked about the ability to increase capacity at some of your restaurants by constructing a patio. Just wondering what type of cash investment is needed for this? And what sort of sales bump could this provide at the individual store level?
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Brian Bittner with Oppenheimer & Co
Well we have 3 types of patios. We have a fair weather patio, which we just go ahead and we get the permits and the ability to do so in our lease. So we've got the concrete out there. We'll put up a railing, and we'll put out the tables and seat them when the weather is there and when the weather isn't there, then we take the seats up or we close it down. To that's type number one. That is a pretty relatively low investment cost for just the -- for just furniture and the umbrellas. Then we have another version of the patio where we do have a roof on it, but it's not fully enclosed. And then we have a third version where you have a completely enclosed patio that has doors that can either open or close, again, depending on the weather. And I think that the cost of those patios ranges anywhere from $50,000 on the low side to maybe $150,000 on the high side. You get $50,000, $100,000 and $150,000, give or take a few grand in there. And so we have 10 additions that we're going to be working on this year. I can't remember exactly how the mix of the 3 types is going to fall out. But it does give us the ability to drive increased productivity, particularly when the weather is good.
OP
Operator
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Nicole Miller with Piper Jaffray.
NR
Nicole Regan
Analyst · Nicole Miller with Piper Jaffray
Just hoping to get an update on initiatives around to-go, online and catering, please.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Nicole Miller with Piper Jaffray
I'm going to let Wayne Jones comment on the catering since he's right in the middle of it.
WJ
Wayne Jones
Analyst · Nicole Miller with Piper Jaffray
Nicole, we're currently working our catering menu to really evolve our offerings that -- well, most of us meet with the guest to provide a consistent structure in which to provide the offerings, whether it'd be on-premise or off-premise. We've been working a potential delivery set up in work, a party-type of an event for a guest. So we anticipate that being rolled out here probably towards the end of the second quarter, and we have it in test currently. And so far it's been very well-received and it's to their clarifying. Our guests have enjoyed quite a bit the selections that have been provided.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Nicole Miller with Piper Jaffray
And in terms of to-go and online, we rolled out online ordering probably 3 years ago or so. And our to-go, we rolled out our curbside cashiering program probably 3 or 4 years ago. Our overall off-premise sales, I think, have kind of stabilized at 5.5% to 6% of sales. We know that they can be better. We're taking another look at our online ordering process the and current provider that we use, where we believe we can be more productive and more accurate with that whole system, so we have a complete program underway to revise that. The other thing that we're going to be testing very shortly is a call center approach to take out orders, where the takeout orders will be technologically routed to a call center where we can get those automatically then interfaced into our POS systems in our restaurants, much like the pizza guys do for their to-go orders. But we believe that we can capture more orders and capture their accuracy a little bit better than letting the phone rings in our restaurants, although we think we do a pretty good job of capturing the takeout orders that get called in. And I'm sure that we've missed some, because we put guest on hold or we can't service them in a manner that they'd like to be serviced. So we have the test underway and depending on the results of that test, we'll see where we get with it.
OP
Operator
Operator
And we have a question from the line of Conrad Lyon with B. Riley & Co.
CL
Conrad Lyon
Analyst · Conrad Lyon with B. Riley & Co
I'm intrigued about the comment about TV. And I just wanted to see if you could speak to what market you want to test that in.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Conrad Lyon with B. Riley & Co
Conrad, we're still making our final decision as to where we're going to go on that. We are kind of down to 2 markets, one is a California market and one is a non-California market. So we'll make our decision here because we have to get the media bought and then we'll let you know here on our next conference call because by then, the media will likely have begun.
CL
Conrad Lyon
Analyst · Conrad Lyon with B. Riley & Co
And hopefully I will see that here.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Conrad Lyon with B. Riley & Co
I don't think you're going to see it in Los Angeles.
CL
Conrad Lyon
Analyst · Conrad Lyon with B. Riley & Co
Yes, that's what I thought. Okay. Question regarding growth. What -- is there an absolute number of units you feel comfortable opening with your current expectations of efficiency and so forth? Or is it just a belief that you can constantly incubate and grow talented managers?
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Conrad Lyon with B. Riley & Co
The pace of our development program has always been dependent on our key pipelines for growth, how strong they are, how prime they are. It's a function of capital, real estate availability, management talent, the availability to leverage our infrastructure and so forth. And I think that right now, we're running at the optimal pace of expansion that really maximizes the availability of all of those necessary growth pipelines. But capital clearly has not been an issue for us, the availability of AAA real estate clearly is a little bit tougher to get these days because of the fact that there are no new major retail projects under development in America today as a result of the recession. So that's a constraint. That while we have certainly plenty of high-quality sites to take care of our projected double-digit operating week growth for the next couple of years, I think we're going to probably have to see some new retail project development begun -- begin to manifest itself before, I think, we could consider a dramatically increase at the rate of our planned expansion. But we've said many, many times the most critical factor that governs our restaurant expansion is the availability of qualified seasoned restaurant management talent. And that is always a challenge for us, particularly in our kitchens. We're running at the right pace that, I think, optimizes that pipeline. If we, again, are feeling better about the overall availability and the seasoning of that talent that, that would certainly play a factor into our decision to increase the pace of our expansion. But I think for the next couple of years, we're going to stick with our low double-digit rate of operating week growth. And the important thing to think about -- and I can't underscore this more, and that is our growth this high-quality growth, not just growth for the sake of growth. The last thing that our investors want to see, 3 years from now, is a press release coming out and saying, "Well, we grew at a 20% level, but we ran our train right off the tracks. We took on too much new market risk. We hired too many under qualified restaurant managers. We took restaurant locations that were at main and second instead of main and main. But now our overall average economics have turned south and we might have to close some of these or put impairment charges on them." We don't want to be in that position. And so we're going to stick with our very steady predictable, leverageable rate of growth.
CL
Conrad Lyon
Analyst · Conrad Lyon with B. Riley & Co
Got you. One last question. I think it might have been Greg Lynds, and in fact, I don't want to misstate it here. But I think you -- there was talk about going into some reinvigorated big-box centers. And I'm curious if that's perceived as being more challenging or is there opportunity to get, say, more favorable rents? But I just want to make sure I understand that properly.
GL
Gregory Lynds
Analyst · Conrad Lyon with B. Riley & Co
Yes. I don't think I commented on that today, but just overall in terms of state of the industry today, with no new development, you are seeing landlords spending a lot of time on figuring out how to reinvigorate those centers, what to do with the big boxes and where restaurants will fit in. Restaurants drive a lot of traffic and they're well-liked by the developers because they bring percentage rent from other tenants. So we are seeing a lot of that. We're pretty -- we're well-suited and well-positioned to capitalize on it.
OP
Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from the line of Sharon Zackfia with William Blair & Company.
SZ
Sharon Zackfia
Analyst · Sharon Zackfia with William Blair & Company
I think you've done a very comprehensive conference call, I just had really one question, which as I look forward, Greg, on your guidance, that I think indicated operating and occupancy expenses back in the low-21% range this year, and I'm just curious as to what would cause that to go up again, as a percent of sales, if there's some new initiatives there. It sounded like marketing would be similar as a percent of sales year-over-year.
GL
Gregory Levin
Analyst · Sharon Zackfia with William Blair & Company
Yes. I think that one’s going to come due to where frankly, you guys put through your weekly sales average in your comps versus where I think about it from our internal forecasting. The other side of it is I think in -- from the beginning of the year as well, thinking about a little bit more with marketing being a little bit heavier in terms of first half at the TV, that could have drive that up a little bit. And then it starts to leverage on the weekly sales average from that perspective.
SZ
Sharon Zackfia
Analyst · Sharon Zackfia with William Blair & Company
In the first half of the year, as a year ago comparisons similar to the 1.2% for the full year for '11, do you have like 20-basis point hit from marketing in the first half?
GL
Gregory Levin
Analyst · Sharon Zackfia with William Blair & Company
It was kind of heavier in the second half of '11 for marketing. Actually, it's a flat fourth quarter.
OP
Operator
Operator
And our last question comes from the line of Nick Setyan with Wedbush Securities.
NS
Nick Setyan
Analyst · Wedbush Securities
It sounds like you plan to enter a couple of new states this year. I was hoping you tell us, in which quarter the Kansas and New Mexico openings are expected.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Wedbush Securities
Greg?
GL
Gregory Lynds
Analyst · Wedbush Securities
Yes. Kansas is the second -- or third quarter, and Albuquerque is third or fourth quarter.
NS
Nick Setyan
Analyst · Wedbush Securities
Got it. And then you mentioned that past sales have stabilized around 5.5%. Can you remind us what the average check of a catering transaction is now, and how overall off-premise have trended as a percent of sales over the last few years? And what the near-term and longer-term goals on off-premise are?
GL
Gregory Levin
Analyst · Wedbush Securities
So I think -- I don't have all the trends, Nick, from the past. So I'm just looking at kind of our channel here over the last couple of years. These are the kind of in the upper 3s to the 4% range and then they've been slowly moving over the last couple of years in that 5% to 5.5%. I believe it was in -- I wouldn't hold me to this, but I believe it was 2008 when we rolled out an entire new take-out program, new packaging, marketing around, and et cetera, from that standpoint. We saw take-out -- frankly, off-premise sales really dropped in the heart of the recession because a lot of that had lunch time business that you deal. And since that, it slowly recovers. That hasn't recovered as much as I would say the dine-in and the dinner has, in that regard. And we think about it as an initiative for this year. It's really around that online ordering. We put that in place a few years back. And frankly, we just don't do it as good as it should be done. I think if you go on and you look at the way the probably, the pizza guys do it, I know we're not a pizza concept in that regard, they have a much better interface for the consumers using both better applications for smartphones, as well as interface on the computer and that's something that our -- actually our IT team is working on this year to put better interface on it to help drive that. And once that's trades are on, I'm sure you'll see more marketing behind it from us.
GD
Gerald Deitchle
Analyst · Wedbush Securities
Well, thank you, and thanks, everybody for being on our call today. We'll be at our offices here in California, working as late as usual. So if you have any further questions, please give us a call. Thank you.
OP
Operator
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our call for today. Thank you very much for your participation. You may now disconnect.